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2019 Off-Season Questions

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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#481 » by NuggetsWY » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:22 pm

My goodness, let's take the Lakers' approach and trade everyone we have for Westbrook & Wiggins & Chris Paul & Blake Griffin & Gordan Hayward. That way we have five big names - since some seem to want big names more than team players that fit well together.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#482 » by Coeur » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:27 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
Coeur wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:I don't really want Dragic but okay, that trade isn't terrible but I don't like giving up a 1st on that deal.
Not sure why people (more than one) are looking to bring Gallinari back. I like him and wouldn't object, but I'd rather see what our young forwards can do. That said, Millsap gone and Gallinari in seems okay.

Wait, you guys are joking around about paying OKC for Westbrook but wanting to take gallinari and dragic instead?


You DO realize both Gallo and Dragic are expiring after this year while Westbrook (who is a terrible fit next to Jokic) has several years at a MAX value that's put us in Cap HELL, c'mon do some research dude !!
yes I do realize that

How do you maximize the value of the 2 expirers when they’re both super injury prone....


Wait none of that even matters. If you’re worried about money in the difference between Russell Westbrook and those 2 guys it’s not worth it there’s nothing to talk about.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#483 » by Coeur » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:30 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:My goodness, let's take the Lakers' approach and trade everyone we have for Westbrook & Wiggins & Chris Paul & Blake Griffin & Gordan Hayward. That way we have five big names - since some seem to want big names more than team players that fit well together.

No let’s take your plan? Try to hold on to everything and watch value slip away in hope of being a great regular season team


This isn’t a team wit 5 or 6 players wanting to trade 4 of them for 1 guy. This Nugs team is a team w 11 or 12 guys that needs to take advantage of it
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#484 » by Coeur » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:33 pm

Coeur wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Coeur wrote:Wait, you guys are joking around about paying OKC for Westbrook but wanting to take gallinari and dragic instead?


You DO realize both Gallo and Dragic are expiring after this year while Westbrook (who is a terrible fit next to Jokic) has several years at a MAX value that's put us in Cap HELL, c'mon do some research dude !!
yes I do realize that

How do you maximize the value of the 2 expirers when they’re both super injury prone....


Wait none of that even matters. If you’re worried about money in the difference between Russell Westbrook and those 2 guys it’s not worth it there’s nothing to talk about.



I can’t understand anyone that believes that cap hell is caused by your best players. It’s the worst deals. Cap hell would be having Beasley, Harris, Barton, juancho, and Craig all on the roster at what that would cost. Some of those guys will have to go yet you’d rather wait and give up the choice of who leaves and who stays??????
Ig
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#485 » by skywalker33 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:12 am

Coeur wrote:
Coeur wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
You DO realize both Gallo and Dragic are expiring after this year while Westbrook (who is a terrible fit next to Jokic) has several years at a MAX value that's put us in Cap HELL, c'mon do some research dude !!
yes I do realize that

How do you maximize the value of the 2 expirers when they’re both super injury prone....


Wait none of that even matters. If you’re worried about money in the difference between Russell Westbrook and those 2 guys it’s not worth it there’s nothing to talk about.



I can’t understand anyone that believes that cap hell is caused by your best players. It’s the worst deals. Cap hell would be having Beasley, Harris, Barton, juancho, and Craig all on the roster at what that would cost. Some of those guys will have to go yet you’d rather wait and give up the choice of who leaves and who stays??????
Ig


Well, we already know what Westbrook will cost, I also know that whatever each individual contract of Beasley, Harris, Barton, Juancho and Craig wil cost, each individual contract will be easier to trade, especially as Westbrooks skills decline....further. And the underlined comment, you think Westbrook would be a better player than Jokic ??? I tried to help explain perspective but you seem to only be able to see view your own tunnel vision.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#486 » by NuggetsWY » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:41 am

Coeur wrote:
Coeur wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:You DO realize both Gallo and Dragic are expiring after this year while Westbrook (who is a terrible fit next to Jokic) has several years at a MAX value that's put us in Cap HELL, c'mon do some research dude !!
yes I do realize that

How do you maximize the value of the 2 expirers when they’re both super injury prone....

Wait none of that even matters. If you’re worried about money in the difference between Russell Westbrook and those 2 guys it’s not worth it there’s nothing to talk about.

I can’t understand anyone that believes that cap hell is caused by your best players. It’s the worst deals. Cap hell would be having Beasley, Harris, Barton, juancho, and Craig all on the roster at what that would cost. Some of those guys will have to go yet you’d rather wait and give up the choice of who leaves and who stays??????
Ig

Okay, you have an interesting philosophy: trade your best players and find terrible deals.

