2019 Off-Season Questions

[NuggetsWY]

I'm still sour about the way Iguodala left, but I'd definitely take him back. He's exactly what this team is missing. Who knows if he or Kroneke would even be open to a reunion though.

It'd have to be in a trade in order to free up the rotation but it doesn't seem like it would cost all that much. If you can kill two birds with one stone by turning Barton's contract into Iggy's expiring deal, I'd be ecstatic. I'd think a protected 1st and/or Juancho would be enough incentive for Memphis.

I think Iguodala of three years ago is what our team needs but this past season he seemed a step slow too often. However, if we could trade Barton's 4 yr @ $13m for Iguodala's 2 yr @ $17m, I wouldn't object too much. I don't think I'd want to add much to that deal because Memphis is getting a guy that could start at SG (especially if they release Bradley as has been suggested); meanwhile we'd be getting a guy who doesn't provide much offense (okay with that) and provides decent defense (like that), but he's a bench player, so ... a future lottery protected 1st - maybe. (Protect that 1st as a Nuggets 1st, not an acquired one since it seems unlikely the Nuggets will be in the lottery.)

[psimanic1]

Go with Harris + picks for Westbrook. Murray can play 2 and Barton and Plumlee would have to go.. If we could also do S&T of Lyles, we could get Westbrook and Gallo for Harris, Juancho, Lyles, Barton, Plumlee and pick or two. And then maybe get Roberson from them for TPE?
Westbrook, Murray, Gallo, Millsap, Jokic
Morris, Beasley, Craig, MPJ, Vanderbilt, Roberson and we would need a C

[TunaFish]

Go with Harris + picks for Westbrook. Murray can play 2 and Barton and Plumlee would have to go.. If we could also do S&T of Lyles, we could get Westbrook and Gallo for Harris, Juancho, Lyles, Barton, Plumlee and pick or two. And then maybe get Roberson from them for TPE?
Westbrook, Murray, Gallo, Millsap, Jokic
Morris, Beasley, Craig, MPJ, Vanderbilt, Roberson and we would need a C

Again, check spotrac on Westbrook's salary. Harris is about 17 million and Westbrook is about 39 million. How much cap space does Denver have? How much room under the luxury tax does Denver have?

This is what you have to understand before proposing a trade.

[NuggetsWY]

Go with Harris + picks for Westbrook. Murray can play 2 and Barton and Plumlee would have to go.. If we could also do S&T of Lyles, we could get Westbrook and Gallo for Harris, Juancho, Lyles, Barton, Plumlee and pick or two. And then maybe get Roberson from them for TPE?
Westbrook, Murray, Gallo, Millsap, Jokic
Morris, Beasley, Craig, MPJ, Vanderbilt, Roberson and we would need a C

Again, check spotrac on Westbrook's salary. Harris is about 17 million and Westbrook is about 39 million. How much cap space does Denver have? How much room under the luxury tax does Denver have?

This is what you have to understand before proposing a trade.

It will take at least three Nuggets to match Westbrook - unless you use Millsap or Jokic, then it will take just two and we are talking starters and top bench players.

This whole idea is not happening as in not even remotely possible. Adding Gallinari makes it even more impossible. We could send Harris, Plumlee, Barton, Lyles, and Hernangomez and we still fall short of Westbrook + Gallinari. This idea is an imitation of the Lakers; trade everyone to get one or two players. It would be a little better, but not much.

[dagger]

Toronto fan here. As we retool, Toronto will be looking at moving vets to bring in younger players. Kyle Lowry is both a five time all-star, but more importantly the spiritual leader, smartest player on the court, excellent for pacing offence without taking it over, etc. He was instrumental in the finals, and some brilliant games. He's an expiring contract, but also says he can play 2-3 years at his current level. He's going to have his number retired here, but I'm sure he'd rather have a shot at a title with Denver - he'd increase your chances, given the depth the Nuggets have - than spend a year wondering if he's going to be traded at the deadline. Key thing - his acquisition cost and downstream financial risk are nothing like Westbrook's and he's learned how to become a good teammate, whereas Westbrook continues to turn off teammates. I'm guessing the Raptors would move Lowry for one good young player - obviously NOT Jokic or Murray - and whatever else in takes in contracts. No picks would be required either way. With the departure of Danny Green, the shooting guard spot is an area of need for Toronto going forward. I know the Raptors liked Gary Harris and had the 20th draft slot - one pick after he went to the Nuggets. There is little doubt Toronto would have taken him at 20 that year.

