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Nuggets Trades

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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1361 » by skywalker33 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:18 pm

Alatan wrote:
psimanic1 wrote:
Alatan wrote:My Murray hate is sparking up again. Should we trade him and what could we get for him? Ye, ye i know. Im not a real Nuggets fan, yada, yada, yada. Really i cant stand the way he doesnt show up in every other game and every other quarter.

Put that on Barton, two of them CANT coexist, Murray needs the ball in his hands and Barton does too, difference is Murray knows what to do with it and Barton does not


I dont know. Murray has always been like this. The bubble was the exception and now he is back to being his old self. Could be that he is hurt, could be that he is tired. But i really dislike the way he plays. It all comes down to his inability to be a consistent three point shooter and lack of explosiveness. He is bad at making easy shots but good at making tough mid range shots. In the playoffs teams usually take away the easy stuff and give the tough mid range that Murray likes but i think its only a matter of time before the league figures him out. Maybe im wrong, but im really tired of waiting for Murray to start playing like a star.


Not the bubble, the playoffs. Basketball version of Mr. October ! I agree, it does look like he's injured but he's kinda also known as a tough-guy too (although not sure how helpful that is to the teams all the time). I get the frustration as well, was hoping for some maturity to result in consistency, haven't seen it to my satisfaction either. However, it has resulted in Joker becoming "The Man", which I'm all about.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1362 » by NuggetsWY » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:07 am

Alatan wrote:My Murray hate is sparking up again. Should we trade him and what could we get for him? Ye, ye i know. Im not a real Nuggets fan, yada, yada, yada. Really i cant stand the way he doesnt show up in every other game and every other quarter.

Well, Denver has made a big deal about "untradeable". He's not playing well right now. Combine those and add in his salary, it'll be hard to get solid value for him. It'll be the same think Denver heard about Porter for the last couple of years: "Damaged goods, blah, blah, blah".

I'm wondering if Murray isn't injured in a non obvious way. He tends to try to play through everything and the Nuggets have seen Millsap, Barton, Harris all come back at less than 100% in the past couple of years.

If Murray is injured, they need to pull him and let him heal. In my opinion, he's hurting the team right now.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1363 » by Mickey8 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:32 am

Murray is playing bad, if he was hurt , he would have been sitting on the bench long time ago, no excuses .
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1364 » by skywalker33 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:52 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
Alatan wrote:My Murray hate is sparking up again. Should we trade him and what could we get for him? Ye, ye i know. Im not a real Nuggets fan, yada, yada, yada. Really i cant stand the way he doesnt show up in every other game and every other quarter.

Well, Denver has made a big deal about "untradeable". He's not playing well right now. Combine those and add in his salary, it'll be hard to get solid value for him. It'll be the same think Denver heard about Porter for the last couple of years: "Damaged goods, blah, blah, blah".

I'm wondering if Murray isn't injured in a non obvious way. He tends to try to play through everything and the Nuggets have seen Millsap, Barton, Harris all come back at less than 100% in the past couple of years.

If Murray is injured, they need to pull him and let him heal. In my opinion, he's hurting the team right now.


So who would you trade him for, what kind of value do you expect in return ?
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1365 » by NuggetsWY » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:14 am

skywalker33 wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
Alatan wrote:My Murray hate is sparking up again. Should we trade him and what could we get for him? Ye, ye i know. Im not a real Nuggets fan, yada, yada, yada. Really i cant stand the way he doesnt show up in every other game and every other quarter.

Well, Denver has made a big deal about "untradeable". He's not playing well right now. Combine those and add in his salary, it'll be hard to get solid value for him. It'll be the same think Denver heard about Porter for the last couple of years: "Damaged goods, blah, blah, blah".

I'm wondering if Murray isn't injured in a non obvious way. He tends to try to play through everything and the Nuggets have seen Millsap, Barton, Harris all come back at less than 100% in the past couple of years.

If Murray is injured, they need to pull him and let him heal. In my opinion, he's hurting the team right now.

So who would you trade him for, what kind of value do you expect in return ?

