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Coach Malone

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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#81 » by manchambo » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:59 pm

The Rebel wrote:
manchambo wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
Sorry but Malone was clearly outcoached by Pop, we had a clear advantage on talent, there is no reason that series should have went to 7 games other than Pop exploited every weakness we had while we struggled to take advantage of their weaknesses at all and just used our superior talent to win games.

For that matter I think he got out coached by Snyder as well. The huge adjustment that Malone made was to stop calling the same play over and over again, and of course Harris getting healthy, but he did not come up with any adjustments on defense that worked.

I like the idea of all 3 of those, although Budinger is probably my last choice of the 3, he has the same issue as Malone as sticking with his system and refusing to make adjustments off of it. The difference is that Budinger does seem to get every bit of talent out of his guys while I cannot say the same for Malone.

The Kroenke's have always said that they would pay for a contender, but I also remember there was an insider that used to post here that flat said Stan does not think the coach makes a huge difference and did not want the coach to be the star of the team. So I doubt he would get Pop or Chauncey, because if we are realistic both of those guys have bigger names than anybody associated with the Nuggets right now.

Fact is despite his idiot statements at his press conference, MPJ along with Jokic and Murray should make this team a true contender. With the right pieces around them we can win a championhsip, but those pieces include the right coach.

I actually think Popovich would be the perfect hire, he knows how to adjust his schemes to his roster, he knows how to get every bit of talent out of guys, and he loves Jokic and murray. I don't think Stan should give a crap what it cost as I think Pop could make this team a contender. A championship means a lot of money now and in the future for a franchise.

I would settle for Chauncey as he proved during his career that he knows how to play different ways and I am sure he understands different systems that would work for our team. Plus he has worked with Murray and Morris both in the past and has played a part in their growth.

My 3rd choice would be Becky Hammond, she has worked her way up Pop's staff to being a top assistant, and has a hell of a career as a player. I think it would be an interesting choice, but I would give her a chance.

I would also still give Melvin Hunt a chance, he got a team with nothing to play for to give everything they had and win games despite being forced to sit 3 rotation players every night. He understood how to help them succeed, plus he has been a top assistant with some very good coaches.

That being said, I just do not see them firing Malone. He met expectations this year, and with the injuries and MPJ being so young he will likely get another year. I think the Shawful mess scared the hell out of Connelly and Josh Kroenke, I think they are okay with 2nd round exits right now as opposed to another mess with a bad coach.


If we're going to fire coaches for getting "out-coached" in the playoff series they win, we're not going to keep coaches very long.

We're talking about a guy who took a baby team to the brink of WCF last year. Looks like we will not come quite so close this year, but in all honesty LAC is a much better team than POR, maybe the best team in the league.

WCF would have been a success this year. Losing in the 1st round would have been a big failure. Looks like we're going to wind up somewhere in the middle of that. I don't see why you would even consider firing a coach who has developed this team from nothing at this point. He is a young coach with a young team, and he's learning too. And what I see happening in the games they're losing, especially game 7 last yr. vs. Por, and game 3 the other night, is young players not making shots down the stretch. I don't know what coaching Malone can do to make Grant, Craig, Harris, and in the last few games Murray, hit wide open shots.


If your coach is being outcoached in every series he is in and winning purely on talent than the coach deserves to be fired.

The brink of the WCF happened because we had a superstar putting up historical great numbers and carrying the team through the playoffs.

Development and winning are 2 very different things, there are a lot of teams that need Malone, but he does not know how to win in the NBA.

FAct is Malone is not learning, he is doing the same thing this year as he did last year, which is calling the JOkic and Murray pick and roll until the series is almost over and then stop calling plays long enough for the Nuggets talent to actually take over and win games. This time it may not work though as the Clippers are too talented to go down 3-1 and still hope to win the series.


First, you're getting down to style points when you're complaining about how they win.

Second, I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Game 3 of this series Denver had every opportunity to win. They had open shots throughout the 4th quarter that they did not hit. That's execution, not coaching. Although my memory of game 7 vs. POR is a bitty fuzzier, my recollection is that exactly the same thing happened--the offensive scheme developed enough opportunities to win but the shots were not hit.

