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Jokic's production

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Jokic's production 

Post#1 » by skywalker33 » Mon Mar 5, 2018 4:32 pm

There has been noticeable drop-off in Jokic's play since the return of Millsap to the lineup. Certain posters have been blaming Malone as the cause of this drop-off, claiming he is favoring Millsap or even trying to sabotage his career, which I thoroughly scoff at. Here's a direct quote from Malone on/to Jokic about his production.

“Nikola is still the focal point of our offense,” Malone said. “I don’t want Nikola thinking that he has to play second fiddle to anyone. … I want him to shoot the ball more and be more aggressive.”

Even though his ppg is down, it's because he is taking less shots. This was clearly noticeable in the first part of the season as well. I attribute to being Jokic to "blame"....but not in a bad way. I believe Nikola himself is deferring to try to acclimate Millsap back into the offense, a self sacrifice of sorts, showing how unselfish he is. I also believe he has to learn to incorporate his own game back into the offense to continue the amped-up offense we have come to appreciate, it's just a matter of adjustments that I'm sure will come.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#2 » by MidMountain » Mon Mar 5, 2018 4:57 pm

Adam Mares's podcast today focuses on reintegrating Millsap into the offense and has some good insights on why Jokic has struggled:
https://www.denverstiffs.com/2018/3/4/17079978/on-the-re-integration-of-paul-millsap-into-the-offense
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#3 » by skywalker33 » Mon Mar 5, 2018 5:24 pm

MidMountain wrote:Adam Mares's podcast today focuses on reintegrating Millsap into the offense and has some good insights on why Jokic has struggled:
https://www.denverstiffs.com/2018/3/4/17079978/on-the-re-integration-of-paul-millsap-into-the-offense


Mares always has a great view on the Nuggets, I almost always agree and appreciate his takes
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#4 » by Powder Blue » Mon Mar 5, 2018 7:31 pm

I agree with you Sky, It's not like Milsap has taken a ton of shots in his return, 10 in 2 games, 9 in another. Malone isn't taking the ball out of Jokic's hands or telling him not to shoot. It's also unlikely that he was going to maintain the run he was on prior to Milsap getting back, I don't think his conditioning is to the point where he flirts with a triple-double every night for an entire season. Maybe physically he needed to ease up at the same time Milsap returned, or Milsap's return allowed it to happen.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#5 » by skywalker33 » Mon Mar 5, 2018 8:37 pm

Powder Blue wrote:I agree with you Sky, It's not like Milsap has taken a ton of shots in his return, 10 in 2 games, 9 in another. Malone isn't taking the ball out of Jokic's hands or telling him not to shoot. It's also unlikely that he was going to maintain the run he was on prior to Milsap getting back, I don't think his conditioning is to the point where he flirts with a triple-double every night for an entire season. Maybe physically he needed to ease up at the same time Milsap returned, or Milsap's return allowed it to happen.


Interesting you bring up Jokic's conditioning, I believe that The Rebel has mentioned condition problems for Joker and a few others as well, we may need to invest in a better strength and conditioning coach. Heard mention that Jokic did seem winded this last game, we really need our guys in top shape for this playoff run. Not hard to get run down at this point in the season, its why Popovich rested his guys a lot.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#6 » by Powder Blue » Mon Mar 5, 2018 9:20 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
Powder Blue wrote:I agree with you Sky, It's not like Milsap has taken a ton of shots in his return, 10 in 2 games, 9 in another. Malone isn't taking the ball out of Jokic's hands or telling him not to shoot. It's also unlikely that he was going to maintain the run he was on prior to Milsap getting back, I don't think his conditioning is to the point where he flirts with a triple-double every night for an entire season. Maybe physically he needed to ease up at the same time Milsap returned, or Milsap's return allowed it to happen.


Interesting you bring up Jokic's conditioning, I believe that The Rebel has mentioned condition problems for Joker and a few others as well, we may need to invest in a better strength and conditioning coach. Heard mention that Jokic did seem winded this last game, we really need our guys in top shape for this playoff run. Not hard to get run down at this point in the season, its why Popovich rested his guys a lot.


