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Being the biggest disappointment of the team for the long this season, Grant find himself much better in the starter's role this month. That is not surprise considering that in Oklahoma last season, unlike others, he has much better numbers playing with Westbrook and George on the floor. Sneaky alley-oop dunks and open threes are the best part of his offense, and you can't see it often when he is our 1st backup option as 6th man and the best passer is on the bench. Also, the Denver offense system was unique in NBA and much different than in Oklahoma last season, so Grant needs some time to adopt. His 3pt% before December is just 31% (TS%52%), but among best in NBA since December, 45% (TS%61%)!

THE J0KER wrote:Being the biggest disappointment of the team for the long this season, Grant find himself much better in the starter's role this month. That is not surprise considering that in Oklahoma last season, unlike others, he has much better numbers playing with Westbrook and George on the floor. Sneaky alley-oop dunks and open threes are the best part of his offense, and you can't see it often when he is our 1st backup option as 6th man and the best passer is on the bench. Also, the Denver offense system was unique in NBA and much different than in Oklahoma last season, so Grant needs some time to adopt. His 3pt% before December is just 31% (TS%52%), but among best in NBA since December, 45% (TS%61%)!

I would hardly consider Grant the BIGGEST disappointment this season, Juancho seems a bigger one to me he has had time with Joker and still can't break into the rotation.

skywalker33 wrote:

THE J0KER wrote:Being the biggest disappointment of the team for the long this season, Grant find himself much better in the starter's role this month. That is not surprise considering that in Oklahoma last season, unlike others, he has much better numbers playing with Westbrook and George on the floor. Sneaky alley-oop dunks and open threes are the best part of his offense, and you can't see it often when he is our 1st backup option as 6th man and the best passer is on the bench. Also, the Denver offense system was unique in NBA and much different than in Oklahoma last season, so Grant needs some time to adopt. His 3pt% before December is just 31% (TS%52%), but among best in NBA since December, 45% (TS%61%)!

I would hardly consider Grant the BIGGEST disappointment this season, Juancho seems a bigger one to me he has had time with Joker and still can't break into the rotation.

Or Beasley?

Nuggets will have to seriously consider starting Grant at the PF spot and possibly even get some backup C minutes somehow when Paul Millsap comes back. His ability to switch onto bigs/guards is VERY valuable.

skywalker33 wrote:

THE J0KER wrote:Being the biggest disappointment of the team for the long this season, Grant find himself much better in the starter's role this month. That is not surprise considering that in Oklahoma last season, unlike others, he has much better numbers playing with Westbrook and George on the floor. Sneaky alley-oop dunks and open threes are the best part of his offense, and you can't see it often when he is our 1st backup option as 6th man and the best passer is on the bench. Also, the Denver offense system was unique in NBA and much different than in Oklahoma last season, so Grant needs some time to adopt. His 3pt% before December is just 31% (TS%52%), but among best in NBA since December, 45% (TS%61%)!

I would hardly consider Grant the BIGGEST disappointment this season, Juancho seems a bigger one to me he has had time with Joker and still can't break into the rotation.

The biggest disappointment before December (I presented already the radical difference in his shooting efficiency before and since December).

THE J0KER wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:

THE J0KER wrote:Being the biggest disappointment of the team for the long this season, Grant find himself much better in the starter's role this month. That is not surprise considering that in Oklahoma last season, unlike others, he has much better numbers playing with Westbrook and George on the floor. Sneaky alley-oop dunks and open threes are the best part of his offense, and you can't see it often when he is our 1st backup option as 6th man and the best passer is on the bench. Also, the Denver offense system was unique in NBA and much different than in Oklahoma last season, so Grant needs some time to adopt. His 3pt% before December is just 31% (TS%52%), but among best in NBA since December, 45% (TS%61%)!

I would hardly consider Grant the BIGGEST disappointment this season, Juancho seems a bigger one to me he has had time with Joker and still can't break into the rotation.

The biggest disappointment before December (I presented already the radical difference in his shooting efficiency before and since December).

