Trades - 2018 off-season - 2019 FA market

[NYG]

I feel like Denver could shop Porter Jr. and Isaiah Thomas for a win now piece that could help this season, but what does Denver need?

[NuggetsWY]

I feel like Denver could shop Porter Jr. and Isaiah Thomas for a win now piece that could help this season, but what does Denver need?

Not much - even with 3 starters out, they stayed in 1st place. A healthy Porzingis would be nice or maybe The Unibrow. How about a top-5 lottery pick? Nope, not joking. Most of the key pieces will be back and all we need is some playoff experience.

[skywalker33]

I feel like Denver could shop Porter Jr. and Isaiah Thomas for a win now piece that could help this season, but what does Denver need?

I could see trading IT but what value does he have right now ? And Porter is a future win-now piece, you don’t ransom your future if you’re a mid market team. Your idea sounds really short-sighted considering our core is not even in their prime yet ....

[KKP]

I would change Mareya to D-Roza, obviously the duo Jok-Mar does not complement so well and did not ...More would like to force the battle line of the line and running out of about 3, but enter in a more quiet pace ..So could you get another old guy Blake, if Monte and AT could be the level of Barton-Harris + would take more balls into the hands of MPJ and Vandrbilt had a more important role than a player from the scrum.

[The Rebel]

If you sign max with KP after trading Plumlee and not re-sign Millsap, you are in salary hell in 2021 when Murray, Beasley, and Juancho expiring at the same time. So, Barton must go also if we want to sign another max deal this summer.

Sorry, but no:
2020 luxury tax has been estimated at 143M.

Core 6 players payroll (Jokic, Harris, Barton, Morris, Mpj & Vanderbilt) is 68M.

Murray max salary would be 29.5M and KP second year cost 29M

143-68-29-29.5= 16M to renew Beasley & Juancho & additional fillers/vets

Once you lose Millsap and Plumlee (+IT) and sign only KP, you need another backup-C and to hold Lyles (or find another backup-PF). So, role player Barton $14M per season are clearly too big ballast for Nuggets cap with 3 max players.

You have Vanderbilt, Porter, Juancho, and likely Cancar that will all be able to back up PF all you need is one to prove to be a capable backup. Porter, Vnderbilt, and Cancar will all be on their 1st contracts in 2021.

A 3rd center can be had for the tax payer MLE and that is for a good one.

Yes this team will likely be tax payers in 2 years, whether they sign KP or someone else if they want to contend. The simple fact is if you can get a high quality young guy who has the ability to be the perfect fit with our young core you do it. This team could be a contender next year with a move like that, and would not be facing the repeater tax until 2023/2024. If Kroenkes won't pay the luxury tax for 2 years then they do not want a contender.

[The Rebel]

I feel like Denver could shop Porter Jr. and Isaiah Thomas for a win now piece that could help this season, but what does Denver need?

The one thing this front office has done for the last 5 years is be patient, trading MPJ for anything less than a top tier young talent is a waste of time. The only thing this team really needs is an enforcer type that will go out and place a hard foul or two on the opposing teams when guys start targeting our stars with bull.

Take last night for example, Holmes was grabbing and pushing Jokic to the point of drawing blood off a scratch, Plumlee committed a hard foul on Ayton, but Plumlee as our only real backup Center and overall just a nice guy is nt a true enforcer type. We need a guy at PF that can commit 6 hard fouls and if he fouls out we have depth to cover for him.

Other than that we have what is currently the 3rd youngest team in the league, we have had 188 games missed due to injury with 72 of those by starters and 113 by guys who were projected in our top 6 rotation this year, and we are still in 1st place in the western conference. A lot of our problems last night can be traced back to working guys back into the lineup and guys just not playing with energy, it happens and I am personally glad it happened against a young Suns team as opposed to a team fighting for the playoffs this year.

Reality is MPJ fits with long term needs, as does Vanderbilt, we do not need to trade either one. The guys we need to trade are redundant or bad fits. Guys like Lyles, Lydon, Thomas, and one of Barton/ Craig/ Beasley can all do, but I am not trading them just to trade them either. All outside of Lydon have proven that the can be rotation players on a very good team, no reason to give them away.

[The Rebel]

I would change Mareya to D-Roza, obviously the duo Jok-Mar does not complement so well and did not ...More would like to force the battle line of the line and running out of about 3, but enter in a more quiet pace ..So could you get another old guy Blake, if Monte and AT could be the level of Barton-Harris + would take more balls into the hands of MPJ and Vandrbilt had a more important role than a player from the scrum.

I am trying to decipher what you u are trying to say, so forgive me if I make a mistake.

Jokic and Millsap are an awkward fit on offense, but work very well on defense.