[TunaFish]

Toronto fan here. As we retool, Toronto will be looking at moving vets to bring in younger players. Kyle Lowry is both a five time all-star, but more importantly the spiritual leader, smartest player on the court, excellent for pacing offence without taking it over, etc. He was instrumental in the finals, and some brilliant games. He's an expiring contract, but also says he can play 2-3 years at his current level. He's going to have his number retired here, but I'm sure he'd rather have a shot at a title with Denver - he'd increase your chances, given the depth the Nuggets have - than spend a year wondering if he's going to be traded at the deadline. Key thing - his acquisition cost and downstream financial risk are nothing like Westbrook's and he's learned how to become a good teammate, whereas Westbrook continues to turn off teammates. I'm guessing the Raptors would move Lowry for one good young player - obviously NOT Jokic or Murray - and whatever else in takes in contracts. No picks would be required either way. With the departure of Danny Green, the shooting guard spot is an area of need for Toronto going forward. I know the Raptors liked Gary Harris and had the 20th draft slot - one pick after he went to the Nuggets. There is little doubt Toronto would have taken him at 20 that year.

Lowry is 33 years old and has a contract of about 33 million per year expiring at the end of next season. Harris is at about 17 million per year. Both teams are over the cap and Denver is about 12 million under the luxury tax. That means your proposed trade requires an additional player. The expiring part is nice but Denver already has two major contracts expiring in Millsap (30 mil) and Plumlee.

Murray is the starting point guard in Denver so would Lowry be his backup? Harris is Denver's primary wing defender so pushing Murray into that slot might not be too wise.

The other issue is that Harris is on a team friendly contract for his performance and at age 25 is part of their core. As much a I like Lowry there is no way Denver would trade for him in my opinion. Now Siakam, Van Fleet and Anunoby together are pretty close to Harris's salary if you would like to make a trade.

[NuggetsWY]

Spoiler:

Toronto fan here. As we retool, Toronto will be looking at moving vets to bring in younger players. Kyle Lowry is both a five time all-star, but more importantly the spiritual leader, smartest player on the court, excellent for pacing offence without taking it over, etc. He was instrumental in the finals, and some brilliant games. He's an expiring contract, but also says he can play 2-3 years at his current level. He's going to have his number retired here, but I'm sure he'd rather have a shot at a title with Denver - he'd increase your chances, given the depth the Nuggets have - than spend a year wondering if he's going to be traded at the deadline. Key thing - his acquisition cost and downstream financial risk are nothing like Westbrook's and he's learned how to become a good teammate, whereas Westbrook continues to turn off teammates. I'm guessing the Raptors would move Lowry for one good young player - obviously NOT Jokic or Murray - and whatever else in takes in contracts. No picks would be required either way. With the departure of Danny Green, the shooting guard spot is an area of need for Toronto going forward. I know the Raptors liked Gary Harris and had the 20th draft slot - one pick after he went to the Nuggets. There is little doubt Toronto would have taken him at 20 that year.

Lowry is 33 years old and has a contract of about 33 million per year expiring at the end of next season. Harris is at about 17 million per year. Both teams are over the cap and Denver is about 12 million under the luxury tax. That means your proposed trade requires an additional player. The expiring part is nice but Denver already has two major contracts expiring in Millsap (30 mil) and Plumlee.

Murray is the starting point guard in Denver so would Lowry be his backup? Harris is Denver's primary wing defender so pushing Murray into that slot might not be too wise.

The other issue is that Harris is on a team friendly contract for his performance and at age 25 is part of their core. As much a I like Lowry there is no way Denver would trade for him in my opinion. Now Siakam, Van Fleet and Anunoby together are pretty close to Harris's salary if you would like to make a trade.

