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Jokic's production

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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#161 » by U hova » Thu Nov 1, 2018 6:55 pm

we do have juancho...
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#162 » by Mickey8 » Thu Nov 8, 2018 3:22 am

Jokic is acting like an idiot again, same crap he was pulling off last season, when he refuses to score and engage in the basketball game. He should be benched or somebody from the coaching stuff needs to talk with him again, the guy is headcase, he didn't commit single shot attempt tonight, thats your franchise player folks.
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Jokic took one shot!!! 

Post#163 » by TKainZero » Thu Nov 8, 2018 7:01 am

And only took his first shot in the final moments?

What...
How...
Why...

I haven’t seen a mvp caliber player just not take a shot... one shot in the game!!! How.

What happen. Can anyone answer this?
Did Memphis just absolutly destroy him and shut his game down?
Is jokic too passive?
Did Marc gasol just school him?

I didn’t see the game

I just really need info on this.
What happen!!!!

You can’t be a top 5-15 player and disappear like that
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Re: Jokic took one shot!!! 

Post#164 » by THE J0KER » Thu Nov 8, 2018 10:08 am

TKainZero wrote:And only took his first shot in the final moments?

What...
How...
Why...

I haven’t seen a mvp caliber player just not take a shot... one shot in the game!!! How.

What happen. Can anyone answer this?
Did Memphis just absolutly destroy him and shut his game down?
Is jokic too passive?
Did Marc gasol just school him?

I didn’t see the game

I just really need info on this.
What happen!!!!

You can’t be a top 5-15 player and disappear like that

Even Murray 48p single game vs Boston is a not worthy separate thread... so your topic is moved here on the main thread about Jokic production.

But unfortunately, I must agree with you that this is some kind of issue which deserves our attention. Because of this is not one single game team's best player with great shooting skills intentionally refuse to try to score, but already 4th in the row he finished with under 10 points, in 3 out of them he has 5 or less FG attempt. In yesterday game we even have the case about 3 minutes left and tied result when he didn't shoot 2 seconds left for the attack, so Denver has unnecessarily a time violation turnover in very sensitive part of the game finish. Not that obvious, but still similar issue we have last November too, but he stops with that after Millsap injury and started to contribute team with points again.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#165 » by THE J0KER » Thu Nov 8, 2018 11:28 am

Personally, I have no idea what is going on with Jokic FG attempts. In last 10 games of last season, Jokic has over 19 FGA in average which resulted with a monster 25-12-7 production. In October (the first 7 games of this season), Jokic has 13.5 FGA per game, which is not 15+ I want to see, but still enough to be named WC player of the first week and to be in the conversation as NBA current best center. But once November started (in the last 4 games), Jokic takes only 4.5 FGA per game, less than any other out of 10 Nuggets players which played in November at least 3 minutes per game, except Torrey Craig (4.0 FGA).

Is Jokic is in conflict with Malone, and this is his way to protest? In that case, he is delusional that it will not affect the team results because he can't expect every opponent is weak as Cleveland, or always some teammate will play out of the blue as Murray did vs Celtics in 48pts game.

Is Jokic trying to pump-up confidence of teammates or whatever (with Malone approval) with intentionally limiting own scoring outcome? That would be childish, and except in Nurkic case, I never noticed ever that anyone in Denver have any problem with Jokic success. And which is worse, limited role in scoring not rise his passing impact but only damage it, because of opponents not afraid he will take shot and only focused on his passing increase number of Jokic turnovers and assists numbers stay the same. Jokic assists/turnovers in November are 7.8/3.8 while in October when he except passing trying also to score it is 7.1/2.7, far better ratio.

Without Jokic more scoring there are several problems which make Denver team worse. Jokic is a player with best TS% (true shooting percentage) out of all Denver starters already since his rookie year, so shots which others take instead Nikola is not that effective. We have already another starter which opponents defense does not take seriously in terms of shooting (Craig), so his shooting passivity makes life harder to the rest of starters. And I already mentioned how his famous passing efficiency is damaged when opponents see he is not going to score, so the number of intercepted passes rise.

