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Coach Malone

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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#41 » by The Rebel » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:59 am

psimanic1 wrote:He shouldnt get a pass for Harris and Barton, he knew they wouldnt play and he had 8 games to prepare someone for that position, even if its KBD who we gave Beasley for(we could use Beasley now, right?), but no, lets play 3 C and 2 PF lineups until we get our PG back because we have 3 PGs, and no SG, so playing all frontcourt players should help us with that. If he didnt eant to chase 2nd seed, you give Daniels or KBD 30+ min in every of those 8 games so you can use them for atleast 10-15min from the bench shen they are needed.



I laid out why I think Malone should be fired above, and really this embarrassment in the playoffs is just another symptom of a much bigger problem. I don't think Malone is the right coach for this team, Oddly I think he would be better in Philly than he is here as Embiid is closer to what it seems he wants out of a center, but I just don't see them firing him.


Truth is I think Connelly and Malone should both be fired. Connelly took over a team with 12-14 guys who could be rotation players on another roster and has slowly destroyed all the trade value that we have had. To where we no longer have 9 guys who should be part of a regular rotation right now and we do not have cap space nor any extra future picks to solve the problems.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#42 » by skywalker33 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:23 am

I've been contemplating Connelly getting canned as well, he seems to fall in love with his player, waiting too long to consider trades. I do appreciate his draft talent evaluation guess we'll see how well he does without AK by his side.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#43 » by THE J0KER » Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:43 am

Malone is a control freak, so it is ironic and even a little bit unfair to talk about him in a week when seems that he lost control over (t)his team. But he has to blame only himself for most of this mess.

Malone survived two seasons back-to-back Denver stays one win shy from playoff thanks to his stubbornness, so we know Nuggets owners and TC have big support and trust in him (+patience). Also, we started this new discussion about MM like Denver already lost 4-1 vs Jazz, and despite these two blowouts losses look so terrible, it is not over yet, and his 2020 playoff case can look much better than this already after today's game#4.

To be fair, Malone improves as a coach in the past two seasons, but not enough for the title contender team. Even if everything else is perfect, isn't that enough for a team that wants a ring with this generation of players? You can clearly see in 2019 playoff how Pop outsmarted Malone, so instead to outclass Spurs we barely won. Then we played vs Portland and despite home-court advantage, despite they played without their best defensemen and third star Nurkic, and despite Jokic as team-leader clearly outplayed Lillard in that series, we lost. And so far this series, Snyder, another NBA coach clearly superior compared to Malone when it most counts, clearly outcoached Malone so far.

The second big issue about Malone is a tunnel-vision about players which he blacklisted for some reason or not fits his plan. It looks ugly in cases of Faried, Nelson, Lyles, Juancho... but in cases of Nurkic and Beasley it killed team's valuable assets, and there is signs that he doing the same with Porter, which is most probably future all-star player, and already this season Nuggets third best if Malone was not that stubborn. No surprise if this issue will cost him more than playoff results. Kroenke owners are maybe just happy enough of having the TOP10 team without asking for more, but nobody likes unnecessary losing assets because of coach constantly wrongdoing.

But for the start, let's see how the DEN-UTA series will end, which is arguably an important part of this story.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#44 » by skywalker33 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:09 pm

Guess there are some here with big ego's too as they seem to KNOW things, even if they are just theories, not facts. Does that make us all "control freaks" ?? It does look like we haven't been as prepared for this restart (if they were injured as far back as Feb, why are they just taking up roster spots ?) and I maintain Malone has been out-coached. That said I've seen everything from a total rebuild and we screwed all our chip chances with the Beasley trade (these Euro's LMAO) to fire Malone and the FO (right now I belong here) to we're just a year or two away, who knows.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#45 » by NuggetsWY » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:08 pm

I listen to the national announcers and analysts. They keep saying "Jokic and Murray are young ..." Then they talk about Mitchell (who is younger) and they talk about his maturity. Is that the fault of our coach? Perhaps. No doubt the players deserve some of the "credit".

What I do know is the Nuggets defense this year has been predominantly around the NBA average and terrible in the bubble. Unlike offense, defense doesn't require "elite skills". It requires effort and IQ. While offense requires practice to maintain a consistent shot - for most players.

Regardless - our front office has given us little reason to believe Malone will not be here next year. Then again, they seldom say anything, so ...
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#46 » by skywalker33 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:49 am

Nuggets should be on the phone to Gregg Popovich right now !!
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#47 » by U hova » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:39 am

The Rebel wrote:
U hova wrote:Kenny Atkinson needs a job... we don't have any Kyrie Irving kind of headcases here do we?


I think Atkinson is similar to Malone, good at developing guys, but not the type that is ever going to win big.

