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Nuggets Trades

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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1341 » by DaFan334 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 5:52 am

The Rebel wrote:By Malone refusing to play Bol or Nnaji he is saying that neither is good enough to give any minutes too, despite it being painfully obvious that the 4 guard lineup kills us in games. Truth is after watching Bol for the few minutes he did play, I agree with Malone on him, but I think Nnaji getting minutes is best for the team long term, until we can find a suitable trade.


I couldn't agree with you on this more. I am just hoping someone around the league sees a lot more potential in Bol than I have seen this year. His value might have peaked during the bubble. He just seems lost.

Nnaji I really think could make an impact. I hate to hope for a Milsap injury, but he could use some rest to let the young man get some minutes here soon.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1342 » by skywalker33 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 5:14 pm

Seeing how Millsap has declined, putting Nnaji into the rotation couldn't make us any worse and will help us in the long run IMO. Eventually, Nnaji was drafted to become the starting PF IMO, I really see that type of potential in him. He came out after his freshman season, bet he'd go a lot higher in this draft had he stayed.

We're not out of the playoff race but we're definitely behind. As Rebel has pointed out, it's not how you start the season, but you definitely want to be playing your best bball going into the playoffs so getting Nnaji some seasoning will more than likely pay off IMO.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1343 » by NuggetsWY » Sat Jan 9, 2021 11:42 pm

skywalker33 wrote:Seeing how Millsap has declined, putting Nnaji into the rotation couldn't make us any worse and will help us in the long run IMO. Eventually, Nnaji was drafted to become the starting PF IMO, I really see that type of potential in him. He came out after his freshman season, bet he'd go a lot higher in this draft had he stayed.

We're not out of the playoff race but we're definitely behind. As Rebel has pointed out, it's not how you start the season, but you definitely want to be playing your best bball going into the playoffs so getting Nnaji some seasoning will more than likely pay off IMO.

Careful Sky, too much talk about playing rookies isn't popular with everyone. :lol: But I absolutely agree and many, many former players turn announcer talk about learning in games is better than learning in practice.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1344 » by Richard Miller » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:56 am

Millsap's defense is not as it used to be, but offensively he's shooting almost career highs
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1345 » by king1389 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:50 am

Thank you all for warm welcome :)

Milsap is definitely declining, but maybe Greene could fill in starter role and Nnaji could get some minutes.
I don't see us getting much in return for Milsap in regular trade, so maybe we should wait for some bigger trades and try to switch Milsap and Barton for something more useful.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1346 » by skywalker33 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:39 am

king1389 wrote:Thank you all for warm welcome :)

Milsap is definitely declining, but maybe Greene could fill in starter role and Nnaji could get some minutes.
I don't see us getting much in return for Milsap in regular trade, so maybe we should wait for some bigger trades and try to switch Milsap and Barton for something more useful.


Millsap will have more value as an expiring, although closer to the deadline IMO. Barton could be the same but with his rollercoaster play who knows if he'll opt in or out (I'm guessing his ego will convince him to opt out). Having both expire here may have more value than trading both
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1347 » by The Rebel » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:17 am

skywalker33 wrote:
king1389 wrote:Thank you all for warm welcome :)

Milsap is definitely declining, but maybe Greene could fill in starter role and Nnaji could get some minutes.
I don't see us getting much in return for Milsap in regular trade, so maybe we should wait for some bigger trades and try to switch Milsap and Barton for something more useful.


Millsap will have more value as an expiring, although closer to the deadline IMO. Barton could be the same but with his rollercoaster play who knows if he'll opt in or out (I'm guessing his ego will convince him to opt out). Having both expire here may have more value than trading both


It would depend on who or what you were getting, but trading Millsap goes against what the front office has always been about.

It was pretty widely reported that Millsap and Boston were close to a deal when the Nuggets made their offer, so he reportedly choose to stay here for his family.

The front office likes to say that everybody is family and that they always take care of their players. They even bragged about trading Beasley and Juancho somewhere that they would get guaranteed minutes last year which both wanted. So if you trade Millsap it is going to have to be to a team that is at least as good as the Nuggets, a team willing to buy him out to go ring chase, or Atlanta (I say Atlanta because that is where he and his family stay during the offseason and he owns several businesses down there.).


Also you have to be aware that Millsap was signed to a 1 year deal using Bird Rights, so he has a no trade clause, making me think the only place they will be able to trade him would be Atlanta.