His conditioning may get better over time but Jokic is not the natural athlete that Anthony Davis or KAT are. Seemed like he did all the right things this summer but it likely takes several summers to train your body to compete night in and night out in the NBA, especially when your athletic gifts aren't quite the same as the guys you're playing against.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#7 » by skywalker33 » Mon Mar 5, 2018 9:53 pm

Powder Blue wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Powder Blue wrote:I agree with you Sky, It's not like Milsap has taken a ton of shots in his return, 10 in 2 games, 9 in another. Malone isn't taking the ball out of Jokic's hands or telling him not to shoot. It's also unlikely that he was going to maintain the run he was on prior to Milsap getting back, I don't think his conditioning is to the point where he flirts with a triple-double every night for an entire season. Maybe physically he needed to ease up at the same time Milsap returned, or Milsap's return allowed it to happen.


Interesting you bring up Jokic's conditioning, I believe that The Rebel has mentioned condition problems for Joker and a few others as well, we may need to invest in a better strength and conditioning coach. Heard mention that Jokic did seem winded this last game, we really need our guys in top shape for this playoff run. Not hard to get run down at this point in the season, its why Popovich rested his guys a lot.


His conditioning may get better over time but Jokic is not the natural athlete that Anthony Davis or KAT are. Seemed like he did all the right things this summer but it likely takes several summers to train your body to compete night in and night out in the NBA, especially when your athletic gifts aren't quite the same as the guys you're playing against.


I heard his training in Serbia was not quite as intensive as his Instagram showed, I'd like to see him put in a full session over here in the altitude prior to the season. Getting in shape at altitude is different than other places, wonder what effect it would have on his game for the season if he worked out with a PT in Denver for a season or two :o
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#8 » by THE J0KER » Mon Mar 5, 2018 11:11 pm

This Malone statement is a very good sign. Every single season so far of Jokic young career he started with the wrong role and wrong treatment from his coach Malone, and every season we waiting for the middle of December for a "big corrections" and Malone public statements like this where he finally realize who should be in the middle of everything in Denver offense. And this season Jokic wrong treatment prolongs even more, and Plumlee late January injury, not Malone himself, put Jokic in the right place. Jokic is 2014 draft class and 2015 rookie class, so before Plumlee injury compared to all other big names from that groups of players (KAT, Embiid, Porzingis, D.Booker, Capela, A.Gordon, G.Harris...) he seems like the only one who didn't improve this season. But after Plumlee injury, Jokic put on the court some numbers never been seen in NBA for centers since great Wilt Chamberlain! Before Plumlee injury (January 22nd) Denver is 23-23, but 12-5 after. Should we blame Jokic or Plumlee for that or coach Malone wrong use and incompetence? We already have a winning formula of our offense from the last season, he should do not experimenting nor change anything.

After Millsap comeback, there are just 3 matches. In first vs Clippers Millsap comes off the bench and can't be used "against" Jokic anyway. But the problem in that game is just 27 minutes Jokic played vs direct playoff rival (Barton played 40 f.e.), and we lose that match at the end. Next match is vs Memphis, and you can't recognize our game, but we are lucky because the opponent is so weak. And third last game is vs Cleveland, where Jokic 9-7-8 numbers are far from impressive for his own standards, but if you look at the number of Denver assists and points that night, you can clearly recognize good-old Nuggets offense. Also, playing vs league-best frontcourt player LBJ it is a legit strategy to put the focus at offensive end on your small guys (Harris-Murray-Barton), which have nothing with Millsap. And Jokic and Plumlee do not share any single second on the court that night.

As I pointed several times since Millsap sign, Millsap is a good fit for Jokic and to others, so his impact should be on the team big improvement of our defense without any damage or change in offense. As I say, this Malone statement is a really good sign, which means he is the one who realizes how Jokic should play in offense in the rest of the season despite Millsap comeback. It is Malone who reduced Jokic minutes vs Clippers or changed our offensive system vs Memphis, not Jokic lack of the aggressiveness, Millsap or whatever.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#9 » by _Joker » Tue Mar 6, 2018 1:54 am

skywalker33 wrote:
Powder Blue wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Interesting you bring up Jokic's conditioning, I believe that The Rebel has mentioned condition problems for Joker and a few others as well, we may need to invest in a better strength and conditioning coach. Heard mention that Jokic did seem winded this last game, we really need our guys in top shape for this playoff run. Not hard to get run down at this point in the season, its why Popovich rested his guys a lot.


His conditioning may get better over time but Jokic is not the natural athlete that Anthony Davis or KAT are. Seemed like he did all the right things this summer but it likely takes several summers to train your body to compete night in and night out in the NBA, especially when your athletic gifts aren't quite the same as the guys you're playing against.


