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Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor

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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#21 » by skywalker33 » Sun Nov 8, 2020 8:52 pm

Guess the question is now, what can we get for him ? Feels like we can get a decent replacement at #22, can we get a 2021 1st ?? will he be a piece to a Jrue trade ?
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#22 » by The Rebel » Mon Nov 9, 2020 10:09 pm

skywalker33 wrote:Guess the question is now, what can we get for him ? Feels like we can get a decent replacement at #22, can we get a 2021 1st ?? will he be a piece to a Jrue trade ?


I think with Dozier and a good backup SG we could be fine with trading Morris. I think we can get a decent youngish bench player and pick for him and would rather go that way as opposed to trading for Jrue.
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#23 » by skywalker33 » Mon Nov 9, 2020 10:56 pm

The Rebel wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:Guess the question is now, what can we get for him ? Feels like we can get a decent replacement at #22, can we get a 2021 1st ?? will he be a piece to a Jrue trade ?


I think with Dozier and a good backup SG we could be fine with trading Morris. I think we can get a decent youngish bench player and pick for him and would rather go that way as opposed to trading for Jrue.


I agree. As much as Jrue could be the difference, we still need to look to the future. Jrue is paid a ton of money, how many 8-digit players can we have ?? And no telling what Jrue would want on his next contract, if it's anywhere close to what he's getting now we'll never be able to look at free agency.
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#24 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:42 am

skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:Guess the question is now, what can we get for him ? Feels like we can get a decent replacement at #22, can we get a 2021 1st ?? will he be a piece to a Jrue trade ?

I think with Dozier and a good backup SG we could be fine with trading Morris. I think we can get a decent youngish bench player and pick for him and would rather go that way as opposed to trading for Jrue.

I agree. As much as Jrue could be the difference, we still need to look to the future. Jrue is paid a ton of money, how many 8-digit players can we have ?? And no telling what Jrue would want on his next contract, if it's anywhere close to what he's getting now we'll never be able to look at free agency.

I seriously doubt Jrue expects the same salary next contract - although there is no doubt he'd love it. :wink: You know that teams and players have those secret agreements all of the time. :lol: Let's hope they can figure it out.
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#25 » by The Rebel » Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:10 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:I think with Dozier and a good backup SG we could be fine with trading Morris. I think we can get a decent youngish bench player and pick for him and would rather go that way as opposed to trading for Jrue.

I agree. As much as Jrue could be the difference, we still need to look to the future. Jrue is paid a ton of money, how many 8-digit players can we have ?? And no telling what Jrue would want on his next contract, if it's anywhere close to what he's getting now we'll never be able to look at free agency.

I seriously doubt Jrue expects the same salary next contract - although there is no doubt he'd love it. :wink: You know that teams and players have those secret agreements all of the time. :lol: Let's hope they can figure it out.


Whether he expects it or not, I am not sure he is the difference maker for this team that everybody else is. We need defense and shooting at the 2, Jrue is not a better defender than Harris and his shooting is very erratic with him shooting 32.5% in 2018-2019 on 3s. Also I would love to see MPJ get the touches Jrue will take from Murray and Jokic. While he may make rookie mistakes early in the season, I think it will help us when we get to the playoffs.

We didn't lose against the Lakers because of Murray, Jokic, MPJ, or Harris. We lost because despite his great defense, Millsap was just clearly outplayed. Plumlee was clearly overmatched, it wasn't even close when Jokic was out of the game. The Lakers would just collapse the paint and dare our bench to try to shoot it, and we couldn't.

We need a bench scorer in the worst way especially one that can shoot, we need a bruiser in the paint that won't put up with guys harassing Jokic and Murray if he can hit a mid range shot at least and play defense we are a true contender. We need a bench guard defender, someone who can slow down guys like Clarkson, and we need him to at least be able to hit a mid range shot.

Jokic, Murray, and MPJ are our stars, they even fit together with MPJ being the cocky ass, Murray being the emotional leader, and Jokic's competitiveness. We have a guy that should have been on an all defense team in Harris. Those guys aren't the problem. The fit around them is the problem.

I like Morris, and I think he is a damn good player, but the question is can we keep him and take the next step? He is the game general type of PG, he plays best with better players. He knows offensively how to do what the team needs, but he is not a good enough scorer to take over games. He also is just not able to defend anything but PG.

I also think that Dozier is just fine as a long term answer at backup PG. A hustle guy that can come in and give you 15 minutes of pure energy and effort. He is good enough at creating shots and shooting to be effective and he looked like a solid defender at PG. That is all we really need.