I really don't know what is the reason for this, and which idea is it, Jokic or coach Malone, but it must be stopped as soon as possible. Our record is great at the moment, but why to lose momentum because some bizarre dumb experiment, and also, our schedule will never again be so friendly like in opening 15 games period of this season, so we must take full advantage from it.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#166 » by Mickey8 » Thu Nov 8, 2018 2:09 pm

Well he will have to start to score now, he's getting criticism from the media, his teammates , Grant Hill said the best on NBA TV the last night . He had similar stretches last season, after the talk with Millsap he started to play like the MVP candidate.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#167 » by THE J0KER » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:06 am

Two days ago in the game vs Pelicans, Nikola Jokic finally played 34+ minutes this season (34 minutes and 5 seconds).

According to the official NBA site, there is 162 different NBA players this season which over 700 times this season played more than 34 minutes and 5 seconds.

Why is coach Malone waiting every season middle of December to discover that he has in a team roster player named Nikola Jokic which he can use as a team's main force? Even in this DEN-NOP game where Jokic achieves season-high minutes, there were 5+ other players with a bigger playing time.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#168 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:32 pm

THE J0KER wrote:Two days ago in the game vs Pelicans, Nikola Jokic finally played 34+ minutes this season (34 minutes and 5 seconds).

According to the official NBA site, there is 162 different NBA players this season which over 700 times this season played more than 34 minutes and 5 seconds.

Why is coach Malone waiting every season middle of December to discover that he has in a team roster player named Nikola Jokic which he can use as a team's main force? Even in this DEN-NOP game where Jokic achieves season-high minutes, there were 5+ other players with a bigger playing time.

Maybe Malone's trying to make sure everyone knows who's in charge - and no, there is no green font involved in that statement.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#169 » by THE J0KER » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:15 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:Two days ago in the game vs Pelicans, Nikola Jokic finally played 34+ minutes this season (34 minutes and 5 seconds).

According to the official NBA site, there is 162 different NBA players this season which over 700 times this season played more than 34 minutes and 5 seconds.

Why is coach Malone waiting every season middle of December to discover that he has in a team roster player named Nikola Jokic which he can use as a team's main force? Even in this DEN-NOP game where Jokic achieves season-high minutes, there were 5+ other players with a bigger playing time.

Maybe Malone's trying to make sure everyone knows who's in charge - and no, there is no green font involved in that statement.
But thanks to that Malone's "Napoleon syndrome", out of game 48 minutes, Denver playing without franchise player Jokic about 20 minutes per game, while others WC contenders playing without their franchise players just about 10-12 minutes (Lebron, Davis, DeRozan, Lillard,j Harden, KAT, Durant...)
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#170 » by skywalker33 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:21 pm

THE J0KER wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:Two days ago in the game vs Pelicans, Nikola Jokic finally played 34+ minutes this season (34 minutes and 5 seconds).

According to the official NBA site, there is 162 different NBA players this season which over 700 times this season played more than 34 minutes and 5 seconds.

Why is coach Malone waiting every season middle of December to discover that he has in a team roster player named Nikola Jokic which he can use as a team's main force? Even in this DEN-NOP game where Jokic achieves season-high minutes, there were 5+ other players with a bigger playing time.

Maybe Malone's trying to make sure everyone knows who's in charge - and no, there is no green font involved in that statement.
But thanks to that Malone's "Napoleon syndrome", out of game 48 minutes, Denver playing without franchise player Jokic about 20 minutes per game, while others WC contenders playing without their franchise players just about 10-12 minutes (Lebron, Davis, DeRozan, Lillard,j Harden, KAT, Durant...)


Jokic has played an average of 29.68mpg, several games he had to sit because of foul trouble. He is still making those stupid reach out fouls, he averages 3.1 PF per game, are the fouls part of Malone's "Napolean Complex" ?? Also, does anyone think Jokic CAN play 38mpg on a consistent basis, his conditioning has not been something he's known for, even in Denver.

