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couple weeks ago i think fans were about to jump him in the parking lot and hide his body, hoping george karl would bless the team and come save them in a heroic coaching return.

ever since getting absolutely destroyed by portland the team's played pretty darn good basketball, i think. (except one historically bad quarter @ new york)

shortened rotation to something reasonable.
offensive tempo's increased.
less dump it into the post and let faried/mozgov fumble it away.
for the most part the halfcourt offense looks cohesive, particularly when lawsons leading it. guys are getting open shots regularly, and hitting them now.
defense has stepped it up. no longer rely on the 'switch everything and just play basketball' of the karl era.

plus gallo/mcgee either aren't playing or aren't their usual selves yet.

still room for improvement....and i'm certainly not saying .500 ball is where this team should be. but things are looking up, and we've seen pretty dramatic positive change in play as compared to the preseason/first two weeks.

issues....

nate absolutely kills all/any offensive rhythm when he's in.....and he probably either needs to be sat down or traded, cause i doubt he's changing his style of play at this point in his career.

i think we're shooting too many 3's (particularly from darrell arthur) and not attacking enough....and that won't be good when we meet teams that shoot significantly better than us.

faried situation isn't ideal. needs to get back to being more energy/opportunistic offensive player and focusing on defense. i bet a lot of it's in his head with that big contract though.....and most semi-star players go through the same issues before finding their games and either blossoming everywhere or perfecting their niche.

overall i like the direction things are headed.

Still things that irk me. Don't think we'll be going far into the playoffs (IF we do make it), so the most of this season should be made of by doing what Shaw does well, which is develop players. DNPs for Harris and Nurkic. Took Foye's injury until Harris finally gets to play, and Foye is back in 2 weeks anyway. I have no idea what Hickson did to beat Nurkic in minutes. Also Shaw said that Hickson will only play the 4 this season, and the first thing he does when he can use him is play him as the backup 5.

I have no idea what Hickson did to beat Nurkic in minutes.

not foul someone on every other possession?

.

let's be real too. not playing young guys is a critique that every single fan has of his teams coach. they do it because with very few exceptions they're trying to win games. which allows them to keep their jobs, to keep fans showing up to games, which keeps management happy. and for the most part vets, even mediocre ones, know the nba game more and make fewer mistakes.....which is really what it takes to win. specifically limiting turnovers, not committing stupid fouls, and taking smart shots within the offense.

if shaw and the staff see harris/nurkic every day in practice and think those two will give them a better opportunity to win as compared to foye/hickson, then they're going to play them. if management is okay with losing games to develop what we have....then they should be the ones critiqued because they haven't traded hickson/foye/nate for picks yet.

I'm calling it now, if we're able to sneak into the playoffs, Shaw becomes a legitimate COY candidate. The media will eat up the turnaround story after that disastrous start.

My favorite part is the defense. Of our eight wins, seven of them have come while holding the opponent to 100 points or less. I'm no advanced stats guru, but that must mean we're doing something right on that end of the floor for once.

So George Karl breaks multiple franchise records for win streaks, overall record, and road records yet you don't want to give him credit, and now we are supposed to give Shaw credit for a handful of games? really?

This board is ridiculous and Josh mostly lost me as a fan with his shoddy leadership. We had the coach of the year, the gm of the year, the third youngest roster in the league, and had won a franchise record for wins. How on earth can any of you really claim that we are closer to a championship now then we were then? Everyone in the league can see the Nuggets don't have an ownership group that wants to compete. They didn't pay George Karl, they didn't really try to keep Ujiri, and players around the league have been given notice that the nuggets don't have the commitment to win a championship, and when it starts at the ownership level, there is no chance for change.

So No, I don't give shaw credit. Tell me when he wins his first playoff series.

Shaw sucks

Corona I think you make valid points and I also agree that I like where this is headed.

That 57 win team everyone talks about...They were 8-8 at the end of November and 12-12 mid-december. All these casual Nuggets fans coming in here talking about how Geroge Karl was great and how this is the same roster that we had two years ago frankly don't pay attention to Nuggets basketball. That team and GK were also embarassed by Golden State, people always leave that out.

It's not fair to say the ownership group doesn't want to compete. This ain't Philly, The Nuggets have good baseketball players, they don't fit perfectly together but they are a competitive, expensive bunch.