I heard his training in Serbia was not quite as intensive as his Instagram showed, I'd like to see him put in a full session over here in the altitude prior to the season. Getting in shape at altitude is different than other places, wonder what effect it would have on his game for the season if he worked out with a PT in Denver for a season or two :o


Good point, and this is true.

Quite a few of our AFL clubs have flown their players over to Denver to train at altitude for pre-season for the last several years.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#10 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Mar 6, 2018 1:58 am

Malone is good at sound-bytes and this is a good one. I'm just not a believer.

As for conditioning, Jokic's play is not based on his jumping nor on his quickness/speed. Sure, conditioning is important and it seems better than last year, but I'm not convinced that's the sole problem. Perhaps sometimes Malone plays him too many minutes in given stretches, but you can usually figure out if Jokic is tired because he commits a silly foul just to slow the game down.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#11 » by skywalker33 » Tue Mar 6, 2018 2:29 am

THE J0KER wrote:This Malone statement is a very good sign. Every single season so far of Jokic young career he started with the wrong role and wrong treatment from his coach Malone, and every season we waiting for the middle of December for a "big corrections" and Malone public statements like this where he finally realize who should be in the middle of everything in Denver offense. And this season Jokic wrong treatment prolongs even more, and Plumlee late January injury, not Malone himself, put Jokic in the right place. Jokic is 2014 draft class and 2015 rookie class, so before Plumlee injury compared to all other big names from that groups of players (KAT, Embiid, Porzingis, D.Booker, Capela, A.Gordon, G.Harris...) he seems like the only one who didn't improve this season. But after Plumlee injury, Jokic put on the court some numbers never been seen in NBA for centers since great Wilt Chamberlain! Before Plumlee injury (January 22nd) Denver is 23-23, but 12-5 after. Should we blame Jokic or Plumlee for that or coach Malone wrong use and incompetence? We already have a winning formula of our offense from the last season, he should do not experimenting nor change anything.

After Millsap comeback, there are just 3 matches. In first vs Clippers Millsap comes off the bench and can't be used "against" Jokic anyway. But the problem in that game is just 27 minutes Jokic played vs direct playoff rival (Barton played 40 f.e.), and we lose that match at the end. Next match is vs Memphis, and you can't recognize our game, but we are lucky because the opponent is so weak. And third last game is vs Cleveland, where Jokic 9-7-8 numbers are far from impressive for his own standards, but if you look at the number of Denver assists and points that night, you can clearly recognize good-old Nuggets offense. Also, playing vs league-best frontcourt player LBJ it is a legit strategy to put the focus at offensive end on your small guys (Harris-Murray-Barton), which have nothing with Millsap. And Jokic and Plumlee do not share any single second on the court that night.

As I pointed several times since Millsap sign, Millsap is a good fit for Jokic and to others, so his impact should be on the team big improvement of our defense without any damage or change in offense. As I say, this Malone statement is a really good sign, which means he is the one who realizes how Jokic should play in offense in the rest of the season despite Millsap comeback. It is Malone who reduced Jokic minutes vs Clippers or changed our offensive system vs Memphis, not Jokic lack of the aggressiveness, Millsap or whatever.


I see the Jokic Euro fans perspective a lot different than mine so I'd like clarification on a few things.

1. How has Malone treated Jokic wrong ? I see trying him in a Twin Tower pairing as a mistake, but that isn't treating him wrong, I see it as a failed experiment.

2. I don't get the God-like status you place on Jokic. While he's our star, a great player and continues to get better, he still fouls a bit too much, has some turnover issues at times, isn't always as aggressive as he should be and does need to improve on his defense. That may sound like I'm cracking on the Joker, but I'd be happy to support my assessments if you follow suit. I do say that some his turnovers are a result of his high BBIQ that other players don't follow but he has to make sure everyone is on the same page as HE is the playmaker.