Long term the hope is that Vanderbilt or Cancar develop into our starting PF, but right now Cancar is still in Europe and Vanderbilt has an injury. MPJ is likely the starting SF in a couple of years, but will have to earn minutes over Juancho and whoever else we have at SF next year when he is healthy.

Monte I would say is better than Isiaih Thomas was last year, and I like how well Beasley has played and think that Monte and Beasley are a good back court off the bench for the next 18 months. I also think that Barton if he is going back to his old selfish ways needs to be traded as well. However there is nobody on this roster that can replace Harris on both ends. Harris is only slightly better on defense than Craig, and only slightly better than Barton on offense, but combined he is arguably our best 2 way player and still arguably our 2nd best overall player.

This team is basically on average 1 month older than the Suns roster is at the moment, there is no reason to go after Blake Griffin or anybody else that is not a perfect fit age and style wise to this team.

[KKP]

I use translation..I think Jokic-Muuray are not the dominants in the duo, and if the team moves back to the top, D-Rosa will be brought in, and in the summer I tried to bring Lillard or Griffin. This team is needed, , wild Barton to break the routine ....

[skywalker33]

I use translation..I think Jokic-Muuray are not the dominants in the duo, and if the team moves back to the top, D-Rosa will be brought in, and in the summer I tried to bring Lillard or Griffin. This team is needed, , wild Barton to break the routine ....

Murray is still very young and his game has yet to mature, Derozan is too old to fit with this core and Lillard or Griffin would cost too much.

[NuggetsWY]

and based on the last few posts, I'm hoping our team next year is what it is this year - perhaps Thomas chooses to leave, perhaps not.

Jokic-Plumlee
Millsap-Lyles-Lydon-Vanderbilt --- lots of fouls to use
Barton-Hernangomez-Craig-Porter (Cancar hopefully)
Harris-Beasley
Murray-Morris

Simply adding Vanderbilt & Porter to the rotation (how & how much & when will be the tough part) but that's looking very nice. Then, after next year, some decisions will need to be made.

[THE J0KER]

and based on the last few posts, I'm hoping our team next year is what it is this year - perhaps Thomas chooses to leave, perhaps not.

Jokic-Plumlee
Millsap-Lyles-Lydon-Vanderbilt --- lots of fouls to use
Barton-Hernangomez-Craig-Porter (Cancar hopefully)
Harris-Beasley
Murray-Morris

Simply adding Vanderbilt & Porter to the rotation (how & how much & when will be the tough part) but that's looking very nice. Then, after next year, some decisions will need to be made.

$30M for an aging veteran is way too much to activate team option. Something like 35/2 is the best what we can offer, but if some team offers 40/2, or longer 50/3 deal, we will lose Millsap. Talking about Barton, this summer will be the last opportunity to trade him as the starter of an elite team. I expecting already next season of MPJ to take that job and downgraded Barton will become a negative asset much harder to be traded, with a risk to become the next Faried/Chandler, an overpaid role player which seems worthy his salary the 1st year of new contract, but more and more losing that value every next year. Plumlee case only seems similar to Barton, in reality, it is much different. Simply, next season is expiring for Plumlee anyway, and also he is the only relevant backup center we still have, unlike on pg-sg-sf spots which cover Barton where we already have decent backup options for each.

[NuggetsWY]

and based on the last few posts, I'm hoping our team next year is what it is this year - perhaps Thomas chooses to leave, perhaps not.

Jokic-Plumlee
Millsap-Lyles-Lydon-Vanderbilt --- lots of fouls to use
Barton-Hernangomez-Craig-Porter (Cancar hopefully)
Harris-Beasley
Murray-Morris

Simply adding Vanderbilt & Porter to the rotation (how & how much & when will be the tough part) but that's looking very nice. Then, after next year, some decisions will need to be made.

$30M for an aging veteran is way too much to activate team option. Something like 35/2 is the best what we can offer, but if some team offers 40/2, or longer 50/3 deal, we will lose Millsap. Talking about Barton, this summer will be the last opportunity to trade him as the starter of an elite team. I expecting already next season of MPJ to take that job and downgraded Barton will become a negative asset much harder to be traded, with a risk to become the next Faried/Chandler, an overpaid role player which seems worthy his salary the 1st year of new contract, but more and more losing that value every next year. Plumlee case only seems similar to Barton, in reality, it is much different. Simply, next season is expiring for Plumlee, and also he is the only relevant backup center we still have, unlike on pg-sg-sf spots which cover Barton where we already have decent backup options for each.

Agree on Millsap, I still think we keep him, just exercise the team option. It seems unlikely that anyone else will pay him more than half of his salary and that's what we should probably target. If we lose him, I'm OK, but I think we can keep him.

