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Arturas Karnisovas

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Re: Arturas Karnisovas 

Post#21 » by skywalker33 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:59 pm

The Rebel wrote:This year instead of Nurkic, we have Beasley, Juancho, Morris, and Lydon that are buried on the bench by their moves. Every day that those guys are not used they lose value, and while we may not have to give up a draft pick to move one right now, we will get back than what their production should be worth if they were allowed to play.


Sorry Rebel, the Nurkic situation is nothing like the situation for the four players. Nurkic turned into a spoiled brat because he was being outplayed and benched because of it. Beasley and Lydon proved in SL they aren’t ready to play big mins, they may have to be moved anyway without more improvement . Juancho is coming off illness so he’s got to prove himself as well, with players in front of you you have to be able to prove yourself.
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Re: Arturas Karnisovas 

Post#22 » by Richard Miller » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:45 pm

The Rebel wrote:
Richard Miller wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
I literally said that they brought in Thomas instead of a guy with little skill left, so maybe you should read it again.


Yea, my bad, however the rest is not of concern, if he falls off the cliff a year or two later, his contract is only a year so cares. Who else was available anyway? I read the rumors about Tony Parker, but he too is even bigger injury concern and in the end didn't come anyway.


My point with Thomas isn't that they signed him, it is that they have Morris doing everything he can to make the team and that the front office raves about, that is now without minutes. Between signing Barton, Craig, and Thomas they basically guaranteed that beasley is not going to get minutes. So why not trade Beasley at least? If you believe in the young guys why continue to bury them? If you don't believe in them and they still have value than why not trade them and keep some of the picks we just gave up?


Well, maybe they did try to shop them around and didn't get any takers, we can't be sure of that. IT is signed only for 1 yr and it's unsure how much he will be able to actually play, so even in the best case scenario I don't think he will be getting too many minutes.
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Re: Arturas Karnisovas 

Post#23 » by The Rebel » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:07 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
Spoiler:
The Rebel wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:If Karnisovas made a difference, we can not blame him for previous mistakes. Plus, do not forget, he is just the GM and Connelly and Kroenke made it clear they were Barton fans. Perhaps Karnisovas finally convinced them to move Chandler, Arthur, Faried - which should have been done 2 or 3 or even 4 years ago. I don't mind the salary dumps. Paying the tax for a non-contending team is smart. They could finish very high but the Nuggets seem likely to have homecourt advantage in round 1 as their highest target (with a first round win).


So wait he gets a pass because his title changed? Sorry but Connelly and Karnisovas got different titles and raises last summer so AK would not take the Bucks job, but nothing in the chain of command has changed.

You can choose to give anybody you want credit for the salary dumps, but I do not give any of them credit for those dumps. In fact that is something I hold against all of them. They dumped contracts that they signed to avoid the luxury tax, not for some roster balancing crap like you and the Nuggets are trying to spin it. I would have been much happier if instead of dumping salary they got creative and dumped salary while picking up players we need to fill gaps. I would much rather have walked away this summer with George Hill than Isaiah thomas, but it would have cost some young players that don't play. I would have rather given up a pick to flip Plumlee for a guy like Koufos instead of paying to dump Arthur and Faried for cap space. Insted of signing Barton to a big deal, I would have rather signed a placeholder and used his cap space to get a guy who is a long term 6th man. We might not get all the way out of the luxury tax but it would have cleared the cap for next summer and given us real room to build the team around the young core.
NuggetsWY wrote:I have made it clear that I am in favor of playing our young players more. I do not object to adding Thomas. I have not objected to adding Miller and Jefferson - and most of the other veterans. My objection continues to be Malone's preference to overuse veterans at the cost of developing young players. My objection has been and will continue to be Malone's rotations and his unwillingness to use a Jokic-centric offense and his pathetic approach to defense.


