Nugs depth: Use it or...

[Coeur]

Murray/Morris
Harris/Beasley
Craig/Barton/juancho
Milsap
Jokic/plumlee


10 guys! Hang on. I believe in some other guys as rotation players

Vanderbilt
Michael Porter JR
Vlat the Gat Cancar

I



Use that depth to make consolidation trades, or keep the deep roster together? Both sides have benifits and risks- what are they?

[Coeur]

I just can’t help but think that
Gary Harris/Barton/milsap is over 60 million dollars of nba salary. That is positive value salary.


You have to think trade that group I’d like me you believe that
Beasley- can step his game to next level
T Craig- is a legit starting level player
Mpj- will be available and worthy of pt
Vanderbilt- might be an impact player

Those guys make me believe a lot of what those 3 could be made up by additional time to mb, tc, and new roles to mpj, and JV + Cancar


Well if they could come close enough to covering for Harris/milsap/Barton now think about what those 3 could be worth in a trade? I think a lot.

[Coeur]

Monte Morris is a different example of use of value.

2 more years at leave min for what he can do? That’s a steal. That’s value right there in keeping him and playing him as a rotation player for “free”


2 things
1- if another team sees him as possible starter or loves that same backup pg/min salary value then he’s a trade piece right?
2- if he falls out of the Nugs rotation he has no trade value.


Wait 3: I think they turned him into worth 2 2nds or better in value and that they could do it again with the right 2nd round pick this year. Lugentz Dort

[Coeur]

Beasley
Juancho
Torrey Craig
Milsap

To keep them on the roster through this season you have to commit to signing them long term or losing him for nothing. IMO that creates more chance of a bad value contract added to what a lot of people believe is already Barton and some say plumlee. Eventually Harris.


To keep any of 4 you have to be really sure they are rotation players 2 and 3 seasons from now or you made the wrong choice (milsap for 1 year excluded)

[Coeur]

Murray
Beasley
Craig/mpj
Vanderbilt/Cancar
Jokic/plumlee/welsh

Keeping them and trading Morris, Harris, Barton, Milsap and future pick
For
-1 elite talent
-2 picks
-and some salary relief/cap

Harris/Barton/milsap
For
Wiggins, Saric, 11(Clarke), 2nd


Point guard- Murray/Morris/Dort
Center- Jokic/Plumlee/Welsh (Saric)

Then you figure out 2-4 with this?
Wiggins/Beasley/t Craig
Mpj/juancho/Clarke/Vanderbilt
& Saric

[VCfor3]

Murray
Beasley
Craig/mpj
Vanderbilt/Cancar
Jokic/plumlee/welsh

Keeping them and trading Morris, Harris, Barton, Milsap and future pick
For
-1 elite talent
-2 picks
-and some salary relief/cap

Harris/Barton/milsap
For
Wiggins, Saric, 11(Clarke), 2nd


Point guard- Murray/Morris/Dort
Center- Jokic/Plumlee/Welsh (Saric)

Then you figure out 2-4 with this?
Wiggins/Beasley/t Craig
Mpj/juancho/Clarke/Vanderbilt
& Saric

I think that would downgrade the Nuggets. Wiggins isn't efficient and kills your salary cap for years to come. I'd rather keep Harris.

[Coeur]

Murray
Beasley
Craig/mpj
Vanderbilt/Cancar
Jokic/plumlee/welsh

Keeping them and trading Morris, Harris, Barton, Milsap and future pick
For
-1 elite talent
-2 picks
-and some salary relief/cap

Harris/Barton/milsap
For
Wiggins, Saric, 11(Clarke), 2nd


Point guard- Murray/Morris/Dort
Center- Jokic/Plumlee/Welsh (Saric)

Then you figure out 2-4 with this?
Wiggins/Beasley/t Craig
Mpj/juancho/Clarke/Vanderbilt
& Saric

I think that would downgrade the Nuggets. Wiggins isn't efficient and kills your salary cap for years to come. I'd rather keep Harris.

I look at that as Gary Harris and will Barton added up is 35-40 million a year and Wiggins and Michael porter jr are 35-40 mill a year.


Nugs then have Malik Beasley and juancho hernangomez and Torrey Craig to sign long term after next season


Can’t be paying 6 different 2/3’s big contracts. Wiggins consolidates the 2 biggest contracts so far and opens up a little more opportunity for that group to prove itself and expand their roles


The part of this trade nobody looks at that I think is a huge win is up front. Milsap was more than perfect in his time in Denver. I didn’t think there was a chance in the world that that was a good free agent signing but it was better than good. And he would do the same thing for Minnesota. But the Nugs getting Saric and a pick for Clarke would be the best way possible to be able to cut a bunch of salary without losing everything by letting Milsap go in the trade.


Nugs secret weapons are the Forwards none of the fans will ever want to trade. porter Jr and Vanderbilt are both secret weapons. So is a guy named Cancar. If you added Clarke who I think is going to be the best Zion/giannes/durant stopped in the league and one of the most versatile defensive stars

[skywalker33]

Well, almost had a one-man thread there

[Coeur]

Well, almost had a one-man thread there

I knew I’d catch grief for that. Wanted to break up post knowing it was already prob run on and poorly written.


