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Michael Porter Jr

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Indomitable
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#341 » by Indomitable » Mon Mar 1, 2021 6:03 am

skywalker33 wrote:
Indomitable wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
This has been an overkill trade proposal, while DEN could utilize Pascal’s services, we aren’t giving up MPJ for him. Siakam is really a 3rd/4th option but is paid as a 1st option. His playoff performance last year showed his true value.

Raptors really come out ahead here, no thanks

Why would Cleveland make this trade. Drummond is a free agent. You need to add a sweetener.


DEN isn't adding ANYTHING to this deal, no way they'd do it. But to answer your question, perhaps to get something instead of nothing for a free agent. There is the cap space for CLE too...but ask the DAL fan who proposed it, no idea why he'd think this would work, probably to just get MPJ out of the West seeing what kinda force he's turning into :wink:

They have cap room. Nobody desires a beatup barton or broken down milisap.

So they get nothing. It makes more sense for them to take Siakim. He would play well in their system.

Everything you offered has seen its best days. They down not require you for this trade.
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#342 » by U hova » Mon Mar 1, 2021 9:50 am

Indomitable wrote:Why would Cleveland make this trade. Drummond is a free agent. You need to add a sweetener.

I used to go by this viewpoint too, but sometimes teams really just aren't attractive enough to sign contributors even with caproom in free agency - sometimes agents see that extra unused cap room and grub out a few extra million on extension for scrubs which cripple the team long term

Although a tough pill to swallow in that case I'd probably just take anything over nothing
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#343 » by Maf » Mon Mar 1, 2021 11:12 am

Mike lorenzo wrote:Mavs fan who comes in Peace .. I am European and I also support you ... what would they think of this trade ...
Denver
In: Siakam / S.Johnson

Raptors
In:Drummond/Porte

Cavs
In:Millsap/Barton



I doubt you'll find anyone here who would take that. First, most of our fans are too high on MPJ.

I say no because we already look like Snowhite and four dwarves enough. So if we take Siakam and give away three of our bigger players (yes, on our team Will Barton is bigger player) who will play SF? Facu?
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#344 » by TunaFish » Mon Mar 1, 2021 1:57 pm

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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#345 » by Mike lorenzo » Mon Mar 1, 2021 2:13 pm

Maf wrote:
Mike lorenzo wrote:Mavs fan who comes in Peace .. I am European and I also support you ... what would they think of this trade ...
Denver
In: Siakam / S.Johnson

Raptors
In:Drummond/Porte

Cavs
In:Millsap/Barton



I doubt you'll find anyone here who would take that. First, most of our fans are too high on MPJ.

I say no because we already look like Snowhite and four dwarves enough. So if we take Siakam and give away three of our bigger players (yes, on our team Will Barton is bigger player) who will play SF? Facu?

do not argue with you ... they know better the needs of the team.
My argument ... I thought, they are prepared to win now. Porter is younger, and has a huge goal scorer ceiling. but ...
I thought her health was a concern. Siakam today. has better scoring numbers, rebounder, passer and above all much better defender I think a better fit with Jokic ..
It also includes the trade to S.Johnson, the boy can defend a little.
Surely he would have to make a trade later ... Hollis Jefferson / MKG free agency, Ariza if cut or Harkles should be accessible
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#346 » by TunaFish » Mon Mar 1, 2021 2:57 pm

Mike lorenzo wrote:
Maf wrote:
Mike lorenzo wrote:Mavs fan who comes in Peace .. I am European and I also support you ... what would they think of this trade ...
Denver
In: Siakam / S.Johnson

Raptors
In:Drummond/Porte

Cavs
In:Millsap/Barton



I doubt you'll find anyone here who would take that. First, most of our fans are too high on MPJ.