I wouldn't trade him. If he's injured, I make him sit until he's 100%. If he's not injured, I treat him the same way they've treated Harris and just let him work through whatever's going on.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1366 » by The Rebel » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:46 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:Well, Denver has made a big deal about "untradeable". He's not playing well right now. Combine those and add in his salary, it'll be hard to get solid value for him. It'll be the same think Denver heard about Porter for the last couple of years: "Damaged goods, blah, blah, blah".

I'm wondering if Murray isn't injured in a non obvious way. He tends to try to play through everything and the Nuggets have seen Millsap, Barton, Harris all come back at less than 100% in the past couple of years.

If Murray is injured, they need to pull him and let him heal. In my opinion, he's hurting the team right now.

So who would you trade him for, what kind of value do you expect in return ?

I wouldn't trade him. If he's injured, I make him sit until he's 100%. If he's not injured, I treat him the same way they've treated Harris and just let him work through whatever's going on.


for the right deal I would trade Murray. Something occurred to me the other day when I was looking at Harris's numbers and looking at Murray's numbers, for some reason the cannot seem to play well together. I think they both need the ball in their hands more, in fact I think that Murray's struggles this year come when he isn't getting the ball as much. Now the question is why? It has seemed to happen for the last several years, and if you look back when 1 of Barton or Harris was out Murray played better. When Harris willingly played of the ball the entire playoffs and BArton was out, Murray was a beast. Harris has played his best the last 2 games with Murray struggling, last season was when Murray was out and when Murray was hobbled just before the shut down. It is odd to me, but maybe they both cannot be off the ball, maybe they have to be the 2nd guy in more plays?

If you could trade Murray and Barton for Siakam and OG with a pick would either of you do it?

It gives Toronto a true number 1 to build around, they could trade Lowry for some guys to fit around Murray and picks and build around Murray. The hometown kid.

It would solve our problems at forward giving us 3 high quality forwards with MPJ, and all 3 can play together. Morris and Harris seem to be able to play well together, and it opens some possible minutes for Hampton down the road. It makes a lot of sense for us.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1367 » by The Rebel » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:31 am

Another idea for trading Murray is what if you could do a 4 team deal with the 76ers, KNicks, and Hawks?

76ers Simmons and Thybulle for Murray and Snell.

The 76ers seem to want to move Simmons and I think Murray and Embiid would be a deadly pair, especially with Harris as the 3rd option and the 3 and d guys they already have to surround them.

Atlanta trade Hunter, Collins, Huerter, Snell and 2 future 1st for Simmons and Dozier?

Atlanta gets their 2nd ball handler in Simmons who improves their defense and can play as a big in the Hawks system, which I think is more his natural position. Dozier gives them a nice bench defender that they will also need moving Hunter.

The Knicks get Barton and Thybulle for taking them into their cap room. Barton will have value as a stabilizing veteran and may get them a pick at the deadline, and Thybulle is a perimeter defender they can develop.

Denver trades Murray, Barton, and Dozier for Hunter, Collins, Huerter, and 2 future 1st round picks.

We end up with Collins who I think is a great fit at PF for MPJ and Jokic, Hunter is a good defensive swing forward that can be a huge upgrade on Dozier, and Huerter would be a great bench sniper to pair with Campazzo.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1368 » by NuggetsWY » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:57 am

The Rebel wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:So who would you trade him for, what kind of value do you expect in return ?

I wouldn't trade him. If he's injured, I make him sit until he's 100%. If he's not injured, I treat him the same way they've treated Harris and just let him work through whatever's going on.

Spoiler:
for the right deal I would trade Murray. Something occurred to me the other day when I was looking at Harris's numbers and looking at Murray's numbers, for some reason the cannot seem to play well together. I think they both need the ball in their hands more, in fact I think that Murray's struggles this year come when he isn't getting the ball as much. Now the question is why? It has seemed to happen for the last several years, and if you look back when 1 of Barton or Harris was out Murray played better. When Harris willingly played of the ball the entire playoffs and BArton was out, Murray was a beast. Harris has played his best the last 2 games with Murray struggling, last season was when Murray was out and when Murray was hobbled just before the shut down. It is odd to me, but maybe they both cannot be off the ball, maybe they have to be the 2nd guy in more plays?

If you could trade Murray and Barton for Siakam and OG with a pick would either of you do it?

