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2019 Off-Season Questions

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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#461 » by skywalker33 » Tue Jul 9, 2019 8:27 pm

THE J0KER wrote:
lavy91 wrote:Hi guys, heat fan here trying to facilitate the Westbrook trade..
Do you think you guys would go for this trade:

Dragic
Derrick Jones Jr.
Your 2022 2nd rounder back (from the Bol Bol trade)

For

Mason Plumlee
Vanderbilt (strictly in to make the money work, can be replaced)
2022 lottery protected 1st

http://tradenba.com/trades/r1QvdzzWr

I know Dragic last year was riddled with injuries but it's nothing major and I think he can be really good still, we just wouldn't need him with Westbrook.
Derrick Jones is still really young and showed some potential last year.

What do you think?

I think this will put our team into the luxury tax which our Ownership doesn't like to pay, unlike Heat or Thunder franchises.

What about this:
MIAMI: Westbrook
OKLAHOMA: Millsap, Barton, Plumlee, R.Anderson, DEN2022
DENVER: Dragic, Gallinari


Stepien rule might come into play here too
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#462 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Jul 9, 2019 10:55 pm

THE J0KER wrote:
lavy91 wrote:Hi guys, heat fan here trying to facilitate the Westbrook trade..
Do you think you guys would go for this trade:

Dragic
Derrick Jones Jr.
Your 2022 2nd rounder back (from the Bol Bol trade)

For

Mason Plumlee
Vanderbilt (strictly in to make the money work, can be replaced)
2022 lottery protected 1st

http://tradenba.com/trades/r1QvdzzWr

I know Dragic last year was riddled with injuries but it's nothing major and I think he can be really good still, we just wouldn't need him with Westbrook.
Derrick Jones is still really young and showed some potential last year.

What do you think?

I think this will put our team into the luxury tax which our Ownership doesn't like to pay, unlike Heat or Thunder franchises.

What about this:
MIAMI: Westbrook
OKLAHOMA: Millsap, Barton, Plumlee, R.Anderson, DEN2022
DENVER: Dragic, Gallinari

I don't really want Dragic but okay, that trade isn't terrible but I don't like giving up a 1st on that deal.
Not sure why people (more than one) are looking to bring Gallinari back. I like him and wouldn't object, but I'd rather see what our young forwards can do. That said, Millsap gone and Gallinari in seems okay.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#463 » by NuggetsWY » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:52 am

One of the few SGs that could take Gary Harris' slot on the Nuggets on both ends of the court (in my opinion): Bradley Beal.

Trade Harris & Barton for Beal and no doubt Washington will want a draft pick.

Any takers?
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#464 » by Manolito » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:15 am

We can not give away a first round pick until we don't convey the one to OKC (2020 top10 protected). We can only trade 2024 frp, which makes no sense bc who knows who will be in the team at that time.

That means no trades including a first round pick during this complete season.

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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#465 » by THE J0KER » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:30 am

NuggetsWY wrote:One of the few SGs that could take Gary Harris' slot on the Nuggets on both ends of the court (in my opinion): Bradley Beal.

Trade Harris & Barton for Beal and no doubt Washington will want a draft pick.

Any takers?
If they really want to give Beal for Harris, Barton, and 2022FRP, give them Beal, Barton, and 2022FRP! If it is not enough, then add to the offer Juancho and JV too, and 2024 2nd if necessary. Beal is an all-star caliber player Harris is not, and from our point of view, Barton is a negative asset. In this year playoff, we see the difference between very good two-way guard as Gary Harris, and clearly better, established TOP30 guards CJ McCollum or DeMar DeRozan (Bradley Beal belongs to that group of players by quality).

Murray - Beal - Grant(MPJ) - Millsap - Jokic with a trustful deep bench would be arguably 2020 TOP3 ring contender.

Manolito wrote:We can not give away a first round pick until we don't convey the one to OKC (2020 top10 protected). We can only trade 2024 frp, which makes no sense bc who knows who will be in the team at that time.

That means no trades including a first round pick during this complete season.
I think we can conditionally trade first available pick from 2022-24, where chances that already 2020FRP will go to OKC is over 95%, so 2022FRP is what we trade in reality.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#466 » by U hova » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:05 pm

The wizards aren't moving bradley beal until they hire a permanent gm
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#467 » by TGW » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:38 pm

U hova wrote:The wizards aren't moving bradley beal until they hire a permanent gm


and they sure as hell isn't trading him for that terrible package.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#468 » by skywalker33 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:38 pm

TGW wrote:
U hova wrote:The wizards aren't moving bradley beal until they hire a permanent gm


and they sure as hell isn't trading him for that terrible package.