I say no because we already look like Snowhite and four dwarves enough. So if we take Siakam and give away three of our bigger players (yes, on our team Will Barton is bigger player) who will play SF? Facu?

do not argue with you ... they know better the needs of the team.
My argument ... I thought, they are prepared to win now. Porter is younger, and has a huge goal scorer ceiling. but ...
I thought her health was a concern. Siakam today. has better scoring numbers, rebounder, passer and above all much better defender I think a better fit with Jokic ..
It also includes the trade to S.Johnson, the boy can defend a little.
Surely he would have to make a trade later ... Hollis Jefferson / MKG free agency, Ariza if cut or Harkles should be accessible


MPJ is a top prospect, one you can not easily find. At a minimum presently, you expect a double double because of his excellent rebounding but his shooting is lights out as he learns the pro game. They wouldn't trade him for Harden, think about that. His back surgery in the past has not effected him at all. He is healthy and he is improving week by week. He has the ability to be a top 10 player in the NBA in the future, perhaps in the not so distant future. If you watch him play, you would know this.
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#347 » by skywalker33 » Mon Mar 1, 2021 5:49 pm

Indomitable wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Indomitable wrote:Why would Cleveland make this trade. Drummond is a free agent. You need to add a sweetener.


DEN isn't adding ANYTHING to this deal, no way they'd do it. But to answer your question, perhaps to get something instead of nothing for a free agent. There is the cap space for CLE too...but ask the DAL fan who proposed it, no idea why he'd think this would work, probably to just get MPJ out of the West seeing what kinda force he's turning into :wink:

They have cap room. Nobody desires a beatup barton or broken down milisap.

So they get nothing. It makes more sense for them to take Siakim. He would play well in their system.

Everything you offered has seen its best days. They down not require you for this trade.


You're not that bright, are you, reading what was written doesn't work where you come from ?? This is NOT a deal that a DENVER fan is proposing, WE OFFERED NOTHING !! We don't want this deal, perhaps you should talk to the guy that posted this, he's a DAL fan.
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#348 » by Maf » Mon Mar 1, 2021 11:04 pm

Mike lorenzo wrote:
Maf wrote:
Mike lorenzo wrote:Mavs fan who comes in Peace .. I am European and I also support you ... what would they think of this trade ...
Denver
In: Siakam / S.Johnson

Raptors
In:Drummond/Porte

Cavs
In:Millsap/Barton



I doubt you'll find anyone here who would take that. First, most of our fans are too high on MPJ.

I say no because we already look like Snowhite and four dwarves enough. So if we take Siakam and give away three of our bigger players (yes, on our team Will Barton is bigger player) who will play SF? Facu?

do not argue with you ... they know better the needs of the team.
My argument ... I thought, they are prepared to win now. Porter is younger, and has a huge goal scorer ceiling. but ...
I thought her health was a concern. Siakam today. has better scoring numbers, rebounder, passer and above all much better defender I think a better fit with Jokic ..
It also includes the trade to S.Johnson, the boy can defend a little.
Surely he would have to make a trade later ... Hollis Jefferson / MKG free agency, Ariza if cut or Harkles should be accessible



I understand you. Siakam is all-star, MPJ prospect. So it does seem like good idea. Or at least something you should think about. But our organization is patient, we are not in some championship or bust mode. And I do agree personaly I am afraid anytime MPJ hits the floor hard. I mean backs are the bitch.

I am also not interested in Stanley Johnson... He might be able to defend a little but offensively he might be even worse than Torrey Craig who played for us. And again, we'd need starting caliber SF. Plus one of the main Nuggets problems is too many new faces, they need to learn play with each other. So trading guys familiar with themselves for new players might not help to win more games.

Your offer I'd call: "Thanks for the offer but no. Have a nice day." And I am sure you will not find single Nuggets fan here who would say yes.
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#349 » by The Rebel » Tue Mar 2, 2021 4:33 am

Mike lorenzo wrote:
Maf wrote:
Mike lorenzo wrote:Mavs fan who comes in Peace .. I am European and I also support you ... what would they think of this trade ...
Denver
In: Siakam / S.Johnson

Raptors
In:Drummond/Porte

Cavs
In:Millsap/Barton



I doubt you'll find anyone here who would take that. First, most of our fans are too high on MPJ.

