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I could see our 2ways getting contract or being cut and we find some others that could replace Barton in a year if he opts in. Maybe some guys from europe, australia, who knows

Manolito wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:

The Rebel wrote:
Where are you getting your figures?

From what I can see if Barton and Green do not opt in, renounce the exceptions, and we decline the team options and cut the non-guaranteed deals than the most cap space we would have is just over $10 million in cap space. More than likely if Green and Barton opt in than we will have a little over $9 million under the luxury tax.

If Barton does not opt in and Green does opt in (which is what I expect) than we will have about $23 million under the luxury tax, with the full MLE and the Grant TPE to fill up the roster.

Rebel, here's where I got my figures, can't report to the accuracy but they seem close

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/denver-nuggets-team-salary/

I looked at the $99M and did some extrapolating based on this years Salary Cap and Luxury Tax numbers, estimating numbers will go up after the COVID year. I don't see us re-upping with Millsap or Clark, but could think about resigning McGee . Hoping Nnaji can replace Millsap's production, Dozier should be brought back, perhaps Cancar too. Whittington and Howard ( not sure I see either of these really) could fill in on minimums. This may also be the year Bol's coming out party, if he doesn't produce next year, meet next year's trade bait.

Do you know how salary cap works? These figures are correct, 99M$ if both Barton & Jamychal opt out, but as Rebel says that means around 10M$ cap space not 30MM$ as you mentioned (salary cap is set at 112M$ in 2021/22).

I am expecting Jamychal for sure to opt in, and for Barton I am not that sure he is leaving, he is already 30, had a couple of serious injuries and he is not moving the needle in a contender. I don´t see anybody offering him more than a three years contract. I guess it fully depends on his play off performance.

I don´t think Richardson is gettable with MLE and I don´t think Hardaway is what we need. Ross was a perfect fit but I guess having guaranteed money for 2022-23 season prevented FO from trading for him.

I like Reddish as a prospect but I don´t think ATL gives up so early on him. He is part of the Trae x Luka trade and getting rid of Reddish means they are accepting they screwed it big.

Yes, Mano, I DO know how the cap works and I am quite good with math, thanks for asking. While the Cap is at $112M, did you ever think we might go into the Luxury tax area ? That should be in the $140M area, which would give us around $30M potentially, surprised you didn't get that.

Funny you think Green will opt in, I get the vibe he may feel he's not being used properly as his PT may be reduced with the acquisition of Gordon and the development of Nnaji. As for Barton, most guys his age are looking for that last big contract. The question is, where will he get it ? I don't see a lot of teams lining up for his services but in this NBA, I have seen stranger deals, right?

Richardson, eh, I'm not enamoured with him, think he could be a good replacement defender for Harris, we will need more help defending the perimeter but all-in-all feels like he's having a down year in DAL, steady decline since his peak MIA days.

Reddish is more of a SF to me, can't say I know a lot about him beyond his Duke days but feel we're pretty set at SF, he could be a wing to bring in should either Green or Barton bolt.

skywalker33 wrote:

Manolito wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:
Rebel, here's where I got my figures, can't report to the accuracy but they seem close

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/denver-nuggets-team-salary/

I looked at the $99M and did some extrapolating based on this years Salary Cap and Luxury Tax numbers, estimating numbers will go up after the COVID year. I don't see us re-upping with Millsap or Clark, but could think about resigning McGee . Hoping Nnaji can replace Millsap's production, Dozier should be brought back, perhaps Cancar too. Whittington and Howard ( not sure I see either of these really) could fill in on minimums. This may also be the year Bol's coming out party, if he doesn't produce next year, meet next year's trade bait.

Do you know how salary cap works? These figures are correct, 99M$ if both Barton & Jamychal opt out, but as Rebel says that means around 10M$ cap space not 30MM$ as you mentioned (salary cap is set at 112M$ in 2021/22).

I am expecting Jamychal for sure to opt in, and for Barton I am not that sure he is leaving, he is already 30, had a couple of serious injuries and he is not moving the needle in a contender. I don´t see anybody offering him more than a three years contract. I guess it fully depends on his play off performance.

I don´t think Richardson is gettable with MLE and I don´t think Hardaway is what we need. Ross was a perfect fit but I guess having guaranteed money for 2022-23 season prevented FO from trading for him.

I like Reddish as a prospect but I don´t think ATL gives up so early on him. He is part of the Trae x Luka trade and getting rid of Reddish means they are accepting they screwed it big.