What everyone else seems to be trying to tell you is that with Barton & Millsap & Harris having bad years, their trade value is quite low. With Beasley & Morris not getting a lot of minutes and looking their worst in the playoffs, their trade value is quite loww. With Porter & Bol & Hernangomez having been injured, their trade value is low. With Murray's inconsistency leaves his trade value low.

You want to trade these men when they are not worth as much as they may be worth next year?
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#487 » by Coeur » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:58 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
Coeur wrote:
Coeur wrote:
yes I do realize that

How do you maximize the value of the 2 expirers when they’re both super injury prone....

Wait none of that even matters. If you’re worried about money in the difference between Russell Westbrook and those 2 guys it’s not worth it there’s nothing to talk about.

I can’t understand anyone that believes that cap hell is caused by your best players. It’s the worst deals. Cap hell would be having Beasley, Harris, Barton, juancho, and Craig all on the roster at what that would cost. Some of those guys will have to go yet you’d rather wait and give up the choice of who leaves and who stays??????
Ig

Okay, you have an interesting philosophy: trade your best players and find terrible deals.

What everyone else seems to be trying to tell you is that with Barton & Millsap & Harris having bad years, their trade value is quite low. With Beasley & Morris not getting a lot of minutes and looking their worst in the playoffs, their trade value is quite loww. With Porter & Bol & Hernangomez having been injured, their trade value is low. With Murray's inconsistency leaves his trade value low.

You want to trade these men when they are not worth as much as they may be worth next year?

No I want to trade them now because Barton/Harris values will not go up in a year. They will go down. Right now harris could unload Barton and still bring value on top of that.


My philosophy is trade your best players?? You haven’t seen Jokic and Murray in any trade ideas. It’s your mistake to think of Gary Harris and millsap as your best players. That’s just a talent evaluation flaw in you.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#488 » by skywalker33 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:30 am

Coeur wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
Coeur wrote:yes I do realize that

How do you maximize the value of the 2 expirers when they’re both super injury prone....

Wait none of that even matters. If you’re worried about money in the difference between Russell Westbrook and those 2 guys it’s not worth it there’s nothing to talk about.

I can’t understand anyone that believes that cap hell is caused by your best players. It’s the worst deals. Cap hell would be having Beasley, Harris, Barton, juancho, and Craig all on the roster at what that would cost. Some of those guys will have to go yet you’d rather wait and give up the choice of who leaves and who stays??????
Ig

Okay, you have an interesting philosophy: trade your best players and find terrible deals.

What everyone else seems to be trying to tell you is that with Barton & Millsap & Harris having bad years, their trade value is quite low. With Beasley & Morris not getting a lot of minutes and looking their worst in the playoffs, their trade value is quite loww. With Porter & Bol & Hernangomez having been injured, their trade value is low. With Murray's inconsistency leaves his trade value low.

You want to trade these men when they are not worth as much as they may be worth next year?

No I want to trade them now because Barton/Harris values will not go up in a year. They will go down. Right now harris could unload Barton and still bring value on top of that.


My philosophy is trade your best players?? You haven’t seen Jokic and Murray in any trade ideas. It’s your mistake to think of Gary Harris and millsap as your best players. That’s just a talent evaluation flaw in you.


So, since LBJ had a production down turn after he came back and played hurt, his production will go down and needs to be traded, at least according to you....great logic.

I get you (and most Nuggets fans) want to get rid of Barton, but with salaries going up during this offseason his deal looks more and more tradable. But you just seem to be looking at "superstar names" rather trades that'll fit with this team and make it better. If you were to offer something for PG13 or Kawhi, I might be in agreement if it didn't rip this team apart but you want someone who'll take the ball out of Jokic's hands and creates black holes, who's shooting pct's are declining, who is on a SuperMax contract....but he's a Name Superstar......doesn't sound like the best plan to me.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#489 » by Coeur » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:41 am

skywalker33 wrote:
Coeur wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:Okay, you have an interesting philosophy: trade your best players and find terrible deals.

What everyone else seems to be trying to tell you is that with Barton & Millsap & Harris having bad years, their trade value is quite low. With Beasley & Morris not getting a lot of minutes and looking their worst in the playoffs, their trade value is quite loww. With Porter & Bol & Hernangomez having been injured, their trade value is low. With Murray's inconsistency leaves his trade value low.

You want to trade these men when they are not worth as much as they may be worth next year?

No I want to trade them now because Barton/Harris values will not go up in a year. They will go down. Right now harris could unload Barton and still bring value on top of that.