Supposedly Billups comes along with hiring Ty Lue as a coach, at least they know how to win championships, maybe they can get these guys reaching their ceilings?

If Atkinson is good at development then he's an upgrade over Malone... I've been hearing "These guys are young" for 3 years, they should be ready by now. Those Brooklyn teams were winning regular season games straight on schemes and their guys buying in, they lost out in the playoffs because of talent. And after getting roasted on the same play over and over tonight I really just want someone who at least looks like they know what they're doing.

Ty Lue is someone i absolutely don't want. Not another guy who was carried around by LeBron James. Thats how we got in this mess. I've respect for Chauncy but I really just want a guy that's already been a coach and is used to making adjustments at this stage.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#48 » by U hova » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:56 am

NuggetsWY wrote:I listen to the national announcers and analysts. They keep saying "Jokic and Murray are young ..." Then they talk about Mitchell (who is younger) and they talk about his maturity. Is that the fault of our coach? Perhaps. No doubt the players deserve some of the "credit".

What I do know is the Nuggets defense this year has been predominantly around the NBA average and terrible in the bubble. Unlike offense, defense doesn't require "elite skills". It requires effort and IQ. While offense requires practice to maintain a consistent shot - for most players.

Regardless - our front office has given us little reason to believe Malone will not be here next year. Then again, they seldom say anything, so ...

Our defense last year was a bit of a fluke. If you do a breakdown it was mainly because we had the league's best "opponent 3pt%", i.e. everyone happened to brick against us...
Whereas something like limiting raw 3pt attempts per game would imply there's something being done schematically that limits their shots there, %dips from all opponents doesn't mean we are necessarily flourishing as a system. It was kind of predictable that our defense would regress to at least league average when that 3pt% also adjusted.
It also suggests we can't do anything as a team if someone gets hot on us. The numbers are saying this defense was always going to be at the mercy of our opponent, and we'd only get stops on their chokes.

The bubble numbers I'm willing to overlook because we deliberately tanked a few games for match-up purposes (that's not going too well), and we're also missing our key wing guys.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#49 » by skywalker33 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:56 am

U hova wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
U hova wrote:Kenny Atkinson needs a job... we don't have any Kyrie Irving kind of headcases here do we?


I think Atkinson is similar to Malone, good at developing guys, but not the type that is ever going to win big.

Supposedly Billups comes along with hiring Ty Lue as a coach, at least they know how to win championships, maybe they can get these guys reaching their ceilings?

If Atkinson is good at development then he's an upgrade over Malone... I've been hearing "These guys are young" for 3 years, they should be ready by now. Those Brooklyn years were won regular season games straight on schemes and their guys buying in, they lost out in the playoffs because of talent. And after getting roasted on the same play over and over tonight I really just want someone who at least looks like they know what they're doing.

Ty Lue is someone i absolutely don't want. Not another guy who was carried around by LeBron James. Thats how we got in this mess. I've respect for Chauncy but I really just want a guy that's already been a coach and is used to making adjustments at this stage.


Frankly, Atkinson doesn't seem like anyone's upgrade, only one over 40 games once. Malone's a good development coach, seems like the same guys.

I'd bet it would only take Billups a good offer to run this club to get him, no need to drag Lue as dead weight, never that he was anything more than LBJ's lacky. I will advocate for Pop today, tomorrow until he says NO....then I raise the offer.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#50 » by THE J0KER » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:59 am

skywalker33 wrote:Nuggets should be on the phone to Gregg Popovich right now !!

This is not that unimaginable as it sounds. He is a few years from retirement and no way Spurs is going to regroup in next three years, so we should send the offer. When I read about rumors that Nets already contacted him for next season job the first thing I thought is why we don't do the same. Players like Jokic, Murray, and Porter much better suits to his "military" basketball philosophy than egomaniacs like Durant and Irving.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#51 » by psimanic1 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:55 am

Has to go...
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#52 » by youngthegiant » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:46 pm

Torrey Craig -10 in a 1 point game. Get Malone and Craig out of here. Honestly I'm just tired of Malone's philosophy. Beasley would have absolutely have changed our season and this series. But his love and willingness to go back to Craig has always been a crutch for the team and the offense.

Take a coach like Quinn Snyder. Jordan Clarkson isn't a good defender by any means. But he understands the value an offensive player like Clarkson can bring to a game.Jazz don't win that game yesterday if they play a guy who can't shoot or dribble for 20 minutes. We're in year 5 and Malone still doesn't understand the importance of having players who mesh with Jokic. We lost a good one in Beasley and it's hurt because we did it over Torrey ******* Craig.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#53 » by The Rebel » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:31 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
U hova wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
I think Atkinson is similar to Malone, good at developing guys, but not the type that is ever going to win big.