It gives Toronto a true number 1 to build around, they could trade Lowry for some guys to fit around Murray and picks and build around Murray. The hometown kid.

It would solve our problems at forward giving us 3 high quality forwards with MPJ, and all 3 can play together. Morris and Harris seem to be able to play well together, and it opens some possible minutes for Hampton down the road. It makes a lot of sense for us.

I'd rather keep Harris & Murray; but you make a good point. It would be difficult to turn down Siakim & OG. The right forwards are harder to find than the right guards, simply because there are more guys 6'6" and under than 6'6" and over.

Am I mistaken or are we running fewer Jokic-Murray pick-n-rolls than we did during the playoffs?
That pick-n-roll has been effective; but then again, Jokic in the high post with players moving was effective and we don't see that as much as we did a couple of years ago. Is that because Malone likes to be in control - calling plays?
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1369 » by NuggetsWY » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:06 am

The Rebel wrote:Another idea for trading Murray is what if you could do a 4 team deal with the 76ers, KNicks, and Hawks?

76ers Simmons and Thybulle for Murray and Snell.

The 76ers seem to want to move Simmons and I think Murray and Embiid would be a deadly pair, especially with Harris as the 3rd option and the 3 and d guys they already have to surround them.

Atlanta trade Hunter, Collins, Huerter, Snell and 2 future 1st for Simmons and Dozier?

Atlanta gets their 2nd ball handler in Simmons who improves their defense and can play as a big in the Hawks system, which I think is more his natural position. Dozier gives them a nice bench defender that they will also need moving Hunter.

The Knicks get Barton and Thybulle for taking them into their cap room. Barton will have value as a stabilizing veteran and may get them a pick at the deadline, and Thybulle is a perimeter defender they can develop.

Denver trades Murray, Barton, and Dozier for Hunter, Collins, Huerter, and 2 future 1st round picks.

We end up with Collins who I think is a great fit at PF for MPJ and Jokic, Hunter is a good defensive swing forward that can be a huge upgrade on Dozier, and Huerter would be a great bench sniper to pair with Campazzo.

Less of a fan of this one, but I wouldn't be too upset. I'd prefer to keep Murray if it didn't destroy this suggestion.

Murray with Embiid would be crazy great IMO; so the Sixers ought to like it.

The Hawks might be over-paying, but Simmons would be worth it and he'd fit in their system, so they would probably like this one.

I wonder if the Knicks would get involved in this. They might hold out for a better offer of players or maybe a pick. But this seems fair and decent for them.

If the Nuggets let the Hawks keep one of those draft picks, I think this deal works out faster. Although I think the balance is equitable as presented. I'll admit, it looks good for Denver.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1370 » by The Rebel » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:32 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:I wouldn't trade him. If he's injured, I make him sit until he's 100%. If he's not injured, I treat him the same way they've treated Harris and just let him work through whatever's going on.

Spoiler:
for the right deal I would trade Murray. Something occurred to me the other day when I was looking at Harris's numbers and looking at Murray's numbers, for some reason the cannot seem to play well together. I think they both need the ball in their hands more, in fact I think that Murray's struggles this year come when he isn't getting the ball as much. Now the question is why? It has seemed to happen for the last several years, and if you look back when 1 of Barton or Harris was out Murray played better. When Harris willingly played of the ball the entire playoffs and BArton was out, Murray was a beast. Harris has played his best the last 2 games with Murray struggling, last season was when Murray was out and when Murray was hobbled just before the shut down. It is odd to me, but maybe they both cannot be off the ball, maybe they have to be the 2nd guy in more plays?

If you could trade Murray and Barton for Siakam and OG with a pick would either of you do it?

It gives Toronto a true number 1 to build around, they could trade Lowry for some guys to fit around Murray and picks and build around Murray. The hometown kid.

It would solve our problems at forward giving us 3 high quality forwards with MPJ, and all 3 can play together. Morris and Harris seem to be able to play well together, and it opens some possible minutes for Hampton down the road. It makes a lot of sense for us.

I'd rather keep Harris & Murray; but you make a good point. It would be difficult to turn down Siakim & OG. The right forwards are harder to find than the right guards, simply because there are more guys 6'6" and under than 6'6" and over.