3. Euro fans don't seem to value the TEAM or any of the other players on the team as much as they appear to think the only thing that is important is that Jokic should succeed even at the expense of the other players or even wins. Jokic doesn't seem to think his individual stats are as important, that's one of the qualities I LOVE about this guy, am I wrong here ???
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#12 » by THE J0KER » Tue Mar 6, 2018 3:46 am

skywalker33 wrote:
Spoiler:
THE J0KER wrote:This Malone statement is a very good sign. Every single season so far of Jokic young career he started with the wrong role and wrong treatment from his coach Malone, and every season we waiting for the middle of December for a "big corrections" and Malone public statements like this where he finally realize who should be in the middle of everything in Denver offense. And this season Jokic wrong treatment prolongs even more, and Plumlee late January injury, not Malone himself, put Jokic in the right place. Jokic is 2014 draft class and 2015 rookie class, so before Plumlee injury compared to all other big names from that groups of players (KAT, Embiid, Porzingis, D.Booker, Capela, A.Gordon, G.Harris...) he seems like the only one who didn't improve this season. But after Plumlee injury, Jokic put on the court some numbers never been seen in NBA for centers since great Wilt Chamberlain! Before Plumlee injury (January 22nd) Denver is 23-23, but 12-5 after. Should we blame Jokic or Plumlee for that or coach Malone wrong use and incompetence? We already have a winning formula of our offense from the last season, he should do not experimenting nor change anything.

After Millsap comeback, there are just 3 matches. In first vs Clippers Millsap comes off the bench and can't be used "against" Jokic anyway. But the problem in that game is just 27 minutes Jokic played vs direct playoff rival (Barton played 40 f.e.), and we lose that match at the end. Next match is vs Memphis, and you can't recognize our game, but we are lucky because the opponent is so weak. And third last game is vs Cleveland, where Jokic 9-7-8 numbers are far from impressive for his own standards, but if you look at the number of Denver assists and points that night, you can clearly recognize good-old Nuggets offense. Also, playing vs league-best frontcourt player LBJ it is a legit strategy to put the focus at offensive end on your small guys (Harris-Murray-Barton), which have nothing with Millsap. And Jokic and Plumlee do not share any single second on the court that night.

As I pointed several times since Millsap sign, Millsap is a good fit for Jokic and to others, so his impact should be on the team big improvement of our defense without any damage or change in offense. As I say, this Malone statement is a really good sign, which means he is the one who realizes how Jokic should play in offense in the rest of the season despite Millsap comeback. It is Malone who reduced Jokic minutes vs Clippers or changed our offensive system vs Memphis, not Jokic lack of the aggressiveness, Millsap or whatever.


I see the Jokic Euro fans perspective a lot different than mine so I'd like clarification on a few things.

1. How has Malone treated Jokic wrong ? I see trying him in a Twin Tower pairing as a mistake, but that isn't treating him wrong, I see it as a failed experiment.

2. I don't get the God-like status you place on Jokic. While he's our star, a great player and continues to get better, he still fouls a bit too much, has some turnover issues at times, isn't always as aggressive as he should be and does need to improve on his defense. That may sound like I'm cracking on the Joker, but I'd be happy to support my assessments if you follow suit. I do say that some his turnovers are a result of his high BBIQ that other players don't follow but he has to make sure everyone is on the same page as HE is the playmaker.

3. Euro fans don't seem to value the TEAM or any of the other players on the team as much as they appear to think the only thing that is important is that Jokic should succeed even at the expense of the other players or even wins. Jokic doesn't seem to think his individual stats are as important, that's one of the qualities I LOVE about this guy, am I wrong here ???

1. We not played twin-towers but much worse, Malone put Jokic at PF behind Nurkic last season, and Plumlee this season after Millsap injury. If Malone has a clean vision that Denver game should be built around Jokic, not Jokic game to be adjusted to our other big man, such wrong experiment would never happen. Also, how you would explain that idiotic mental game from Malone for sitting Jokic so often in last 1-2 minute of open matches, replacing him with league-worst FT shooter Plumlee? Nuggets never have any benefits from that by any meaning, and I remind you that much better Memphis coach this season was fired because of he ONCE irrationally sit-down teams franchise player Marc Gasol in 4th quarter. There is no Gasol ultimatum or request, simple Memphis FO didn't want any kind of bad blood between franchise and team's best player.

2. Jokic fouls are not the issue anymore, he has almost the same per game like during his rookie season when he played 10 mpg less, and only 6 times this season (out of 56 games) he has 5+ fouls. Also, his ast/to ratio is just great for a big man intensively involved in passing, on an identical level with LeBron and Simmons, and many of Jokic TO's also coming from ridiculous offensive fouls. And also, unlike in Westbrook, Harden, LBJ cases, Jokic never forcing his assists, in his 11 triple doubles he has 8 times 3 or less TO's.