I say no because we already look like Snowhite and four dwarves enough. So if we take Siakam and give away three of our bigger players (yes, on our team Will Barton is bigger player) who will play SF? Facu?

do not argue with you ... they know better the needs of the team.
My argument ... I thought, they are prepared to win now. Porter is younger, and has a huge goal scorer ceiling. but ...
I thought her health was a concern. Siakam today. has better scoring numbers, rebounder, passer and above all much better defender I think a better fit with Jokic ..
It also includes the trade to S.Johnson, the boy can defend a little.
Surely he would have to make a trade later ... Hollis Jefferson / MKG free agency, Ariza if cut or Harkles should be accessible

I don't know where this idea that the Nuggets have to win now has come from. I think even most Denver fans would agree we overachieved last season, but it showed the potential of the team. Jokic is a superstar, Murray is an all star talent, but we changed out 9 guys in the last year, 7 of them over the offseason. We added 4 rookies, 2 guys who have spent more time in Europe or the G league than NBA, and 1 experienced vet. That does not say that we have a front office desperate to win this season. We have JOkic for this season and then the following 2, which appears to be more than enough time to develop MPJ, NNaji, and Hampton to being good contributors.

Any player can get a career ending/altering injury at any time, I have watched it happen to some of the highest potential stars that have come into the NBA, I also remember a superstar prospect overdosed the week of the draft. Right now MPJ is healthy and from all indications the medical staff and front office does not view it as a major long term issue.

Nobody will argue that Siakam is better today than MPJ is, but you will plenty of argument if that will be true even in the next year. Despite getting covid and being out for 3 weeks MPJ's numbers are improving across the board, even over what he did in the bubble last year. He has shown the ability to be a good man to man defender, a good weakside shotblocker and rebounder, and most importantly he does not need the ball in his hands to be successful on offense. He is exactly what we need with Jokic and Murray, he just has to quit making the young player mistakes that he makes.

The entire reason we let Craig walk in the offseason was that he was a huge detriment on offense, with him and Plumlee on the court we might as well have been playing 3 on 5 on offense. None of us want to see that again. While Dozier is still getting stronger he has shown plenty of potential of being the SF defender we need, and he is not totally incompetent on offense.

Most teams that are playing 6 guys with 3 years or less experience in the NBA and that changed out half of their roster over 1 offeeason are bottom dwellers. Most people who paid attention knew we would start out slow and that the team would improve over the season. We are right on track despite the injuries and covid mess.

If Nnaji, Hampton, Dozier, and especially MPJ continue to improve at the rate they are improving at right now for the next year, than we have a very good chance to have a contender next year, while still being a very young team.
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#350 » by skywalker33 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 4:50 am

The Rebel wrote:
Mike lorenzo wrote:
Maf wrote:

I doubt you'll find anyone here who would take that. First, most of our fans are too high on MPJ.

I say no because we already look like Snowhite and four dwarves enough. So if we take Siakam and give away three of our bigger players (yes, on our team Will Barton is bigger player) who will play SF? Facu?

do not argue with you ... they know better the needs of the team.
My argument ... I thought, they are prepared to win now. Porter is younger, and has a huge goal scorer ceiling. but ...
I thought her health was a concern. Siakam today. has better scoring numbers, rebounder, passer and above all much better defender I think a better fit with Jokic ..
It also includes the trade to S.Johnson, the boy can defend a little.
Surely he would have to make a trade later ... Hollis Jefferson / MKG free agency, Ariza if cut or Harkles should be accessible

I don't know where this idea that the Nuggets have to win now has come from. I think even most Denver fans would agree we overachieved last season, but it showed the potential of the team. Jokic is a superstar, Murray is an all star talent, but we changed out 9 guys in the last year, 7 of them over the offseason. We added 4 rookies, 2 guys who have spent more time in Europe or the G league than NBA, and 1 experienced vet. That does not say that we have a front office desperate to win this season. We have JOkic for this season and then the following 2, which appears to be more than enough time to develop MPJ, NNaji, and Hampton to being good contributors.

