Beasley rises

[NuggetsWY]

It’s been interesting watching this board slowly realizing the future situation.

You are worried about how to get value out of all our assets, so you are trying to trade players off. No matter how you trade, you will be losing some value. Most of us are willing to gamble on our youth developing, even if we have to let players walk.

Consider not making a trade. What happens? Next year's salary chart begins with

Code: Select all

Jokic      $28.5m
Grant      $ 9m player option
Cancar     $ 1m
Vanderbilt $ 1.6m
Porter     $ 3.5m
Harris     $19m
Barton     $14m
Murray     $29m
Morris     $ 1.6m
Total     $107.2

Beasley & Hernangomez RFA - so still somewhat under Nuggets' control
Bol & Dozier on two-way - so still somewhat under Nuggets' control
Gone: Millsap, Plumlee, Craig (Craig could be easy to retain)

That leaves us with a potential 14 man roster of

Code: Select all

Center - Jokic (Bol)
PF     - Grant - Cancar - Vanderbilt
SF     - Porter -Barton (Craig - Hernangomez)
SG     - Harris (Beasley)
PG     - Murray - Morris (Dozier)

I doubt that would be the actual roster, but I can live with that foundation.

We'd lose the "value" of Millsap & Plumlee - except we just might be able to sign them for less.

[Coeur]

If you can live with that roster you don’t get it. Or don’t care to be honest. Thinking plumlee or if you don’t like him that backup C spot is not vital to this roster, is a no brainer that Bolbol can fill, or won’t be addressed is ???


And you have Beasley there and still somewhat under control?? Still have GH, and will Barton- and you’re going to get Beasley back??

[NuggetsWY]

If you can live with that roster you don’t get it. Or don’t care to be honest. Thinking plumlee or if you don’t like him that backup C spot is not vital to this roster, is a no brainer that Bolbol can fill, or won’t be addressed is ???

And you have Beasley there and still somewhat under control?? Still have GH, and will Barton- and you’re going to get Beasley back??

You must have missed the part where I said "I doubt that would be the actual roster, but I can live with that foundation."

[skywalker33]

Still in controbl with RFA, at least we didn't fold like BOS did with Brown. As Skilz noted, this will be a very incentivized year for both Juancho and Beasley and let's see how they handle the pressure at the trade deadline

Barton's contract put in danger whole Nuggets salary cap 2020+ construction and the worst thing about it is that our FO didn't even try to get rid of it.

We are 100M next season without Grant, Beasley, Juancho, Craig, Bol, and without Millsap and Plumlee. If we do not trade 14M Barton before the trade deadline, things can go out of control next summer even if the projected salary cap stays 116M. Losing Grant and/or Beasley because Barton would be a disaster.

Think it's about $107M, but I think we do have decisions to make. Seems like Grant is a given IMO, don't feel like we give up a 1st for a rental and he looks like he has long-term potential. Beasley appears to be on the wish-list as we really need to keep our quality depth in the back court. Bol will replace Plumlee so that cuts down options. Craig is a question mark as I can see him being signed on a vet minimum, so really Juancho and Millsap are the only two in question.

This will probably be the last year NOT in the luxury tax but we can still have a solid team going forward.

[Coeur]

Still in controbl with RFA, at least we didn't fold like BOS did with Brown. As Skilz noted, this will be a very incentivized year for both Juancho and Beasley and let's see how they handle the pressure at the trade deadline

Barton's contract put in danger whole Nuggets salary cap 2020+ construction and the worst thing about it is that our FO didn't even try to get rid of it.

We are 100M next season without Grant, Beasley, Juancho, Craig, Bol, and without Millsap and Plumlee. If we do not trade 14M Barton before the trade deadline, things can go out of control next summer even if the projected salary cap stays 116M. Losing Grant and/or Beasley because Barton would be a disaster.

Think it's about $107M, but I think we do have decisions to make. Seems like Grant is a given IMO, don't feel like we give up a 1st for a rental and he looks like he has long-term potential. Beasley appears to be on the wish-list as we really need to keep our quality depth in the back court. Bol will replace Plumlee so that cuts down options. Craig is a question mark as I can see him being signed on a vet minimum, so really Juancho and Millsap are the only two in question.