I've been most impressed recently with our ability to execute in the half court and finish out close games. That was not a strong suit of this team in the past. Shaw is playing with an over-stacked, flawed deck and seems to have figured out how to make the most of it. RRFB also mentioned the defense which has also been a bright spot.

.500 ain't great but it ain't bad, lets see if we can get into the 7-8 seed by the end of the month.

can shaw get credit?....naw

being 8-8, i would say that the 8 losses left more of an impression than the 8 wins.

RRFB wrote:I'm calling it now, if we're able to sneak into the playoffs, Shaw becomes a legitimate COY candidate. The media will eat up the turnaround story after that disastrous start.

My favorite part is the defense. Of our eight wins, seven of them have come while holding the opponent to 100 points or less. I'm no advanced stats guru, but that must mean we're doing something right on that end of the floor for once.

I know that marijuana is legal is Colorado, but do you honestly think that Shaw will be a legitimate COY candidate by sneaking into the playoffs? You don't think that maybe Toronto leading the east, or Golden State or Portland would be considered better suited for that award? This reminds me of the early 90's when we had to go on a win streak to approach 500 and hope that we sneak into the playoffs. In order for Shaw to be a COY candidate the Nuggets will have to get home court advantage.

Yes, I would rather go the playoffs every year and hope for lightning in a bottle than missing the playoffs every year.

Powder Blue wrote:That 57 win team everyone talks about...They were 8-8 at the end of November and 12-12 mid-december. All these casual Nuggets fans coming in here talking about how Geroge Karl was great and how this is the same roster that we had two years ago frankly don't pay attention to Nuggets basketball. That team and GK were also embarassed by Golden State, people always leave that out.

It's not fair to say the ownership group doesn't want to compete. This ain't Philly, The Nuggets have good baseketball players, they don't fit perfectly together but they are a competitive, expensive bunch.

it's a bit egotistical for you to say that I am a casual fan, and that you know better than everyone else. If I remember correctly, we also had a horrendous road trip near the beginning of the season, It was talked about repeatedly that the schedule was a nightmare in the beginning of the season. Are you saying that this team has the potential to win 57 games? Do you think the circumstances are similar at all? Because I don't think this team will come close to 57 wins. Whose the casual fan now?

To be honest, I would rather have the philly ownership group, they may be tanking this year, but that's because they want to win long term. The Nuggets ownership group is more like the Donald Sterling Clippers of the 80's and 90's. If you can't commit to a team that is the third youngest roster in the league and had 57 wins, then when are you going to commit?

shaw deserved to be bashed in the first 7 or so because he wasn't being a team coach, rather a player coach. from his own words, he played the best players regardless of who got paid what or who's name was on which billboard. ok, in theory that sounds a great way of motivating the players to step it up, but the reality is that there's a reason why some get paid what they get paid and some play what they play.

regardless of a guy like gee, who i believe to be a great pickup, or nurkic or harris who will have their eventual spotlights, guys like lawson, gallo, faried, afflalo, and wilson are at the epicenter of what will determine this team's success. it won't be the rooks or the guy who's being paid 900k a year, that's the reality. it's his job to get those guys in line before turning his attention in pleasing the remainder of the bench.

shaw doing his whole thing early in the season playing 13 deep surely backfired on him and i'm sure to some extent he regrets it, or he might not, i'm sure it's an ongoing learning process for him. anyway we're winning and it's all that matters. don't think that last 6 wins out of 7 games is a fluke, but i suppose we'll just have to see.

scottcarman wrote:

RRFB wrote:I'm calling it now, if we're able to sneak into the playoffs, Shaw becomes a legitimate COY candidate. The media will eat up the turnaround story after that disastrous start.

My favorite part is the defense. Of our eight wins, seven of them have come while holding the opponent to 100 points or less. I'm no advanced stats guru, but that must mean we're doing something right on that end of the floor for once.

I know that marijuana is legal is Colorado, but do you honestly think that Shaw will be a legitimate COY candidate by sneaking into the playoffs? You don't think that maybe Toronto leading the east, or Golden State or Portland would be considered better suited for that award? This reminds me of the early 90's when we had to go on a win streak to approach 500 and hope that we sneak into the playoffs. In order for Shaw to be a COY candidate the Nuggets will have to get home court advantage.

