How Good is Jokic?

[The Rebel]

my understanding about usg% is that it's just individual FGA+AST+TO / Posessions; said better in my mind it's always been a pseudo-"Chucking Rating". Pass heavy guys just aren't going to be leading it.

I really wouldn't put much thought into it. Excellent floor generals like Chris Paul and Kyle Lowry are in a similar ball park. A guy like Joakim Noah who ran the entire Bulls offense in 2014 only get to 18%.

I understand what Usage % is, and think in this case you are not understanding my point. The difference between Chris Paul and Kyle Lowry is that Jokic is a big that has some of the best efficiency in the league and is clearly the best player on the team, and he can score much better than Noah ever could and is a true franchise guy while Noah never was close to that level. Jokic should be involved at the end of plays more than basically 1 out of every 4.5 plays down the court. On this team he should be at a usage at about 1 out of every 3.5 times down the court, like guys like Giannis AnteKounmpo, Anthony Davis, Steph curry, Brook Lopez. John Wall. In other words he should be involved in plays and getting the touches just like every other teams franchise or all star type player when clearly the best player on the team.

[U hova]

That's my b. I do think he should involve himself more, but at the same time since his scoring relies on craftiness rather than raw speed or power that element of surprise when calling his own number is probably just as important. The lean in shot he takes after pivoting, for example, would probably be less effective when teams start to expect it. Not to say I doubt the guy's scoring ability... this is the same guy who called LeBron a mis-match.

There's also Jokic's own problems. Yes, he gets iced out of possessions, but he is also passive to a fault. Jokic doubts his perimeter jumpshot; he hesitates too much to take the 3, sometimes passing the look entirely to swing the ball more. I think it was Hastings who pointed out that Jokic doesn't deal with physicality well; if the refs don't intervene he gets frustrated and will stop going low to be that direct endpoint on offense. I believe these are all points that can be smoothed out over the off-season.

But when all is said and done, he's the focal point of an offense that rivals the superteams in CLE and GS. His frontcourt touches per game post ASG is up there with threats like Kawhi Hayward and George; we play about 3 or 4 more possessions than their respective teams, and a crude adjustment of subtracting 3 touches per game puts him in the same range as Demarcus Cousins and Draymond Green. He just uses those opportunities differently than those other guys and the results speak for themselves. It'd be nice if he got more touches to rival guards since he's our primary playmaker, but he has immense value off ball because of how his defender needs to play him; theoretically that helps his teammates get into a scoring groove and lets him "rest" every few offensive possessions (conditioning is another thing he can work on off-season).

[The Rebel]

I do agree and have posted in this thread that Jokic needs to be in better shape and be more aggressive. At the same time it is up to the coaching staff to design more and call more plays for Jokic, and it requires the players to actually pass the **** ball to Jokic. Which is one reason I want to see Nelson and a couple other vets gone this summer.

[skywalker33]

That's my b. I do think he should involve himself more, but at the same time since his scoring relies on craftiness rather than raw speed or power that element of surprise when calling his own number is probably just as important. The lean in shot he takes after pivoting, for example, would probably be less effective when teams start to expect it. Not to say I doubt the guy's scoring ability... this is the same guy who called LeBron a mis-match.

Nikola has never been known for his athleticism and does need to add muscle over the off-season, but he is only 22yr old.

There's also Jokic's own problems. Yes, he gets iced out of possessions, but he is also passive to a fault. Jokic doubts his perimeter jumpshot; he hesitates too much to take the 3, sometimes passing the look entirely to swing the ball more. I think it was Hastings who pointed out that Jokic doesn't deal with physicality well; if the refs don't intervene he gets frustrated and will stop going low to be that direct endpoint on offense. I believe these are all points that can be smoothed out over the off-season.

Don't know where you make the assessment he gets "Iced out", his 3 offensive rebounds proves he arounds the ball more time than naught. What you think is passive, I construe as using his intense BBIQ to assess the play. I agree with Hastings assessment but an off-season as of working out with Hess to add some muscle and agility couldn't hurt. Most players who aren't getting calls while getting hacked are frustrated, but it doesn't matter, he needs to just play rather than complain.

[The Rebel]

I think Plumlee is too high but a good ranking for Jokic.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2702639-nba-position-power-rankings-end-of-regular-season-edition-centers

[NuggetsWY]

I think Plumlee is too high but a good ranking for Jokic.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2702639-nba-position-power-rankings-end-of-regular-season-edition-centers

Fascinating read, thanks for sharing.

I'm actually a fan of Plumlee. I don't think he had enough time to adjust to Denver and figure out how he fit, but I think he'll fit fine, if he's used a little differently. I'd prefer to see less of him alongside Jokic and more of him at center (not saying no twin towers, just saying a little less). With that said, I agree with The Rebel, I think he's rated too high, by quite a bit.