Am I mistaken or are we running fewer Jokic-Murray pick-n-rolls than we did during the playoffs?
That pick-n-roll has been effective; but then again, Jokic in the high post with players moving was effective and we don't see that as much as we did a couple of years ago. Is that because Malone likes to be in control - calling plays?


Make no mistake, Malone was calling the Murray/Jokic pick and roll throughout the playoffs.

I also think that the guys moving off the ball has slowed down, but I think a large part of that is Murray is too covered, Barton and Millsap will only do it once or twice a game, leaving Harris as the only guy moving off ball these days.

The more I watch Murray the more I think he is built to be a number 1 scorer, he struggles when he isn't being used as at least the 2nd option. He is more effective with the ball in his hands. However between Murray and JOkic having their time with the ball in their hands there is not a lot of time for others to have the ball in their hands. They have to be basically spot up shooters, and we just do not have that type of player outside of Morris and Millsap.


Malone starts off every season calling random plays to see how it works with different guys, and with Murray and Jokic doing what they did in the playoffs I think he knows what they can do so he isn't calling those right now.

This deal allows us to establish Jokic as the 1st option, MPJ as number 2, Siakam and Harris battling for the 3rd option. It makes sense to me.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1371 » by Alatan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:50 am

The Rebel wrote:Another idea for trading Murray is what if you could do a 4 team deal with the 76ers, KNicks, and Hawks?

76ers Simmons and Thybulle for Murray and Snell.

The 76ers seem to want to move Simmons and I think Murray and Embiid would be a deadly pair, especially with Harris as the 3rd option and the 3 and d guys they already have to surround them.

Atlanta trade Hunter, Collins, Huerter, Snell and 2 future 1st for Simmons and Dozier?

Atlanta gets their 2nd ball handler in Simmons who improves their defense and can play as a big in the Hawks system, which I think is more his natural position. Dozier gives them a nice bench defender that they will also need moving Hunter.

The Knicks get Barton and Thybulle for taking them into their cap room. Barton will have value as a stabilizing veteran and may get them a pick at the deadline, and Thybulle is a perimeter defender they can develop.

Denver trades Murray, Barton, and Dozier for Hunter, Collins, Huerter, and 2 future 1st round picks.

We end up with Collins who I think is a great fit at PF for MPJ and Jokic, Hunter is a good defensive swing forward that can be a huge upgrade on Dozier, and Huerter would be a great bench sniper to pair with Campazzo.


I dont know is Collins such a great fit for us. Sure offensively he would be great but defensively i dont think he has the awareness or the length to be a good rim protector/help defender. It would amplify our weak backline and introduce one more guy that wants to shoot it.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1372 » by Alatan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:51 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:I wouldn't trade him. If he's injured, I make him sit until he's 100%. If he's not injured, I treat him the same way they've treated Harris and just let him work through whatever's going on.

Spoiler:
for the right deal I would trade Murray. Something occurred to me the other day when I was looking at Harris's numbers and looking at Murray's numbers, for some reason the cannot seem to play well together. I think they both need the ball in their hands more, in fact I think that Murray's struggles this year come when he isn't getting the ball as much. Now the question is why? It has seemed to happen for the last several years, and if you look back when 1 of Barton or Harris was out Murray played better. When Harris willingly played of the ball the entire playoffs and BArton was out, Murray was a beast. Harris has played his best the last 2 games with Murray struggling, last season was when Murray was out and when Murray was hobbled just before the shut down. It is odd to me, but maybe they both cannot be off the ball, maybe they have to be the 2nd guy in more plays?

If you could trade Murray and Barton for Siakam and OG with a pick would either of you do it?

It gives Toronto a true number 1 to build around, they could trade Lowry for some guys to fit around Murray and picks and build around Murray. The hometown kid.

It would solve our problems at forward giving us 3 high quality forwards with MPJ, and all 3 can play together. Morris and Harris seem to be able to play well together, and it opens some possible minutes for Hampton down the road. It makes a lot of sense for us.

I'd rather keep Harris & Murray; but you make a good point. It would be difficult to turn down Siakim & OG. The right forwards are harder to find than the right guards, simply because there are more guys 6'6" and under than 6'6" and over.