Yes, I would rather go the playoffs every year and hope for lightning in a bottle than missing the playoffs every year.

i agree with RRFB. we're not even a quarter of the games through and if shaw builds on the wins, then there's no reason why he shouldn't be considered a COY candidate. we're too far out and there are too many variables to make any valid prediction of what will and what won't happen.

scottcarman wrote:

Powder Blue wrote:That 57 win team everyone talks about...They were 8-8 at the end of November and 12-12 mid-december. All these casual Nuggets fans coming in here talking about how Geroge Karl was great and how this is the same roster that we had two years ago frankly don't pay attention to Nuggets basketball. That team and GK were also embarassed by Golden State, people always leave that out.

It's not fair to say the ownership group doesn't want to compete. This ain't Philly, The Nuggets have good baseketball players, they don't fit perfectly together but they are a competitive, expensive bunch.

it's a bit egotistical for you to say that I am a casual fan, and that you know better than everyone else. If I remember correctly, we also had a horrendous road trip near the beginning of the season, It was talked about repeatedly that the schedule was a nightmare in the beginning of the season. Are you saying that this team has the potential to win 57 games? Do you think the circumstances are similar at all? Because I don't think this team will come close to 57 wins. Whose the casual fan now?

To be honest, I would rather have the philly ownership group, they may be tanking this year, but that's because they want to win long term. The Nuggets ownership group is more like the Donald Sterling Clippers of the 80's and 90's. If you can't commit to a team that is the third youngest roster in the league and had 57 wins, then when are you going to commit?

I never said I know better than everyone else. I think that the casual fan thinks this is the same team that won 57 games, it's not. Iggy and Miller were great facilitators that are no longer here. That team had more talent than this one as it's currently constructed.

In 2012 the excuse was 17 of the first 23 on the road, this year it was a bunch of guys coming off injury. In both cases there is an excuse, one isn't better than the other. 8-8 is 8-8 bro.

Then you praise philly owners but hate on ours, at least ours aren't lying and robbing fans night after night. Philly has been "tanking and rebuilding" for years, what they are doing is insulting to their fanbase and the league. Breeding a culture of losing over multiple seasons is not what I wish for Denver.

The fact that you can't acknowledge any of the great offense and defense the Nuggets have been displaying the last 10 games is unfortunate. GK style ball failed immediately 90% of the time in the playoffs, I'm glad the Nuggets are trying something different and the players are buying into it.

Powder Blue wrote:
The fact that you can't acknowledge any of the great offense and defense the Nuggets have been displaying the last 10 games is unfortunate. GK style ball failed immediately 90% of the time in the playoffs, I'm glad the Nuggets are trying something different and the players are buying into it.

You have the biggest double standard I have ever seen. Can you acknowledge that George Karl brought us to the western conference finals? Can you acknowledge that he set the franchise record for wins? Can you acknowledge that he was voted the very best coach in the entire league when he was fired? Can you acknowledge that he may very well retire as the winningest coach in nba history and that could have been as a Denver Nugget? The nuggets organization basically took a dump on a first ballot hall of fame coach. If you don't think that is not recognized around the league, then you are wrong. Especially when our inexperienced GM is also proposing trades to other teams that aren't even possible.

This organization went from being one of the better run teams in the league (Warkentien GM of year, Ujiri GM of year, Karl coach of year, one of longest consecutive playoff streaks), to one of the jokes of the league.

And if you think that Shaw will get consideration for COY by 'sneaking' into the playoffs then you are crazy.

So based on your standards, I will give Shaw credit when he has won coach of the year, beaten the franchise record for wins, and advances us to the western conference finals.

scottcarman wrote:Can you acknowledge that he was voted the very best coach in the entire league when he was fired?

Wait you don't actually believe the COY award goes to the best coach in the league, do you? Then I'm guessing you also think Marcus Camby was the best defensive player in the league the year he won DPOY. If those awards truly went to the best of that year, only one man would have won COY in the last decade. And that's exactly the reason why Shaw WILL be considered a candidate if the Nuggets make the playoffs this year.

scottcarman wrote:

Powder Blue wrote:
The fact that you can't acknowledge any of the great offense and defense the Nuggets have been displaying the last 10 games is unfortunate. GK style ball failed immediately 90% of the time in the playoffs, I'm glad the Nuggets are trying something different and the players are buying into it.