Gotta' agree with Tunafish on this one.
To match salary Denver would have to send two of Harris, Plumlee, Barton (excluding Jokic & Murray). Barton & Harris might make sense for Toronto but Plumlee only makes sense as an expiring in Toronto. If Toronto adds Anunoby, Denver might be more willing (and maybe add some future picks). But truthfully I don't think Denver is really interested in Lowry.

Lowry for Millsap clears salary for Toronto but that hurts Denver for this year. So again, Denver probably says no.

[The Rebel]

Toronto fan here. As we retool, Toronto will be looking at moving vets to bring in younger players. Kyle Lowry is both a five time all-star, but more importantly the spiritual leader, smartest player on the court, excellent for pacing offence without taking it over, etc. He was instrumental in the finals, and some brilliant games. He's an expiring contract, but also says he can play 2-3 years at his current level. He's going to have his number retired here, but I'm sure he'd rather have a shot at a title with Denver - he'd increase your chances, given the depth the Nuggets have - than spend a year wondering if he's going to be traded at the deadline. Key thing - his acquisition cost and downstream financial risk are nothing like Westbrook's and he's learned how to become a good teammate, whereas Westbrook continues to turn off teammates. I'm guessing the Raptors would move Lowry for one good young player - obviously NOT Jokic or Murray - and whatever else in takes in contracts. No picks would be required either way. With the departure of Danny Green, the shooting guard spot is an area of need for Toronto going forward. I know the Raptors liked Gary Harris and had the 20th draft slot - one pick after he went to the Nuggets. There is little doubt Toronto would have taken him at 20 that year.

Losing Harris hurts this team tremendously, he is a very underrated perimeter defender and is key in us having a top 5 defense against 3s. Our defense dropped from top 3 to 12th overall when he was out for the 6 weeks, and despite him not being healthy all season it improved as soon as he got back. As much as I like Lowry, we have no need for him. Adding him or any other PG hurts our offense, and is really a waste.

I also do not see the Raptors or any other team viewing our young guys like our front office views them, for good reason. We have had huge success developing and finding value, much like Ujiri, but a lot of our young guys were buried deep and over the last year have finally started getting minutes and showing they are worthwhile.

We need forwards and I would love a better backup Center. I doubt the Nuggets would ever do it, but I would love a trade for Gasol and Ibaka.

I would love something like Barton, Plumlee, Millsap, 2 1sts for Gasol and Ibaka. With the idea that Gasol could backup Jokic for 15-18 mpg and play a couple with him and Ibaka could be our starting PF.

I could actually see the Nuggets doing something like Millsap or Plumlee and Barton with a 1st for Ibaka and Powell as well, with the idea that Ibaka could backup C and start at PF and Powell can compete for minutes at SF.

[Alatan]

Toronto fan here. As we retool, Toronto will be looking at moving vets to bring in younger players. Kyle Lowry is both a five time all-star, but more importantly the spiritual leader, smartest player on the court, excellent for pacing offence without taking it over, etc. He was instrumental in the finals, and some brilliant games. He's an expiring contract, but also says he can play 2-3 years at his current level. He's going to have his number retired here, but I'm sure he'd rather have a shot at a title with Denver - he'd increase your chances, given the depth the Nuggets have - than spend a year wondering if he's going to be traded at the deadline. Key thing - his acquisition cost and downstream financial risk are nothing like Westbrook's and he's learned how to become a good teammate, whereas Westbrook continues to turn off teammates. I'm guessing the Raptors would move Lowry for one good young player - obviously NOT Jokic or Murray - and whatever else in takes in contracts. No picks would be required either way. With the departure of Danny Green, the shooting guard spot is an area of need for Toronto going forward. I know the Raptors liked Gary Harris and had the 20th draft slot - one pick after he went to the Nuggets. There is little doubt Toronto would have taken him at 20 that year.

Lowry is a good player but too old. He is a skill based player so he might last longer than his piers but still not enough to be a part of Denvers core. Even if he doesnt fall of a cliff he is an unrestricted FA and could easily leave the team. On the other side Harris has had a injury riddled year and was playing much worse than he is capable. An interesting proposal but we must pass.