I'm hopeful Barton plays team ball, he was started that way. But yeah, I think he should be traded while he has value but that's not the way the Nuggets have worked in the past. We let Gallinari walk and traded Chandler & Faried after letting everyone know we didn't think they had value (as you said).

I'd like to see Plumlee kept around but agree he's overpaid (or so it seems). We need a decent backup to Jokic and until we get a young player that gets a little development time, I don't object to Plumlee for 2-4 more years (at a reduced rate - maybe half?).

[skywalker33]

How about this trade ?

To SAC - Barton
To DEN - Giles + 2019 2nd (ORL pick)

SAC fills their SF need, DEN gets a cheap C/F to replace Lyles/Plumlee while getting some cap relief. Porter will replace Barton next year anyway, opens mins for Beasley.....

thoughts ??

[NuggetsWY]

How about this trade ?

To SAC - Barton
To DEN - Giles + 2019 2nd (ORL pick)

SAC fills their SF need, DEN gets a cheap C/F to replace Lyles/Plumlee while getting some cap relief. Porter will replace Barton next year anyway, opens mins for Beasley.....

thoughts ??

I like it for us and on the surface it looks good for the Kings but I doubt they'll agree. They seem fairly high on Giles (off and on). Should they do it? Hmmm, I don't know, maybe. I think if they were not giving up a pick and getting a 2nd instead, they just might do it.

[Manolito]

How about this trade ?

To SAC - Barton
To DEN - Giles + 2019 2nd (ORL pick)

SAC fills their SF need, DEN gets a cheap C/F to replace Lyles/Plumlee while getting some cap relief. Porter will replace Barton next year anyway, opens mins for Beasley.....

thoughts ??

IMHO, that trade has very little sense for SAC. They already have a defined backcourt (Fox, Hield & Bogdanovic), tons of cap and Giles is first round pick with upside. I don't see any interest for them to acquire Barton.

The only team who might be interested could be Orlando. Their backcourt ist really poor, they need a generator who could play ISO and they won't atract any interesting FA.

I would suggest Barton + Was 2rnd x Ross (expiring)

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[Manolito]

What do you guys think of Randle? He will be FA this season and I think his hustle and off ball offense could be helpful, and he just turned 24. Drawback is his spacing, he is not a good shooter but he has improved lately.

I would gladly give him all our cap space this summer. 50x3 contract would be great

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[NuggetsWY]

How about this trade ?

To SAC - Barton
To DEN - Giles + 2019 2nd (ORL pick)

SAC fills their SF need, DEN gets a cheap C/F to replace Lyles/Plumlee while getting some cap relief. Porter will replace Barton next year anyway, opens mins for Beasley.....

thoughts ??

IMHO, that trade has very little sense for SAC. They already have a defined backcourt (Fox, Hield & Bogdanovic), tons of cap and Giles is first round pick with upside. I don't see any interest for them to acquire Barton.

The only team who might be interested could be Orlando. Their backcourt ist really poor, they need a generator who could play ISO and they won't atract any interesting FA.

I would suggest Barton + Was 2rnd x Ross (expiring)

The idea was Barton as their SF, not in their backcourt.
The only reason I see for trading for Ross would be to let him sit on the bench behind Harris & Beasley. He's a SG, a nice one but certainly not a SF.

What do you guys think of Randle? He will be FA this season and I think his hustle and off ball offense could be helpful, and he just turned 24. Drawback is his spacing, he is not a good shooter but he has improved lately.

I would gladly give him all our cap space this summer. 50x3 contract would be great

Randle seems to have nice potential but he's not going to be a good fit because of the spacing issue you mentioned. So he'd be a poor fit next to Jokic, at least no better than Plumlee. That leaves me asking why spend so much money to acquire him?

Then again, I'm on record as believing we should maintain our current roster going into next year - so I'll be hard to persuade. Maybe someone else will be interested in Ross and/or Randle.

[Manolito]

How about this trade ?

To SAC - Barton
To DEN - Giles + 2019 2nd (ORL pick)

SAC fills their SF need, DEN gets a cheap C/F to replace Lyles/Plumlee while getting some cap relief. Porter will replace Barton next year anyway, opens mins for Beasley.....

thoughts ??

IMHO, that trade has very little sense for SAC. They already have a defined backcourt (Fox, Hield & Bogdanovic), tons of cap and Giles is first round pick with upside. I don't see any interest for them to acquire Barton.

The only team who might be interested could be Orlando. Their backcourt ist really poor, they need a generator who could play ISO and they won't atract any interesting FA.

I would suggest Barton + Was 2rnd x Ross (expiring)

The idea was Barton as their SF, not in their backcourt.
The only reason I see for trading for Ross would be to let him sit on the bench behind Harris & Beasley. He's a SG, a nice one but certainly not a SF.