You have the biggest double standard I have ever seen. Can you acknowledge that George Karl brought us to the western conference finals? Can you acknowledge that he set the franchise record for wins? Can you acknowledge that he was voted the very best coach in the entire league when he was fired? Can you acknowledge that he may very well retire as the winningest coach in nba history and that could have been as a Denver Nugget? The nuggets organization basically took a dump on a first ballot hall of fame coach. If you don't think that is not recognized around the league, then you are wrong. Especially when our inexperienced GM is also proposing trades to other teams that aren't even possible.

This organization went from being one of the better run teams in the league (Warkentien GM of year, Ujiri GM of year, Karl coach of year, one of longest consecutive playoff streaks), to one of the jokes of the league.

And if you think that Shaw will get consideration for COY by 'sneaking' into the playoffs then you are crazy.

So based on your standards, I will give Shaw credit when he has won coach of the year, beaten the franchise record for wins, and advances us to the western conference finals.

When did I ever say anything about COY?

Can you acknowledge no one hired GK after we fired him?

Yes, ONE year, FIVE years ago GK took a team with two future HOF players to the WCF...and then over played Anthony Carter and lost a winnable series to LA. That was the best roster the Pepsi Center has seen and it was traded away during the Ujiri era, not the current one. What about the other EIGHT first round losses? He gets a pass for those?

I give credit to GK for his tenure in Denver but his style of basketball did not lead to playoff success and rather than pay top dollar for more first round exits Josh went in another direction.

Since you love GK so much you are welcome to follow his current team....but last I checked he's still bashing our old players on ESPN. He had a good run but the fact that he's still out of a job leads me to believe no other teams were impressed with his time in Denver either.

That coach and those players are long gone. That era is over. This one got off to an injured, rocky start but it's coming around and I'm optimistic to see where it goes...

Powder Blue wrote:Corona I think you make valid points and I also agree that I like where this is headed.

That 57 win team everyone talks about...They were 8-8 at the end of November and 12-12 mid-december. All these casual Nuggets fans coming in here talking about how Geroge Karl was great and how this is the same roster that we had two years ago frankly don't pay attention to Nuggets basketball. That team and GK were also embarassed by Golden State, people always leave that out.

So if people do not agree with you they are a casual fan? Also you are right the Nuggets lost to the Warriors, but embarrassed? The Warriors were a whole 25 points better in 6 total games than the Nuggets, I would not say that was embarrassed. Especially when you consider the Nuggets were always a 500 team without Gallo from the time of the trade through Karl being fired. Under Shaw the Nuggets have only won 45% of their games, and were an embarrassment last year, and the 1st 8 games of this season.

Powder Blue wrote:It's not fair to say the ownership group doesn't want to compete. This ain't Philly, The Nuggets have good baseketball players, they don't fit perfectly together but they are a competitive, expensive bunch.

Competitive? They are 1 game over 500 this year, and won 36 games last year, that is not competitive. Also the Nuggets and Avs have a long history of not paying front office personnel, being pretty cheap with coaches, and doing everything they could to avoid the luxury tax. Do you not remember trades like Steven Hunter and a 1st for a protected 2nd rounder? Marcus Camby for a protected 2nd rounder? What about Chucky Atkins and a 1st for an expiring contract on a 6th big?

Powder Blue wrote:I've been most impressed recently with our ability to execute in the half court and finish out close games. That was not a strong suit of this team in the past. Shaw is playing with an over-stacked, flawed deck and seems to have figured out how to make the most of it. RRFB also mentioned the defense which has also been a bright spot.

.500 ain't great but it ain't bad, lets see if we can get into the 7-8 seed by the end of the month.

.500 isn't bad? Yet Karl was a terrible coach? The entire time Karl was here the Nuggets were not a below .500 team by the end of the season, Shaw is 1 game over 500 now, but last year was not good enough to be anywhere near .500 had Andre Miller (who you say was a key player under Karl) revolted last year, Shaw had to cancel practice and have meetings with players 1 day all day last year, and this team was a mess until injuries forced Shaw to cut his rotation and allow the players to play their games.