[THE J0KER]

Toronto fan here. As we retool, Toronto will be looking at moving vets to bring in younger players. Kyle Lowry is both a five time all-star, but more importantly the spiritual leader, smartest player on the court, excellent for pacing offence without taking it over, etc. He was instrumental in the finals, and some brilliant games. He's an expiring contract, but also says he can play 2-3 years at his current level. He's going to have his number retired here, but I'm sure he'd rather have a shot at a title with Denver - he'd increase your chances, given the depth the Nuggets have - than spend a year wondering if he's going to be traded at the deadline. Key thing - his acquisition cost and downstream financial risk are nothing like Westbrook's and he's learned how to become a good teammate, whereas Westbrook continues to turn off teammates. I'm guessing the Raptors would move Lowry for one good young player - obviously NOT Jokic or Murray - and whatever else in takes in contracts. No picks would be required either way. With the departure of Danny Green, the shooting guard spot is an area of need for Toronto going forward. I know the Raptors liked Gary Harris and had the 20th draft slot - one pick after he went to the Nuggets. There is little doubt Toronto would have taken him at 20 that year.

Canadian best players Murray and Wiggins to Toronto (+Lyles, +MIN2021).
Siakam, Lowry, Ibaka, and Covington to Denver.
Millsap, Plumlee, and Barton to Minnesota (+DEN2021).

[NuggetsWY]

Toronto fan here. As we retool, Toronto will be looking at moving vets to bring in younger players. Kyle Lowry is both a five time all-star, but more importantly the spiritual leader, smartest player on the court, excellent for pacing offence without taking it over, etc. He was instrumental in the finals, and some brilliant games. He's an expiring contract, but also says he can play 2-3 years at his current level. He's going to have his number retired here, but I'm sure he'd rather have a shot at a title with Denver - he'd increase your chances, given the depth the Nuggets have - than spend a year wondering if he's going to be traded at the deadline. Key thing - his acquisition cost and downstream financial risk are nothing like Westbrook's and he's learned how to become a good teammate, whereas Westbrook continues to turn off teammates. I'm guessing the Raptors would move Lowry for one good young player - obviously NOT Jokic or Murray - and whatever else in takes in contracts. No picks would be required either way. With the departure of Danny Green, the shooting guard spot is an area of need for Toronto going forward. I know the Raptors liked Gary Harris and had the 20th draft slot - one pick after he went to the Nuggets. There is little doubt Toronto would have taken him at 20 that year.

Canadian best players Murray and Wiggins to Toronto (+Lyles, +MIN2021).
Siakam, Lowry, Ibaka, and Covington to Denver.
Millsap, Plumlee, and Barton to Minnesota (+DEN2021).

[THE J0KER]

Canadian best players Murray and Wiggins to Toronto (+Lyles, +MIN2021).
Siakam, Lowry, Ibaka, and Covington to Denver.
Millsap, Plumlee, and Barton to Minnesota (+DEN2021).

Lowry-Harris-Covington-Siakam-Jokic with 6th man Ibaka is TOP5 offense and defense both, which means a clear favorite to win the title together with two LA teams this season. On the long term, if we ignore all expiring players from this deal, it is also good trade for us, because of Siakam+Covington>Murray+Barton (because of Covington>>Barton).

The only reason I would ever trade Murray is if we notable improving our odds to win the ring, and this is that exception.

[Timmyyy]

Canadian best players Murray and Wiggins to Toronto (+Lyles, +MIN2021).
Siakam, Lowry, Ibaka, and Covington to Denver.
Millsap, Plumlee, and Barton to Minnesota (+DEN2021).

Lowry-Harris-Covington-Siakam-Jokic with 6th man Ibaka is TOP5 offense and defense both, which means a clear favorite to win the title together with two LA teams this season. On the long term, if we ignore all expiring players from this deal, it is also good trade for us, because of Siakam+Covington>Murray+Barton (because of Covington>>Barton).

The only reason I would ever trade Murray is if we notable improving our odds to win the ring, and this is that exception.

I mean of course that would be a dream lineup for Denver. Siakam and Covington might be the best fits you can find for us.