My philosophy is trade your best players?? You haven’t seen Jokic and Murray in any trade ideas. It’s your mistake to think of Gary Harris and millsap as your best players. That’s just a talent evaluation flaw in you.


So, since LBJ had a production down turn after he came back and played hurt, his production will go down and needs to be traded, at least according to you....great logic.

I get you (and most Nuggets fans) want to get rid of Barton, but with salaries going up during this offseason his deal looks more and more tradable. But you just seem to be looking at "superstar names" rather trades that'll fit with this team and make it better. If you were to offer something for PG13 or Kawhi, I might be in agreement if it didn't rip this team apart but you want someone who'll take the ball out of Jokic's hands and creates black holes, who's shooting pct's are declining, who is on a SuperMax contract....but he's a Name Superstar......doesn't sound like the best plan to me.

Logic? I think that you just compared Gary Harris to Lebron James?


Westbrook is not a “name superstar”. He’s one of the greatest talents of all time. Real life talent.


The only downside is if he stays a real superstar for 3 full years. But you guys act like right now he’s done? Tell me to watch games again.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#490 » by skywalker33 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:11 am

Coeur wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Coeur wrote:No I want to trade them now because Barton/Harris values will not go up in a year. They will go down. Right now harris could unload Barton and still bring value on top of that.


My philosophy is trade your best players?? You haven’t seen Jokic and Murray in any trade ideas. It’s your mistake to think of Gary Harris and millsap as your best players. That’s just a talent evaluation flaw in you.


So, since LBJ had a production down turn after he came back and played hurt, his production will go down and needs to be traded, at least according to you....great logic.

I get you (and most Nuggets fans) want to get rid of Barton, but with salaries going up during this offseason his deal looks more and more tradable. But you just seem to be looking at "superstar names" rather trades that'll fit with this team and make it better. If you were to offer something for PG13 or Kawhi, I might be in agreement if it didn't rip this team apart but you want someone who'll take the ball out of Jokic's hands and creates black holes, who's shooting pct's are declining, who is on a SuperMax contract....but he's a Name Superstar......doesn't sound like the best plan to me.

Logic? I think that you just compared Gary Harris to Lebron James?


Westbrook is not a “name superstar”. He’s one of the greatest talents of all time. Real life talent.


The only downside is if he stays a real superstar for 3 full years. But you guys act like right now he’s done? Tell me to watch games again.


Please, I didn't compare GH to LBJ, nice try to misdirect and twist my point. To make it easier for you to understand, I used your logic that since LBJ had down play after coming back from his injuries, much like Harris (and Barton for that matter) did, he should be traded BECAUSE HIS PLAY WILL GO DOWN TOO (can you foretell the lotto numbers too ??).

And let's talk about Westbrook. He has the 2nd highest Ball usage in the NBA, that takes the ball out of Jokic's hands and I don't want to see that happen. Westbrook has a career .308 3pt% , does that open up the paint for anyone ??? Even Barton shot better than that. And if you notice his assists, most come in the 4th qtr after he gets his points into double digits.

You can like who you like, but I find most of your trade ideas really stupid, based on names rather than on what's good for this team, I just call it as I see it.

PEACE OUT !!
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#491 » by NuggetsWY » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:43 am

Coeur wrote:It’s your mistake to think of Gary Harris and millsap as your best players. That’s just a talent evaluation flaw in you.

:sleep: Your constant hammering on concepts no one else here is interested in, bores me.
:confused: Your weird concept of logic leaves me rather puzzled as to how you can even come up with this nonsense.
:giveup: I'll give up in trying to reason with you.
:dontknow: I don't know what else to do.

My wife taught our children that if you are arguing with one person, it's no big deal. If you are arguing with two people, perhaps you should consider your position. But she told them, when it seems like everyone in your life is arguing with you and saying you don't make sense --- you're probably wrong.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#492 » by THE J0KER » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:56 am

Supermax Westbrook trade discussion is pointless to me because we can't deal properly with his giant contract since next season when Murray salary will rise from under 5M to over 30M. Russ would be perfect with the teams which lack assists, rebounds, and already has bad efficiency, not Nuggets, so teams like Hornets, Knicks or Suns from being among worst in the league will become overnight playoff contenders with Westbrook joins.