Supposedly Billups comes along with hiring Ty Lue as a coach, at least they know how to win championships, maybe they can get these guys reaching their ceilings?

If Atkinson is good at development then he's an upgrade over Malone... I've been hearing "These guys are young" for 3 years, they should be ready by now. Those Brooklyn years were won regular season games straight on schemes and their guys buying in, they lost out in the playoffs because of talent. And after getting roasted on the same play over and over tonight I really just want someone who at least looks like they know what they're doing.

Ty Lue is someone i absolutely don't want. Not another guy who was carried around by LeBron James. Thats how we got in this mess. I've respect for Chauncy but I really just want a guy that's already been a coach and is used to making adjustments at this stage.


Frankly, Atkinson doesn't seem like anyone's upgrade, only one over 40 games once. Malone's a good development coach, seems like the same guys.

I'd bet it would only take Billups a good offer to run this club to get him, no need to drag Lue as dead weight, never that he was anything more than LBJ's lacky. I will advocate for Pop today, tomorrow until he says NO....then I raise the offer.


Agreed with Atkinson, I do not understand how he gets the huge reputation he got. As soon as the stars got to Brooklyn his days were numbers. That should tell you all you need to know about what they think of him.

While Lue has his question marks, he did find ways to get a lot of production out of role players and put together rotations to get the most out of those teams. With our lack of depth that is something that we need to look at hard when it comes to the next coach.

I would easily hire Billups or even Mike MIller (the former player), both have worked with our young guys and both know what it takes to win while having great basketball intelligence. I would take a risk on either of them, but I doubt our front office will, and we know they don't like to pay unproven coaches.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#54 » by The Rebel » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:36 pm

youngthegiant wrote:Torrey Craig -10 in a 1 point game. Get Malone and Craig out of here. Honestly I'm just tired of Malone's philosophy. Beasley would have absolutely have changed our season and this series. But his love and willingness to go back to Craig has always been a crutch for the team and the offense.

Take a coach like Quinn Snyder. Jordan Clarkson isn't a good defender by any means. But he understands the value an offensive player like Clarkson can bring to a game.Jazz don't win that game yesterday if they play a guy who can't shoot or dribble for 20 minutes. We're in year 5 and Malone still doesn't understand the importance of having players who mesh with Jokic. We lost a good one in Beasley and it's hurt because we did it over Torrey ******* Craig.


Truthfully I would be okay with trading Beasley and keeping Craig, if Malone could make the defense top 5 in the league. I am willing to let guys like Jokic and murray carry the team, but our defense has sucked. That is the real issue, Malone seems to chase off all the offensive talent that are not all stars in the making while overplaying defensive role players who really are not that good at defense even. We all know defense is about effort and intelligence, you can make an good offensive player and average defender, but you cannot make an solid defensive player and turn him into an average offensive player. If he cannot dribble and cannot shoot he is not going to learn how in the NBA.

Craig got tore up by Mitchell this whole series, he got tore up by McCullom and the games where Harris was in foul trouble by Liliard last year in the playoffs, and by White in the Spurs series. yet somehow he has this great reputation as a defender and Malone will overplay him every chance he gets. It is worse than Karl was with Carter and makes no damn sense to me.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#55 » by skywalker33 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:18 pm

The Rebel wrote:Lue has his question marks, he did find ways to get a lot of production out of role players and put together rotations to get the most out of those teams. With our lack of depth that is something that we need to look at hard when it comes to the next coach.


While I do think Lue has a few more X's and O's in him than Malone, without LBJ he'd have never won an NBA championship. And I realize we're down two men on the roster, but when did we go from one of the deepest teams to one with a lack of depth ??


The Rebel wrote:I would easily hire Billups or even Mike MIller (the former player), both have worked with our young guys and both know what it takes to win while having great basketball intelligence. I would take a risk on either of them, but I doubt our front office will, and we know they don't like to pay unproven coaches.


I agree Miller should be added to the list, especially with both of their recruiting talents they'd easily bring a new Free Agency dimension to the Nuggets, one that TC apparently doesn't have. I also think Billups would be more aggressive than Connelly in the trade market, he doesn't appear to have apprehension in making the tough call. Not sure about Miller, do know he's more in touch with players and is willing to put himself out there. And really, while he had pedigree how much real winning experience did Malone have before he was hired ?
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#56 » by The Rebel » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:57 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:Lue has his question marks, he did find ways to get a lot of production out of role players and put together rotations to get the most out of those teams. With our lack of depth that is something that we need to look at hard when it comes to the next coach.