This will probably be the last year NOT in the luxury tax but we can still have a solid team going forward.

You almost have to go Atleast 25 and prob to 30 per year to get grant and plumlee back. Everyone keeps pretending that plumlee spot won’t cost any big money and Grant? If the Nugs use millsap and Grant all season its almost going to make Grant a 15-20 mill a year guy. Another part of the reason an Arron Gordon type pf would have cost controlled grant better and kept him as a 7th or 8th guy. With this current roster Grant may end up “looking like” the 3rd or 4th guy

[Coeur]

If you can live with that roster you don’t get it. Or don’t care to be honest. Thinking plumlee or if you don’t like him that backup C spot is not vital to this roster, is a no brainer that Bolbol can fill, or won’t be addressed is ???

And you have Beasley there and still somewhat under control?? Still have GH, and will Barton- and you’re going to get Beasley back??

You must have missed the part where I said "I doubt that would be the actual roster, but I can live with that foundation."

But what else are you going to do with that? It will be bring plumlee back or what? If you lose Beasley and Grant then what?


How much are you willing to give each guy?

Beasley- 22-24 million?
Plumlee 10+ ?
Grant- 15-18?
TC- watch out. Too early to talk about this
Millsap- hahaha what are you willing to bring him back at if you happen to lose Grant?





Whole idea is stop pretending plumlee slot disappears or that Beasley and Grant contracts won’t go nuts.

Nugs have tremendous roster value and trade flexibility right now. After the season that all goes away. You want to avoid considering improving the team or the future all to maintain Gary Harris and Millsap in the spots they aren’t good enough to fill for a contending team.


So much trade possibilities with Millsap and Harris but shhhhhh. Wait. Watch a second round exit and this roster with no way to get anybody else over minwage

Murray/monte/
Harris/Barton
____/mpj
____/______
Jokic/_______

Now you get to decide to match MB at 25? Fast do you go big deal on TC? Want to go 20 for Grant? Plumlee for 10*4? Nugs are not in position to sign value deals with this situation. Fact is when you do that to yourself they may only come away w not great value deals. Lose everyone and pay hernangomez 10 to come back and .... start at pf?

[NuggetsWY]

You almost have to go Atleast 25 and prob to 30 per year to get grant and plumlee back. Everyone keeps pretending that plumlee spot won’t cost any big money and Grant? If the Nugs use millsap and Grant all season its almost going to make Grant a 15-20 mill a year guy. Another part of the reason an Arron Gordon type pf would have cost controlled grant better and kept him as a 7th or 8th guy. With this current roster Grant may end up “looking like” the 3rd or 4th guy

It is hard to predict things one year out. You have to consider the potential impact of China on the salary cap plus while you never wish it to happen, but a career ending injury can totally change a team's plans.

You are probably over-valuing Plumlee. Many felt he was overpaid when he got this contract. Look around the league and you will find teams like the Warriors who's top center gets less than $5m. The Lakers have Cousins & Howard at $6m combined. The Clippers top two centers get a combined $12.6m. Rockets' backup center gets less than $3m per year and you can keep going.

I seriously doubt Grant will be a $15-20m guy - not unless he has a serious year and bumps Millsap down to 10 mpg or something. I like Grant and if he lives up to expectation, I'd guess $15m would be his top number and he probably won't get that either.

[skywalker33]

Barton's contract put in danger whole Nuggets salary cap 2020+ construction and the worst thing about it is that our FO didn't even try to get rid of it.

We are 100M next season without Grant, Beasley, Juancho, Craig, Bol, and without Millsap and Plumlee. If we do not trade 14M Barton before the trade deadline, things can go out of control next summer even if the projected salary cap stays 116M. Losing Grant and/or Beasley because Barton would be a disaster.

Think it's about $107M, but I think we do have decisions to make. Seems like Grant is a given IMO, don't feel like we give up a 1st for a rental and he looks like he has long-term potential. Beasley appears to be on the wish-list as we really need to keep our quality depth in the back court. Bol will replace Plumlee so that cuts down options. Craig is a question mark as I can see him being signed on a vet minimum, so really Juancho and Millsap are the only two in question.

This will probably be the last year NOT in the luxury tax but we can still have a solid team going forward.