I love Jokic but you guys are trying to put him on this pedestal with part of that intention of putting blame on Malone, seems pathetic to me. :banghead:
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#171 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:30 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:Maybe Malone's trying to make sure everyone knows who's in charge - and no, there is no green font involved in that statement.
But thanks to that Malone's "Napoleon syndrome", out of game 48 minutes, Denver playing without franchise player Jokic about 20 minutes per game, while others WC contenders playing without their franchise players just about 10-12 minutes (Lebron, Davis, DeRozan, Lillard,j Harden, KAT, Durant...)

Jokic has played an average of 29.68mpg, several games he had to sit because of foul trouble. He is still making those stupid reach out fouls, he averages 3.1 PF per game, are the fouls part of Malone's "Napolean Complex" ?? Also, does anyone think Jokic CAN play 38mpg on a consistent basis, his conditioning has not been something he's known for, even in Denver.

I love Jokic but you guys are trying to put him on this pedestal with part of that intention of putting blame on Malone, seems pathetic to me. :banghead:

You are so right, but then again, many players are in better shape after they play 30+ mpg than when the season starts. As for Jokic's minutes, I'm just looking for 3 more mpg and that's not enough to worry about. It's more about when he sits. Sometimes, it's when he could help turn a game around. If he's averaging 3.1 fouls per game, then play him even when in foul trouble. Some players can play while in foul trouble and maybe, just maybe mind you, Jokic might stop making those stupid fouls. He seems to make those fouls at two times, when he's tired and when he's frustrated.

Actually, for the first time in his reign, Malone's rotations aren't a big deal for me.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#172 » by THE J0KER » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:36 am

Jokic received a bad reputation about fouls troubles in his rookie year when despite playing just about 20mpg he managed to be fouled out 3 times with 10+ games with 5 fouls. But since that, Jokic is fouled out only 3 times in 2016-17 and 2017-18 together combined (not once this season), and a number of games he gets 5th foul at some point are acceptable. I didn't say Jokic not doing silly fouls anymore, but that is not the big issue anymore, and for sure it is no excuse why his season-high so far is 34 minutes and 5 seconds. Yesterday he has one single foul but still played just 32 and half minutes, compared to 39 and half minutes played by opponent franchise player, Giannis Antetokounmpo.

Talking about Jokic conditioning, the only time he played a significant period of time like a real franchise player (playing time wise) is last season after the all-star game. In the last 25+ games of the 2017-18 season, Jokic averages 34.8mpg with 22-11-7 numbers, so he did not drop his per minute stats for sure, and played well being in that last part of previous season NBA #21 player by playing time. This season so far Jokic is not even one of 80 players which averaging 30+ mpg, nor one of 160+ players which season-high playing time was over 34:05. Don't tell me these facts are normal.

When last season I complained about the same issue (in October and November last season Jokic average playing time was also under 30mpg), I remember some pointed here that it is because of Jokic is young and playing the 3rd season under a rookie contract, and it is for his own good to playing limited minutes, despite team risking to be short in playoff race because that 'strategic' decision about Jokic. But now we see clearly that it was not the reason why Malone limited his minutes because the same we see at the start of this season when Jokic is a year experienced, playing under max contract, and Jamal Murray which is in a similar position like Nikola last year already played this season 10+ games 34+ mpg including 40+ mpg twice, with 33mpg average.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#173 » by skywalker33 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:04 am

Jokic has had 8 games this year where he's played under 30min, half of those games he had 4+ fouls.

As for his conditioning, you're equating it to being a franchise player and that is two separate dichotomies. And I agree he performed at an All-Star level the last 25+ games but could that be that he wasn't overworked during the rest of the season ?? Something to ponder there...And as you've pointed out, he's not one of 80 players to average 30+ mins a game, he's averaging 29.8mpg.....just trying to make your argument look better by .2 secs a game ???? How many mins do YOU need him to play, 35mpg ? 38mpg ...maybe 40+ ....what good is having a quality backup in Plumlee if you just want to burn out your starter ??