Beyond last nights performance, I say FOR THE SEASON, Juancho has been the BIGGEST disappointment, especially considering where he was drafted and what he had/has a chance to become...which may be somewhere else. I'd say Grant has a better shot at staying in Denver than Juancho does, even at his PO vs resigning Juancho.

skywalker33 wrote:

THE J0KER wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:
I would hardly consider Grant the BIGGEST disappointment this season, Juancho seems a bigger one to me he has had time with Joker and still can't break into the rotation.

The biggest disappointment before December (I presented already the radical difference in his shooting efficiency before and since December).

Beyond last nights performance, I say FOR THE SEASON, Juancho has been the BIGGEST disappointment, especially considering where he was drafted and what he had/has a chance to become...which may be somewhere else. I'd say Grant has a better shot at staying in Denver than Juancho does, even at his PO vs resigning Juancho.

I'm not too disappointed in Hernangomez - because it's hard to do much or be consistent when your coach doesn't play you much.

NuggetsWY wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:

THE J0KER wrote:The biggest disappointment before December (I presented already the radical difference in his shooting efficiency before and since December).

Beyond last nights performance, I say FOR THE SEASON, Juancho has been the BIGGEST disappointment, especially considering where he was drafted and what he had/has a chance to become...which may be somewhere else. I'd say Grant has a better shot at staying in Denver than Juancho does, even at his PO vs resigning Juancho.

I'm not too disappointed in Hernangomez - because it's hard to do much or be consistent when your coach doesn't play you much.

Given what Hernangomez has shown when he has gotten PT, can't say I blame a coach for not playing him when HIS job is on the line.

Grant is playing at a different level now. He certainly seems to have adjusted to a starting role. I wonder if they will move Millsap to the bench when he returns because of how well Grant is playing?

skywalker33 wrote:

NuggetsWY wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:
Beyond last nights performance, I say FOR THE SEASON, Juancho has been the BIGGEST disappointment, especially considering where he was drafted and what he had/has a chance to become...which may be somewhere else. I'd say Grant has a better shot at staying in Denver than Juancho does, even at his PO vs resigning Juancho.

I'm not too disappointed in Hernangomez - because it's hard to do much or be consistent when your coach doesn't play you much.

Given what Hernangomez has shown when he has gotten PT, can't say I blame a coach for not playing him when HIS job is on the line.

Don't know what happenned but somewhere something broke in Juancho's head. He stopped having any activity on offense. He just stays there and sometimes it feels like he wishes nobody tries to pass him a ball. Some crazy numbers. In calendar year 2019 he scored TWICE in double figures. Not saying basketball is only about scoring but this is really bad.

What do you expect to happen with Grant this offseason?

He has a $9M player option
Millsap is a FA - re-signing him probably puts you are luxury tax levels

Has he upped his value beyond $9M?

As a GSW fan, i'm wondering if he is a viable target for the TPE ($17M). I don't think he's worth either the 2020 first (likely top 6, if not top 3), or 2021 MIN first (top 3 protected, then 2022 unprotected). There's probably a way to use the 2021 GSW pick with some sort of protection.

OptionZero wrote:What do you expect to happen with Grant this offseason?

He has a $9M player option
Millsap is a FA - re-signing him probably puts you are luxury tax levels

Has he upped his value beyond $9M?

As a GSW fan, i'm wondering if he is a viable target for the TPE ($17M). I don't think he's worth either the 2020 first (likely top 6, if not top 3), or 2021 MIN first (top 3 protected, then 2022 unprotected). There's probably a way to use the 2021 GSW pick with some sort of protection.

Grant hasn't exactly lit off the fireworks here but he has sparked enough interest for us to try to keep him. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say he gets resigned for a 3yr/$11-12M per year raise. As for Millsap, if he doesn't retire or join the coaching staff, he won't get anywhere close to the $30M he's making, I actually believe we picked up this year TO with some sort of "handshake" agreement for a minor 2-yr deal.