3. You have a very wrong perception of European basketball fans because, in reality, they are in general actually more focused on team stats and results than average US fans, and less on players individual statistical achievements. That said, I must explain why Nikola Jokic case should be an exception. Nikola is a true example of player which make his teammates better, so more he is involved in Nuggets game, more benefits team gets back. Best particular indicator how much is Jokic involved in some game and how much he running Nuggets offense is a number of his assists. Denver is 30-11 (73%) in all Jokic career games when he achieves 7+ assists, and his numbers in these 41 games are 18-12-9. So, in this specific Jokic case, player OR team is a fake dilemma: better Jokic = better Denver.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#13 » by Mickey8 » Wed Mar 7, 2018 12:32 am

He was only in the foul trouble against the Clippers , I don't remember the last game prior to that, when he made two quick fouls in the first quarter, also the last season Malone decided to play him through foul trouble at the end of the season and it worked well. I don't think fouling is a big issue here.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#14 » by Mickey8 » Wed Mar 7, 2018 12:35 am

skywalker33 wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:This Malone statement is a very good sign. Every single season so far of Jokic young career he started with the wrong role and wrong treatment from his coach Malone, and every season we waiting for the middle of December for a "big corrections" and Malone public statements like this where he finally realize who should be in the middle of everything in Denver offense. And this season Jokic wrong treatment prolongs even more, and Plumlee late January injury, not Malone himself, put Jokic in the right place. Jokic is 2014 draft class and 2015 rookie class, so before Plumlee injury compared to all other big names from that groups of players (KAT, Embiid, Porzingis, D.Booker, Capela, A.Gordon, G.Harris...) he seems like the only one who didn't improve this season. But after Plumlee injury, Jokic put on the court some numbers never been seen in NBA for centers since great Wilt Chamberlain! Before Plumlee injury (January 22nd) Denver is 23-23, but 12-5 after. Should we blame Jokic or Plumlee for that or coach Malone wrong use and incompetence? We already have a winning formula of our offense from the last season, he should do not experimenting nor change anything.

After Millsap comeback, there are just 3 matches. In first vs Clippers Millsap comes off the bench and can't be used "against" Jokic anyway. But the problem in that game is just 27 minutes Jokic played vs direct playoff rival (Barton played 40 f.e.), and we lose that match at the end. Next match is vs Memphis, and you can't recognize our game, but we are lucky because the opponent is so weak. And third last game is vs Cleveland, where Jokic 9-7-8 numbers are far from impressive for his own standards, but if you look at the number of Denver assists and points that night, you can clearly recognize good-old Nuggets offense. Also, playing vs league-best frontcourt player LBJ it is a legit strategy to put the focus at offensive end on your small guys (Harris-Murray-Barton), which have nothing with Millsap. And Jokic and Plumlee do not share any single second on the court that night.

As I pointed several times since Millsap sign, Millsap is a good fit for Jokic and to others, so his impact should be on the team big improvement of our defense without any damage or change in offense. As I say, this Malone statement is a really good sign, which means he is the one who realizes how Jokic should play in offense in the rest of the season despite Millsap comeback. It is Malone who reduced Jokic minutes vs Clippers or changed our offensive system vs Memphis, not Jokic lack of the aggressiveness, Millsap or whatever.


I see the Jokic Euro fans perspective a lot different than mine so I'd like clarification on a few things.

1. How has Malone treated Jokic wrong ? I see trying him in a Twin Tower pairing as a mistake, but that isn't treating him wrong, I see it as a failed experiment.

2. I don't get the God-like status you place on Jokic. While he's our star, a great player and continues to get better, he still fouls a bit too much, has some turnover issues at times, isn't always as aggressive as he should be and does need to improve on his defense. That may sound like I'm cracking on the Joker, but I'd be happy to support my assessments if you follow suit. I do say that some his turnovers are a result of his high BBIQ that other players don't follow but he has to make sure everyone is on the same page as HE is the playmaker.

3. Euro fans don't seem to value the TEAM or any of the other players on the team as much as they appear to think the only thing that is important is that Jokic should succeed even at the expense of the other players or even wins. Jokic doesn't seem to think his individual stats are as important, that's one of the qualities I LOVE about this guy, am I wrong here ???