I've already gone on record saying Jokic should be getting 32-34 min per game but there are conditions that Jokic is bringing upon himself and I think it's a cop-out to just blame it all on Malone.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#174 » by The Rebel » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:18 am

Most teams would love to have the depth we have, where there is a more than capable backup in 1 spot let alone 4 spots like the Nuggets currently have. It keeps the starters healthier and fresher throughout the season, having backups like Plumlee, Morris, Lyles, and even Beasley/Juancho allows us to rest the guys more. I have watched enough young stars play 40 mpg and suddenly become very injury prone before they even reach full body maturity and never become the players they should have been so I appreciate them protecting the young stars. In a couple of years this kind of depth will be impossible to maintain but there is no reason not to take advantage of it now. It may add healthy years to the young guys careers.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#175 » by NuggetsWY » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:33 pm

I've always wanted to see Jokic take more shots, so I got to thinking about and wondered how many shots he should take. I think I've said something like 20 shots per game. That set me to thinking about Jokic's style of play. Who/what does he play like? Like a pure point guard (well, a 7 ft PG :lol: ). How good is he at point? Mighty fine is the obvious answer. 6.7 assists last year and 8.4 assists so far this year. For a center, that's rather spectacular. The next closest center this year is Anthony Davis at 4.9 and then Marc Gasol at 3.8. Davis takes nearly 20 shots per game while Gasol is around 10. Vlade Divac was considered a great passing center and his best season was 5.3 assists per game.

The top-3 all time assist leaders are Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, John Stockton and they all had 10+ assists per game for multiple seasons. Stockton never took more than 12 shots per game. Kidd reached 16 shots per game one season. Nash reached 13.6 shots per game.

If Jokic has the ball in his hands more and if the guards and forwards will move and cut and slash and run the baseline, he could easily average 10+ assists per game. If that happened, I'd be content with fewer shots but his 15 shots per game needs to go closer to 20 shots if he's not getting assists.

Look at it this way, each assist counts as 2 or 3 points, so does each made basket. If Stockton made just 8 shots per game while getting 12 assists per game, that totals 28 points per game. Jokic is averaging 7.4 2 pt shots made & 1.5 3 pt shots made along with 8.4 assists. That totals 36 points per game. So maybe, just maybe, my expectations regarding Jokic are a little high. :D He is indeed rather impressive and yet we expect more - or did I miss something?
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#176 » by KeithCozart » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:02 am

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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#177 » by NuggetsWY » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:02 pm

KeithCozart wrote:

Malone has always given great media appearances and this was one of his better. At the risk of sounding like a Malone-fan; he made a lot of great points in this one.

Spot-on regarding Jokic
and Murray
Love that he has sat Harris for a bit. I've always felt he played some players too much when they were dealing with injuries (yes, minor ones, but still ...)
Definitely worth watching.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#178 » by KeithCozart » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:42 pm

Maybe this is a wrong thread for Malone discussion but i have to say something about him.

Everyone, myself included were furious last season with some decisions he made and how he managed the team. This season story is different and different in a much better way and we as Nuggets supporters should give him a lot of credit for what he and players are doing this season. It's clear as day that he knows basketball a lot and he is starting to show it game in and game out, not a lot of coaches can do what he and his team is doing this season. If I'm correct he worked as deffensive coordinator earlier in his carrer and i always wondered how defensive minded coach can have mistakes that were made last season on that end of the floor. Now i realize that it wasn't all on him, players were confused and they were making a lot of mistakes last season. On the other hand, this season i watched a lot of other games besides Nuggets and i have to say that our team puts top5 effort in the league and that is a fact. We finally started playing hard and fighting for every ball like it's last. I like that and i will always support that mentality even if we lose.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#179 » by TunaFish » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:42 pm

Canned in Denver.
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Re: Jokic's production 

Post#180 » by _Joker » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:21 pm

If he's not an all-star this season then it's rigged

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