Malone has developed Murray, Jokic, Harris, Lyles and Juancho have shown promise but Juancho was sick and Lyles defense was terrible. They drafted 2 more forwards, while neither are likely to play this year, they added 2 more forwards in the draft. They resigned Craig and started pushing the idea that he can play SG and signed Thomas. What that all tells me is that for one reason or another they do not like Beasley and Lyles at a minimum and possibly Juancho, whether it is lack of talent, work ethic, or attitude I do not know but their moves show their thinking.

Signing Thomas and Craig I would say that relates directly into how they feel about Beasley's long term prognosis with this team. Beasley was supposed to be a 2 way player that can score and be a capable defender. He has shown glimpses as both, yet they bring in a score 1st, 2nd, and 3rd PG and resign a defensive specialist to play at backup SG, while ignoring their chance to sign Morris who they are reportedly very high on. They must not be too high on Beasley right now.

I understand draft Porter JR, he would have been in the running for 1st overall without the injury, you have to take that risk unless you get a godfather offer. I could understand if Vanderbilt had fallen to them and they took him, but instead they moved up using 2 2nd round picks to draft the guy and then signed him to a 3 year deal as soon as they could. So what does that say about Lyles? We now have 2 young PFs well as Juancho on the depth chart behind Lyles, and a young Sf sitting behind Craig and Juancho while promising the starting job to Barton so what does that say about Juancho?

We gave up future picks to dump salary, yet we have at least 2 guys that they do not view as the long term answer for this team in Beasley and Lyles, so why the picks and not the 2 players? Lyles proved he could be very productive last year, reports said that he had much more value than we gave for him, Juancho would be fine backing up both forward spots for the likely 10 mpg at each. They have signed guys to ensure that Beasley is not really used, so why is he still here is he not even worth a 2nd round pick? The only answer that makes sense is that the front office has said screw the future we have to make the playoffs, and are doing it to the detriment to the long term health of this team. So sorry I am not going to praise any of them right now, everything they did was short sighted and has shown that they still have the same issues that they have since Connelly and Arturas were brought in 5 years ago.

If they were developing young players, they would have found more PT for Beasley and they would have brought Morris in for more two-way NBA time. The brought Craig up and were less desperate for SF than for PG - where they brought in D.Harris. If they don't like Beasley, then get rid of him while he still holds value, unlike what they did with Faried, Gallinari, Arthur, Chandler - all of whom should have been traded last year or before.

No, I am not giving anyone a free pass on the stupidity of some of their decisions. What I am saying is they have somewhat moved in a better direction - although the Barton contract is almost as bad as the Plumlee contract. But either of those is fine, if the coach uses them correctly IMO.


That is exactly my point, we are handing over bad contracts, we are wasting assets, all in the name of pushing to make the playoffs. We have 1 franchise player, we have 2 future all stars, if Porter is healthy we have a 2nd franchise player, we are going to need cheap contributors long term, yet we are spending money and draft picks like idiots while ignoring the assets we have on the bench that are worthless in 2 years.
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Re: Arturas Karnisovas 

Post#24 » by The Rebel » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:18 am

skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:This year instead of Nurkic, we have Beasley, Juancho, Morris, and Lydon that are buried on the bench by their moves. Every day that those guys are not used they lose value, and while we may not have to give up a draft pick to move one right now, we will get back than what their production should be worth if they were allowed to play.


Sorry Rebel, the Nurkic situation is nothing like the situation for the four players. Nurkic turned into a spoiled brat because he was being outplayed and benched because of it. Beasley and Lydon proved in SL they aren’t ready to play big mins, they may have to be moved anyway without more improvement . Juancho is coming off illness so he’s got to prove himself as well, with players in front of you you have to be able to prove yourself.