Am I mistaken or are we running fewer Jokic-Murray pick-n-rolls than we did during the playoffs?
That pick-n-roll has been effective; but then again, Jokic in the high post with players moving was effective and we don't see that as much as we did a couple of years ago. Is that because Malone likes to be in control - calling plays?


I dont know what Malone is doing but i want to trade him too lol. :P Seriously id love to see a fresh face as the Nuggets coach.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1373 » by The Rebel » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:36 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:
The Rebel wrote:Another idea for trading Murray is what if you could do a 4 team deal with the 76ers, KNicks, and Hawks?

76ers Simmons and Thybulle for Murray and Snell.

The 76ers seem to want to move Simmons and I think Murray and Embiid would be a deadly pair, especially with Harris as the 3rd option and the 3 and d guys they already have to surround them.

Atlanta trade Hunter, Collins, Huerter, Snell and 2 future 1st for Simmons and Dozier?

Atlanta gets their 2nd ball handler in Simmons who improves their defense and can play as a big in the Hawks system, which I think is more his natural position. Dozier gives them a nice bench defender that they will also need moving Hunter.

The Knicks get Barton and Thybulle for taking them into their cap room. Barton will have value as a stabilizing veteran and may get them a pick at the deadline, and Thybulle is a perimeter defender they can develop.

Denver trades Murray, Barton, and Dozier for Hunter, Collins, Huerter, and 2 future 1st round picks.

We end up with Collins who I think is a great fit at PF for MPJ and Jokic, Hunter is a good defensive swing forward that can be a huge upgrade on Dozier, and Huerter would be a great bench sniper to pair with Campazzo.

Less of a fan of this one, but I wouldn't be too upset. I'd prefer to keep Murray if it didn't destroy this suggestion.

Murray with Embiid would be crazy great IMO; so the Sixers ought to like it.

The Hawks might be over-paying, but Simmons would be worth it and he'd fit in their system, so they would probably like this one.

I wonder if the Knicks would get involved in this. They might hold out for a better offer of players or maybe a pick. But this seems fair and decent for them.

If the Nuggets let the Hawks keep one of those draft picks, I think this deal works out faster. Although I think the balance is equitable as presented. I'll admit, it looks good for Denver.


I am not sure I would do either deal, but both would make me think long and hard about it, and in the end I think it is dumb not to at least consider trading Murray.

I think Hunter and Collins are exactly what we need at forward and I think we have too many guards. Plus I like the future picks, Atlanta maybe overpaying but if you look at the prices that all star type of talents are going for it could be argued that they are not giving enough.

Barton and Thybulle would both be huge upgrades on the Knicks roster, and I think Barton can be flipped for a 1st at the trade deadline, so I don't know what more the KNicks would want?



Did you know in MPJs last game he put up 30 and 10 on 18 shots? That is a very efficient game, as was the 1st game of the season with 24 points on 15 shots. You know what else happened with those 2 games, Murray played terrible game 1 and was out the last MPJ game. To me he looks like a true number 1 scorer, Murray is more of a 2nd scorer on a great team or a number 1 guy on a bad team. While fully capable of being a number 1 scorer I think Jokic prefers to be the 2nd scorer, and I do not think Murray is a 3rd guy.

While we all loved what Murray did in the playoffs, the image that sticks in my mind is of all the guys we had standing at the 3 point line watching Murray score and occasionally pass the ball to Jokic. If Murray is not creating shots or shooting his own shots what other skill is he elite at? He is about average defensively, he is a below average rebounding guard, and really is not a guy who is going to do all the dirty work on a nightly basis.

Jokic is a true franchise player, i think Murray could be if he was engaged every night, and I think MPJ can develop into 1, but I don't think the 3 of them truly fit together. If we could trade Murray for a true 3rd star type, a defensive role playing SF/PF with upside, and picks than I think it makes the team better now and long term.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1374 » by The Rebel » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:50 pm

Alatan wrote:
The Rebel wrote:Another idea for trading Murray is what if you could do a 4 team deal with the 76ers, KNicks, and Hawks?

76ers Simmons and Thybulle for Murray and Snell.

The 76ers seem to want to move Simmons and I think Murray and Embiid would be a deadly pair, especially with Harris as the 3rd option and the 3 and d guys they already have to surround them.