A big part of that is experience--this team still has relatively limited playoff experience. They haven't played dozens of playoff games like Kawhi, PG, and people on virtually every team still in the playoffs.

I think it's also personnel--they need to find the one or two guys who will be deadly from 3 in order to make this offense unstoppable. In the last couple of games the Clips were able to aggressively double Jokic and Murray because Denver couldn't make them pay for it in 4th quarter by kicking the ball out.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#82 » by Mickey8 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:27 pm

The Rebel wrote:
Mickey8 wrote:Harden,Lowry,Curry, Doncic and some other players who are handling the ball a lot have much better vision than Murray, they can drive and kick the ball to the right spots , Murray is so limited as the facilitator . Jokic should never be the primary facilitator on the team , its easier to make game plan defensively for Jokic as the facilitator in the play off's, because he cant break down opposing defense by driving the basketball , because he doesn't do that , everything is at the top of the key or when he post up , thats why his assists number are lower this post season compared to the last season, opposing teams are much more ready for him this time around . Jokic with the true PG such as Chris Paul for an example would have been much deadlier on the offense as the scorer , especially in the pick and roll and his passing would be a plus as the secondary facilitator .


Murray is fine getting to the rim when Jokic is not on the court, when Jokic is on the court than they keep the paint open for cutters, it is not that hard to figure out. Chris Paul would completely destroy the offense, and take what makes Jokic so special away, and we win less games.

No he wouldn't, I was just amazed how many opportunities Paul made for Adams off the pick and roll against the Houston, and Adams would lose the ball or missed point blank shot, just off the pick and roll Jokic would score bunch of points and make even more pressure on the opposing defenses , Murray can't even execute a simple pick and roll action.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#83 » by skywalker33 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:50 pm

Jokic and Adams are two totally different players, if you can’t see the difference in their play, you don’t watch the games Mickey
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#84 » by NuggetsWY » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:26 am

Mickey8 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
Mickey8 wrote:Harden,Lowry,Curry, Doncic and some other players who are handling the ball a lot have much better vision than Murray, they can drive and kick the ball to the right spots , Murray is so limited as the facilitator . Jokic should never be the primary facilitator on the team , its easier to make game plan defensively for Jokic as the facilitator in the play off's, because he cant break down opposing defense by driving the basketball , because he doesn't do that , everything is at the top of the key or when he post up , thats why his assists number are lower this post season compared to the last season, opposing teams are much more ready for him this time around . Jokic with the true PG such as Chris Paul for an example would have been much deadlier on the offense as the scorer , especially in the pick and roll and his passing would be a plus as the secondary facilitator .

Murray is fine getting to the rim when Jokic is not on the court, when Jokic is on the court than they keep the paint open for cutters, it is not that hard to figure out. Chris Paul would completely destroy the offense, and take what makes Jokic so special away, and we win less games.

No he wouldn't, I was just amazed how many opportunities Paul made for Adams off the pick and roll against the Houston, and Adams would lose the ball or missed point blank shot, just off the pick and roll Jokic would score bunch of points and make even more pressure on the opposing defenses , Murray can't even execute a simple pick and roll action.

:lol: Jokic & Murray are known throughout the NBA for their pick-n-roll. In fact, some national announcers say they are great at the pick-n-roll but need to expand their options more.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#85 » by manchambo » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:31 am

Do we acknowledge that Malone basically pushed all the right buttons tonight, or criticize him for not winning by more?
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#86 » by The Rebel » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:11 am

Mickey8 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
Mickey8 wrote:Harden,Lowry,Curry, Doncic and some other players who are handling the ball a lot have much better vision than Murray, they can drive and kick the ball to the right spots , Murray is so limited as the facilitator . Jokic should never be the primary facilitator on the team , its easier to make game plan defensively for Jokic as the facilitator in the play off's, because he cant break down opposing defense by driving the basketball , because he doesn't do that , everything is at the top of the key or when he post up , thats why his assists number are lower this post season compared to the last season, opposing teams are much more ready for him this time around . Jokic with the true PG such as Chris Paul for an example would have been much deadlier on the offense as the scorer , especially in the pick and roll and his passing would be a plus as the secondary facilitator .


