Where do we go now

ptran · Post #1 » by **ptran** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 9:06 pm

Hey just ran across this Blog and it got me thinking...where do the Nuggets go now?

Shaw's system clearly didn't work with this roster, but the team is so young and has so much potential too. Imagine a line up of Green, Harris, Barton, Faried, and Nurkic in 2 years. The up and down pace of this team would be amazing and Nurkic would provide stability inside...

I wish Shaw had worked out cause I was a proponent of him coming to the team, but they've completely fallen apart and nobody likes him. The guy seems like he's fit to be an assistant forever, which isn't necessarily bad. But they need a little lovin' and Hunt can provide it temporarily. But what's next?

https://gritandgrind.wordpress.com/2015 ... e-nuggets/

ptran · Post #2 » by **ptran** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 9:08 pm

PS. Can we get rid of all the old timers on the team taking up mins from the young guys. Shout out to Hickson, Arthur, Foye, and even Lawson. Tired of these "proven veterans" that delay young players' development.

skywalker33 · Post #3 » by **skywalker33** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 10:20 pm

Young doesn't always mean better, son !! That lineup you suggested would be really small....

JerrySloan · Post #4 » by **JerrySloan** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 12:09 am

PS. Can we get rid of all the old timers on the team taking up mins from the young guys. Shout out to Hickson, Arthur, Foye, and even Lawson. Tired of these "proven veterans" that delay young players' development.

Sorry but Gallo, Faried and Chandler and certainly Foye and Nelson are as much or more "old timers" than the above quartet.

So, are you sure that you want to start anew with Harris, Nurkic, Lauvergne, Barton(?) and, oh yeah, Green who was gotten by this "braintrust" for Rudy Gobert?

Post #5 » by **The Rebel** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 12:28 am

Really? You want to field a team of all rookies? yep that will win games, and develop the players, look at the wonders that is doing for the 76ers.

Young players should have to earn their minutes, but they need a coach willing to allow them to do that, Shaw did not seem that guy only going to Nurkic when he had no other choice. Overall I am fine with Gallo, Lawson, Faried, and Chandler all staying and playing minutes, with the young guys they should have a decent start to a good team, especially if Joffrey and Nurkic develop and they bring Jokic over and he is half as good as the front office seems to think. Add a top 10 pick and I am fine with that roster.

AS for coach, I would like to see what Hunt can do with the team, Shaw was a terrible fit and a bad coach, but that should not reflect on Hunt, and he should get a fair chance to audition for the job through the end of the season.

skywalker33 · Post #6 » by **skywalker33** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 2:01 am

Well, that is one of the concerns I have with our next HC, we have quite a few young players and will have a few more coming our way. I know most coaches want to win thus they sit rookies and play the vets. I definitely see that in D'Angelo so can't say I'm a huge fan of that. Certainly not saying I want to sacrifice wins for player development, but there has to be some type of balance there, especially with Nurkic, Harris, Lauvergne, Green, Jokic and 5 future 1st round draft choices over the next three years.

ptran · Post #7 » by **ptran** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 4:45 am

I totally see where you guys are coming from but are these the kind of vets that we want young guys to learn from? I could see it coming from guys maybe like Chandler or Gallo (Afflalo before being traded) where you can see the passion and the smarts behind the play. But I really don't see the value in guys that are glorified stats guys that seem to only look out for themselves (Hickson and Foye particularly).

That being said, I was a bit rash. Nelson I think is a very good leader, plays the game right, and has gone deep in the playoffs before. Faried, as much as he's getting paid, is not someone I want on my team. He's got that on court intensity which is great, but he also comes off very entitled. I think Team USA was the worst thing that could have happened to him because his ego just went through the roof.

Ty is a solid player, but like I said, not a natural born leader. Also the DUI that he got last month really doesn't sit well for me. He's not exactly a mode that I would want young players to work off. I think the young guys on the team have a lot of potential but it really relies on the coaching staff and vets to show them the ropes (common argument you hear from old players).