Atlanta trade Hunter, Collins, Huerter, Snell and 2 future 1st for Simmons and Dozier?

Atlanta gets their 2nd ball handler in Simmons who improves their defense and can play as a big in the Hawks system, which I think is more his natural position. Dozier gives them a nice bench defender that they will also need moving Hunter.

The Knicks get Barton and Thybulle for taking them into their cap room. Barton will have value as a stabilizing veteran and may get them a pick at the deadline, and Thybulle is a perimeter defender they can develop.

Denver trades Murray, Barton, and Dozier for Hunter, Collins, Huerter, and 2 future 1st round picks.

We end up with Collins who I think is a great fit at PF for MPJ and Jokic, Hunter is a good defensive swing forward that can be a huge upgrade on Dozier, and Huerter would be a great bench sniper to pair with Campazzo.


I dont know is Collins such a great fit for us. Sure offensively he would be great but defensively i dont think he has the awareness or the length to be a good rim protector/help defender. It would amplify our weak backline and introduce one more guy that wants to shoot it.


I saw a tweet early in training camp that the Hawks are a team taht the Nuggets have had discussions with over the offseason. No players no other information, but if things did not go well early to watch the Hawks. So I have watched a lot of Hawks games.

Collins is a lot better defender than casuals and young fans will ever give him credit for being, because he does not block a lot of shots, but there is a reason he has been one of the best defenders for the Hawks the last 2 years. To me rim protection is one of the most overrated stats I have ever seen in any sport, the object is to not let guys get shots at the rim at all. Having to block shots is a failure of the defense.

Collins struggles defending true bigs, especially Centers, which is who the Hawks have him guarding most of the time. While he is 6'8" he is a small 6'8". He does not have the strength or long arms to guard guys who are 4 or 5 inches taller than him, and so he get destroyed by those types. However he is a very good perimeter defender against stretch 4s and big 3s, he is also a solid help defender, while he may not block many shots he does get into the lane and block drives well enough to be the best on the Nuggets at it right now.

I think MPJ actually has a lot of potential as a help defender, and if he is on the opposing team's weaker offensive forward and designated to help more our defense would improve.

Also I am not worried about Collins shots, he will get shots. His issue in Atlanta is how often Young does not even set up the offense, he just runs down and jacks up a long 3 before anybody can even get in place for the offense.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1375 » by Ball4life32 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:41 pm

The Rebel wrote:
Alatan wrote:
The Rebel wrote:Another idea for trading Murray is what if you could do a 4 team deal with the 76ers, KNicks, and Hawks?

76ers Simmons and Thybulle for Murray and Snell.

The 76ers seem to want to move Simmons and I think Murray and Embiid would be a deadly pair, especially with Harris as the 3rd option and the 3 and d guys they already have to surround them.

Atlanta trade Hunter, Collins, Huerter, Snell and 2 future 1st for Simmons and Dozier?

Atlanta gets their 2nd ball handler in Simmons who improves their defense and can play as a big in the Hawks system, which I think is more his natural position. Dozier gives them a nice bench defender that they will also need moving Hunter.

The Knicks get Barton and Thybulle for taking them into their cap room. Barton will have value as a stabilizing veteran and may get them a pick at the deadline, and Thybulle is a perimeter defender they can develop.

Denver trades Murray, Barton, and Dozier for Hunter, Collins, Huerter, and 2 future 1st round picks.

We end up with Collins who I think is a great fit at PF for MPJ and Jokic, Hunter is a good defensive swing forward that can be a huge upgrade on Dozier, and Huerter would be a great bench sniper to pair with Campazzo.


I dont know is Collins such a great fit for us. Sure offensively he would be great but defensively i dont think he has the awareness or the length to be a good rim protector/help defender. It would amplify our weak backline and introduce one more guy that wants to shoot it.


I saw a tweet early in training camp that the Hawks are a team taht the Nuggets have had discussions with over the offseason. No players no other information, but if things did not go well early to watch the Hawks. So I have watched a lot of Hawks games.

Collins is a lot better defender than casuals and young fans will ever give him credit for being, because he does not block a lot of shots, but there is a reason he has been one of the best defenders for the Hawks the last 2 years. To me rim protection is one of the most overrated stats I have ever seen in any sport, the object is to not let guys get shots at the rim at all. Having to block shots is a failure of the defense.