You almost have to go Atleast 25 and prob to 30 per year to get grant and plumlee back. Everyone keeps pretending that plumlee spot won’t cost any big money and Grant? If the Nugs use millsap and Grant all season its almost going to make Grant a 15-20 mill a year guy. Another part of the reason an Arron Gordon type pf would have cost controlled grant better and kept him as a 7th or 8th guy. With this current roster Grant may end up “looking like” the 3rd or 4th guy

Well, I never said Plumlee will return, his PT is decreasing, what makes YOU imply he'll return ??? And I do agree Grant will look like a 3-4th guy and be a $15-20M a year but I think his play will be a better compliment to Jokic than Gordon will, as far as I know, you're the only one who thinks otherwise.

[skywalker33]

How much are you willing to give each guy?

Beasley- 22-24 million?
Plumlee 10+ ?
Grant- 15-18?
TC- watch out. Too early to talk about this
Millsap- hahaha what are you willing to bring him back at if you happen to lose Grant?

Beasley ISN't getting $22-24M, they'll trade him before that happens....get real !!
Plumlee is more than likely gone, his PT has already been diminished, mins going to Grant likely
That's reasonable for Grant IMO, his PO is already around $9.5M. Appeal to stay on a contender IMO
Millsap may be back but at a vet's min (or coach position), doubt losing Grant is an option

Whole idea is stop pretending plumlee slot disappears or that Beasley and Grant contracts won’t go nuts.

Nugs have tremendous roster value and trade flexibility right now. After the season that all goes away. You want to avoid considering improving the team or the future all to maintain Gary Harris and Millsap in the spots they aren’t good enough to fill for a contending team.

Again, what makes you think Plumlee will return ??? And Nuggets are still in control of Beasley, he's very unlikely to get more than Hield just receive, especially after that fight with Cravens.

You really have a poor assessment of Harris but I throw no value to that the way I see you drool over Wiggins and Bogdonovic (neither of whom have done anything for their current teams BTW). Contenders need guys like Harris.

[Coeur]

Think it's about $107M, but I think we do have decisions to make. Seems like Grant is a given IMO, don't feel like we give up a 1st for a rental and he looks like he has long-term potential. Beasley appears to be on the wish-list as we really need to keep our quality depth in the back court. Bol will replace Plumlee so that cuts down options. Craig is a question mark as I can see him being signed on a vet minimum, so really Juancho and Millsap are the only two in question.

This will probably be the last year NOT in the luxury tax but we can still have a solid team going forward.

You almost have to go Atleast 25 and prob to 30 per year to get grant and plumlee back. Everyone keeps pretending that plumlee spot won’t cost any big money and Grant? If the Nugs use millsap and Grant all season its almost going to make Grant a 15-20 mill a year guy. Another part of the reason an Arron Gordon type pf would have cost controlled grant better and kept him as a 7th or 8th guy. With this current roster Grant may end up “looking like” the 3rd or 4th guy

Well, I never said Plumlee will return, his PT is decreasing, what makes YOU imply he'll return ??? And I do agree Grant will look like a 3-4th guy and be a $15-20M a year but I think his play will be a better compliment to Jokic than Gordon will, as far as I know, you're the only one who thinks otherwise.

Only a very few biased fans think Grant is in any way better than Gordon. You call our a lot of what I say for good reason and it might be tough to defend.

But Aaron Gordon is another level better or more than J Grant. Only someone in baby blue and yellow goggles could think different. Or someone horrid at evaluating talent.

[skywalker33]

You almost have to go Atleast 25 and prob to 30 per year to get grant and plumlee back. Everyone keeps pretending that plumlee spot won’t cost any big money and Grant? If the Nugs use millsap and Grant all season its almost going to make Grant a 15-20 mill a year guy. Another part of the reason an Arron Gordon type pf would have cost controlled grant better and kept him as a 7th or 8th guy. With this current roster Grant may end up “looking like” the 3rd or 4th guy

Well, I never said Plumlee will return, his PT is decreasing, what makes YOU imply he'll return ??? And I do agree Grant will look like a 3-4th guy and be a $15-20M a year but I think his play will be a better compliment to Jokic than Gordon will, as far as I know, you're the only one who thinks otherwise.