But he played like one in the last month and half and the Nuggets had a winning record, they should just continue what they were doing, with or without Millsap in the line up.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#15 » by NuggetsWY » Wed Mar 7, 2018 12:49 am

skywalker33 wrote:
Spoiler:
THE J0KER wrote:This Malone statement is a very good sign. Every single season so far of Jokic young career he started with the wrong role and wrong treatment from his coach Malone, and every season we waiting for the middle of December for a "big corrections" and Malone public statements like this where he finally realize who should be in the middle of everything in Denver offense. And this season Jokic wrong treatment prolongs even more, and Plumlee late January injury, not Malone himself, put Jokic in the right place. Jokic is 2014 draft class and 2015 rookie class, so before Plumlee injury compared to all other big names from that groups of players (KAT, Embiid, Porzingis, D.Booker, Capela, A.Gordon, G.Harris...) he seems like the only one who didn't improve this season. But after Plumlee injury, Jokic put on the court some numbers never been seen in NBA for centers since great Wilt Chamberlain! Before Plumlee injury (January 22nd) Denver is 23-23, but 12-5 after. Should we blame Jokic or Plumlee for that or coach Malone wrong use and incompetence? We already have a winning formula of our offense from the last season, he should do not experimenting nor change anything.

After Millsap comeback, there are just 3 matches. In first vs Clippers Millsap comes off the bench and can't be used "against" Jokic anyway. But the problem in that game is just 27 minutes Jokic played vs direct playoff rival (Barton played 40 f.e.), and we lose that match at the end. Next match is vs Memphis, and you can't recognize our game, but we are lucky because the opponent is so weak. And third last game is vs Cleveland, where Jokic 9-7-8 numbers are far from impressive for his own standards, but if you look at the number of Denver assists and points that night, you can clearly recognize good-old Nuggets offense. Also, playing vs league-best frontcourt player LBJ it is a legit strategy to put the focus at offensive end on your small guys (Harris-Murray-Barton), which have nothing with Millsap. And Jokic and Plumlee do not share any single second on the court that night.

As I pointed several times since Millsap sign, Millsap is a good fit for Jokic and to others, so his impact should be on the team big improvement of our defense without any damage or change in offense. As I say, this Malone statement is a really good sign, which means he is the one who realizes how Jokic should play in offense in the rest of the season despite Millsap comeback. It is Malone who reduced Jokic minutes vs Clippers or changed our offensive system vs Memphis, not Jokic lack of the aggressiveness, Millsap or whatever.


I see the Jokic Euro fans perspective a lot different than mine so I'd like clarification on a few things.

1. How has Malone treated Jokic wrong ? I see trying him in a Twin Tower pairing as a mistake, but that isn't treating him wrong, I see it as a failed experiment.

2. I don't get the God-like status you place on Jokic. While he's our star, a great player and continues to get better, he still fouls a bit too much, has some turnover issues at times, isn't always as aggressive as he should be and does need to improve on his defense. That may sound like I'm cracking on the Joker, but I'd be happy to support my assessments if you follow suit. I do say that some his turnovers are a result of his high BBIQ that other players don't follow but he has to make sure everyone is on the same page as HE is the playmaker.

3. Euro fans don't seem to value the TEAM or any of the other players on the team as much as they appear to think the only thing that is important is that Jokic should succeed even at the expense of the other players or even wins. Jokic doesn't seem to think his individual stats are as important, that's one of the qualities I LOVE about this guy, am I wrong here ???

I think Malone treats Jokic poorly in that he seems to not encourage Jokic to shoot enough and doesn't give Jokic enough "usage". Perhaps Jokic just doesn't want to shoot and that's on him, but Malone should be pushing him to shoot more. The more shots he makes, the easier it will be to pass and the more passes he makes, the easier it will be for him to get good shots - which brings up usage. I'd love to see Jokic with the ball in his hands on 90% of the plays when he is on the court. It's easily our best offense.

I agree Jokic fouls "a bit too much" but he is getting better there. Most of the time it's no longer an issue but in a recent game, he only had one foul in the first half (I believe) and then fouled out. In the NBA, a big just can't afford to waste fouls. There are too many ways for bigs to collect fouls. I'll overlook turnovers just because the more you pass, the more turnovers you are likely to make and with some of those passes he makes, the risk of turnover is high - but those are the passes that make everyone over-play him to pass the ball leaving him open to shoot more.