You guys are right though, the coaching position and the staff the new coach takes on will determine a lot about the team

StunnaStan · Post #8 » by **StunnaStan** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 7:20 am

If we keep the current roster we'll be in the lottery next season as well. The way the Portland Trailblazers/atlanta hawks stayed together and self improved has been great to watch. The reason that method won't work in Denver is because unlike Portland and atl, Denver doesn't have an a legitimate foundation/star player. Aldridge, Lillard, Teague, Millsap, Horford. Those are players whom you know too expect good things from on a nightly basis. outside of Faried playing hard, I never know what to expect from our inconsistent bunch. And Faried playing "hard" isn't cutting it anymore. Dude is undersized, not strong and has no moves or footwork. Also, I hope we haven't gotten ahead of ourselves with the recent wins. Neither Milwaukee and Minnesota have top 16 records leaguewide. Kevin Durant, Gordon Hayward, Andrew Wiggins. Those are 3 other small forwards in the division and all of them are wayyyy more valuable than danilo. Why should we commit to an injury ridden, non athletic, inconsistent scorer who when even at his best, isn't better or as good as anyone I named. Keeping Lawson means that 9 of the teams fighting for the playoffs atm out west would have better point guards than lawson. A Ty lawson assist isn't like a Steve Nash assist.

JerrySloan · Post #9 » by **JerrySloan** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 6:14 pm

That being said, I was a bit rash. Nelson I think is a very good leader, plays the game right, and has gone deep in the playoffs before. Faried, as much as he's getting paid, is not someone I want on my team. He's got that on court intensity which is great, but he also comes off very entitled. I think Team USA was the worst thing that could have happened to him because his ego just went through the roof.

I do not understand the comment Faried "comes off very entitled". Where is the proof of that?

Faried didn't get along with Shaw. Neither did Lawson or Afflalo and I'm pretty sure that there were others.

Afflalo got traded without having to endure the trashing that Kiszla and Hochman laid on Faried and Lawson with nothing but innuendo to go on but he was just as unhappy with Shaw as they were.

StunnaStan · Post #10 » by **StunnaStan** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 9:10 pm

The Rebel wrote:Really? You want to field a team of all rookies? yep that will win games, and develop the players, look at the wonders that is doing for the 76ers.

Young players should have to earn their minutes, but they need a coach willing to allow them to do that, Shaw did not seem that guy only going to Nurkic when he had no other choice. Overall I am fine with Gallo, Lawson, Faried, and Chandler all staying and playing minutes, with the young guys they should have a decent start to a good team, especially if Joffrey and Nurkic develop and they bring Jokic over and he is half as good as the front office seems to think. Add a top 10 pick and I am fine with that roster.

AS for coach, I would like to see what Hunt can do with the team, Shaw was a terrible fit and a bad coach, but that should not reflect on Hunt, and he should get a fair chance to audition for the job through the end of the season.

nerlens noel
joel embiid
dario saric
sixers 1st round lottery pick (1-4)
possible laker 1st round lottery pick (6 and down gives philly draft rights)
miami 1st round pick #16 (currently owned by philly)
Okc 1st round pick #19 (which we traded to philly with mcgee)
40 million in cap space. Enough money to sign 2 maximum deals.

I would say that its actually working out pretty well for philly rebel when you consider their 2 biggest draft picks have been injured and have recovered really good. nerlens noel is basically a 6'11, 7ft version of faried with a similar post game. Joel Embiid is wayyyy better than nurkic on both ends of the floor and he might actually be bigger than nurkic atm. this is one of the deepest drafts in awhile coming up and they might have 4 picks total but 3 most likely. Their new front office is doing what a new front office should do and getting rid of the old talent that was brought in by the old front office which was fired.