People forget that while Morris was an older rookie, he is still just coming off his 3rd year and is only 25 years old. He is elite already as a spot up shooter and the midrange shot, he plays well on and off the ball, and he doesn't turn the ball over at all. If Murray or Morris could play defense against guys like Mitchell than I would have no problem giving him slightly more than the full MLE, but they can't so we have to trade him.

Let's look at suitors. He would work best playing PG with a ball dominate star like Simmons, Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis, Doncic, or even a pseudo star like Lavine, INgram, or Sabonis. That is 8 teams that he would be a great fit for what they need and being the near perfect starter for about half of them.

Would the 76ers give Thybulle and their 22nd pick if they don't use them to salary dump?

Would the Bucks give up DiVincenzo and the 24th? Would you take that?

Would the Mavs do Willie Cauley Stein and the 18th for him?

Could you get Gafford, Hutchinson, and the 44th for him?

I look at it that we can trade Morris for a couple of young guys who look like they will be good role players long term. Guys who you already know what we can get. We can add him to Harris or Barton and get a really good player, but I am not sure that is the answer as our bench will still be terrible with limited money to fix it. I prefer the former with a pick that we can develop into another guy down the road.
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#26 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:45 pm

The Rebel wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:I agree. As much as Jrue could be the difference, we still need to look to the future. Jrue is paid a ton of money, how many 8-digit players can we have ?? And no telling what Jrue would want on his next contract, if it's anywhere close to what he's getting now we'll never be able to look at free agency.

I seriously doubt Jrue expects the same salary next contract - although there is no doubt he'd love it. :wink: You know that teams and players have those secret agreements all of the time. :lol: Let's hope they can figure it out.


Whether he expects it or not, I am not sure he is the difference maker for this team that everybody else is. We need defense and shooting at the 2, Jrue is not a better defender than Harris and his shooting is very erratic with him shooting 32.5% in 2018-2019 on 3s. Also I would love to see MPJ get the touches Jrue will take from Murray and Jokic. While he may make rookie mistakes early in the season, I think it will help us when we get to the playoffs.

We didn't lose against the Lakers because of Murray, Jokic, MPJ, or Harris. We lost because despite his great defense, Millsap was just clearly outplayed. Plumlee was clearly overmatched, it wasn't even close when Jokic was out of the game. The Lakers would just collapse the paint and dare our bench to try to shoot it, and we couldn't.

We need a bench scorer in the worst way especially one that can shoot, we need a bruiser in the paint that won't put up with guys harassing Jokic and Murray if he can hit a mid range shot at least and play defense we are a true contender. We need a bench guard defender, someone who can slow down guys like Clarkson, and we need him to at least be able to hit a mid range shot.

Jokic, Murray, and MPJ are our stars, they even fit together with MPJ being the cocky ass, Murray being the emotional leader, and Jokic's competitiveness. We have a guy that should have been on an all defense team in Harris. Those guys aren't the problem. The fit around them is the problem.

I like Morris, and I think he is a damn good player, but the question is can we keep him and take the next step? He is the game general type of PG, he plays best with better players. He knows offensively how to do what the team needs, but he is not a good enough scorer to take over games. He also is just not able to defend anything but PG.

I also think that Dozier is just fine as a long term answer at backup PG. A hustle guy that can come in and give you 15 minutes of pure energy and effort. He is good enough at creating shots and shooting to be effective and he looked like a solid defender at PG. That is all we really need.

People forget that while Morris was an older rookie, he is still just coming off his 3rd year and is only 25 years old. He is elite already as a spot up shooter and the midrange shot, he plays well on and off the ball, and he doesn't turn the ball over at all. If Murray or Morris could play defense against guys like Mitchell than I would have no problem giving him slightly more than the full MLE, but they can't so we have to trade him.

Let's look at suitors. He would work best playing PG with a ball dominate star like Simmons, Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis, Doncic, or even a pseudo star like Lavine, INgram, or Sabonis. That is 8 teams that he would be a great fit for what they need and being the near perfect starter for about half of them.

I agree with what you are saying!
The Rebel wrote:Would the 76ers give Thybulle and their 22nd pick if they don't use them to salary dump?
#21 is their pick and yes, I'd probably make that deal, but I'm not a big fan of Thybulle.
The Rebel wrote:Would the Bucks give up DiVincenzo and the 24th? Would you take that?
Probably would, but not a big fan of DiVincenzo.
The Rebel wrote:Would the Mavs do Willie Cauley Stein and the 18th for him?
Absolutely would make this deal. I'm not a big fan of Cauley-Stein but he'd be an acceptable backup center IMO.
The Rebel wrote:Could you get Gafford, Hutchinson, and the 44th for him?
I don't think I'd do this deal. Gafford doesn't seem like a good fit in Denver and Hutchinson doesn't impress me as more than a deep bench player. Morris is worth more than this.
The Rebel wrote:I look at it that we can trade Morris for a couple of young guys who look like they will be good role players long term. Guys who you already know what we can get. We can add him to Harris or Barton and get a really good player, but I am not sure that is the answer as our bench will still be terrible with limited money to fix it. I prefer the former with a pick that we can develop into another guy down the road.