I agree and that is one of my points, everyday these guys are sitting on the bench they are losing value. No it is not as bad as Nurkic, but it isn't good. If by year 3 they don't feel comfortable giving the job to Beasley than it is time to move him. If you don't think that Lyles is the long term starter at PF, then trade him as he expires a year from now. We gave up picks to dump bad contracts that they signed, with the front office reportedly refusing to include the young players, while the young players lose value. With the Barton and Plumlee signing we do not have max cap space next year, drafting Porter we could have a contender on our hands, but no money. We need those future rookie deals more than we need guys that they have no faith in.
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Re: Arturas Karnisovas 

Post#25 » by skywalker33 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:10 am

The Rebel wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:This year instead of Nurkic, we have Beasley, Juancho, Morris, and Lydon that are buried on the bench by their moves. Every day that those guys are not used they lose value, and while we may not have to give up a draft pick to move one right now, we will get back than what their production should be worth if they were allowed to play.


Sorry Rebel, the Nurkic situation is nothing like the situation for the four players. Nurkic turned into a spoiled brat because he was being outplayed and benched because of it. Beasley and Lydon proved in SL they aren’t ready to play big mins, they may have to be moved anyway without more improvement . Juancho is coming off illness so he’s got to prove himself as well, with players in front of you you have to be able to prove yourself.


I agree and that is one of my points, everyday these guys are sitting on the bench they are losing value. No it is not as bad as Nurkic, but it isn't good. If by year 3 they don't feel comfortable giving the job to Beasley than it is time to move him. If you don't think that Lyles is the long term starter at PF, then trade him as he expires a year from now. We gave up picks to dump bad contracts that they signed, with the front office reportedly refusing to include the young players, while the young players lose value. With the Barton and Plumlee signing we do not have max cap space next year, drafting Porter we could have a contender on our hands, but no money. We need those future rookie deals more than we need guys that they have no faith in.


I do agree with the idea of not holding onto players because they are losing value, especially with this Nuggets FO. However, the value were losing is "trade" value which can be recouped with good play. One injury can help display and increase value if they can play up to what the FO is (anticipation here) seeing, the only reason I can foresee them not trading them. I can also guess they Nugget FO might be overvaluing them or they're getting offered low values or both. But better to have that potential talent on the bench that is believed in rather than to own future picks and lesser replacement talent that can't perform when needed. We're not far from the same idea, just taking differnt avenues
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Re: Arturas Karnisovas 

Post#26 » by The Rebel » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:00 am

Richard Miller wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
Richard Miller wrote:
Yea, my bad, however the rest is not of concern, if he falls off the cliff a year or two later, his contract is only a year so cares. Who else was available anyway? I read the rumors about Tony Parker, but he too is even bigger injury concern and in the end didn't come anyway.


My point with Thomas isn't that they signed him, it is that they have Morris doing everything he can to make the team and that the front office raves about, that is now without minutes. Between signing Barton, Craig, and Thomas they basically guaranteed that beasley is not going to get minutes. So why not trade Beasley at least? If you believe in the young guys why continue to bury them? If you don't believe in them and they still have value than why not trade them and keep some of the picks we just gave up?


Well, maybe they did try to shop them around and didn't get any takers, we can't be sure of that. IT is signed only for 1 yr and it's unsure how much he will be able to actually play, so even in the best case scenario I don't think he will be getting too many minutes.


You could be right and the front office has the media spinning the idea that they really wanted to keep the young bench guys, but judging by all reports I am seeing and reading that does not appear to be the case. I mean if a guy like Beasley who we drafted in the 1st round 2 years ago is not worth the same as a future 2nd 3 years from now, then why is he still even on the roster? Why pick up his option? All the reports said that Lyles has significantly more value now than we gave up for him why not drop him and grab a pick? We can pick up a backup 4th big to be a placeholder for a year for cheap and still have the capability to add players later.
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Re: Arturas Karnisovas 

Post#27 » by The Rebel » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:27 am

skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Sorry Rebel, the Nurkic situation is nothing like the situation for the four players. Nurkic turned into a spoiled brat because he was being outplayed and benched because of it. Beasley and Lydon proved in SL they aren’t ready to play big mins, they may have to be moved anyway without more improvement . Juancho is coming off illness so he’s got to prove himself as well, with players in front of you you have to be able to prove yourself.