Collins struggles defending true bigs, especially Centers, which is who the Hawks have him guarding most of the time. While he is 6'8" he is a small 6'8". He does not have the strength or long arms to guard guys who are 4 or 5 inches taller than him, and so he get destroyed by those types. However he is a very good perimeter defender against stretch 4s and big 3s, he is also a solid help defender, while he may not block many shots he does get into the lane and block drives well enough to be the best on the Nuggets at it right now.

I think MPJ actually has a lot of potential as a help defender, and if he is on the opposing team's weaker offensive forward and designated to help more our defense would improve.

Also I am not worried about Collins shots, he will get shots. His issue in Atlanta is how often Young does not even set up the offense, he just runs down and jacks up a long 3 before anybody can even get in place for the offense.

Collins actually measured 6’9 (w/o shoes)....his shot blocking is down but he averaged 1.6 bpg last year which was top 15 in the nba. His defense has been very good so far now that he has decent defenders around him. The hawks love shooting so can’t see them giving their 3 best shooters right now not to mention addding 2 firsts for Simmons..... no way Simmons/Capela can work with the lack of shooting. Hawks don’t want to go back to last year where they were the worst shooting team in the nba % wise despite taking a lot to 3’s.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1376 » by Manolito » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:34 pm

Are you really considering moving Murray after 11 games un the season?? Really???

23 years old who has improved every single season, how to describe his bubble game. He tends to start slow, we all know that.

We need a solid PF, period. You can review your Murray trade comments at the end of this season.

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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1377 » by Timmyyy » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:44 pm

The Rebel wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:So who would you trade him for, what kind of value do you expect in return ?

I wouldn't trade him. If he's injured, I make him sit until he's 100%. If he's not injured, I treat him the same way they've treated Harris and just let him work through whatever's going on.


for the right deal I would trade Murray. Something occurred to me the other day when I was looking at Harris's numbers and looking at Murray's numbers, for some reason the cannot seem to play well together. I think they both need the ball in their hands more, in fact I think that Murray's struggles this year come when he isn't getting the ball as much. Now the question is why? It has seemed to happen for the last several years, and if you look back when 1 of Barton or Harris was out Murray played better. When Harris willingly played of the ball the entire playoffs and BArton was out, Murray was a beast. Harris has played his best the last 2 games with Murray struggling, last season was when Murray was out and when Murray was hobbled just before the shut down. It is odd to me, but maybe they both cannot be off the ball, maybe they have to be the 2nd guy in more plays?

If you could trade Murray and Barton for Siakam and OG with a pick would either of you do it?

It gives Toronto a true number 1 to build around, they could trade Lowry for some guys to fit around Murray and picks and build around Murray. The hometown kid.

It would solve our problems at forward giving us 3 high quality forwards with MPJ, and all 3 can play together. Morris and Harris seem to be able to play well together, and it opens some possible minutes for Hampton down the road. It makes a lot of sense for us.


I would do it! Morris is starter quality, Campazzo, Hampton and Dozier would be able to handle the second unit somehow and Siakam and Anunoby are the forward duo that looks like a dream come true next to Jokic.

But if Toronto really wants to go a rebuilding route I think we would have to add to that (and if they don't they won't make the trade anyway). You talked about a first but I don't think that would get it done since Barton adds nothing for a rebuilding team. Either more picks or some of the young guys. But even then I might still do it. I am just very high on the thought of upgrading our defense that much. But I am a fan of nearly all the Siakam to Denver proposals even the ones that include MPJ (I know you guys hate me now :D ), adding Anunoby on top of it is so good that I don't think there is a chance of it happening.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1378 » by Timmyyy » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:01 pm

The Rebel wrote:Another idea for trading Murray is what if you could do a 4 team deal with the 76ers, KNicks, and Hawks?

76ers Simmons and Thybulle for Murray and Snell.

The 76ers seem to want to move Simmons and I think Murray and Embiid would be a deadly pair, especially with Harris as the 3rd option and the 3 and d guys they already have to surround them.

Atlanta trade Hunter, Collins, Huerter, Snell and 2 future 1st for Simmons and Dozier?