What do you think would happen if 2 years from now

Barton 14
Harris 20
Beasley 14
Juancho 10
Craig 10
What if MPJ can play? Vanderbilt?


The contracts you can’t get rid of then unless you attatch the guys you don’t want to trade.


Nugs salary could get out of control trying to stay 11-12 deep. So the choice is trade out contracts or give value away for nothing or sign bad value deals. There’s only one good one of those choices

[NuggetsWY]

Let's see; one superstar at $30m (and they come higher)
plus solid costars at $20m each (and they come higher)
and two other starters and two solid bench players at $15m (and they come higher
all of that totals $100m
and now you need eight more players - all of whom are now over the salary cap.

To stay under the luxury tax, all of those need to be paid less than $25m or $3m each.

That is why NBA teams need serious cap management and can not afford to reward loyalty and fan favorites.
That is why depth is so difficult to maintain without living off from rookie contracts (hard to do)
and veterans nearing the end of their career that are willing to take the veteran minimum.

[Coeur]

Let's see; one superstar at $30m (and they come higher)
plus solid costars at $20m each (and they come higher)
and two other starters and two solid bench players at $15m (and they come higher
all of that totals $100m
and now you need eight more players - all of whom are now over the salary cap.

To stay under the luxury tax, all of those need to be paid less than $25m or $3m each.

That is why NBA teams need serious cap management and can not afford to reward loyalty and fan favorites.
That is why depth is so difficult to maintain without living off from rookie contracts (hard to do)
and veterans nearing the end of their career that are willing to take the veteran minimum.

I’m wanting to turn a 30,20,13 into a 30, 3,3 with the Wiggins trade idea for a reason.


I just feel a lot better about the contracts and games of Beasley and Craig a couple years from now than Harris and Barton

[NuggetsWY]

Let's see; one superstar at $30m (and they come higher)
plus solid costars at $20m each (and they come higher)
and two other starters and two solid bench players at $15m (and they come higher
all of that totals $100m
and now you need eight more players - all of whom are now over the salary cap.

To stay under the luxury tax, all of those need to be paid less than $25m or $3m each.

That is why NBA teams need serious cap management and can not afford to reward loyalty and fan favorites.
That is why depth is so difficult to maintain without living off from rookie contracts (hard to do)
and veterans nearing the end of their career that are willing to take the veteran minimum.

I’m wanting to turn a 30,20,13 into a 30, 3,3 with the Wiggins trade idea for a reason.

I just feel a lot better about the contracts and games of Beasley and Craig a couple years from now than Harris and Barton

I'd feel great about turning 30,20,13 into 30,3,3 if Wiggins wasn't involved.

[Manolito]

Are we really discussing about trading for Wiggins???

Sent from my Aquaris M5 using RealGM mobile app

[Mac1958]

Yeah, let's see what Porter Jr can do.

Wiggins, no thanks.

[Coeur]

Yeah, let's see what Porter Jr can do.

Wiggins, no thanks.

How do we see what porter can do with Harris/Barton/Craig/juancho/Beasley all at those 2 spots and all in a way considered starter or main rotation players?



Barton is a bad contract with the Nugs next season unless he is used as the backup PG. Beasley’s next step and having MPJ can only take away from WB and GH. Also Torrey Craig is a stud. And what if Vanderbilt is and is used at SF?


Wiggins is to consolidate (Harris and Barton together are just a little more) and more importantly to take a shot at having an elite talent to put with Jokic/Murray. Wiggins would get so many easy opportunities that he’s never been afforded. He’s not a creator but in the Nugs system a guy with his skill set could be the missing piece the Nugs need to win in the playoffs

[NuggetsWY]

Yeah, let's see what Porter Jr can do.
Wiggins, no thanks.

How do we see what porter can do with Harris/Barton/Craig/juancho/Beasley all at those 2 spots and all in a way considered starter or main rotation players?

How to see what people can do? Good question - this year we learned somewhat because of injuries but then stopped using Lyles & Hernangomez and never gave Lydon a real chance plus Craig was shelved for a little while.

We are already adding Vanderbilt & Porter & maybe Cancar to Barton & Craig & Millsap (and maybe Lyles and/or Lydon?) so for the three new guys ... yeah, hard to find minutes.

Barton is a bad contract with the Nugs next season unless he is used as the backup PG. Beasley’s next step and having MPJ can only take away from WB and GH. Also Torrey Craig is a stud. And what if Vanderbilt is and is used at SF?

Barton is a bad contract, or so most of us believe but he's a worse contract if he's used as the backup PG IMO. He's best used as a bench scorer that gets limited minutes unless he's really hot.

Craig is a solid defensive player, maybe better but his offense is streaky and he's older than most of our players. I like him off the bench in limited minutes.

Yeah, what to do with Beasley? I love Harris as the starter getting 30 mpg. Give Beasley the rest and give him some SF minutes. He fits there better than Barton and Barton only got around 25 mpg last year. So Beasley would be stealing from Craig and younger players.