I agree and that is one of my points, everyday these guys are sitting on the bench they are losing value. No it is not as bad as Nurkic, but it isn't good. If by year 3 they don't feel comfortable giving the job to Beasley than it is time to move him. If you don't think that Lyles is the long term starter at PF, then trade him as he expires a year from now. We gave up picks to dump bad contracts that they signed, with the front office reportedly refusing to include the young players, while the young players lose value. With the Barton and Plumlee signing we do not have max cap space next year, drafting Porter we could have a contender on our hands, but no money. We need those future rookie deals more than we need guys that they have no faith in.


I do agree with the idea of not holding onto players because they are losing value, especially with this Nuggets FO. However, the value were losing is "trade" value which can be recouped with good play. One injury can help display and increase value if they can play up to what the FO is (anticipation here) seeing, the only reason I can foresee them not trading them. I can also guess they Nugget FO might be overvaluing them or they're getting offered low values or both. But better to have that potential talent on the bench that is believed in rather than to own future picks and lesser replacement talent that can't perform when needed. We're not far from the same idea, just taking differnt avenues



Realistically Beasley is going to have to outplay Isaiah Thomas, Torey Craig, Morris, and Hernangomez (if he plays well enough I can see Barton sliding to backup SG at time to give him minutes). He has had very few minutes of in game development time, I do not see him being able to beat more experienced guys right now. So why keep him? Sorry but a handful of games where he might get 15 mpg is not going to change the fact that shooters struggle when getting spot minutes and he is unlikely to improve his value based on the situation. Hell we could dump him and sign a guy like Richard Jefferson for another year for all it really matters, guys like that can still play a suitable 3rd string role at a high level for a week or two. So why not move Beasley to a team that needs a SG and save ourselves a 2nd round pick or 2?

For Lydon to get minutes Millsap is going to have to have another injury or he will have to beat out both Juancho and Lyles. To me the issue is that Lydon has not really even been on an NBA court yet, but you also drafted 2 more forwards who can or will play PF, so when does his development time come? If the plan is to keep him as the 5th/6th big, then why not move him for a future asset now and get an old veteran to fill the slot for a year while we wait on the rookies?

If you plan on Lyles being the long term starter why draft 2 more guys at his position? Now if the plan is to move on from Lyles at some point, than why not do it now? A 4th big can be picked up cheap right now and you can let Lydon and Juancho compete against that guy, while walking away with a 1st. Short term your 4th big is not going to win many games, and long term you pick up an asset for a guy who is going to be gone in a year anyway.

I just do not understand the thinking of keeping too many young guys that need time we don't have to develop while giving up future picks to clear money. Anybody that is reasonable knows that 2 years from now when Murray signs his extension Jokic/ Murray/ Harris/ and Barton are likely going to be taking up 85% of the cap, which means there is not going to be much money left over for our 4th/5th starters and our bench. Add in having to extend Juancho and possibly Lyles and we are likely over the cap. Now if MPJ and Vanderbilt work out to perfection we will be fine but if they don't we will be struggling to find contributors for the prices we will be able to pay.
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Re: Arturas Karnisovas 

Post#28 » by THE J0KER » Fri Sep 7, 2018 3:02 pm

NBA Rumors: Nuggets GM Arturas Karnisovas Turned Down 76ers Interview

Denver Nuggets general manager Arturas Karnisovas reportedly turned down an opportunity to interview for the same position with the Philadelphia 76ers.

Per Keith Pompey of the Philadelphia Inquirer, Karnisovas' interview with the Sixers was supposed to take place this week before he decided to remain with the Nuggets.

...
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Re: Arturas Karnisovas 

Post#29 » by skywalker33 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:35 pm

AK is a sought after commodity, this was the 2nd or 3rd time another team has looked to hire him (BKN & MIL). Nice to see the teams loyalty has been returned in kind.
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Re: Arturas Karnisovas 

Post#30 » by THE J0KER » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:45 pm

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