Yes, Mano, I DO know how the cap works and I am quite good with math, thanks for asking. While the Cap is at $112M, did you ever think we might go into the Luxury tax area ? That should be in the $140M area, which would give us around $30M potentially, surprised you didn't get that.

Then I am surprised as well. How do you spend up to luxury tax once you exceeded your cap room? It is only allowed using exceptions (such MLE or Grant´s TPE) or renewing own players with Bird rights. If a team exceeds salary cap, they can not offer any deal to a Free Agent.

Continuing with Barton issue, only MLE is available if he opts out and I think that market is really slim. Danny Green, Avery Bradley...good backups but not starters quality in a contender IMHO. I think Monte shall be moved to the starting lineup (ideally this season already...)

Manolito wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:

Manolito wrote:
Do you know how salary cap works? These figures are correct, 99M$ if both Barton & Jamychal opt out, but as Rebel says that means around 10M$ cap space not 30MM$ as you mentioned (salary cap is set at 112M$ in 2021/22).

I am expecting Jamychal for sure to opt in, and for Barton I am not that sure he is leaving, he is already 30, had a couple of serious injuries and he is not moving the needle in a contender. I don´t see anybody offering him more than a three years contract. I guess it fully depends on his play off performance.

I don´t think Richardson is gettable with MLE and I don´t think Hardaway is what we need. Ross was a perfect fit but I guess having guaranteed money for 2022-23 season prevented FO from trading for him.

I like Reddish as a prospect but I don´t think ATL gives up so early on him. He is part of the Trae x Luka trade and getting rid of Reddish means they are accepting they screwed it big.

Yes, Mano, I DO know how the cap works and I am quite good with math, thanks for asking. While the Cap is at $112M, did you ever think we might go into the Luxury tax area ? That should be in the $140M area, which would give us around $30M potentially, surprised you didn't get that.

Then I am surprised as well. How do you spend up to luxury tax once you exceeded your cap room? It is only allowed using exceptions (such MLE or Grant´s TPE) or renewing own players with Bird rights. If a team exceeds salary cap, they can not offer any deal to a Free Agent.

Continuing with Barton issue, only MLE is available if he opts out and I think that market is really slim. Danny Green, Avery Bradley...good backups but not starters quality in a contender IMHO. I think Monte shall be moved to the starting lineup (ideally this season already...)

Don't we have Barton's Bird right's ? We can probably use the MLE to add another player then sign Barton (if we're so inclined) using his Bird rights. And why would want to move one of the best backup PG's in the league ?

skywalker33 wrote:

Manolito wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:
Yes, Mano, I DO know how the cap works and I am quite good with math, thanks for asking. While the Cap is at $112M, did you ever think we might go into the Luxury tax area ? That should be in the $140M area, which would give us around $30M potentially, surprised you didn't get that.

Then I am surprised as well. How do you spend up to luxury tax once you exceeded your cap room? It is only allowed using exceptions (such MLE or Grant´s TPE) or renewing own players with Bird rights. If a team exceeds salary cap, they can not offer any deal to a Free Agent.

Continuing with Barton issue, only MLE is available if he opts out and I think that market is really slim. Danny Green, Avery Bradley...good backups but not starters quality in a contender IMHO. I think Monte shall be moved to the starting lineup (ideally this season already...)

Don't we have Barton's Bird right's ? We can probably use the MLE to add another player then sign Barton (if we're so inclined) using his Bird rights. And why would want to move one of the best backup PG's in the league ?

We do have Barton's Bird Rights. More importantly Barton has a player option on his current contract. In other words, the Nuggets have to make a decision on Barton if he opts out and the team will hope he opts in. If he opts out, then the Nuggets are going to be in the market for a two way shooting guard probably veteran. Bird Rights give Denver a leg up on keeping Barton but that comes at a cost and in Barton's case, significant.

They are not trading Monte Morris because he is outperforming his current contract. He will likely continue to be a bargain in the future. These are the kinds of contracts you look for when filling out a roster. The bonus is that he could start for some teams. I am surprised how much he continues to improve and those players (i.e. Hampton) you only give up when getting back a needed player.

Bottom line, Denver is headed (for a number of reasons) over the cap and my guess is that KSE has been planning for it for some time given their draft luck. Denver will have three max contracts in the near future on three players age 27 and under. They will be selling a lot of tickets for Nugget's games and they will be appearing a lot on national broadcasting. The local TV contract has to be coming to a head and I am betting KSE has a plan for that also.

skywalker3 wrote:3

Manolito wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:
Yes, Mano, I DO know how the cap works and I am quite good with math, thanks for asking. While the Cap is at $112M, did you ever think we might go into the Luxury tax area ? That should be in the $140M area, which would give us around $30M potentially, surprised you didn't get that.