If you work for a struggling company, and a new management comes in to try rebuild the company, thats usually followed by the new management cleaning house with all/most of the old employees. denver did the exact opposite and has kept all the old employees who have consistently failed to meet the requirements of the company (good analogy right?) Its impossible to keep Lawson, Gallo, Faried, and Chandler and be good enough to win a championship because the money aspect of keeping them on the roster. We all agree that neither of the players above are stars. stars usually make 15-20 million. we have 4 players who arent "quite" all star level but are at least considered slightly above role player level. so they arent going to get paid 17.5 mil, but the 10-13 million range seems about right. all 4 of these player combined will earn 41.9 million next season. that will leave only 22 million for the rest of the roster. are those 4 players worth 2/3 of the salary? i dont think so. its should be an easy and obvious decision to get rid of that core but some people are really short sighted and live in the now. losing sucks but winning hurts the team even more. that whole "win games now to build momentum for next yr" mumbo jumbo is played out. Denver having a 5-6 pick as opposed to a 9-12 pick can be the difference maker for the sucess of the franchise going foward.

But now that you see the money thats is at stake in these players, do you still want to keep them together?

pickIBL · Post #11 » by **pickIBL** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 9:30 pm

The Nuggets were doing just fine before some injuries and a coaching change derailed the team. Shaw is gone. Lawson and Faried are still here. Check and check. Maybe they use their pick. Maybe the trade it in a splash for talent with more experience. But if the Nuggets are healthy and play run and gun ball... they could surprise people next year.

skywalker33 · Post #12 » by **skywalker33** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 10:50 pm

pickIBL wrote:But if the Nuggets are healthy and play run and gun ball... they could surprise people next year.

Heard that a lot in my lifetime....... I am on record as saying we don't need to blow it up, but rather dissect it and replace bit by bit. The whole is not as good as the sum of it's parts IMO. But By doing it over the next 2-3 years we can get value for the individual parts to make it worthwhile to sell off the parts. Chandler still has some value during this off-season, and if Faried and Gallo continue their upward spiraling play, their value may increase as well. Lawson at the point, well I want to keep hold of him until we can get a better replacement for him as I feel that position is critical to developing a good young center like Nurkic.

StunnaStan · Post #13 » by **StunnaStan** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 12:22 pm

steph curry and draymond green
mike conley and zach randolph
Damien Lillard and Lamarcus Aldrige
chris paul and blake
rondo and Nowitski
tony parker and Tim Duncan
russell westbrook and serge ibaka
Jrue Holiday and Anthony Davis
jeff teague and al horford
kyrie irving and kevin love
john wall and nene

those are just a couple of point guard_power foward combos that are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than Lawson and Faried. You said check and check as if its a no brainer to keep them.

outside of Anthony davis, Kevin Love, and Kyrie everyone that i named has played a big role at one point or another in getting his team out of the 1st round of the playoffs. No one on the nuggets roster has this type of accolade.

JerrySloan · Post #14 » by **JerrySloan** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 7:49 pm

by StunnaStan » Today 12:22 pm

steph curry and draymond green
mike conley and zach randolph
Damien Lillard and Lamarcus Aldrige
chris paul and blake
rondo and Nowitski
tony parker and Tim Duncan
russell westbrook and serge ibaka
Jrue Holiday and Anthony Davis
jeff teague and al horford
kyrie irving and kevin love
john wall and nene

those are just a couple of point guard_power foward combos that are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than Lawson and Faried. You said check and check as if its a no brainer to keep them.

outside of Anthony davis, Kevin Love, and Kyrie everyone that i named has played a big role at one point or another in getting his team out of the 1st round of the playoffs. No one on the nuggets roster has this type of accolade.

I'm not going to waste a lot of time researching all the combinations above to verify the accuracy of your statement.

I'll just say that the ONLY reason that the WIzards got past the 1st round last year was because they were fortunate enough to play a Bulls team without the injures Derrick Rose and without the traded Luol Deng.

Oh yeah, and although they probably will if they AND LBJ are healthy come PO time, Kyrie And Love have never been on the same team before this year.