But do you really think Toronto does this? We are killing them completely in this trade. Siakam is the most valuable player in this trade. Then you have Lowry and Ibaka who both also have value for contending teams. What are the Raps getting back? Murray who is great but still worse than Siakam and Wiggins, the biggest negative in the whole trade (+meaningless pick). I mean I understand YOU don't want to give up Murray unless it notably improves our odds to win, but don't you think the Raps think that way about their players too, especially Siakam? Sorry to say that but that trade is really so lopsided and I hope that doesn't come around disrespectful, because it isn't supposed to be, but it's clear for which team you are rooting for just by looking at the trade proposal.
Siakam should be, and I guess he is, completely off the table, unless a superstar a la Kawhi, Durant, Steph, Lebron, Davis etc. (definitely not Murray) becomes realistic. But this time I completely agree with the targets you have , even though Siakam seems unrealistic (Last time I commented on a proposal of yours, it was on Warren and Beal).

Finally I wanna say something. I have the feeling we are in a position where our front office is capped out. I have the fear they won't get us any further. Making and holding onto bad signings like Barton was ok in the rebuilding process. Overvaluing the own young players too. Letting the bad veterans play heavy minutes and not trade for or sign better guys that could challenge their position was ok too. But now we are in the situation we need to improve to keep up with the competition. We need a good defensive SF so badly. There were a lot of guys in free agency (Ariza, Carroll, Green, admittedly some were signed for more than we would be able to afford, but there are always ways like S&T or something) and I could still see a lot of trade targets. But deep in my soul I know it won't happen because we don't want to disrespect Barton. A guy that was a bad player last year and makes way too much money.
We are in a position were our internal improvement got us to being a WCF contender, but we won't take the next step or even remain that status if we don't sign or trade for useful guys (no matter if smaller ones like I mentioned or bigger ones like Millsap).
Millsap was the only ime I had the feeling a non draft move really pushed us a step or even multiple ones further. SInce then it seems we are going the same old 'we trust our guys', 'internal improvement' type of route.
I mean I already discussed in here that I don't want to make silly signings like these Middleton or Harris ones or trades were we overpay and do not get any better. But at some point I think we need to sign someone good and piss of one of our guys that plays his position or trade one of our young guys even if it is just for a very good role player to become better. Otherwise we might waste too much time of Jokic's prime (for example if we wait for every young guy on the roster to show his potential, trusting our internal improvement).

Just a feeling and I hope they proof me wrong.

[THE J0KER]

Spoiler:

Lowry-Harris-Covington-Siakam-Jokic with 6th man Ibaka is TOP5 offense and defense both, which means a clear favorite to win the title together with two LA teams this season. On the long term, if we ignore all expiring players from this deal, it is also good trade for us, because of Siakam+Covington>Murray+Barton (because of Covington>>Barton).

The only reason I would ever trade Murray is if we notable improving our odds to win the ring, and this is that exception.

I mean of course that would be a dream lineup for Denver. Siakam and Covington might be the best fits you can find for us.

But do you really think Toronto does this? We are killing them completely in this trade. Siakam is the most valuable player in this trade. Then you have Lowry and Ibaka who both also have value for contending teams. What are the Raps getting back? Murray who is great but still worse than Siakam and Wiggins, the biggest negative in the whole trade (+meaningless pick). I mean I understand YOU don't want to give up Murray unless it notably improves our odds to win, but don't you think the Raps think that way about their players too, especially Siakam? Sorry to say that but that trade is really so lopsided and I hope that doesn't come around disrespectful, because it isn't supposed to be, but it's clear for which team you are rooting for just by looking at the trade proposal.
Siakam should be, and I guess he is, completely off the table, unless a superstar a la Kawhi, Durant, Steph, Lebron, Davis etc. (definitely not Murray) becomes realistic. But this time I completely agree with the targets you have , even though Siakam seems unrealistic (Last time I commented on a proposal of yours, it was on Warren and Beal).

Finally I wanna say something. I have the feeling we are in a position where our front office is capped out. I have the fear they won't get us any further. Making and holding onto bad signings like Barton was ok in the rebuilding process. Overvaluing the own young players too. Letting the bad veterans play heavy minutes and not trade for or sign better guys that could challenge their position was ok too. But now we are in the situation we need to improve to keep up with the competition. We need a good defensive SF so badly. There were a lot of guys in free agency (Ariza, Carroll, Green, admittedly some were signed for more than we would be able to afford, but there are always ways like S&T or something) and I could still see a lot of trade targets. But deep in my soul I know it won't happen because we don't want to disrespect Barton. A guy that was a bad player last year and makes way too much money.