Jokic is #3? What? Sure, I'll agree that he's better than everyone below him and no doubt he's probably not at the level of Anthony Davis (who would be my choice for #1 just because he's better on the offensive end). OK, I'll even agree Gobert is better than Jokic, but his offense leaves him behind Davis in my book.
* * *
I don't agree with all of the ratings but there are a few that seem off by quite a bit:
Steven Adams definetly deserves higher.
Nurkic probably does too but his late trade to Portland didn't leave room to truly prove that.
I don't think Noel deserves his rating. I think he still needs work but perhaps they're rating him on his potential?
Pau Gasol is getting older, but there is no way he is the 15th best center in the league. There are some very one-dimentional players listed ahead of him.
Embiid probably deserves a little higher, but he's already in the top 10 and he hasn't played enough games to know where he truly ranks.
Karl-Anthony Towns moved down one rank from last year? That's insane!
Cousins slid from #2 to #4 and it just seems like the Pelicans play better when he isn't there - so do the Kings. He does NOT deserve to be in the top-10 until he learns how to help his team win - stats are not the answer. Besides, he has played PF all year; for the Kings and for the Pelicans.

[The Rebel]

He basis it a lot on advanced stats, which help and hurt some players more than others.

Jokic is the king of advanced offensive side stats, and Gobert is the king of defensive advanced stats, Davis is the best all around guy.
KAT has horrible advanced stats, the TWolves were better with him off the court than with him on, it got better as the year went on but overall he struggled.
Adams is hurt by having a good center in Kanter behind him, much like it really used to hurt Gallo and Chandler splitting so many minutes at SF it hurts both those guys with advanced stats.
Gasol is only playing minutes when he is most effective, if he is struggling or tired Pop sits him, which allows his advanced stats to look great despite very limited play.
Embiid would have been top 3 if he had played the entire season, that is where his advanced stats put him, but due to missing so much time I think his ranking is fair.
Noel has always been a guy loved by advanced stats, he puts up big numbers for steals and blocks and only takes shots at the rim, but like Camby used to be in Denver, those stats indicate a much better player than the eye test does.
Nurkic did not try for more than half the season, the rating is fair to me, but if he keeps his head straight next year than I would not be surprised to see him in the top 10.
Cousins is another guy who stats and advanced stats indicate to be better than he is. He is a great player but I have always felt he is more about getting his stats than he was about winning games.

[Mickey8]

Still, as Jokic prepares to enter the offseason on the heels of a breakout sophomore season, the 6-foot-10 center knows he needs to continue to sculpt and build his body.

“At the end of the season I’m going to talk to (director of strength and training Steve) Hess and Felipe (Eichenberger, associate strength and conditioning coach) and the front office about how I can improve my body and figure out what I’m going to do,” Jokic said.

As always, Jokic said his older brothers, Strahinja and Nemanja, will take an active role in helping him train.



“I just like working out with them,” Jokic said. “I need to sit with them and talk about how we’re going to do it. They like doing everything.”

There was little rest last summer for Jokic, who helped the Serbian national team win the silver medal at Olympics in Brazil. His schedule shouldn’t be as hectic this summer, but Jokic is determined to make big strides heading into his third season.

“I just want to improve myself,” he said. “I think I did a good job last summer. I had a better season this year than last year, so I just want to do the same thing.”

[NuggetsWY]

http://www.thescore.com/news/1250710

27th best player in the NBA this year? I may be a homer, but I agree. He certainly earned this and we're looking for him to improve? Yup! We certainly are!!!

[U hova]

uh... he's objectively top 15 material.

[MidMountain]

King of the Unicorns: http://www.denverstiffs.com/2017/4/17/15323076/king-of-the-unicorns-an-animated-review

[The Rebel]

Doc Rivers says that Jokic is one of the best big men in the league, not young big men but big men total. Also high praise for Murray. Nuggets part starts a little after 14 minute into the interview.

Read on Twitter

[Mickey8]

Jokic is working hard, you can already see transformation of his body, especially in the first picture

[skywalker33]

Jokic is working hard, you can already see transformation of his body, especially in the first picture

Yeah, much better lower body definition than that horse

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Some random stuff. He is going to be a guest in the popular satire tv show called Državni Posao or Government Job. Also he looks thinner than before

[NuggetsWY]

Here's a reminder: http://bsndenver.com/2017-nba-awards-nuggets-nikola-jokic-finishes-second-in-most-improved-player-voting/

and my favorite sentence from this article: "After Dec. 15, the date when Jokic became the Nuggets’ starter at center, he averaged 19.2 points on 58.7 percent shooting from the field, 34.2 percent from three, 10.9 rebounds and 5.2 assists per game."