StunnaStan · Post #15 » by **StunnaStan** » Sat Mar 7, 2015 5:26 pm

No research needs to be done. Name 1 person lawson and faried are better than on that list. You probably can't.

I agree with what you said about Washington and Chicago. Now do you remember how David Lee was hurt most of that series and faried was destroyed by carl laundry. Yeah faried had a bad ankle, but when a guy turns his back to you and uses his strength to back you down all the time, the bad ankle excuse goes out of the window.

Kyrie and love are in year 1 of playing together and I'll take them over any season of the lawson faried combo.

StunnaStan · Post #16 » by **StunnaStan** » Sat Mar 7, 2015 5:38 pm

I highly recommend that you guys go back and watch the nuggets warriors series and go a little further back to watch the nuggets okc series. A common theme is our supposed "best" player's not playing to the best of their ability.

skywalker33 · Post #17 » by **skywalker33** » Sat Mar 7, 2015 10:23 pm

SS, please note, 95% of those players were all high draft points.The two that weren't, Holiday and Green are both comparable to Lawson and Faried. If you want to make value comparisons, at least make them apples to apples

youngthegiant · Post #18 » by **youngthegiant** » Sat Mar 7, 2015 10:57 pm

I say we give it one more whirl with this roster. We absolutely need to hit on our pick. By that I mean we need an all star level player. Considering we have top 7 Pick, there is a decent chance we find one. Also we only have 50 million in salary for next season, so we could go out and throw a max contract at someone. Add a veteran coach, and we have the pieces to be in the playoffs again. Not sure yet who we can pursue in free agency, but maybe a big man like Greg Monroe or a defensive power forward like Draymond Green.

pickaxe · Post #19 » by **pickaxe** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 8:00 pm

JerrySloan wrote:
That being said, I was a bit rash. Nelson I think is a very good leader, plays the game right, and has gone deep in the playoffs before. Faried, as much as he's getting paid, is not someone I want on my team. He's got that on court intensity which is great, but he also comes off very entitled. I think Team USA was the worst thing that could have happened to him because his ego just went through the roof.

I do not understand the comment Faried "comes off very entitled". Where is the proof of that?

Faried didn't get along with Shaw. Neither did Lawson or Afflalo and I'm pretty sure that there were others.

Afflalo got traded without having to endure the trashing that Kiszla and Hochman laid on Faried and Lawson with nothing but innuendo to go on but he was just as unhappy with Shaw as they were.

Faried is a Scorpio dude. Do something to defile him and zing! His mind is made up about you. Now take that and turn it toward our opponents and you have someone to lead the charge. Just make sure he has a point guard to control the ball and make him get his looks from offensive rebounds.

A good coach will know how to turn that attacking mentality into a huge advantage for us rather than our greatest weakness.

Don't think I'm serious? Watch his play tonight and read what a Scorpio does and see if that doesn't fit to the letter.

StunnaStan · Post #20 » by **StunnaStan** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:27 pm

JerrySloan wrote:
That being said, I was a bit rash. Nelson I think is a very good leader, plays the game right, and has gone deep in the playoffs before. Faried, as much as he's getting paid, is not someone I want on my team. He's got that on court intensity which is great, but he also comes off very entitled. I think Team USA was the worst thing that could have happened to him because his ego just went through the roof.

I do not understand the comment Faried "comes off very entitled". Where is the proof of that?

Faried didn't get along with Shaw. Neither did Lawson or Afflalo and I'm pretty sure that there were others.

Afflalo got traded without having to endure the trashing that Kiszla and Hochman laid on Faried and Lawson with nothing but innuendo to go on but he was just as unhappy with Shaw as they were.

Jameer isnt a good leader. When his orlando team went to the finals, rafer alston was the starting point guard for the injured nelson up until the finals against the lakers. Nelson actually played his 1st playoff game against the lakers and him not playing all the previous playoff games messed up the magics offensive flow.