I'm more of a fan of this idea, adding him to Harris or Barton to get a player that's going to play 15-25 mpg.

I think our bench can be filled in with veteran minimum players and/or young players that appear unlikely to ever start - but who knows, we've picked up a couple of good players with 2nd round picks. :D

Assuming we re-sign Grant and no one else,
Starters: Jokic - Grant - Porter - Harris - Murray
Bench: Barton as the lead bench scorer - leader of the bench period
....... Morris at PG
....... Dozier at PG/SG
....... Bates-Diop at SF
....... Cancar at PF
....... ??? at center

Our bench, with no changes, is fine at guard and somewhat okay at small forward.
I'm concerned about center & power forward off the bench.
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#27 » by THE J0KER » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:07 pm

Morris is pure gold for this team considering we pay elite PG-TS% efficiency and league-best AST/TO efficiency for less than $2M. But once he signs a 20/3 deal which he deserves we can start thinking about some other options. His defense is bad, but that is a big problem only against teams which offense is based on a superb backcourt line which we see in the 2020 playoff vs Utah or in 2019 vs Portland. If we trade Barton and Harris to get Jrue Holiday, I think we more need 1st backup backcourt option which is more SG than PG.
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#28 » by TunaFish » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:43 am

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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#29 » by skywalker33 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:45 am

TunaFish wrote:
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I like Morris but don't see that happening here
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#30 » by The Rebel » Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:23 am

skywalker33 wrote:
TunaFish wrote:
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I like Morris but don't see that happening here


I agree it isn't happening here, but I can see him getting a deal like that. There are just too many teams where he can start, and we cannot afford to give him starter money.
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#31 » by The Rebel » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:12 am

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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#32 » by _Joker » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:08 pm

Really hope we can keep him.
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#33 » by DaFan334 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:24 pm

Some money has opened up and he is capable of playing enough 2 that they might run more dual point guard lineups. While normally I would say he could start on a lot of teams, I found it hard to find that many with all the talented point guards in the league. The market for him wouldn't be that big.
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#34 » by The Rebel » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:52 pm

DaFan334 wrote:Some money has opened up and he is capable of playing enough 2 that they might run more dual point guard lineups. While normally I would say he could start on a lot of teams, I found it hard to find that many with all the talented point guards in the league. The market for him wouldn't be that big.

In a league where Kris Dunn is getting $5 million a year and Rondo signed for $7.5 a year, there is going to be a large market for Morris.

Off the top of my head he would be an upgrade at PG for the Bulls, 76ers, Bucks, Clippers, Magic, and Mavs. That is 20% of the league without thinking about it too hard.
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#35 » by TunaFish » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:50 am

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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#36 » by Hype97 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:40 pm

Any changes on Morris' availability with the additions of Hampton and Campazzo?
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#37 » by The Rebel » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:08 pm

Hype97 wrote:Any changes on Morris' availability with the additions of Hampton and Campazzo?



You would think so, but the rumor is they are trying to extend him. Personally I would trade him for a bench defensive SF and a bench big, but that is just me.
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#38 » by skywalker33 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:03 pm

Hype97 wrote:Any changes on Morris' availability with the additions of Hampton and Campazzo?


Guess that all depends on 2 thing:

1. How well Campazzo does in the NBA

2. What teams are willing to offer.

It's my belief he will get traded by the deadline, maybe even some time in training camp. He has value around the league, I'd personally like to see us trade for a backup C and 1st next year or to replace the one in 2023 we traded.
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Re: Monte Morris: a Denver Nuggets X-Factor 

Post#39 » by stoo » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:14 am

skywalker33 wrote:
Hype97 wrote:Any changes on Morris' availability with the additions of Hampton and Campazzo?


Guess that all depends on 2 thing:

1. How well Campazzo does in the NBA

2. What teams are willing to offer.

It's my belief he will get traded by the deadline, maybe even some time in training camp. He has value around the league, I'd personally like to see us trade for a backup C and 1st next year or to replace the one in 2023 we traded.


We got Hartenstein (after u've written this probably) and I'm fine with him

Monte really is kind of x factor. If he stays, our pg lineup is way more mature. I can see Denver riding him this year and deciding on him later in the season.

If he goes, I can see him going only packaged with Barton (Garry less likely), to get a good combo guard back + SF (which we can get from FA)
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