Once we finally solved the problem with missing starter level proven forward thanks to Jeramy Grant trade, the biggest problem I see now is... we have too many useful players to use all and too many talented prospects to develop all of them! Remember when we have 6 PF's so decent PF Kenneth Faried lose all his playing time, or Emmanuel Mudiay case, our #7 draft pick which was a bad fit for our point-center system, and with a reason, he didn't get a proper chance to develop his talent. Or cases of Lyles and Juancho last season. We all know they can be much better both than they are last season if we have more patience, but team fighting for #2 seed on the West since the very first day last season, and we have no time to risk with their shape.

This season if we stay healthy this problem will be bigger than ever. Six our players are in their contract year: Millsap, Grant, Beasley, Plumlee, Juancho, Craig, and literally every one of them will play about 10 minutes less than they deserve by a quality (only in Millsap case the reason is age problem), and that can be toxic. We talking here from the team's perspective how Plumlee will be overpaid for playing just 10-15ppg for $14M this season after losing these extra 5+ PF minutes, but he will be unhappy with that "easy money" too, what will be his next contract after such miserable season?

Maybe the solution is to create a big package for the targeted proven starter level player? Suns just sign Kelly Oubre Jr on 30/2 contract, and this franchise loss for nothing several assets this summer and also lacks depth, so maybe they will like this "bunch for one" type of the deal. For example Barton+Plumlee+JV+Juancho for Oubre. And if we add Harris and 2022FRP to that big package, we can hunt even big names, like Bradley Beal.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#493 » by psimanic1 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Wait wait...You are giving Barton(ok) + backup C + 2 young guys for left handed Barton? No way, I would maybe attach a pick or Juancho or Lyles S&T to it for Oubre, and I like him, but I don't think he can be what we expect from starting SF on our team...
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#494 » by Manolito » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:30 pm

What do you think of Barton x Courtney Lee?

The guy is old but he is an expiring and his 3D fit could be even useful.

I don't know of Dallas would be interested in a ballhog having Luka as ballhandler...

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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#495 » by THE J0KER » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:39 pm

psimanic1 wrote:Wait wait...You are giving Barton(ok) + backup C + 2 young guys for left handed Barton? No way, I would maybe attach a pick or Juancho or Lyles S&T to it for Oubre, and I like him, but I don't think he can be what we expect from starting SF on our team...
Personally, I would in this "big package of small assets for one single notable player" rather targeted some other SF's like Robert Covington for example. I give the example of SF Oubre Jr because he signed yesterday for a franchise which desperately needs a depth, where probably every of those 4 Nuggets players I mentioned will get 20+ mpg, while in Denver if stays healthy Oubre alone will probably get more minutes in next 2 years than Barton, JV, and expiring Plumlee and Juancho all together, because team are so stacked right now! And it is unfair to compare Oubre with Barton, where Oubre is 56%TS% (Barton 50%) 23y old which still improving. His year-by-year PPG stats are 4-6-12-15, while Juancho which is actually older has 5-3-6 ups and down career so far.

Manolito wrote:What do you think of Barton x Courtney Lee?

The guy is old but he is an expiring and his 3D fit could be even useful.

I don't know of Dallas would be interested in a ballhog having Luka as ballhandler...

It would be a good deal IMO. Courtney Lee will not complain too much about reduced playing time like Barton, and more important, he is expiring.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#496 » by Coeur » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:25 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:
Coeur wrote:It’s your mistake to think of Gary Harris and millsap as your best players. That’s just a talent evaluation flaw in you.

:sleep: Your constant hammering on concepts no one else here is interested in, bores me.
:confused: Your weird concept of logic leaves me rather puzzled as to how you can even come up with this nonsense.
:giveup: I'll give up in trying to reason with you.
:dontknow: I don't know what else to do.

My wife taught our children that if you are arguing with one person, it's no big deal. If you are arguing with two people, perhaps you should consider your position. But she told them, when it seems like everyone in your life is arguing with you and saying you don't make sense --- you're probably wrong.

I get you. I get why you won’t defend your statements.


You will see through time that I’m better at evaluating talent than you. But for annoying any of you guys I am sorry. Im paying for part of this ****. I get that it doesn’t give me extra rights to complain but I’ve been following Nugs for a long time and it’s closer than ever. I don’t want a top 2 seed. I want a title. The current roster will be a great regular season team


How many season tickets do you buy and for how long ?
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#497 » by NuggetsWY » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:35 pm

Coeur wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
Coeur wrote:It’s your mistake to think of Gary Harris and millsap as your best players. That’s just a talent evaluation flaw in you.

:sleep: Your constant hammering on concepts no one else here is interested in, bores me.
:confused: Your weird concept of logic leaves me rather puzzled as to how you can even come up with this nonsense.
:giveup: I'll give up in trying to reason with you.
:dontknow: I don't know what else to do.