Only a very few biased fans think Grant is in any way better than Gordon. You call our a lot of what I say for good reason and it might be tough to defend.

But Aaron Gordon is another level better or more than J Grant. Only someone in baby blue and yellow goggles could think different. Or someone horrid at evaluating talent.

If you want to maintain a semblance of good conversation, please READ what I WRITE, don't change it to suit your argument. I didn't write Grant is a better player than Gordon, I wrote his play compliments Jokic's better than Gordon's, plain and simple.

[NuggetsWY]

Spoiler:

You almost have to go Atleast 25 and prob to 30 per year to get grant and plumlee back. Everyone keeps pretending that plumlee spot won’t cost any big money and Grant? If the Nugs use millsap and Grant all season its almost going to make Grant a 15-20 mill a year guy. Another part of the reason an Arron Gordon type pf would have cost controlled grant better and kept him as a 7th or 8th guy. With this current roster Grant may end up “looking like” the 3rd or 4th guy

Well, I never said Plumlee will return, his PT is decreasing, what makes YOU imply he'll return ??? And I do agree Grant will look like a 3-4th guy and be a $15-20M a year but I think his play will be a better compliment to Jokic than Gordon will, as far as I know, you're the only one who thinks otherwise.

Only a very few biased fans think Grant is in any way better than Gordon. You call our a lot of what I say for good reason and it might be tough to defend.

But Aaron Gordon is another level better or more than J Grant. Only someone in baby blue and yellow goggles could think different. Or someone horrid at evaluating talent.

Count me as one of those "few biased fans" then because I think Grant is much better than Gordon --- in terms of fitting on the Nuggets' roster. I guess I'm horrid at evaluating talent. (And just think about this, a couple of years ago and even last year at least once, I was interested in acquiring Gordon. But the roster has changed and I'm no longer interested.)

[Coeur]

Spoiler:

Well, I never said Plumlee will return, his PT is decreasing, what makes YOU imply he'll return ??? And I do agree Grant will look like a 3-4th guy and be a $15-20M a year but I think his play will be a better compliment to Jokic than Gordon will, as far as I know, you're the only one who thinks otherwise.

Only a very few biased fans think Grant is in any way better than Gordon. You call our a lot of what I say for good reason and it might be tough to defend.

But Aaron Gordon is another level better or more than J Grant. Only someone in baby blue and yellow goggles could think different. Or someone horrid at evaluating talent.

Count me as one of those "few biased fans" then because I think Grant is much better than Gordon --- in terms of fitting on the Nuggets' roster. I guess I'm horrid at evaluating talent. (And just think about this, a couple of years ago and even last year at least once, I was interested in acquiring Gordon. But the roster has changed and I'm no longer interested.)

You think he’s better because he’s a nugget. Simple. And not even close to true. Aaron Gordon is elite at some things Grant is really good at. Gordon is one of the best athletes in the nba.


You might think you’re being ??? Saying that. Watch some Aaron Gordon.

[NuggetsWY]

Spoiler:

Only a very few biased fans think Grant is in any way better than Gordon. You call our a lot of what I say for good reason and it might be tough to defend.

But Aaron Gordon is another level better or more than J Grant. Only someone in baby blue and yellow goggles could think different. Or someone horrid at evaluating talent.

Count me as one of those "few biased fans" then because I think Grant is much better than Gordon --- in terms of fitting on the Nuggets' roster. I guess I'm horrid at evaluating talent. (And just think about this, a couple of years ago and even last year at least once, I was interested in acquiring Gordon. But the roster has changed and I'm no longer interested.)

You think he’s better because he’s a nugget. Simple. And not even close to true. Aaron Gordon is elite at some things Grant is really good at. Gordon is one of the best athletes in the nba.

You might think you’re being ??? Saying that. Watch some Aaron Gordon.

You do not need to be so condescending. Look back at some old threads. The Rebel and I discussed Gordon - as I just indicated. I still like him; just not on the Nuggets. I have indeed watched some Gordon. I do not think Grant is better because he's a Nugget, as you indicated. I do not like the fact that Gordon's salary is double+ compared to Grant's salary. I'm not debating who scores more. The Nuggets are not in need of scoring. They need two-way players.

