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[Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension

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[Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#1 » by skywalker33 » Mon Jul 1, 2019 4:36 am

Sorry Alantan but Shams is reporting the Denver Nuggets have agree to a max extension with rising star Jamal Murray for 5yrs and $170M

Good move from the FO, now all we'll have to worry about is signing Beasley and Juancho (?)
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#2 » by Manolito » Mon Jul 1, 2019 4:45 am

I love Murray and I guess he deserved a max deal, but would not have been better to pay him next offseason?

His Cap hold would have given us flexibility to potentially sign anybody.

I would have expected a slight discount by signing one summer.earlier.

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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#3 » by NuggetsWY » Mon Jul 1, 2019 7:17 am

Manolito wrote:I love Murray and I guess he deserved a max deal, but would not have been better to pay him next offseason?

His Cap hold would have given us flexibility to potentially sign anybody.

I would have expected a slight discount by signing one summer.earlier.

"Slight discount" - but is it worth that? Giving him this contract now will create a great deal of good will for Murray and impress other players. Our two most important players are locked up for a while. If the Nuggets take good care of other players (who don't get a max), it'll make it easier to get good players down the road.
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#4 » by THE J0KER » Mon Jul 1, 2019 8:52 am

Manolito wrote:I love Murray and I guess he deserved a max deal, but would not have been better to pay him next offseason?

His Cap hold would have given us flexibility to potentially sign anybody.

I would have expected a slight discount by signing one summer.earlier.

Exactly.

Murray is actually clearly not yet the max-contract player, 18-4-5 with 54%TS% is clearly far from that when you see year older D'Angelo Russell with 21-4-7 and All-Star debut signed 117/4. But I sincerely believe in Murray future progress, it is not the problem here (I hope not), but this bizarre timing. It gives Denver less room to add another big name in the near future, especially if we know that Nuggets ownership’s have no willingness to enter the tax, and no single sign it will be changed. Also, young players are more motivated to improve during contract year if they not signed already max deal previous summer, just compare Jokic case with KAT/Wiggins. And also, that must be said, the teams protecting their interests waiting until last moment because of potential injury during the contract year. Murray current NBA status for sure is not a "generational talent" or something close to that, where the max price would not be damaged even with ACL or some other big injury during the contract year.

Golden State was a small franchise during their Oakland era, but when they realized how good are Curry-Klay-Green trio, they didn't hurry to lock them with max contracts, but contrary, they manipulated with their first contract salaries as much as possible to create extra space to fulfill team with useful role players. And I'm talking here about GSW owners famous as luxary taxpayers. But they have a big picture, a big vision, and big goals, and the same we can see for years in another Western Conference small market team, San Antonio Spurs. But what is a vision of FC Arsenal owners and management? To be a stable TOP5 team in England (or very close) and TOP15 in Europe (or very close to that) without trying too much to have at least 1/10 chances to be ever again England Premier League Champion or UEFA Champions League semifinalist.

If you still not understand what I'm trying to say, ok, I will stop using comparisons and say it directly. This move proves me once again that Tim Conelly front office and Kroenke owners goal from Nuggets Jokic era is the same as it was from the Carmelo era when the team was constantly TOP5 on the West (or close) and TOP10 in the League, but out of 8 consecutive playoff appearances with Melo, almost every time (7/8) Nuggets lost in round one. Nikola Jokic already has a better impact on the team than peak Anthony, but without enough support, it only means more 2nd rounds, not NBA or at least WC finals for sure.

At the end just to repeat the part about Murray. I believe he will be much more consistent next season which means at least 21+ ppg and even more important efficiency improvement (let's say 57%+ TS%). It is still not max-contract worthy numbers, but at least are close, and unlike when you overpaying veterans, this 5 year deal with a youngster can be a good investment because of that last, 5th season, is expected to be his best, on prime. So, when I complain about this deal it is not because we signed max with a player which still not proved he is worthy max deal because I truly believe he will prove it at some point lately or reach the very close level (for small market teams close to max always means max). I'm complain questioning "why now?" and "what this says about our franchise?".
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#5 » by _Joker » Mon Jul 1, 2019 10:07 am

Huge contract.

There's no doubt that he's not worth that kind of money currently, however we couldn't afford to lose him either. It's one of those unfortunate results of being a small market team.

Hopefully Murray keeps improving like he has each season. If he can become a 22-25 point per game and dish out 7/8 assists per game, whilst getting hot like few can, then he'll be worth it.
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#6 » by Mickey8 » Mon Jul 1, 2019 11:47 am

First Barton now Murray, they will regret this one too, he's not worth that much of money, he's in Garry Harris range maybe little bit more, very bad deal for the Nuggets , he's not the player who makes the difference and he shouldn't be the most paid player on the team.
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#7 » by THE J0KER » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:23 pm

Mickey8 wrote:First Barton now Murray, they will regret this one too, he's not worth that much of money, he's in Garry Harris range maybe little bit more, very bad deal for the Nuggets , he's not the player who makes the difference and he shouldn't be the most paid player on the team.