What do you guys think of Randle? He will be FA this season and I think his hustle and off ball offense could be helpful, and he just turned 24. Drawback is his spacing, he is not a good shooter but he has improved lately.

I would gladly give him all our cap space this summer. 50x3 contract would be great

Randle seems to have nice potential but he's not going to be a good fit because of the spacing issue you mentioned. So he'd be a poor fit next to Jokic, at least no better than Plumlee. That leaves me asking why spend so much money to acquire him?

Then again, I'm on record as believing we should maintain our current roster going into next year - so I'll be hard to persuade. Maybe someone else will be interested in Ross and/or Randle.

Sorry, with backcourt I meant PG-SG-SF (that is how we describe it in Europe)

With those three guys, Barton is not interesting for SAC, his contract makes him a negative asset.

I simply consider trading for Ross because he is an expiring. He would help us during Play Off this season and in summer we clear his salary off the books, allowing us to offer a max contract to KP. No interest in Ross long term.

Randle has also sort of high usage, but he has improved every single season and is still very young. We need a PF for the project and there are not many candidates out there, specially for a small market like Denver.

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[NuggetsWY]

[

Spoiler:

quote="NuggetsWY"][quote="Manolito"]IMHO, that trade has very little sense for SAC. They already have a defined backcourt (Fox, Hield & Bogdanovic), tons of cap and Giles is first round pick with upside. I don't see any interest for them to acquire Barton.

The only team who might be interested could be Orlando. Their backcourt ist really poor, they need a generator who could play ISO and they won't atract any interesting FA.

I would suggest Barton + Was 2rnd x Ross (expiring)[/quote]
The idea was Barton as their SF, not in their backcourt.
The only reason I see for trading for Ross would be to let him sit on the bench behind Harris & Beasley. He's a SG, a nice one but certainly not a SF.
[quote="Manolito"]What do you guys think of Randle? He will be FA this season and I think his hustle and off ball offense could be helpful, and he just turned 24. Drawback is his spacing, he is not a good shooter but he has improved lately.

I would gladly give him all our cap space this summer. 50x3 contract would be great[/quote]
Randle seems to have nice potential but he's not going to be a good fit because of the spacing issue you mentioned. So he'd be a poor fit next to Jokic, at least no better than Plumlee. That leaves me asking why spend so much money to acquire him?

Then again, I'm on record as believing we should maintain our current roster going into next year - so I'll be hard to persuade. Maybe someone else will be interested in Ross and/or Randle.[/quote]

Sorry, with backcourt I meant PG-SG-SF (that is how we describe it in Europe)

With those three guys, Barton is not interesting for SAC, his contract makes him a negative asset.

I simply consider trading for Ross because he is an expiring. He would help us during Play Off this season and in summer we clear his salary off the books, allowing us to offer a max contract to KP. No interest in Ross long term.

Randle has also sort of high usage, but he has improved every single season and is still very young. We need a PF for the project and there are not many candidates out there, specially for a small market like Denver.[/quote]

Ah yes, I forgot about the difference in Europe. It isn't really that big of a difference and I considered Ross at SF for a moment but in the NBA, most teams look for a little more rebounding and physical play at SF. However, Barton is very similar to Ross, so I understand where you are coming from on that one. Malone likes to go with three guards and truthfully it's worked for us lately, at least for short periods of time. But I just think Ross would get very little playing time with all the depth we have.

Since Denver isn't a team looking for low-post play from anyone except their center, I just don't like the Randle fit at all. Our PF next year looks like Millsap (maybe) with Lyles, Lydon, Vanderbilt fighting for minutes plus Hernangomez, Porter, and Cancar (possibly) could all see some minutes there. That's why I'm satisfied. I'm not sure who works out as our forwards in 2 or 3 years but we have enough bodies to hope for someone to work out. Unless of course we can get Anthony Davis or Porzingis or someone like that.

[skywalker33]

With those three guys, Barton is not interesting for SAC, his contract makes him a negative asset.

Goto to strongly disagee that SAC wouldn't have interest for the Kings, go over to the SAC or TnT boards you'll find most SAC fans are BEGGING for a SF and Barton is a good one. While I think his salary AS A BACKUP would be a problem, his $11M as a starter is quite reasonable (about 9% of the cap). Also, he is very versatile as he can play SF/SG/PG as he's done for us before. Now Giles may be looked at higher value to the KIngs, I could go towards that end but he isn't starting, is 6'10" and that's a bit small to start at C, and he'd be a backup behind Bagley at PF...those were my thoughts. Which has more value to the Kings, a starting SF or a backup PF ??

If they thought so highly of Giles, why did they select Bagley over Doncic, who looks like a premier SF for the next 15 years ???