Barton I think they would trade in the right deal just so he can go be a starter elsewhere, but Millsap I don't think they will even try unless the Hawks want him.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1348 » by 2muchTLC » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:29 pm

Pascal siakam would be a great fit here defensive 3rd option on a championship team
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1349 » by The Rebel » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:24 pm

2muchTLC wrote:Pascal siakam would be a great fit here defensive 3rd option on a championship team


Sure, but the issue is that it cost at least Harris and 1 of Barton or Millsap (who effectively has a no trade clause) to make the deal work. Or Harris and 2-3 of our guys on rookie deals, which makes going after him much less appealing as we open a huge hole at SG and have to give up 2 of our high potential guys or remove what little depth we have at SF.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1350 » by Richard Miller » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:19 pm

The Rebel wrote:Also you have to be aware that Millsap was signed to a 1 year deal using Bird Rights, so he has a no trade clause, making me think the only place they will be able to trade him would be Atlanta.

Barton I think they would trade in the right deal just so he can go be a starter elsewhere, but Millsap I don't think they will even try unless the Hawks want him.


Millsap is turning 36 in a few days, I wouldn't be surprised if he retired after this, unless he has a really good season.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1351 » by skywalker33 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:59 pm

Richard Miller wrote:
The Rebel wrote:Also you have to be aware that Millsap was signed to a 1 year deal using Bird Rights, so he has a no trade clause, making me think the only place they will be able to trade him would be Atlanta.

Barton I think they would trade in the right deal just so he can go be a starter elsewhere, but Millsap I don't think they will even try unless the Hawks want him.


Millsap is turning 36 in a few days, I wouldn't be surprised if he retired after this, unless he has a really good season.


I am hopeful he joins our coaching staff
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1352 » by Alatan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:22 pm

The Rebel wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
For the life of me I cannot figure out why Fultz getting injured would make them want a SG/SF? At least give them a backup PG or something.

By the way I would not trade Barton, a prospect (even a bad prospect), and a 1st for Gordon. Gordon is not that much better than Barton, in fact this year it is arguable if Gordon even is better than Barton so far. Which is pretty damn scary to think about.

8 games are a very small sample, but there is no other decline in Gordon's game except his playing time dropped from 33-34 minutes from the past couple of years to just 25 so far this season which explains all his drops in row numbers per game. Gordon actually becomes a more efficient player than ever with a career-best TS% (57%) and defensive rating (DRtg 103). Will Barton's case is quite opposite, with career-worst TS% (46%) and DRtg (115). Small sample but so far clearly Gordon2021>>Barton2021.


I am assuming you are using basketball reference for your DRTGs? If so you should know that those are notorious for being way off. Also defensive rating is a very team dependent stat, the lineup you are in and the backup you have changes your ratings considerably, but if you want to use that we should go off of nba.com/stats the official stats.

Did you know that Gordon and Barton actually are only .2 different in defensive rating? With Gordon 108.6 and Barton 108.8, but the Magic have a defensive rating of 104.4 and the Nuggets are at 114.9, so Gordon makes his team more than 4 points worse per 100 possessions while Barton makes his team better by over 6 points per 100 possessions, using defensive rating kill you entire argument. Gordon has a net rating of 0.8 while Barton has a net rating of 5.1, with the higher the better Gordon has no argument using defensive or net ratings.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced/?sort=W&dir=-1
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203115/advanced/
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203932/advanced/

As for Gordon's shooting percentage, there is much more to the game than shooting, and considering Gordon is a known streaky shooter that always starts off the season hot, I am actually disappointed with his low TS%. that is just slightly over average, which is not good for a 3rd option as he has become this year.


People that think Gordon is a good defender dont know much about defense. Since he is big and jumps high they think that he is automatically a good defender. Realistically he cant guard smalls as he is not fast enough laterally, cant guard bigs as he is not big/long enough, cant protect the rim as he doesnt have enough length and skill, doesnt offer help defense as he has bad awareness and is not a good team defender for the same reason. He has some positives against other wings but he cant stop guys like Lebron so he is useless.

People wanting to trade for Gordon as just fanboys that think that Jokic could somehow unlock his "potential" since Gordon was really good in the dunk contest.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1353 » by The Rebel » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:04 am

Richard Miller wrote:
The Rebel wrote:Also you have to be aware that Millsap was signed to a 1 year deal using Bird Rights, so he has a no trade clause, making me think the only place they will be able to trade him would be Atlanta.

Barton I think they would trade in the right deal just so he can go be a starter elsewhere, but Millsap I don't think they will even try unless the Hawks want him.


Millsap is turning 36 in a few days, I wouldn't be surprised if he retired after this, unless he has a really good season.


I would be surprised if Millsap didn't retire after this year, which is why I doubt we trade him. He has declined to the point that a year from now I doubt he would ever get minutes. Which is why I doubt they trade him, no team wants him for anything other than his expiring deal and maybe the lockerroom teaching young guys at this point. Unless they are a contender and need someone that can guard true bigs, which is why I said he would be bought out and maybe ring chase. Unless they want him in Atlanta for the rest of the year, he was a pretty big star for them.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1354 » by The Rebel » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:13 am

Alatan wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:8 games are a very small sample, but there is no other decline in Gordon's game except his playing time dropped from 33-34 minutes from the past couple of years to just 25 so far this season which explains all his drops in row numbers per game. Gordon actually becomes a more efficient player than ever with a career-best TS% (57%) and defensive rating (DRtg 103). Will Barton's case is quite opposite, with career-worst TS% (46%) and DRtg (115). Small sample but so far clearly Gordon2021>>Barton2021.