With as much disarray as the Wiz FO is in right now....never say never. :lol:
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#469 » by THE J0KER » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:09 pm

TGW wrote:
U hova wrote:The wizards aren't moving bradley beal until they hire a permanent gm


and they sure as hell isn't trading him for that terrible package.
It is not trashy package, but Beal is a 2nd best available player on the market now, right after supermax overpaid Westbrook, so I guess they can get a better package for him. Harris is a good player, but who says they need a good player now if they going to rebuild their team. They probably would be focused on assets, in Denver case, it would be something like Barton+Plumlee+MPJ+Bol+2022 for Bradley Beal, if they want to take the risk with injured players after a bad experience with John Wall.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#470 » by NuggetsWY » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:23 pm

THE J0KER wrote:
TGW wrote:
U hova wrote:The wizards aren't moving bradley beal until they hire a permanent gm

and they sure as hell isn't trading him for that terrible package.
It is not trashy package, but Beal is a 2nd best available player on the market now, right after supermax overpaid Westbrook, so I guess they can get a better package for him. Harris is a good player, but who says they need a good player now if they going to rebuild their team. They probably would be focused on assets, in Denver case, it would be something like Barton+Plumlee+MPJ+Bol+2022 for Bradley Beal, if they want to take the risk with injured players after a bad experience with John Wall.

I agree my suggestion was "light" for Washington. It was simply a starting point. Harris is a slightly younger version of Beal, but not much younger. So there isn't much difference there. I have no doubt they could use Barton and he isn't too old for a rebuild or reload. Not sure they'd actually want Plumlee, but he might be the best center they have for next year, so ... maybe. No doubt they'd love the draft pick (or two) - a distant 1st, make it unprotected even plus a couple of 2nds. The sticking point might be in adding young players. I wouldn't want to add Porter but other than that, I'd reluctantly add a forward too.

Then you have to consider salaries and Harris + Barton + Plumlee is far too high for just Beal. Washington would need to add Mahinmi or Bryant to make that work. In order to add another player over $2-3m; Washington would have to add another player also.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#471 » by skywalker33 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:53 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:
TGW wrote:and they sure as hell isn't trading him for that terrible package.
It is not trashy package, but Beal is a 2nd best available player on the market now, right after supermax overpaid Westbrook, so I guess they can get a better package for him. Harris is a good player, but who says they need a good player now if they going to rebuild their team. They probably would be focused on assets, in Denver case, it would be something like Barton+Plumlee+MPJ+Bol+2022 for Bradley Beal, if they want to take the risk with injured players after a bad experience with John Wall.

I agree my suggestion was "light" for Washington. It was simply a starting point. Harris is a slightly younger version of Beal, but not much younger. So there isn't much difference there. I have no doubt they could use Barton and he isn't too old for a rebuild or reload. Not sure they'd actually want Plumlee, but he might be the best center they have for next year, so ... maybe. No doubt they'd love the draft pick (or two) - a distant 1st, make it unprotected even plus a couple of 2nds. The sticking point might be in adding young players. I wouldn't want to add Porter but other than that, I'd reluctantly add a forward too.

Then you have to consider salaries and Harris + Barton + Plumlee is far too high for just Beal. Washington would need to add Mahinmi or Bryant to make that work. In order to add another player over $2-3m; Washington would have to add another player also.


Joker always has a tendency to want to overpay, I'd consider Harris + Barton + 1st (if that's possible) but not giving MPJ + Bol in that deal, too much ceiling potential. Beal is an excellent player but Harris and Barton aren't slouches as I can see their combined production equating to what Beal brings, add in the 1st to add value IMO is good. If they don't want it, keeping Harris and the 1st is OK and given salaries put out this summer, Bartons salary is looking pretty easy to swallow.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#472 » by TunaFish » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:50 pm

I hate to be the canary in the coalmine but I think the off season is over.

My reasoning is that the Nuggets, after adding Bol's salary, will be right up against the luxury tax threshold. I don't know how they planned it to be so close and not go over.