Murray alone is already more useful than Millsap, Plumlee, and Barton (+4.5M Lyles) together which we paying $60M this season, and two years ago we have totally useless Chandler, Faried, and Arthur. If we analyze our signings in the post-Anthony era, this is actually one of the better contracts we have done in terms of production per dollar divided to the salary cap at the time. Not good as N.Jokic, G.Harris, T.Craig, J.Nelson, or W.Barton 10/3 first Denver deal, but better than most of others deals. I will put him together with our Galinnari deals which many estimated it as clear overpay when we sign it, but after the deal expired it looks like correct deal or just little bit overpay (which is OK for small market teams).

Murray is actually the only our player which makes difference apart of Jokic, and it is unfair to compare his production only with Jokic. We (over)pay Millsap 90/3 which is the max type of the contract back in 2017.
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#8 » by NuggetsWY » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:47 pm

THE J0KER wrote:
Mickey8 wrote:First Barton now Murray, they will regret this one too, he's not worth that much of money, he's in Garry Harris range maybe little bit more, very bad deal for the Nuggets , he's not the player who makes the difference and he shouldn't be the most paid player on the team.

Murray alone is already more useful than Millsap, Plumlee, and Barton (+4.5M Lyles) together which we paying $60M this season, and two years ago we have totally useless Chandler, Faried, and Arthur. If we analyze our signings in the post-Anthony era, this is actually one of the better contracts we have done in terms of production per dollar divided to the salary cap at the time. Not good as N.Jokic, G.Harris, T.Craig, J.Nelson, or W.Barton 10/3 first Denver deal, but better than most of others deals. I will put him together with our Galinnari deals which many estimated it as clear overpay when we sign it, but after the deal expired it looks like correct deal or just little bit overpay (which is OK for small market teams).

Murray is actually the only our player which makes difference apart of Jokic, and it is unfair to compare his production only with Jokic. We (over)pay Millsap 90/3 which is the max type of the contract back in 2017.

:nod: :clap: :cowboy:
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#9 » by U hova » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:51 pm

Murray alone isn't more useful than Millsap. Guard depth is a relative strength of ours.
But this deal was more or less expected. I wasn't prepared for the raw $$$ total but we've been harping him up to be the 2nd all-star next to Jokic for a while.
I haven't bothered to look at the other stuff but I'm hoping it won't affect our ability to retain Beasley/Morris or MPJ/Vanderbilt when their times come.

Edit: for reference, the on/off numbers suggest Millsap makes a +8.6 net difference (comparing raw on/off ortg/drtg numbers) while Jamal is 2.6). That much should be obvious though, since Millsap's off minutes were usually Lyles or PFlumlee's On minutes... which circles back to what I said above - we have a lot of good guards on this roster, on cheap deals that will not be cheap in 2 or 3 seasons if they continue to show that they are good guards.
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#10 » by cjx » Mon Jul 1, 2019 5:00 pm

Nuggets in the 2020 NBA Finals, signed, sealed and delivered, folks, no doubt.
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#11 » by NuggetsWY » Mon Jul 1, 2019 8:14 pm

cjx wrote:Nuggets in the 2020 NBA Finals, signed, sealed and delivered, folks, no doubt.

Nobody was saying that last year. :rockon:
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#12 » by _Joker » Mon Jul 1, 2019 8:59 pm

Mickey8 wrote:First Barton now Murray, they will regret this one too, he's not worth that much of money, he's in Garry Harris range maybe little bit more, very bad deal for the Nuggets , he's not the player who makes the difference and he shouldn't be the most paid player on the team.


Disagree, Murray is certainly a (potential) difference maker. Few players in the league can get hot like him.

We saw him improve in every facet of his game this season, so it would be reasonable to assume that this improvement will continue given his age and history to date.

Plus he doesn't need to shoulder all the load offensively given we have the Joker, which is good for a somewhat streaky player. We just need more consistency from him, reducing the gap between his worst and his best games, which comes with experience IMO.
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#13 » by LeverRed » Mon Jul 1, 2019 9:59 pm

A contract like this from the nuggets shows Goodwill to a young player who is still progressing , I feel like this year will be a very big year for Murray I expect all of his stats to jump up and his consistency to improve he is a hard-working young player dedicated to the gym and will play hurt not many people want to do that these days especially the playing hurt Part
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#14 » by TunaFish » Mon Jul 1, 2019 11:47 pm

LeverRed wrote:A contract like this from the nuggets shows Goodwill to a young player who is still progressing , I feel like this year will be a very big year for Murray I expect all of his stats to jump up and his consistency to improve he is a hard-working young player dedicated to the gym and will play hurt not many people want to do that these days especially the playing hurt Part


They are locking in their core early. Murray looks to me like a future all star and that future may be real soon. Nuggets look to have at least two stars with two max contracts for the next decade and then you add a wildcard like Michael Porter, Jr. You can see the Nuggets plan vividly (except at pf).