My wife taught our children that if you are arguing with one person, it's no big deal. If you are arguing with two people, perhaps you should consider your position. But she told them, when it seems like everyone in your life is arguing with you and saying you don't make sense --- you're probably wrong.

I get you. I get why you won’t defend your statements.

You will see through time that I’m better at evaluating talent than you. But for annoying any of you guys I am sorry. Im paying for part of this ****. I get that it doesn’t give me extra rights to complain but I’ve been following Nugs for a long time and it’s closer than ever. I don’t want a top 2 seed. I want a title. The current roster will be a great regular season team

How many season tickets do you buy and for how long ?

I've been following the Nuggets since they were called "The Rockets".
I don't buy season tickets because I have limited strength and mobility and live more than 100 miles from "The Can".
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#498 » by Coeur » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:12 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:
Coeur wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote: :sleep: Your constant hammering on concepts no one else here is interested in, bores me.
:confused: Your weird concept of logic leaves me rather puzzled as to how you can even come up with this nonsense.
:giveup: I'll give up in trying to reason with you.
:dontknow: I don't know what else to do.

My wife taught our children that if you are arguing with one person, it's no big deal. If you are arguing with two people, perhaps you should consider your position. But she told them, when it seems like everyone in your life is arguing with you and saying you don't make sense --- you're probably wrong.

I get you. I get why you won’t defend your statements.

You will see through time that I’m better at evaluating talent than you. But for annoying any of you guys I am sorry. Im paying for part of this ****. I get that it doesn’t give me extra rights to complain but I’ve been following Nugs for a long time and it’s closer than ever. I don’t want a top 2 seed. I want a title. The current roster will be a great regular season team

How many season tickets do you buy and for how long ?

I've been following the Nuggets since they were called "The Rockets".
I don't buy season tickets because I have limited strength and mobility and live more than 100 miles from "The Can".
i always figured you were maybe a Cheyenne guy or a wyo native like myself. I’m not going to many games either and I buy the tickets for my business. I’m at my house in LV and pissed as hell My schedule got screwed this week. I should’ve seen every second of summer league from 50 feet away. I was just trying to explain why I’m not bothered by being overboard with this message board. I love you guys flow. Disagree some ideas.


Mostly I don’t want to offend you guys but yeah challenge everything. This is all just talk. I’m not allowed to do social media so this is my only “fake world”



For all of you I will spend a little time and make a good thread to talk about the future and why I think this



I pushed hard during draft so I don’t bother the season w that. Push hard about trades so it doesn’t have to be during the season.

Ok long story short. I feel bad for being annoying. But only kind of. I’ll make it up next year. All of you start planning summer league trip next year if you’re mobile and enough for a big week. I’ll get the Las Vegas National Golf rounds
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#499 » by THE J0KER » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:08 am

OK, Westbrook saga is over.

Out of all-star level players or close, I guess right now is available Chris Paul, Bradley Beal, and Kevin Love.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#500 » by Timmyyy » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:53 pm

Coeur wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
Coeur wrote:It’s your mistake to think of Gary Harris and millsap as your best players. That’s just a talent evaluation flaw in you.

Your constant hammering on concepts no one else here is interested in, bores me.
:confused: Your weird concept of logic leaves me rather puzzled as to how you can even come up with this nonsense.
:giveup: I'll give up in trying to reason with you.
:dontknow: I don't know what else to do.

My wife taught our children that if you are arguing with one person, it's no big deal. If you are arguing with two people, perhaps you should consider your position. But she told them, when it seems like everyone in your life is arguing with you and saying you don't make sense --- you're probably wrong.

I get you. I get why you won’t defend your statements.


You will see through time that I’m better at evaluating talent than you. But for annoying any of you guys I am sorry. Im paying for part of this ****. I get that it doesn’t give me extra rights to complain but I’ve been following Nugs for a long time and it’s closer than ever. I don’t want a top 2 seed. I want a title. The current roster will be a great regular season team


How many season tickets do you buy and for how long ?

Wait aren't you the guy that is consistently posting about how the Nuggets should trade for Wiggins? I mean your the last human being on earth that still does not understand that such an obviously bad player isn't good. I would say you are the only one thinking so high of your abilities.

Btw Gary Harris and Paul Millsap are our most impactful players after Jokic. We have +/- stats that give us a solid idea about impact of players on point differentials of basketball games and they show us how important Gary and Paul are. Just another example that shows that your high opinion of yourself (still have to laugh that you really wrote that :D) is completely unjustified.

But hey, dream on.

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