It's true they could make another trade but that is highly doubtful.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#473 » by The Rebel » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:48 pm

The Wizards are not trading Beal, from all indications the owner refuses to really tank and wants to keep him.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#474 » by The Rebel » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:50 pm

TunaFish wrote:I hate to be the canary in the coalmine but I think the off season is over.

My reasoning is that the Nuggets, after adding Bol's salary, will be right up against the luxury tax threshold. I don't know how they planned it to be so close and not go over.

It's true they could make another trade but that is highly doubtful.


I am not so sure that they are done. We are right up against the tax line, but that is with Harris's games and stats played bonuses listed as unlikely. If he plays more games than we are into the tax.

Which I personally do not care about as long as they stay under the apron they do not have to worry about the repeater tax count, but I am sure Stan will be looking to cut salary. I just hope that doesn't mean giving away a young player for nothing.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#475 » by skywalker33 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:21 pm

The Rebel wrote:The Wizards are not trading Beal, from all indications the owner refuses to really tank and wants to keep him.


Well, we're a prime example of not tanking to recover from a down season or two. How many teams that tank are still in the lottery ??
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#476 » by NuggetsWY » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:25 pm

The Rebel wrote:The Wizards are not trading Beal, from all indications the owner refuses to really tank and wants to keep him.

It just doesn't seem like they have a chance to make the ECF, so I think, for the right package, they just might trade Beal. It would probably take more than my suggestion and as I've said, every fan base tends to over-value their own players (of course not you individually, it's the rest of them - said to everyone reading this :lol: ).
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#477 » by NuggetsWY » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:28 pm

It isn't time to panic over cap/tax issues. Remember that is evaluated at year-end (if my feeble old memory serves me right).
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#478 » by Coeur » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:31 pm

Manolito wrote:We can not give away a first round pick until we don't convey the one to OKC (2020 top10 protected). We can only trade 2024 frp, which makes no sense bc who knows who will be in the team at that time.

That means no trades including a first round pick during this complete season.

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could the 2020 pick be guaranteed in a Westbrook trade and open up the ability to trade the 2022?
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#479 » by Coeur » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:33 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:
lavy91 wrote:Hi guys, heat fan here trying to facilitate the Westbrook trade..
Do you think you guys would go for this trade:

Dragic
Derrick Jones Jr.
Your 2022 2nd rounder back (from the Bol Bol trade)

For

Mason Plumlee
Vanderbilt (strictly in to make the money work, can be replaced)
2022 lottery protected 1st

http://tradenba.com/trades/r1QvdzzWr

I know Dragic last year was riddled with injuries but it's nothing major and I think he can be really good still, we just wouldn't need him with Westbrook.
Derrick Jones is still really young and showed some potential last year.

What do you think?

I think this will put our team into the luxury tax which our Ownership doesn't like to pay, unlike Heat or Thunder franchises.

What about this:
MIAMI: Westbrook
OKLAHOMA: Millsap, Barton, Plumlee, R.Anderson, DEN2022
DENVER: Dragic, Gallinari

I don't really want Dragic but okay, that trade isn't terrible but I don't like giving up a 1st on that deal.
Not sure why people (more than one) are looking to bring Gallinari back. I like him and wouldn't object, but I'd rather see what our young forwards can do. That said, Millsap gone and Gallinari in seems okay.

Wait, you guys are joking around about paying OKC for Westbrook but wanting to take gallinari and dragic instead?
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#480 » by skywalker33 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:57 pm

Coeur wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:I think this will put our team into the luxury tax which our Ownership doesn't like to pay, unlike Heat or Thunder franchises.

What about this:
MIAMI: Westbrook
OKLAHOMA: Millsap, Barton, Plumlee, R.Anderson, DEN2022
DENVER: Dragic, Gallinari

I don't really want Dragic but okay, that trade isn't terrible but I don't like giving up a 1st on that deal.
Not sure why people (more than one) are looking to bring Gallinari back. I like him and wouldn't object, but I'd rather see what our young forwards can do. That said, Millsap gone and Gallinari in seems okay.

Wait, you guys are joking around about paying OKC for Westbrook but wanting to take gallinari and dragic instead?


You DO realize both Gallo and Dragic are expiring after this year while Westbrook (who is a terrible fit next to Jokic) has several years at a MAX value that's put us in Cap HELL, c'mon do some research dude !!
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