Wiggins is to consolidate (Harris and Barton together are just a little more) and more importantly to take a shot at having an elite talent to put with Jokic/Murray. Wiggins would get so many easy opportunities that he’s never been afforded. He’s not a creator but in the Nugs system a guy with his skill set could be the missing piece the Nugs need to win in the playoffs

My preference for Wiggins would be to send him to our competition. He doesn't try on defense, except occasionally and his offense is not really team oriented. I would call Wiggins disappointing and certainly not elite. You do point out Wiggins greatest talent - movement. But if they will do it, that's what all our guards and Craig and Hernangomez and others can do as well. Millsap & Plumlee are probably the only two that don't fit that model.

The team as composed and based on Malone's rotations this year:

Jokic --- Plumlee
Millsap -- Plumlee (plus Hernangomez & Lyles in spot minutes)
Barton -- Craig (plus Beasley & Hernangomez in spot minutes)
Harris --- Murray --- Beasley
Murray -- Morris

very few minutes for Thomas, Vanderbilt, Lydon, and others

I don't see many minutes for Porter, Vanderbilt, Cancar unless Millsap & Barton & Lyles & Lydon are all gone.

[Mac1958]

Yeah, let's see what Porter Jr can do.
Wiggins, no thanks.

How do we see what porter can do with Harris/Barton/Craig/juancho/Beasley all at those 2 spots and all in a way considered starter or main rotation players?

How to see what people can do? Good question - this year we learned somewhat because of injuries but then stopped using Lyles & Hernangomez and never gave Lydon a real chance plus Craig was shelved for a little while.

We are already adding Vanderbilt & Porter & maybe Cancar to Barton & Craig & Millsap (and maybe Lyles and/or Lydon?) so for the three new guys ... yeah, hard to find minutes.

Barton is a bad contract with the Nugs next season unless he is used as the backup PG. Beasley’s next step and having MPJ can only take away from WB and GH. Also Torrey Craig is a stud. And what if Vanderbilt is and is used at SF?

Barton is a bad contract, or so most of us believe but he's a worse contract if he's used as the backup PG IMO. He's best used as a bench scorer that gets limited minutes unless he's really hot.

Craig is a solid defensive player, maybe better but his offense is streaky and he's older than most of our players. I like him off the bench in limited minutes.

Yeah, what to do with Beasley? I love Harris as the starter getting 30 mpg. Give Beasley the rest and give him some SF minutes. He fits there better than Barton and Barton only got around 25 mpg last year. So Beasley would be stealing from Craig and younger players.

Wiggins is to consolidate (Harris and Barton together are just a little more) and more importantly to take a shot at having an elite talent to put with Jokic/Murray. Wiggins would get so many easy opportunities that he’s never been afforded. He’s not a creator but in the Nugs system a guy with his skill set could be the missing piece the Nugs need to win in the playoffs

My preference for Wiggins would be to send him to our competition. He doesn't try on defense, except occasionally and his offense is not really team oriented. I would call Wiggins disappointing and certainly not elite. You do point out Wiggins greatest talent - movement. But if they will do it, that's what all our guards and Craig and Hernangomez and others can do as well. Millsap & Plumlee are probably the only two that don't fit that model.

The team as composed and based on Malone's rotations this year:

Jokic --- Plumlee
Millsap -- Plumlee (plus Hernangomez & Lyles in spot minutes)
Barton -- Craig (plus Beasley & Hernangomez in spot minutes)
Harris --- Murray --- Beasley
Murray -- Morris

very few minutes for Thomas, Vanderbilt, Lydon, and others

I don't see many minutes for Porter, Vanderbilt, Cancar unless Millsap & Barton & Lyles & Lydon are all gone.

Do you guys think I'm overestimating Porter? I'd think Malone is hoping he's as healthy as advertised, steps right in with 15-17ppg, and ends up in the ROY conversation.

Obviously that depends on his health, but he's saying he's 100% and will be playing in the summer league.

[NuggetsWY]

Do you guys think I'm overestimating Porter? I'd think Malone is hoping he's as healthy as advertised, steps right in with 15-17ppg, and ends up in the ROY conversation.

Obviously that depends on his health, but he's saying he's 100% and will be playing in the summer league.

Not sure what to think. Drafting is always a gamble and Porter hasn't played in around 1.5 years. But he was considered #1 in his year coming out of high school and I saw a video of him taking 3pt shots recently and it looked good.

[The Rebel]

I would not take Wiggins for Barton even if the Twolves throw in multiple picks. No sane front office is trading for him on that contract especially when his own teammate basically called him out.


MPJ is a lot of hype, the only way to find out if he deserves the hype is to get him on the court. Until then I am not basing any kind of plan off of him, but at the same time with Juancho and Craig at SF than I am not as concerned about finding a SF.

[skywalker33]

Well, I am not against a consolidation trade depending on the amount vs the return. Right now the only two players I would consider that I feel could see meshing with Joker and Murray are Kawhi or AD and both will cost an arm and a leg.