As as a GSW fan, your team is already a repeater in the Luxury Tax, I doubt your team would be willing to make that move.

OptionZero wrote:What do you expect to happen with Grant this offseason?

He has a $9M player option
Millsap is a FA - re-signing him probably puts you are luxury tax levels

Has he upped his value beyond $9M?

As a GSW fan, i'm wondering if he is a viable target for the TPE ($17M). I don't think he's worth either the 2020 first (likely top 6, if not top 3), or 2021 MIN first (top 3 protected, then 2022 unprotected). There's probably a way to use the 2021 GSW pick with some sort of protection.

We offered 6th man with 40/3 twice (Barton and Plumlee), and once didn't want to offer 40/3 (Beasley) so we lost him. I guess we will offer something like that to Grant, or we lose him.

That said, I must note that losing Plumlee, Millsap, and Grant all-three this summer will not be such a disaster as it seems in the near past. It is because now seems that Porter with his elite rebounding can play PF as his basic position without a problem, and that Bol Bol can be useful already next season in covering PF/C from the bench, so we just need another trustful backup big-man veteran, and market is cheap these days for that position. So we will be in a position to invest Harris and other available assets to get from trade SG or SF star player with a max contract.

skywalker33 wrote:

OptionZero wrote:What do you expect to happen with Grant this offseason?

He has a $9M player option
Millsap is a FA - re-signing him probably puts you are luxury tax levels

Has he upped his value beyond $9M?

As a GSW fan, i'm wondering if he is a viable target for the TPE ($17M). I don't think he's worth either the 2020 first (likely top 6, if not top 3), or 2021 MIN first (top 3 protected, then 2022 unprotected). There's probably a way to use the 2021 GSW pick with some sort of protection.

Grant hasn't exactly lit off the fireworks here but he has sparked enough interest for us to try to keep him. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say he gets resigned for a 3yr/$11-12M per year raise. As for Millsap, if he doesn't retire or join the coaching staff, he won't get anywhere close to the $30M he's making, I actually believe we picked up this year TO with some sort of "handshake" agreement for a minor 2-yr deal.

As as a GSW fan, your team is already a repeater in the Luxury Tax, I doubt your team would be willing to make that move.

Warriors are not repeater tax next season, and Iguodala´s TPE can land them some good players.

Grant will opt out and Nuggets should sign him in a longer deal, he is a perfect fit next to Jokic and his age matches with core players'. We only have Early Bird rights but that should be enough to get him. Any deal around 40-45M x 3 years would be a good deal IMO. He has been playing really good in January with Millsap out and he has been steadly every season, we can not lose such a piece. He is a poor rebounder but with Jokic and MPJ around that is not an issue at all.

We must let Plumlee go and try to sign Millsap a couple of years in a very cheap deal (hopefully lower than MLE)

Manolito wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:

OptionZero wrote:What do you expect to happen with Grant this offseason?

He has a $9M player option
Millsap is a FA - re-signing him probably puts you are luxury tax levels

Has he upped his value beyond $9M?

As a GSW fan, i'm wondering if he is a viable target for the TPE ($17M). I don't think he's worth either the 2020 first (likely top 6, if not top 3), or 2021 MIN first (top 3 protected, then 2022 unprotected). There's probably a way to use the 2021 GSW pick with some sort of protection.

Grant hasn't exactly lit off the fireworks here but he has sparked enough interest for us to try to keep him. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say he gets resigned for a 3yr/$11-12M per year raise. As for Millsap, if he doesn't retire or join the coaching staff, he won't get anywhere close to the $30M he's making, I actually believe we picked up this year TO with some sort of "handshake" agreement for a minor 2-yr deal.

As as a GSW fan, your team is already a repeater in the Luxury Tax, I doubt your team would be willing to make that move.

Warriors are not repeater tax next season, and Iguodala´s TPE can land them some good players.