Grant is quite close to Gordon in terms of "best athletes in the nba".
Gordon shot 44-35-73 last year
Grant shot 50-55-71 which is more impressive
Defensive stats (which are seldom worth much) say they are close to the same.

I have no idea what you mean by "You might think you're being ???"

[Coeur]

Count me as one of those "few biased fans" then because I think Grant is much better than Gordon --- in terms of fitting on the Nuggets' roster. I guess I'm horrid at evaluating talent. (And just think about this, a couple of years ago and even last year at least once, I was interested in acquiring Gordon. But the roster has changed and I'm no longer interested.)

You think he’s better because he’s a nugget. Simple. And not even close to true. Aaron Gordon is elite at some things Grant is really good at. Gordon is one of the best athletes in the nba.

You might think you’re being ??? Saying that. Watch some Aaron Gordon.

You do not need to be so condescending. Look back at some old threads. The Rebel and I discussed Gordon - as I just indicated. I still like him; just not on the Nuggets. I have indeed watched some Gordon. I do not think Grant is better because he's a Nugget, as you indicated. I do not like the fact that Gordon's salary is double+ compared to Grant's salary. I'm not debating who scores more. The Nuggets are not in need of scoring. They need two-way players.

Grant is quite close to Gordon in terms of "best athletes in the nba".
Gordon shot 44-35-73 last year
Grant shot 50-55-71 which is more impressive
Defensive stats (which are seldom worth much) say they are close to the same.

I have no idea what you mean by "You might think you're being ???"

I was searching for that exact word. Thought that was what your post was meant as.


Shooting percentages as a primary option compared to as the Role and shots Grant had?


Gordon salary is huge bonus.


This is the guy the Nugs should be finding anything to add to G harris. That balances out roster.

[skywalker33]

You think he’s better because he’s a nugget. Simple. And not even close to true. Aaron Gordon is elite at some things Grant is really good at. Gordon is one of the best athletes in the nba.

You might think you’re being ??? Saying that. Watch some Aaron Gordon.

You do not need to be so condescending. Look back at some old threads. The Rebel and I discussed Gordon - as I just indicated. I still like him; just not on the Nuggets. I have indeed watched some Gordon. I do not think Grant is better because he's a Nugget, as you indicated. I do not like the fact that Gordon's salary is double+ compared to Grant's salary. I'm not debating who scores more. The Nuggets are not in need of scoring. They need two-way players.

Grant is quite close to Gordon in terms of "best athletes in the nba".
Gordon shot 44-35-73 last year
Grant shot 50-55-71 which is more impressive
Defensive stats (which are seldom worth much) say they are close to the same.

I have no idea what you mean by "You might think you're being ???"

I was searching for that exact word. Thought that was what your post was meant as.


Shooting percentages as a primary option compared to as the Role and shots Grant had?


Gordon salary is huge bonus.


This is the guy the Nugs should be finding anything to add to G harris. That balances out roster.

Wow....thought Wiggins was the answer.....or Bogdanovic was taking us to the next level .....or Bjelica was the difference...

so is Gordon your flavor of the week ??

[NuggetsWY]

You do not need to be so condescending. Look back at some old threads. The Rebel and I discussed Gordon - as I just indicated. I still like him; just not on the Nuggets. I have indeed watched some Gordon. I do not think Grant is better because he's a Nugget, as you indicated. I do not like the fact that Gordon's salary is double+ compared to Grant's salary. I'm not debating who scores more. The Nuggets are not in need of scoring. They need two-way players.

Grant is quite close to Gordon in terms of "best athletes in the nba".
Gordon shot 44-35-73 last year
Grant shot 50-55-71 which is more impressive
Defensive stats (which are seldom worth much) say they are close to the same.

I have no idea what you mean by "You might think you're being ???"

I was searching for that exact word. Thought that was what your post was meant as.

Shooting percentages as a primary option compared to as the Role and shots Grant had?

Gordon salary is huge bonus.

This is the guy the Nugs should be finding anything to add to G harris. That balances out roster.

Wow....thought Wiggins was the answer.....or Bogdanovic was taking us to the next level .....or Bjelica was the difference...

so is Gordon your flavor of the week ??

Maybe we beat the Wiggins out of him? Finally!