Atlanta gets their 2nd ball handler in Simmons who improves their defense and can play as a big in the Hawks system, which I think is more his natural position. Dozier gives them a nice bench defender that they will also need moving Hunter.

The Knicks get Barton and Thybulle for taking them into their cap room. Barton will have value as a stabilizing veteran and may get them a pick at the deadline, and Thybulle is a perimeter defender they can develop.

Denver trades Murray, Barton, and Dozier for Hunter, Collins, Huerter, and 2 future 1st round picks.

We end up with Collins who I think is a great fit at PF for MPJ and Jokic, Hunter is a good defensive swing forward that can be a huge upgrade on Dozier, and Huerter would be a great bench sniper to pair with Campazzo.


Looks good for the Nuggets but for no one else in my opinion.

6ers get a better fit so maybe they could be interested in the framework.

Atlanta gives up all of their good young players for simmons who doesn't fit at all with Trae. Atlanta won't trade any of these guys except maybe Collins. Atlanta knows that Hunter is a good defensive swing forward themselves and right now he looks like their second best prospect. At some point they might add him in a package for a bigger star, but at that stage of the rebuild and for Simmons.... no way, I think.

Don't think there is an incentive for New York to do that either.

All of that is only my opinion of course.

But to the Collins talk: He definitely is a better defender than given credit for. Solid I would say. But that is not nearly enough for me to be considered a "great fit", how you worded it. Our defense would still be trash with him. Him being solid won't elevate our team defense enough to make any difference.
The big price in your trade proposal would be Hunter not Collins. And if that scenario would come true I think I might try to start Hunter at PF over Collins. But thats a lot of hypotheticals since Hunter won't be traded for now.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1379 » by Timmyyy » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:13 pm

By the way, on a general note, I am not in the camp that thinks we should be actively seeking for Murray trades. But the way he plays at the moment annoys me in a big way. No effort at all, passes up open shots and looks locked out with his body language. So I understand all the people that feel the same.

It is not his usual slow start to the season where he starts off with bad shooting and is hesitant because of it. He is actually shooting quite well, but looks as if he doesn't care.
If he is hurt and can't move quite as well I understand it, that could hold him back from going through the motions properly and might annoy him what might explain his body language.
But if he's healthy, there might be a problem. Because playing like that isn't a good sign at all. But then he would have lost a lot of credit in my book.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1380 » by skywalker33 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:05 pm

Alatan wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
Spoiler:
for the right deal I would trade Murray. Something occurred to me the other day when I was looking at Harris's numbers and looking at Murray's numbers, for some reason the cannot seem to play well together. I think they both need the ball in their hands more, in fact I think that Murray's struggles this year come when he isn't getting the ball as much. Now the question is why? It has seemed to happen for the last several years, and if you look back when 1 of Barton or Harris was out Murray played better. When Harris willingly played of the ball the entire playoffs and BArton was out, Murray was a beast. Harris has played his best the last 2 games with Murray struggling, last season was when Murray was out and when Murray was hobbled just before the shut down. It is odd to me, but maybe they both cannot be off the ball, maybe they have to be the 2nd guy in more plays?

If you could trade Murray and Barton for Siakam and OG with a pick would either of you do it?

It gives Toronto a true number 1 to build around, they could trade Lowry for some guys to fit around Murray and picks and build around Murray. The hometown kid.

It would solve our problems at forward giving us 3 high quality forwards with MPJ, and all 3 can play together. Morris and Harris seem to be able to play well together, and it opens some possible minutes for Hampton down the road. It makes a lot of sense for us.

I'd rather keep Harris & Murray; but you make a good point. It would be difficult to turn down Siakim & OG. The right forwards are harder to find than the right guards, simply because there are more guys 6'6" and under than 6'6" and over.

Am I mistaken or are we running fewer Jokic-Murray pick-n-rolls than we did during the playoffs?
That pick-n-roll has been effective; but then again, Jokic in the high post with players moving was effective and we don't see that as much as we did a couple of years ago. Is that because Malone likes to be in control - calling plays?


I dont know what Malone is doing but i want to trade him too lol. :P Seriously id love to see a fresh face as the Nuggets coach.


This just comes back to, who do you KNOW is a better coach and can you get him/her to come to Denver ?
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