Also defense is a bright spot? They are ranked 25th in defensive efficiency, they are 19th in opponent field goal percentage, and they give up the most free throws in the league. Not a single one of those say they are even average in defense.

Powder Blue wrote:

scottcarman wrote:

Powder Blue wrote:
The fact that you can't acknowledge any of the great offense and defense the Nuggets have been displaying the last 10 games is unfortunate. GK style ball failed immediately 90% of the time in the playoffs, I'm glad the Nuggets are trying something different and the players are buying into it.

You have the biggest double standard I have ever seen. Can you acknowledge that George Karl brought us to the western conference finals? Can you acknowledge that he set the franchise record for wins? Can you acknowledge that he was voted the very best coach in the entire league when he was fired? Can you acknowledge that he may very well retire as the winningest coach in nba history and that could have been as a Denver Nugget? The nuggets organization basically took a dump on a first ballot hall of fame coach. If you don't think that is not recognized around the league, then you are wrong. Especially when our inexperienced GM is also proposing trades to other teams that aren't even possible.

This organization went from being one of the better run teams in the league (Warkentien GM of year, Ujiri GM of year, Karl coach of year, one of longest consecutive playoff streaks), to one of the jokes of the league.

And if you think that Shaw will get consideration for COY by 'sneaking' into the playoffs then you are crazy.

So based on your standards, I will give Shaw credit when he has won coach of the year, beaten the franchise record for wins, and advances us to the western conference finals.

When did I ever say anything about COY?

Can you acknowledge no one hired GK after we fired him?

Can you acknowledge that in 12 interviews nobody hired Shaw? Also can you say for a fact that Karl did not receive any offers? So if you believe that Shaw is great, than why did 12 front offices pass on him?

Powder Blue wrote:Yes, ONE year, FIVE years ago GK took a team with two future HOF players to the WCF...and then over played Anthony Carter and lost a winnable series to LA. That was the best roster the Pepsi Center has seen and it was traded away during the Ujiri era, not the current one. What about the other EIGHT first round losses? He gets a pass for those?

That series was bad, but maybe you missed the fact that the Nuggets were in the Western Conference finals, that Kmart and Andersen were both badly needing knee surgery and were limited in play? Also that roster was traded away due and let go due to one of your future hall of famers deciding he would rather be in a large market and the center or attention as opposed to winning games.

Also Karl had 7 1st round exits, the 8th one was when Karl was out battling cancer, but have you looked at who was healthy and playing for some of those rosters? Under Shaw they would have gotten a top 5 pick.

Powder Blue wrote:I give credit to GK for his tenure in Denver but his style of basketball did not lead to playoff success and rather than pay top dollar for more first round exits Josh went in another direction.

A different direction was fine, and I was always very clear that I did not love Karl, but to say that you Shaw is great because you did not like Karl is possibly the worst argument I have ever heard.

Powder Blue wrote:Since you love GK so much you are welcome to follow his current team....but last I checked he's still bashing our old players on ESPN. He had a good run but the fact that he's still out of a job leads me to believe no other teams were impressed with his time in Denver either.

That coach and those players are long gone. That era is over. This one got off to an injured, rocky start but it's coming around and I'm optimistic to see where it goes...

So other teams were not impressed with Karl's run, what does that mean for Shaw? Last year the team underachieved, this year they are struggling, and 12 teams passed up on hiring him thinking he did not have the ability to even coach. So does that mean the front offices are smart because they may agree with you on Karl, or dumb because they disagree with you on Shaw?

While Shaw is improving what I see is a below average coach that is being bailed out by Lawson, Chandler, Mozgov, and Gallo playing much closer to their capabilities.

Shaw is still making some dumb mistakes as a head coach. But he does seem to be improving. Too early to call with Shaw still, I say give him the year to see what he can do the goal should be playoffs though. It is unfair to compare Karl and all his years as a head coach to Shaw's first season and a few games into this one. But I do believe our slow start was partially on Shaw partially on players coming back from injury. You can't not play your starting unit together in preseason for good minutes and then expect them to play great during the regular season out the gate, its not going to happen, they have to get into rhythm. Why he didn't run our starting Five 30 minutes for several of those preseason games I don't know and why he ran 13-14 players a game for those first few games I wont understand either.