I think Euro-fans in general are very team focused. Perhaps things get out of perspective regarding Jokic simply because of how unique he is.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#16 » by skywalker33 » Wed Mar 7, 2018 3:14 am

NuggetsWY wrote:I think Malone treats Jokic poorly in that he seems to not encourage Jokic to shoot enough and doesn't give Jokic enough "usage".


I keep asking where you guys get this but no one give me a straight answer...show me where Malone has EVER said anything like this ??? I'm not a huge fan of Malone but I don't think he should be judged on unsubstantiated BS

NuggetsWY wrote: Perhaps Jokic just doesn't want to shoot and that's on him, but Malone should be pushing him to shoot more. The more shots he makes, the easier it will be to pass and the more passes he makes, the easier it will be for him to get good shots - which brings up usage. I'd love to see Jokic with the ball in his hands on 90% of the plays when he is on the court. It's easily our best offense.


This I can agree with

NuggetsWY wrote:I think Euro-fans in general are very team focused. Perhaps things get out of perspective regarding Jokic simply because of how unique he is.


I see our Euro fans prioritizing Jokic and his stats over Nuggets team play, that doesn't seem "team focused" to me. Perhaps Euro fans CAN be more team focused because there are so few stats in soccer as compared to basketball. 8-)
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#17 » by NuggetsWY » Wed Mar 7, 2018 4:34 am

skywalker33 wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:I think Malone treats Jokic poorly in that he seems to not encourage Jokic to shoot enough and doesn't give Jokic enough "usage".


I keep asking where you guys get this but no one give me a straight answer...show me where Malone has EVER said anything like this ??? I'm not a huge fan of Malone but I don't think he should be judged on unsubstantiated BS

Then next time look at the entire paragraph - where I pointed out that it might be "Jokic just doesn't want to shoot and that's on him". The BS comes when you take part of what I say in order to prove what you think I said.
NuggetsWY wrote:I think Malone treats Jokic poorly in that he seems to not encourage Jokic to shoot enough and doesn't give Jokic enough "usage". Perhaps Jokic just doesn't want to shoot and that's on him, but Malone should be pushing him to shoot more. The more shots he makes, the easier it will be to pass and the more passes he makes, the easier it will be for him to get good shots - which brings up usage. I'd love to see Jokic with the ball in his hands on 90% of the plays when he is on the court. It's easily our best offense.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#18 » by NuggetsWY » Wed Mar 7, 2018 4:44 am

skywalker33 wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:I think Euro-fans in general are very team focused. Perhaps things get out of perspective regarding Jokic simply because of how unique he is.

I see our Euro fans prioritizing Jokic and his stats over Nuggets team play, that doesn't seem "team focused" to me. Perhaps Euro fans CAN be more team focused because there are so few stats in soccer as compared to basketball. 8-)

I think a lot of American fans do the same thing but that's because America tends to have a significant hero-worship issue and not just in sports. Of course I think that's probably human nature across the world and throughout history.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#19 » by skywalker33 » Wed Mar 7, 2018 4:49 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:I think Malone treats Jokic poorly in that he seems to not encourage Jokic to shoot enough and doesn't give Jokic enough "usage".


I keep asking where you guys get this but no one give me a straight answer...show me where Malone has EVER said anything like this ??? I'm not a huge fan of Malone but I don't think he should be judged on unsubstantiated BS

Then next time look at the entire paragraph - where I pointed out that it might be "Jokic just doesn't want to shoot and that's on him". The BS comes when you take part of what I say in order to prove what you think I said.
NuggetsWY wrote:I think Malone treats Jokic poorly in that he seems to not encourage Jokic to shoot enough and doesn't give Jokic enough "usage". Perhaps Jokic just doesn't want to shoot and that's on him, but Malone should be pushing him to shoot more. The more shots he makes, the easier it will be to pass and the more passes he makes, the easier it will be for him to get good shots - which brings up usage. I'd love to see Jokic with the ball in his hands on 90% of the plays when he is on the court. It's easily our best offense.


Making it two separate statement was perhaps my misinterpretation, but your 1st statement seemed to validated The Joker's previous poor accusation. Your assertion of "i think" made me question where this line of thinking has been coming about, Sure you can see where my frustration abounds here.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#20 » by Powder Blue » Wed Mar 7, 2018 12:41 pm

Uh oh now NugWY and Sky are fighting, wheels falling off on the board too lol

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