Murray is fine getting to the rim when Jokic is not on the court, when Jokic is on the court than they keep the paint open for cutters, it is not that hard to figure out. Chris Paul would completely destroy the offense, and take what makes Jokic so special away, and we win less games.

No he wouldn't, I was just amazed how many opportunities Paul made for Adams off the pick and roll against the Houston, and Adams would lose the ball or missed point blank shot, just off the pick and roll Jokic would score bunch of points and make even more pressure on the opposing defenses , Murray can't even execute a simple pick and roll action.


You think turning Jokic into a roll man is going to benefit the team? The 1 thing we do that nobody else in the league can do is run our offense totally through our Center. Jokic and Murray literally ran the pick and roll more times with more success than anybody in the league this season. Murray is being guarded by a team with 2 perimeter defenders on the all defense team, and a 3rd that has been on it previously. That team is waiting on the Jokic Murray pick and roll, and yet we still manage to win a game with it. Did you notice when this game really turned? Millsap hit a couple of buckets, and suddenly the Clippers had to do more than just cover Jokic and Murray.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#87 » by The Rebel » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:12 am

manchambo wrote:Do we acknowledge that Malone basically pushed all the right buttons tonight, or criticize him for not winning by more?


I listened to the game with Kosmiski tonight, and plan to watch it later, but I will say that it sounded like Malone out coached Doc tonight. Maybe he is finally figuring it out?
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#88 » by NuggetsWY » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:16 pm

The Rebel wrote:
manchambo wrote:Do we acknowledge that Malone basically pushed all the right buttons tonight, or criticize him for not winning by more?

I listened to the game with Kosmiski tonight, and plan to watch it later, but I will say that it sounded like Malone out coached Doc tonight. Maybe he is finally figuring it out?

The team seemed unprepared to start the game - and that's typically considered the coach's responsibility. I wonder how often we are beaten in the 1st quarter?

The Nuggets seem to do well in the 2nd quarter, so that quarter didn't surprise me.

Like the 1st quarter, the 3rd quarter typically shows half-time adjustments - typically considered the coach's responsibility. It surely seems like we lose this quarter a lot, but not tonight.

That 4th quarter was impressive, but we've shown the ability to win 4th quarters when we need to.

I'm not sure Malone out-coached Rivers, but I'll agree he did better than usual - overall.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#89 » by skywalker33 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:19 pm

What I took from this game is he didn't seem to penalize MPJ for his comments, letting him close out the game (Thank God !). Maybe Coach is growing a bit with this team, I was concerned he would keep Porter on the bench.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#90 » by THE J0KER » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:49 am

skywalker33 wrote:What I took from this game is he didn't seem to penalize MPJ for his comments, letting him close out the game (Thank God !). Maybe Coach is growing a bit with this team, I was concerned he would keep Porter on the bench.

I can't agree that Malone outcoached Doc on Friday because the Clippers lead +13 just 13 minutes before the end, and the team takes the first lead late in the 4th quarter.

But I must give a big credit to Malone for controlling his ego toward Porter in this game. I guess I bored everyone on this board since the early start of this season with complaints about restricted MPJ playing time. This is probably the first playoff game where I did not ask for more minutes for Porter despite he almost constantly has the highest +/- (which can't be just coincidence), because these public comments can undermine team chemistry and coach authority of every team, and during the game, the fact is that Millsap played his best quarter in 3/4, so no complains if he gets the chance to close this game in 4th. Most surprisingly for a rookie, he was best in the last 100 seconds of such an important game with one monster block and 3-pointer, and perfect coolness from the line. I'm not sure is this comes from some Malone's vision of how Porter will deal in such circumstances, or he doesn't want to finish the season with everyone thinking he is in war with the team's most talented prospect, especially because Malone already have shadows of Nurkic, Beasley, and Juancho around him. But it works obviously. 22 minutes from the bench is not what I want to see for Porter, but better that than nothing. It is much better than if Malone tried more with that Jokic+Plumlee together experiment which never worked well or another game with 30+ minutes with Craig at SF which damaging the team's rebounding.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#91 » by TunaFish » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:04 pm