Then I am surprised as well. How do you spend up to luxury tax once you exceeded your cap room? It is only allowed using exceptions (such MLE or Grant´s TPE) or renewing own players with Bird rights. If a team exceeds salary cap, they can not offer any deal to a Free Agent.

Continuing with Barton issue, only MLE is available if he opts out and I think that market is really slim. Danny Green, Avery Bradley...good backups but not starters quality in a contender IMHO. I think Monte shall be moved to the starting lineup (ideally this season already...)

Don't we have Barton's Bird right's ? We can probably use the MLE to add another player then sign Barton (if we're so inclined) using his Bird rights. And why would want to move one of the best backup PG's in the league ?

It is pretty funny because this is NOT what you said in your first comment when discussing about cap space available next summer if Barton opts in. Nevertheless, I don´t expect you to acknowledge your mistakes.

skywalker3 wrote:Think you mean is Barton opts-IN but we still should have some cap space. Even IF Barton and Green opt-in, we should have around $10-14MM to lure FA's, if Green or Barton decides to opt-out, we could have $30MM+ to find a SG and fill in the bench.

Manolito wrote:

skywalker3 wrote:3

Manolito wrote:
Then I am surprised as well. How do you spend up to luxury tax once you exceeded your cap room? It is only allowed using exceptions (such MLE or Grant´s TPE) or renewing own players with Bird rights. If a team exceeds salary cap, they can not offer any deal to a Free Agent.

Continuing with Barton issue, only MLE is available if he opts out and I think that market is really slim. Danny Green, Avery Bradley...good backups but not starters quality in a contender IMHO. I think Monte shall be moved to the starting lineup (ideally this season already...)

Don't we have Barton's Bird right's ? We can probably use the MLE to add another player then sign Barton (if we're so inclined) using his Bird rights. And why would want to move one of the best backup PG's in the league ?

It is pretty funny because this is NOT what you said in your first comment when discussing about cap space available next summer if Barton opts in. Nevertheless, I don´t expect you to acknowledge your mistakes.

skywalker3 wrote:Think you mean is Barton opts-IN but we still should have some cap space. Even IF Barton and Green opt-in, we should have around $10-14MM to lure FA's, if Green or Barton decides to opt-out, we could have $30MM+ to find a SG and fill in the bench.

So, this appears to be just a personal attack, since you added NOTHING to the conversation, was it something I said to piss you off Mano or do you like to be a Richard ? I know I'm not correct all the time, perhaps this is one of those rare times, but if that your goal, let's get it on !

I wonder if we could get Nowell and Culver from the Twolves for our 1st this year? We could take them both into the TPE and even if we had to give up Bol in the deal it would fix a lot of our bench problems.

If we lose Barton, Millsap, HOward, and McGee than we are going to have major holes to fill this summer. Getting 2 guys like Nowell and Culver allows us to move Dozier into a starting role next year (if he continues to improve his 3 point shooting and defense he will work for now at starting SG). I could see a lineup of

Morris/ Campazzo/ (Murray out until Feb)
Dozier/ Nowell/
Gordon/ Culver/ Cancar
MPJ/ Green/ Nnaji
Jokic/

The Twolves have a lot of 2/3s but they need some bigs around Towns, this gives them a pick where a few of them look to be available and talented enough to be good backups for a long time. Nowell I think is a guy who would make a good bench scorer, his defense is good enough that Malone should play him, and his shooting next to Campazzo is going to be a mandatory trait we need at backup SG. Culver can compete for minutes with Cancar to be the 10th man and play a few minutes at SF. Maybe a change of scenery and a different developmental program will help him utilize the talent that got him drafted and he can be a very good tandem with Nowell of the bench on the perimeter. This deal also leaves us with the 2 way deals to find another depth PG and a good backup C without going into the luxury tax.

The Rebel wrote:I wonder if we could get Nowell and Culver from the Twolves for our 1st this year? We could take them both into the TPE and even if we had to give up Bol in the deal it would fix a lot of our bench problems.

Tbh I haven't watched them much, but their stats seem to indicate they are both pretty bad shooters, especially Culver whose numbers are just godawful, I'd rather keep the 1st and see what TC can do with it.