Grant will opt out and Nuggets should sign him in a longer deal, he is a perfect fit next to Jokic and his age matches with core players'. We only have Early Bird rights but that should be enough to get him. Any deal around 40-45M x 3 years would be a good deal IMO. He has been playing really good in January with Millsap out and he has been steadly every season, we can not lose such a piece. He is a poor rebounder but with Jokic and MPJ around that is not an issue at all.

We must let Plumlee go and try to sign Millsap a couple of years in a very cheap deal (hopefully lower than MLE)

You are correct Mano, however over the next two years (barring trades of one of Curry, Klay, Wiggins or Dray) the Warriors will be in the Luxury Tax as their current caps looks like $156MM and $166MM which would only increase with the acquisition of Grant. And interestingly enough, doesn't Draymont and Grant have similar roles ??

And as proposed, trading Grant for an 2021 GSW 1st would be negative value as we gave our 2020 1st which seems to be higher that what to expect from the GSW 1st, is that a trade you'd make Mano ??

That would be obviously a horrible trade.

Grant is a very important piece if this project and I hope they renew him for many years (at the right price).

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Manolito wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:

OptionZero wrote:What do you expect to happen with Grant this offseason?

He has a $9M player option
Millsap is a FA - re-signing him probably puts you are luxury tax levels

Has he upped his value beyond $9M?

As a GSW fan, i'm wondering if he is a viable target for the TPE ($17M). I don't think he's worth either the 2020 first (likely top 6, if not top 3), or 2021 MIN first (top 3 protected, then 2022 unprotected). There's probably a way to use the 2021 GSW pick with some sort of protection.

Grant hasn't exactly lit off the fireworks here but he has sparked enough interest for us to try to keep him. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say he gets resigned for a 3yr/$11-12M per year raise. As for Millsap, if he doesn't retire or join the coaching staff, he won't get anywhere close to the $30M he's making, I actually believe we picked up this year TO with some sort of "handshake" agreement for a minor 2-yr deal.

As as a GSW fan, your team is already a repeater in the Luxury Tax, I doubt your team would be willing to make that move.

Warriors are not repeater tax next season, and Iguodala´s TPE can land them some good players.

Grant will opt out and Nuggets should sign him in a longer deal, he is a perfect fit next to Jokic and his age matches with core players'. We only have Early Bird rights but that should be enough to get him. Any deal around 40-45M x 3 years would be a good deal IMO. He has been playing really good in January with Millsap out and he has been steadly every season, we can not lose such a piece. He is a poor rebounder but with Jokic and MPJ around that is not an issue at all.

We must let Plumlee go and try to sign Millsap a couple of years in a very cheap deal (hopefully lower than MLE)

We have Grant's full bird rights, they come along in trades.

I do not see anyway they keep Millsap over Grant at this point. Aging not only makes you a little slower on the court but it also makes you more injury prone while taking longer to heal. In Millsap's 1st 9 years he missed 12 or more games 1 time. In this season and the last 3 seasons he has missed at least 12 games, and this year he has already missed 20 games. I doubt it gets better in any year going forward. I can see them giving him a 2 or 3 year deal with Grant getting a deal starting around $11 million a year which is slightly more than the MLE. I can then see them giving Millsap a $8 million a year deal for 3 years with the 3rd partially guaranteed and I think he makes a lot of sense to keep. Especially if he is willing to come off the bench at times and play limited minutes.

I do not see anyway that they can afford to keep Plumlee. I think he gets a deal for at least the MLE, and I think he with get 3 or 4 years on it. That is just too much for a backup Center. I think that is why Vonleh is here, to learn our system and see if we want to keep him. I also think the plan at least initially is to have Bol as the backup Center next year with a cheap 3rd Center like Vonleh.

I don't see anyway that was trade a player of Grant's quality to the Warriors or any of the other top teams without a big overpay. Grant would be a very good fit in their system as a spot up shooter and help defender, it would take a lot more for me to make that trade.