It wasn't so long ago that Nugget's fans were screaming for a star and now they have two.
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#15 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Jul 2, 2019 2:17 am

TunaFish wrote:
LeverRed wrote:A contract like this from the nuggets shows Goodwill to a young player who is still progressing , I feel like this year will be a very big year for Murray I expect all of his stats to jump up and his consistency to improve he is a hard-working young player dedicated to the gym and will play hurt not many people want to do that these days especially the playing hurt Part

They are locking in their core early. Murray looks to me like a future all star and that future may be real soon. Nuggets look to have at least two stars with two max contracts for the next decade and then you add a wildcard like Michael Porter, Jr. You can see the Nuggets plan vividly (except at pf).

It wasn't so long ago that Nugget's fans were screaming for a star and now they have two.

For those who think this contract is too big; July 2015 Damian Lillard signed a new contract many thought was crazy. It was for five years at around $125m. Now that's such a deal they just game him an extension for $196m over the next 4 years. In a couple years, Murray's contract might be rather small, if he lives up to his potential.
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#16 » by The Rebel » Tue Jul 2, 2019 12:22 pm

I have known they would max Murray for at least a year, so it was no surprise, I was just hoping they would wait until next offseason and try to add the biggest free agent they could get with the cap space. This kills that idea, but I can understand their reasoning in doing the deal now.
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#17 » by Alatan » Tue Jul 2, 2019 4:58 pm

skywalker33 wrote:Sorry Alantan but Shams is reporting the Denver Nuggets have agree to a max extension with rising star Jamal Murray for 5yrs and $170M

Good move from the FO, now all we'll have to worry about is signing Beasley and Juancho (?)


Currently he is maybe worth half of that contract. Has a long way to go to justify this move.
Hope he proves me wrong, but i still want to trade him for Jrue. 8-)
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#18 » by Coeur » Tue Jul 2, 2019 5:59 pm

This was automatic. Murray is a huge difference maker.
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#19 » by THE J0KER » Tue Jul 2, 2019 6:20 pm

The Rebel wrote:I have known they would max Murray for at least a year, so it was no surprise, I was just hoping they would wait until next offseason and try to add the biggest free agent they could get with the cap space. This kills that idea, but I can understand their reasoning in doing the deal now.
I can't see any reason for this early paying, except in making already an alibi for not doing anything this summer and next summer too.

Back in 2006 young all-star and Nuggets franchise player Carmelo Anthony was already a big star, and there are toxic rumors around about his future, so signing him a year early seems legit move. Two years ago Jokic is already a franchise player and all-star level too, but no reasons to rush things, so even in Jokic case we didn't do this (with a reason!). Most established (already all-star) player of Murray class is Ben Simmons, his powerful agent make pressure on Sixers to sign 5y max already in Sunday, but Sixers FO was busy that day signing two other max deals which really can't wait, now when T.Harris and Horford are signed, they can sign Ben too. Pascal Siakam is the 2nd best player of NBA champions, and most probably the best since next week after Kawhi goes, but Masai Ujiri does not hurry anywhere.

And I repeat, I'm sure that next summer, if no hard injury, Murray price would be exactly 5y max-deal. If Connelly or Josh at least give some sign that in near future Nuggets ownership is open to pay the luxury tax, there will be fewer reasons to worry that we will constantly be in treadmill mode with some small thing is missing without FO trying to fix it via trade or on FA market even if it was obvious.
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Re: [Shams] Murray agrees to 5/$170M extension 

Post#20 » by skywalker33 » Tue Jul 2, 2019 6:45 pm

Alatan wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:Sorry Alantan but Shams is reporting the Denver Nuggets have agree to a max extension with rising star Jamal Murray for 5yrs and $170M

Good move from the FO, now all we'll have to worry about is signing Beasley and Juancho (?)


Currently he is maybe worth half of that contract. Has a long way to go to justify this move.
Hope he proves me wrong, but i still want to trade him for Jrue. 8-)


Dude, you say he has a long way to go to justify it (to you ??) yet the guy you want to trade him for wasn't nearly the player Murray is at the same age. Jrue in his 3rd year was averaging 13.5/4.5/3.3 compared to Jamal's 18.5/4.8/4.2 ...just sayin' :D
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