[Coeur]

You do not need to be so condescending. Look back at some old threads. The Rebel and I discussed Gordon - as I just indicated. I still like him; just not on the Nuggets. I have indeed watched some Gordon. I do not think Grant is better because he's a Nugget, as you indicated. I do not like the fact that Gordon's salary is double+ compared to Grant's salary. I'm not debating who scores more. The Nuggets are not in need of scoring. They need two-way players.

Grant is quite close to Gordon in terms of "best athletes in the nba".
Gordon shot 44-35-73 last year
Grant shot 50-55-71 which is more impressive
Defensive stats (which are seldom worth much) say they are close to the same.

I have no idea what you mean by "You might think you're being ???"

I was searching for that exact word. Thought that was what your post was meant as.


Shooting percentages as a primary option compared to as the Role and shots Grant had?


Gordon salary is huge bonus.


This is the guy the Nugs should be finding anything to add to G harris. That balances out roster.

Wow....thought Wiggins was the answer.....or Bogdanovic was taking us to the next level .....or Bjelica was the difference...

so is Gordon your flavor of the week ??

Bjelica was a throw in I like a lot. But good memory.

No AG was my perfect fit choice the whole time. That was as soon as draft was over and didn’t get Brandon Clarke. But the Hole in roster that Gordon was perfect fit was half filled w Grant.

Wiggins was always as negative value but yes I def still think he fits perfect. And W all the wings Nugs have that need is half filled too.

The 3rd scorer and big time shooter that Bogdanovic is would be the 3rd guy.

No I’m not changing. Those 3 guys and 3 roles have been the same for me the whole time. Team needs a 3rd scorer in playoff games. Those are the 3 spots it could come from and 3 guys nobody here has thought of better options in trade ideas

[Coeur]

I was searching for that exact word. Thought that was what your post was meant as.

Shooting percentages as a primary option compared to as the Role and shots Grant had?

Gordon salary is huge bonus.

This is the guy the Nugs should be finding anything to add to G harris. That balances out roster.

Wow....thought Wiggins was the answer.....or Bogdanovic was taking us to the next level .....or Bjelica was the difference...

so is Gordon your flavor of the week ??

Maybe we beat the Wiggins out of him? Finally!

Nah you know that didn’t happen. Just not as worth talking about.

I did notice you understanding that harris and Barton for one wing player would be good for future cap reasons on a heyward trade.

Beasley and hernangomez for Bogdanovic
Millsap for Wiggins
Gary harris for Aaron Gordon


Pay all the picks needed for those 3 guys.

[skywalker33]

I was searching for that exact word. Thought that was what your post was meant as.


Shooting percentages as a primary option compared to as the Role and shots Grant had?


Gordon salary is huge bonus.


This is the guy the Nugs should be finding anything to add to G harris. That balances out roster.

Wow....thought Wiggins was the answer.....or Bogdanovic was taking us to the next level .....or Bjelica was the difference...

so is Gordon your flavor of the week ??

Bjelica was a throw in I like a lot. But good memory.

No AG was my perfect fit choice the whole time. That was as soon as draft was over and didn’t get Brandon Clarke. But the Hole in roster that Gordon was perfect fit was half filled w Grant.

Wiggins was always as negative value but yes I def still think he fits perfect. And W all the wings Nugs have that need is half filled too.

The 3rd scorer and big time shooter that Bogdanovic is would be the 3rd guy.

No I’m not changing. Those 3 guys and 3 roles have been the same for me the whole time. Team needs a 3rd scorer in playoff games. Those are the 3 spots it could come from and 3 guys nobody here has thought of better options in trade ideas

As I have stated before I do admire your conviction and I also have to give credit where it's due, I have come around to seeing the value in Brandon Clarke, he's a player.

AG is not a need, PF has been solid for us with Millsap and Grant so it would really be a lateral move at best. As I and others contend, his fit next to Jokic would be poor unless he could/would change his game which most players that have maintained the spotlight aren't willing to do.

Wiggins I will NEVER accept as a Nugget fit, he's inefficient, a poor defender and a lousy decision maker.

Bogdanovic wants out of SAC because he wants to start and make starter money, obviously NOT a team player, it's about the money.