Spoiler:

We are in a position were our internal improvement got us to being a WCF contender, but we won't take the next step or even remain that status if we don't sign or trade for useful guys (no matter if smaller ones like I mentioned or bigger ones like Millsap).
Millsap was the only ime I had the feeling a non draft move really pushed us a step or even multiple ones further. SInce then it seems we are going the same old 'we trust our guys', 'internal improvement' type of route.
I mean I already discussed in here that I don't want to make silly signings like these Middleton or Harris ones or trades were we overpay and do not get any better. But at some point I think we need to sign someone good and piss of one of our guys that plays his position or trade one of our young guys even if it is just for a very good role player to become better. Otherwise we might waste too much time of Jokic's prime (for example if we wait for every young guy on the roster to show his potential, trusting our internal improvement).

Just a feeling and I hope they proof me wrong.

Unfortunatelly, I must agree with you, I have the same feeling about our FO strategy. They don't realize that better and better your team becoming, you actually have more and more reasons to improve that team because when you are in contender zone even the smallest improvement have potentially big value!

After 2018 season teams with most reasons to be happy are Boston, Utah, and Houston, and they didn't change anything. Big mistake!

At the end won Toronto which also can enjoy the fact team won 2017-18 regular season on the East, and LeBron finally left the Conference, but in the process, they decide to change coach of the year, franchise player and take three expiring players via trades to be new starters. And all these changes they do not to win the ring, nobody can predict that Durant and Klay will be out from final - all these changes Raptors do just to win Eastern Conference for the first time in franchise history.

Talking about a trade I presented, I don't agree it would be suicide for Toronto. I'm often criticized here for my trade ideas suggestions because I giving too much to other sides, but I also just follow the logic that if other side doesn't get something which they need more than they give, why would they be part of any deal with Denver. While Siakam is a currently a better player than Murray from that same 2016 draft class, I can't agree his market value is over Murray, because Jamal is 22y old and have a bigger room for a further improvement than 25y Siakam. Especially in Canada Jamal Murray should not be underrated, as currently best Canadian player. The same about Wiggins which is a negative asset, and for that Raptors will be awarded taking Minnesota 1st round pick (a lottery pick for sure). Wiggins also can be a good gamble for Raptors, because the guy is super-athlete which playing like a robot without passion and defense. Maybe his native Canada is a perfect place for him to re-bump career, and more important, Canadian duo Murray-Wiggins can save basketball hype in Canada in upcoming rebuilding years where the team is not going to be contender anyway.

[psimanic1]

I think that if TOR is trading for Murray, they do it to pair him with Siakam, not to build around him only...

[psimanic1]

Oklahoma City Is trading F Jerami Grant to Denver for a 2020 first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN. Deal brings OKC it’s sixth future first in past week and saves Thunder $39M in salary and luxury tax.

[Manolito]

IMHO good move, slightly overpaid but we have enough young prospects and it should be a late first round.

Grant is a very good fir for Jokic. 25 years old, 40% 3pt and rim protector. He is very durable and has a very friendly contract (although only one year remaining). I like the move, he could very well be our starter PF in the next years, it depends on his D.

[Timmyyy]

Wow guys maybe I should complain more about our front office I mean that was basically like an answer to my post earlier today.

Grant is a good defender and fits nearly perfectly for us at both F positions. Exactly the small, low risk move that could potentially improve us.
Now hopefully we can integrate Grant at the starting SF position, which would give us a chance to really improve our defense the most and it would improve our offense from the starting 5 by subtracting Barton and give the ball to the better players in Jokic and Murray.
If he doesn't fit as a SF he can still be our back up PF and insurance for the time when Millsap leaves.

I like that move.

[TunaFish]

Grant's arrival fills a hole we could all see.

[Manolito]

The other uncovered hole is 3pt Shooter. Theoretically MPJ could help us there but nobody really knows what to expect from him.

Would you trade Barton x Courtney Lee? I would prefer Barton to recover some of his trade value during the season but I don't see that happening If everybody is healthy.

Juancho is the other candidate to be moved.

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