Any player can get a career ending/altering injury at any time, I have watched it happen to some of the highest potential stars that have come into the NBA, I also remember a superstar prospect overdosed the week of the draft. Right now MPJ is healthy and from all indications the medical staff and front office does not view it as a major long term issue.

Nobody will argue that Siakam is better today than MPJ is, but you will plenty of argument if that will be true even in the next year. Despite getting covid and being out for 3 weeks MPJ's numbers are improving across the board, even over what he did in the bubble last year. He has shown the ability to be a good man to man defender, a good weakside shotblocker and rebounder, and most importantly he does not need the ball in his hands to be successful on offense. He is exactly what we need with Jokic and Murray, he just has to quit making the young player mistakes that he makes.

The entire reason we let Craig walk in the offseason was that he was a huge detriment on offense, with him and Plumlee on the court we might as well have been playing 3 on 5 on offense. None of us want to see that again. While Dozier is still getting stronger he has shown plenty of potential of being the SF defender we need, and he is not totally incompetent on offense.

Most teams that are playing 6 guys with 3 years or less experience in the NBA and that changed out half of their roster over 1 offeeason are bottom dwellers. Most people who paid attention knew we would start out slow and that the team would improve over the season. We are right on track despite the injuries and covid mess.

If Nnaji, Hampton, Dozier, and especially MPJ continue to improve at the rate they are improving at right now for the next year, than we have a very good chance to have a contender next year, while still being a very young team.



100% correct !!!!!
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#351 » by TunaFish » Tue Mar 2, 2021 5:09 am

Against the Bulls, MPJ had 17 points and 15 rebounds. He fit seamlessly into the offense and defense and seemed to play more like a veteran. He had a similar performance against OKC two nights ago. There seems to be a pattern developing where the team looks for him to shoot to start the game and then scoring is turned over to Jokic and Murray. He is finding chemistry with the starting unit and more importantly they are winning.
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#352 » by mirmil » Tue Mar 2, 2021 8:43 am

After last couple of matches you have to notice how MPJ is improving on defense in every next game. His development on that end of the court is remarkable. He puts more real effort out there. He is been constantly good over the first halves at scoring. However I don't see the reason why he shouldn't put those numbers in the second half as well. If we can get his confidence at the same level as in the first half it is going to be more than great. He has lot room to develop his defense and his ball handling, and with already mentioned 2nd half confidence it will work great for us.
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#353 » by Timmyyy » Tue Mar 2, 2021 10:45 am

Just rewatched the first 2-3 quarters of the last few games where Porter played PF.

Chicago:
Main defender Patrick Williams - Combo forward, more on the classical SF side actually
Mostly scored on Coby White and Garrett Temple - Guards

OKC:
Main defender Darius Bazley - Power forward, pretty slender one
Mostly scored on SGA - Guard

Washington:
Main defender Rui Hachimura - Power forward, from the build not too far away from some SF in the league/Dani Avdija - SF for now
Mostly scored on the above mentioned, more on Avdija - SF

Portland:
Main defender Robert Covington - Combo forward
Mostly scored on Covington, sprinkled in some points against Trent and Melo - SF/PF and Guard

I did this because I don't buy the narrative of MPJ being so much better at PF. He is a combo forward. Too much hight and length for smaller defenders and too quick for bigger ones. In a league where there is so much switching and the forward positions are close to the same it really doesn't matter at all what position he plays.