While I do think Lue has a few more X's and O's in him than Malone, without LBJ he'd have never won an NBA championship. And I realize we're down two men on the roster, but when did we go from one of the deepest teams to one with a lack of depth ??

We have plenty of depth at PG and PF, but not at SG or Sf. Our lack of depth happened when the guy who should have been our 5th SG/SF became a starter. When we traded 2 guys who are starting at SG/SF for another team so we could get 2 PFs and a future pick. After salary dumping Chandler and losing Gallo for nothing. When our starting SG and SF both ended up with injuries bad enough that they have missed significant amounts of time over the last 2 seasons. Really look at our depth chart at SG and SF

Harris/Craig/ Daniels/
Barton/MPJ/

That is not a deep team and it forces us to play Morris and Murray together in the backcourt or move Grant to SG/SF even with his issues keeping up with the small guys.

Then if we look at what we have heading into the offseason it is really bad outside of PG
Murray/Morris/ Dozier
Harris
Barton/ MPJ
Bol/ Cancar
Jokic

and that is it, that is all that we have under contract for next year.

skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:I would easily hire Billups or even Mike MIller (the former player), both have worked with our young guys and both know what it takes to win while having great basketball intelligence. I would take a risk on either of them, but I doubt our front office will, and we know they don't like to pay unproven coaches.


I agree Miller should be added to the list, especially with both of their recruiting talents they'd easily bring a new Free Agency dimension to the Nuggets, one that TC apparently doesn't have. I also think Billups would be more aggressive than Connelly in the trade market, he doesn't appear to have apprehension in making the tough call. Not sure about Miller, do know he's more in touch with players and is willing to put himself out there. And really, while he had pedigree how much real winning experience did Malone have before he was hired ?


When Miller was here a few years ago Malone used to talk about how Miller would point out things that he was missing in the games, which tells me Miller sees the game correctly and does not miss much. I know rumors were out there that he and Jokic were close but he has only been an assistant coach in the NCAA for a couple of years so he may not be an option.

I never got the Malone hire, while many raved about his time with the Kings, I viewed it as a failure. Any team will struggle losing their all star type of players, but that team collapsed despite the fact that they had some good proven talent on that team. I also think that team had more talent than their record ever showed, Just like we see today Malone could not adjust to his players available nor his scheme on either end.

I also never understood how he got so much credit for the Warriors defense, his last season there they were 14th overall in defense, that is not exactly a great defense. I do think he is a good development coach and with a team like the Suns would work wonders, but we should be past that point. With the current state of the roster we have to at least reload, and having a coach who does not see value in scorers and cannot seem to adjust to his roster is a recipe for disaster. We cannot expect Jokic and Murray to carry the offense every game.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#57 » by NuggetsWY » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:26 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:Lue has his question marks, he did find ways to get a lot of production out of role players and put together rotations to get the most out of those teams. With our lack of depth that is something that we need to look at hard when it comes to the next coach.


While I do think Lue has a few more X's and O's in him than Malone, without LBJ he'd have never won an NBA championship. And I realize we're down two men on the roster, but when did we go from one of the deepest teams to one with a lack of depth ??
We are a really deep team, if we use them effectively. The problem is, it's regular season depth. Who do you rely on in the playoffs?

28 ppg - Murray
25 ppg - Jokic
14 ppg - Porter
11 ppg - Grant

That totals 78 ppg and no one else is averaging 10 ppg. Porter plays limited minutes - mostly because of defense.

Utah also has just four players averaging more than 10 ppg.

40 ppg - Mitchell
27 ppg - Conley
20 ppg - Clarkson
19 ppg - Gobert

That totals 106 ppg - and they do not depend on a deep bench. Benches seldom win in the playoffs; maybe a game now and then, but not a series.

Maybe next year Porter is averaging 20+ but we just don't have playoff depth - not in scoring.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#58 » by skywalker33 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:57 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:Maybe next year Porter is averaging 20+ but we just don't have playoff depth - not in scoring.


Whatever Porter averages next year, he better start working on his defense this off-season so he can stay in the lineup.
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#59 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:22 am

skywalker33 wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:Maybe next year Porter is averaging 20+ but we just don't have playoff depth - not in scoring.

Whatever Porter averages next year, he better start working on his defense this off-season so he can stay in the lineup.

As amazing as it might seem, I think his defense has improved this year :eek2: :dontknow:
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Re: Coach Malone 

Post#60 » by skywalker33 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:34 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:Maybe next year Porter is averaging 20+ but we just don't have playoff depth - not in scoring.

Whatever Porter averages next year, he better start working on his defense this off-season so he can stay in the lineup.

As amazing as it might seem, I think his defense has improved this year :eek2: :dontknow:


I'd say it's sad as he clearly needs a lot of work on his defense
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