Reading that, I'm wishing pre-season started next week.

[Popovich]

Serbian national team captain and one of the bests PG's in Europe Teodosic had to say something to Jokic just today. Teodosic sent a clear message to Jokic further explaining it through his own example. Moscow-its (meant CSKA from Moscow) demanded from Teodosic not to play for his national team.

" They demanded that from me every year. But they knew about my stance, I will play every summer! Except back than when I was injured. And they couldn't influence on my decision. That was my decision, but now he must to end up with that. He must decide.
With whatever decision he ends up with, we must respect it, because Jokic is someone who will play for national team in long years to come. For sure that we would all like that he is here, but it is on him to make a decision."

Teodosic, in my opinion is the reason why Jokic still is not the best Serbian basketball player.

My questions are:

Is it better for for Denver to let Jokić play for his national team, or isn't ?
What is the best for Jokic and what is the best option for Nuggets?

[skywalker33]

Serbian national team captain and one of the bests PG's in Europe Teodosic had to say something to Jokic just today. Teodosic sent a clear message to Jokic further explaining it through his own example. Moscow-its (meant CSKA from Moscow) demanded from Teodosic not to play for his national team.

" They demanded that from me every year. But they knew about my stance, I will play every summer! Except back than when I was injured. And they couldn't influence on my decision. That was my decision, but now he must to end up with that. He must decide.
With whatever decision he ends up with, we must respect it, because Jokic is someone who will play for national team in long years to come. For sure that we would all like that he is here, but it is on him to make a decision."

Teodosic, in my opinion is the reason why Jokic still is not the best Serbian basketball player.

My questions are:

Is it better for for Denver to let Jokić play for his national team, or isn't ?
What is the best for Jokic and what is the best option for Nuggets?

In my opinion, I'd prefer Jokic just continue training for the next NBA season. He went from the NBA his rookie year, to national team to Olympics back to NBA....that's gotta take a lot out of you, even at age 22. Let him rest an off-season, continue to build strength and muscle and see how good he becomes next season.

[NuggetsWY]

Serbian national team captain and one of the bests PG's in Europe Teodosic had to say something to Jokic just today. Teodosic sent a clear message to Jokic further explaining it through his own example. Moscow-its (meant CSKA from Moscow) demanded from Teodosic not to play for his national team.

" They demanded that from me every year. But they knew about my stance, I will play every summer! Except back than when I was injured. And they couldn't influence on my decision. That was my decision, but now he must to end up with that. He must decide.
With whatever decision he ends up with, we must respect it, because Jokic is someone who will play for national team in long years to come. For sure that we would all like that he is here, but it is on him to make a decision."

Teodosic, in my opinion is the reason why Jokic still is not the best Serbian basketball player.

My questions are:

Is it better for for Denver to let Jokić play for his national team, or isn't ?
What is the best for Jokic and what is the best option for Nuggets?

In my opinion, I'd prefer Jokic just continue training for the next NBA season. He went from the NBA his rookie year, to national team to Olympics back to NBA....that's gotta take a lot out of you, even at age 22. Let him rest an off-season, continue to build strength and muscle and see how good he becomes next season.

Agreed - it is easier for someone playing Euro-ball to play in international play. It's a different style than NBA and Jokic needs to focus on NBA ball for now. 2 or 3 years down the road, I would see less of an issue. But he's still got a lot to learn about himself and dealing with his emotions during games.

For example; in Euro-ball, "throw-away" fouls to stop a potential fast break are very common even by big men. Jokic needs to break that habit. He is too valuable in the NBA and it is a much more physical game. Speaking frankly, he's more expendable for his national team than he is for the Nuggets. Don't forget, he wasn't even a starter on their medal team last year.

[The Rebel]

Serbian national team captain and one of the bests PG's in Europe Teodosic had to say something to Jokic just today. Teodosic sent a clear message to Jokic further explaining it through his own example. Moscow-its (meant CSKA from Moscow) demanded from Teodosic not to play for his national team.

" They demanded that from me every year. But they knew about my stance, I will play every summer! Except back than when I was injured. And they couldn't influence on my decision. That was my decision, but now he must to end up with that. He must decide.
With whatever decision he ends up with, we must respect it, because Jokic is someone who will play for national team in long years to come. For sure that we would all like that he is here, but it is on him to make a decision."

Teodosic, in my opinion is the reason why Jokic still is not the best Serbian basketball player.

My questions are:

Is it better for for Denver to let Jokić play for his national team, or isn't ?
What is the best for Jokic and what is the best option for Nuggets?

It is easy for a guy who plays about 35 games a year to say that as he does not understand the wear and tear it takes on the body to play 82 games plus the preseason. I personally do not care if he plays for the national team, but trying to guilt him into it is not cool.