Coming back from a 3 to 1 deficit suggests the coach made some changes along the way. Coming back from a 3 to 1 deficit a second time deserves some patting on the back. Way to go Malone! You make the impossible seem possible.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#92 » by TunaFish » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:48 am

Correction: win two 7 game series back to back. A first in NBA history. I think Malone has proven himself by taking his team to the Western Conference Championship series.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#93 » by manchambo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:09 pm

My one criticism from last night's game is that I don't understand the offensive sets when the bench is in. They keep running the ball through Plumlee like he's Jokic--but he ain't Jokic. Couldn't they at least try running some plays for MPJ? I think he's a better P&R threat than Plumlee.

Maybe they're not confident enough in his decision making, but you won't know until you try.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#94 » by skywalker33 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:44 pm

manchambo wrote:My one criticism from last night's game is that I don't understand the offensive sets when the bench is in. They keep running the ball through Plumlee like he's Jokic--but he ain't Jokic. Couldn't they at least try running some plays for MPJ? I think he's a better P&R threat than Plumlee.

Maybe they're not confident enough in his decision making, but you won't know until you try.


Plumlee may not be Jokic (who is ? ) but he's a pretty decent passer himself. Trying to run the same sets at least simplifies it for the team as a whole, not having to adjust based on the personnel
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#95 » by NuggetsWY » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:20 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
manchambo wrote:My one criticism from last night's game is that I don't understand the offensive sets when the bench is in. They keep running the ball through Plumlee like he's Jokic--but he ain't Jokic. Couldn't they at least try running some plays for MPJ? I think he's a better P&R threat than Plumlee.

Maybe they're not confident enough in his decision making, but you won't know until you try.

Plumlee may not be Jokic (who is ? ) but he's a pretty decent passer himself. Trying to run the same sets at least simplifies it for the team as a whole, not having to adjust based on the personnel

I agree with Sky BUT I'll go beyond that. If you are going to run plays for Porter, you need to set him up with picks. His best offensive skill is his spot-up shooting (but that's just my opinion). He's not a great one-on-one scorer - adequate but his handles aren't great enough to dribble through traffic. But if a PG like Morris does a pick-n-roll with Plumlee and either one draws a double, Porter could be open for a nice shot. So it's not that different than Jokic with Murray - oh yeah, Porter works great with the mighty Jokic-Murray pick-n-roll too.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#96 » by TunaFish » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:12 pm

manchambo wrote:My one criticism from last night's game is that I don't understand the offensive sets when the bench is in. They keep running the ball through Plumlee like he's Jokic--but he ain't Jokic. Couldn't they at least try running some plays for MPJ? I think he's a better P&R threat than Plumlee.

Maybe they're not confident enough in his decision making, but you won't know until you try.


You have to run the same plays and formations as they run with Jokic, only please tell Plumlee not to shoot. As to running plays for MPJ, that day may come but they have two veteran playmakers in Murray and Jokic and you have to let them operate. Having MPJ on the wing as a shooting option opens space for the point guard (or center) to penetrate or dish. If you hit your shots it is an offense that's made to win.

In time, after you assimilate MPJ more into the offense, you will see variations of the two man game that includes him. Imagine more MPJ and Jokic setting picks for each other. That happened in the bubble games so it is likely to be seen in the future The great situation for MPJ is that he is getting substantial minutes and he is learning to play, particularly defense against the best opponents. He is already an outstanding rebounder.

Again, Malone seems to be helping him or at least some assistant has his ear.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#97 » by manchambo » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:18 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
manchambo wrote:My one criticism from last night's game is that I don't understand the offensive sets when the bench is in. They keep running the ball through Plumlee like he's Jokic--but he ain't Jokic. Couldn't they at least try running some plays for MPJ? I think he's a better P&R threat than Plumlee.

Maybe they're not confident enough in his decision making, but you won't know until you try.