The Rebel wrote:

Manolito wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:
Grant hasn't exactly lit off the fireworks here but he has sparked enough interest for us to try to keep him. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say he gets resigned for a 3yr/$11-12M per year raise. As for Millsap, if he doesn't retire or join the coaching staff, he won't get anywhere close to the $30M he's making, I actually believe we picked up this year TO with some sort of "handshake" agreement for a minor 2-yr deal.

As as a GSW fan, your team is already a repeater in the Luxury Tax, I doubt your team would be willing to make that move.

Warriors are not repeater tax next season, and Iguodala´s TPE can land them some good players.

Grant will opt out and Nuggets should sign him in a longer deal, he is a perfect fit next to Jokic and his age matches with core players'. We only have Early Bird rights but that should be enough to get him. Any deal around 40-45M x 3 years would be a good deal IMO. He has been playing really good in January with Millsap out and he has been steadly every season, we can not lose such a piece. He is a poor rebounder but with Jokic and MPJ around that is not an issue at all.

We must let Plumlee go and try to sign Millsap a couple of years in a very cheap deal (hopefully lower than MLE)

We have Grant's full bird rights, they come along in trades.

I do not see anyway they keep Millsap over Grant at this point. Aging not only makes you a little slower on the court but it also makes you more injury prone while taking longer to heal. In Millsap's 1st 9 years he missed 12 or more games 1 time. In this season and the last 3 seasons he has missed at least 12 games, and this year he has already missed 20 games. I doubt it gets better in any year going forward. I can see them giving him a 2 or 3 year deal with Grant getting a deal starting around $11 million a year which is slightly more than the MLE. I can then see them giving Millsap a $8 million a year deal for 3 years with the 3rd partially guaranteed and I think he makes a lot of sense to keep. Especially if he is willing to come off the bench at times and play limited minutes.

I do not see anyway that they can afford to keep Plumlee. I think he gets a deal for at least the MLE, and I think he with get 3 or 4 years on it. That is just too much for a backup Center. I think that is why Vonleh is here, to learn our system and see if we want to keep him. I also think the plan at least initially is to have Bol as the backup Center next year with a cheap 3rd Center like Vonleh.

I don't see anyway that was trade a player of Grant's quality to the Warriors or any of the other top teams without a big overpay. Grant would be a very good fit in their system as a spot up shooter and help defender, it would take a lot more for me to make that trade.

No, if he opts out (which most likely will happen), we only have Early Bird rights, he signed a 2+1 deal in OKC. We can maximum offer him 56Mx4, which I think is his fair value (last year I would try to include non fully guaranteed)

Grant was offered a significantly cheaper deal By okc earlier in the same year that he signed his current deal. He declined it and bet on himself. It worked out to his benefit as he got a much better contract. I can’t remember the exact numbers he declined but he really wasn’t worth more than that at the time until he proved it that year. Some of that was his own development and some of it was the issues with having him alongside Melo and Patterson. After he signed his deal he made some comments about making sure he got what he was worth. They weren’t negative/greedy comments by any means.

All of that to say my thoughts on Grant are that he’s inclined to stay in a situation he likes if he feels the offer is fair but wouldn’t hesitate to walk away if he felt he wasn’t offered fair. There’s nothing overly significant to what I just said but just wanted to share a little backstory for those that didn’t know.

ThunderBolt wrote:Grant was offered a significantly cheaper deal By okc earlier in the same year that he signed his current deal. He declined it and bet on himself. It worked out to his benefit as he got a much better contract. I can’t remember the exact numbers he declined but he really wasn’t worth more than that at the time until he proved it that year. Some of that was his own development and some of it was the issues with having him alongside Melo and Patterson. After he signed his deal he made some comments about making sure he got what he was worth. They weren’t negative/greedy comments by any means.

All of that to say my thoughts on Grant are that he’s inclined to stay in a situation he likes if he feels the offer is fair but wouldn’t hesitate to walk away if he felt he wasn’t offered fair. There’s nothing overly significant to what I just said but just wanted to share a little backstory for those that didn’t know.

The Nuggets have a history of overpaying their role players - in my opinion. They like players like you've described.