I am assuming you are using basketball reference for your DRTGs? If so you should know that those are notorious for being way off. Also defensive rating is a very team dependent stat, the lineup you are in and the backup you have changes your ratings considerably, but if you want to use that we should go off of nba.com/stats the official stats.

Did you know that Gordon and Barton actually are only .2 different in defensive rating? With Gordon 108.6 and Barton 108.8, but the Magic have a defensive rating of 104.4 and the Nuggets are at 114.9, so Gordon makes his team more than 4 points worse per 100 possessions while Barton makes his team better by over 6 points per 100 possessions, using defensive rating kill you entire argument. Gordon has a net rating of 0.8 while Barton has a net rating of 5.1, with the higher the better Gordon has no argument using defensive or net ratings.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced/?sort=W&dir=-1
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203115/advanced/
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203932/advanced/

As for Gordon's shooting percentage, there is much more to the game than shooting, and considering Gordon is a known streaky shooter that always starts off the season hot, I am actually disappointed with his low TS%. that is just slightly over average, which is not good for a 3rd option as he has become this year.


People that think Gordon is a good defender dont know much about defense. Since he is big and jumps high they think that he is automatically a good defender. Realistically he cant guard smalls as he is not fast enough laterally, cant guard bigs as he is not big/long enough, cant protect the rim as he doesnt have enough length and skill, doesnt offer help defense as he has bad awareness and is not a good team defender for the same reason. He has some positives against other wings but he cant stop guys like Lebron so he is useless.

People wanting to trade for Gordon as just fanboys that think that Jokic could somehow unlock his "potential" since Gordon was really good in the dunk contest.


Somewhere along the line everybody started thinking that blocked shots were the be all end all of defense for bigs, once upon a time I was taught that a block shot is a failure of the defense. Very few watch the guys getting cut off before they even get to the rim, the strips, the forced bad passes, travels, and shot clock violations. Those take more focus and do not make the highlight reel. They are all more effective than a blocked shot which actually has been shown to actually lower the opposing teams scoring by 2% on the possessions.

Gordon is an average starter, in the right matchups he does well, in the wrong ones he looks terrible. I would say your analysis is right for the most part, but if someone only watches highlights they think he is a star that is just on a terrible team. AFter all the highlight shows don't show the bad plays or games.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1355 » by skywalker33 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:31 pm

Anyone who sees Gordon anything more than a 4th/5th option on this team must be Gordon's father/mother/brother/sister/girlfriend or agent.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1356 » by Alatan » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:22 pm

My Murray hate is sparking up again. Should we trade him and what could we get for him? Ye, ye i know. Im not a real Nuggets fan, yada, yada, yada. Really i cant stand the way he doesnt show up in every other game and every other quarter.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1357 » by Manolito » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:26 pm

Time to land PJ Tucker for a second round pick

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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1358 » by psimanic1 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:26 pm

Alatan wrote:My Murray hate is sparking up again. Should we trade him and what could we get for him? Ye, ye i know. Im not a real Nuggets fan, yada, yada, yada. Really i cant stand the way he doesnt show up in every other game and every other quarter.

Put that on Barton, two of them CANT coexist, Murray needs the ball in his hands and Barton does too, difference is Murray knows what to do with it and Barton does not
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1359 » by Alatan » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:32 pm

psimanic1 wrote:
Alatan wrote:My Murray hate is sparking up again. Should we trade him and what could we get for him? Ye, ye i know. Im not a real Nuggets fan, yada, yada, yada. Really i cant stand the way he doesnt show up in every other game and every other quarter.

Put that on Barton, two of them CANT coexist, Murray needs the ball in his hands and Barton does too, difference is Murray knows what to do with it and Barton does not


I dont know. Murray has always been like this. The bubble was the exception and now he is back to being his old self. Could be that he is hurt, could be that he is tired. But i really dislike the way he plays. It all comes down to his inability to be a consistent three point shooter and lack of explosiveness. He is bad at making easy shots but good at making tough mid range shots. In the playoffs teams usually take away the easy stuff and give the tough mid range that Murray likes but i think its only a matter of time before the league figures him out. Maybe im wrong, but im really tired of waiting for Murray to start playing like a star.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1360 » by Richard Miller » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:55 pm

If you wanna go down that road, than probably Murray for Simmons is the only trade that (kinda) makes sense for both teams, but even then there could be difficulties.

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