Plumlee may not be Jokic (who is ? ) but he's a pretty decent passer himself. Trying to run the same sets at least simplifies it for the team as a whole, not having to adjust based on the personnel

I agree with Sky BUT I'll go beyond that. If you are going to run plays for Porter, you need to set him up with picks. His best offensive skill is his spot-up shooting (but that's just my opinion). He's not a great one-on-one scorer - adequate but his handles aren't great enough to dribble through traffic. But if a PG like Morris does a pick-n-roll with Plumlee and either one draws a double, Porter could be open for a nice shot. So it's not that different than Jokic with Murray - oh yeah, Porter works great with the mighty Jokic-Murray pick-n-roll too.

His handles are at least as good as plumlee. I think they could basically put MPJ in the Jokic role on at least some offensive sets.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#98 » by The Rebel » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:47 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
manchambo wrote:Do we acknowledge that Malone basically pushed all the right buttons tonight, or criticize him for not winning by more?

I listened to the game with Kosmiski tonight, and plan to watch it later, but I will say that it sounded like Malone out coached Doc tonight. Maybe he is finally figuring it out?

The team seemed unprepared to start the game - and that's typically considered the coach's responsibility. I wonder how often we are beaten in the 1st quarter?

The Nuggets seem to do well in the 2nd quarter, so that quarter didn't surprise me.

Like the 1st quarter, the 3rd quarter typically shows half-time adjustments - typically considered the coach's responsibility. It surely seems like we lose this quarter a lot, but not tonight.

That 4th quarter was impressive, but we've shown the ability to win 4th quarters when we need to.

I'm not sure Malone out-coached Rivers, but I'll agree he did better than usual - overall.


I think in game 5 Malone started limiting Millsap's minutes, and played MPJ much more in the 2nd half of all 3 of the last games. While MPJ is getting drug over the coals for his lapses, overall his defense was very good and helped tremendously.

Malone also had the entire offense working in the 1st half of all 3 games, which lead to a more open court and our offense to flow considerably better in the 2nd half of all 3 games. We played exactly how we have played all season in the last 4 games, including the game where the shots just would not go down, and we won our way. Which is partially on the players for imposing their will, but partially for Malone calling the plays and getting the team focused on our game again.

We totally shut down the Clippers entire offense in the 2nd half of games 5, 6, 7. Their entire offense was foul shots and hero ball, no offense, those adjustments were made by Malone.

Do you know that teams after coming back from a 3-1 deficit usually lose their next series in 5 games? Getting the guys to believe and not to give up even down 3-1 a 2nd time is a hell of a coaching job. It never should have gotten to that point, but once it did he did well to keep them engaged.

He is far from perfect, but he did a very good job in this series.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#99 » by NuggetsWY » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:27 pm

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/9/16/21438852/lebron-james-kawhi-leonard-game-7
An interesting read - consider what it has to say about coaches, especially the following sentence:
Lue was criticized for his relatively simplistic offense, but all LeBron needed was the ball and the space to make plays and everything else would work itself out.

I remain a firm believer that when Jokic is in a game, the Nuggets need to run zero set plays. Just give Jokic the ball at the high post and have the rest of the players cutting and screening for each other and running the baseline. It is very difficult to organize a defense against that offense -and- then the occasional post-up of Jokic brings a change of pace that works well. Add in frequent Jokic-Murray pick-n-rolls; it could be the best offense in the league. With that as the offense, the coach only has to pull guys that aren't moving and focus on defense - along with in-bound plays.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#100 » by skywalker33 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:19 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/9/16/21438852/lebron-james-kawhi-leonard-game-7
An interesting read - consider what it has to say about coaches, especially the following sentence:
Lue was criticized for his relatively simplistic offense, but all LeBron needed was the ball and the space to make plays and everything else would work itself out.

I remain a firm believer that when Jokic is in a game, the Nuggets need to run zero set plays. Just give Jokic the ball at the high post and have the rest of the players cutting and screening for each other and running the baseline. It is very difficult to organize a defense against that offense -and- then the occasional post-up of Jokic brings a change of pace that works well. Add in frequent Jokic-Murray pick-n-rolls; it could be the best offense in the league. With that as the offense, the coach only has to pull guys that aren't moving and focus on defense - along with in-bound plays.


So you LOVED the Doug Moe offense.....go left, go right, or go down the lane :lol:
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