I think its more about two other things.
1. I have the unpopular opinion that Malone did the right thing with MPJ. Pulled him out when his defense was trash and he wasn't focused and did not let him close the game when his shot wasn't falling because he simply didn't bring anything of worth to the table in these games. It feels like right now he has a little bit of a different approach to games. Trying to get the little things done next to his scoring and it resulted in really consistent defense, rebounding and (although on a lower level than for example to begin the season) scoring. As a reward MPJ is closing the games now and is playing 40 mins on some nights. I think Porter mentioned a change of mindset too at some point.
2. I think its more important who he plays with than his actual position. Millsap is a PF and backup C. There is no interchangeability. Green is the same but to a lesser extend. I think if you play him alongside a guy like Zeke Nnaji or to bring some example from other teams AG, Siakam, Tatum, OG or whoever it doesn't matter at all where he plays. Zeke is a great perimeter defender so he can take on the tougher assignment while Porter would take the weaker one to fly around and play off ball defense with his good shot contesting. On offense it doesn't matter at all since both are mobile and can hit the outside shot. Teams would put the better, more mobile defender on Porter no matter what position he plays.

Just wanted to get this out here since I see this all the time and hear it in the media and I don't think it is at all backed up by reality that his more consistent play is about his position. Although I have to admit I also saw or hear someone bring up point Nr 2 and I can't agree enough with this.
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#354 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Mar 2, 2021 2:25 pm

Appreciate great input from The Rebel and Timmyyy and agree with a great deal of it - very insightful.

I agree Porter is starting to fit in with the starters. He can drive to the hoop and is very active, especially on the boards. His defense still isn't adequate in my opinion, but it is rapidly improving. I do believe all he needs now is playing time.

Mostly I wanted to throw in my opinion on his position. Since Murray isn't really a PG and Jokic isn't really a center and Dozier is more of a combo guard, as is Morris and Nnaji is beginning to look like a combo forward; I think it works out nicely that Porter is a combo forward.
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#355 » by TunaFish » Sat Mar 6, 2021 5:20 am

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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#356 » by TunaFish » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:03 am

Could this be the start of some big numbers?

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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#357 » by Timmyyy » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:18 am

TunaFish wrote:Could this be the start of some big numbers?

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Well, feels like his position, oh wonder, wasn't the main reason for him playing good and consistent in the games before the allstar break since he still does it now. Although Millsap still is a bad fit between him and Joker I would say. Insert a switchable PF into the starting lineup so you have flexibility who Porter has to guard on defense and you might have an even better starting lineup. Trade for AG for now and Nnaji takes over whenever ready would be my suggestion!
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#358 » by NuggetsWY » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:40 pm

I've always believed he would be truly great. My question was always, "How great?" Early this year, I felt like Barton was probably our third best player. With no disrespect to Barton and recognizing how well he is fitting on the team now; there is no doubt in my mind that Porter is now our third best player.

It will always be hard to distinguish second best since Murray & Porter are so very different players. But one thing I'm now wondering about is: How long until Porter is averaging a double-double for the year? I'm almost ready to say "next year".
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#359 » by skywalker33 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:25 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:I've always believed he would be truly great. My question was always, "How great?" Early this year, I felt like Barton was probably our third best player. With no disrespect to Barton and recognizing how well he is fitting on the team now; there is no doubt in my mind that Porter is now our third best player.

It will always be hard to distinguish second best since Murray & Porter are so very different players. But one thing I'm now wondering about is: How long until Porter is averaging a double-double for the year? I'm almost ready to say "next year".


THIRD BEST ?? With Murray's consistency issues, MPJ is on his way to being SECOND BEST but that just my humble opinion.
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Re: Michael Porter Jr 

Post#360 » by NuggetsWY » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:03 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:I've always believed he would be truly great. My question was always, "How great?" Early this year, I felt like Barton was probably our third best player. With no disrespect to Barton and recognizing how well he is fitting on the team now; there is no doubt in my mind that Porter is now our third best player.

It will always be hard to distinguish second best since Murray & Porter are so very different players. But one thing I'm now wondering about is: How long until Porter is averaging a double-double for the year? I'm almost ready to say "next year".


THIRD BEST ?? With Murray's consistency issues, MPJ is on his way to being SECOND BEST but that just my humble opinion.

I actually started to type "secon " and stopped to make it "third". :lol: I'm not sure I'm ready to say second best - but yeah, I'll agree with you - "on his way to being SECOND BEST".

P.S. Since when do either of us have a "humble opinion? :party:

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