I wonder what kind of contract Lonzo will get? I doubt the tpe is enough since it is less than the MLE, and we will have issues coming up with a package to pay much more, but I wouldn't mind pursuing Ball.


https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/04/22/rumor-pelicans-open-to-lonzo-ball-sign-and-trade/

The Rebel wrote:I wonder what kind of contract Lonzo will get? I doubt the tpe is enough since it is less than the MLE, and we will have issues coming up with a package to pay much more, but I wouldn't mind pursuing Ball.


https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/04/22/rumor-pelicans-open-to-lonzo-ball-sign-and-trade/

Huge contract. I really thought he was the piece Nugs should have pursued to close out trade deadline day.

I don’t think pelicans let anyone take Lonzo for anything around the 20 million per year the Nugs should love trying pay Lonzo.

Coeur wrote:

The Rebel wrote:I wonder what kind of contract Lonzo will get? I doubt the tpe is enough since it is less than the MLE, and we will have issues coming up with a package to pay much more, but I wouldn't mind pursuing Ball.


https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/04/22/rumor-pelicans-open-to-lonzo-ball-sign-and-trade/

Huge contract. I really thought he was the piece Nugs should have pursued to close out trade deadline day.

I don’t think pelicans let anyone take Lonzo for anything around the 20 million per year the Nugs should love trying pay Lonzo.

Interesting you picked that price point of $20M, didn't we just trade away a defensive guard, like Lonzo, who has shooting issues, like Lonzo who many complained was overpaid for those qualities ??

Ok, i might get some flack for this but what do you think about a Murray for Butler trade?

Murray is projected to miss almost the entire next season and who knows will he be ready for the next playoff run.
After that the money begins to be tight and our depth might take a big hit. Murays injury might also prevent him to reach that next level.

Butler is a lot older but he has a few seasons left in him. He would give us that perimeter defense alongside scoring and playmaking. Could be the next step that brings us the chip. It would also be his contract year and he will give his 200%.

If Miami flames out in free agency this offseason Butler might want out to chase a ring. They would be willing to get a young borderline allstar player that has shown glimpses of superstar potential and is locked for years to come.

Alatan wrote:Ok, i might get some flack for this but what do you think about a Murray for Butler trade?

Murray is projected to miss almost the entire next season and who knows will he be ready for the next playoff run.
After that the money begins to be tight and our depth might take a big hit. Murays injury might also prevent him to reach that next level.

Butler is a lot older but he has a few seasons left in him. He would give us that perimeter defense alongside scoring and playmaking. Could be the next step that brings us the chip. It would also be his contract year and he will give his 200%.

If Miami flames out in free agency this offseason Butler might want out to chase a ring. They would be willing to get a young borderline allstar player that has shown glimpses of superstar potential and is locked for years to come.

Butler seems happy in Miami and Miami (Pat Riley, Spoelstra, and Adebayo) seems happy with Butler, so I don't see this happen. They trying to bring the 3rd star to Butler and Adebayo for the very next season not to replace one of them and already sacrifice the 2021-22 season.

The only team I see ready to offer a fair price for ACL injured Murray is Toronto IMO because he is a local Canadian star, already the best ever after Steve Nash. For example Murray+Bol for VanVleet+Anunoby but we may regret it in 2023 or 2024 if Murray reaches bubble-Murray level again.

THE J0KER wrote:

Alatan wrote:Ok, i might get some flack for this but what do you think about a Murray for Butler trade?

Murray is projected to miss almost the entire next season and who knows will he be ready for the next playoff run.
After that the money begins to be tight and our depth might take a big hit. Murays injury might also prevent him to reach that next level.

Butler is a lot older but he has a few seasons left in him. He would give us that perimeter defense alongside scoring and playmaking. Could be the next step that brings us the chip. It would also be his contract year and he will give his 200%.

If Miami flames out in free agency this offseason Butler might want out to chase a ring. They would be willing to get a young borderline allstar player that has shown glimpses of superstar potential and is locked for years to come.

Butler seems happy in Miami and Miami (Pat Riley, Spoelstra, and Adebayo) seems happy with Butler, so I don't see this happen. They trying to bring the 3rd star to Butler and Adebayo for the very next season not to replace one of them and already sacrifice the 2021-22 season.

The only team I see ready to offer a fair price for ACL injured Murray is Toronto IMO because he is a local Canadian star, already the best ever after Steve Nash. For example Murray+Bol for VanVleet+Anunoby but we may regret it in 2023 or 2024 if Murray reaches bubble-Murray level again.

I agree that Toronto would be willing to do it but I would never do such a trade. Anunoby is nice but is not worth such a package and VV is one of the more overrated players in the league whose production is easily replicable with players on much smaller contracts.

THE J0KER wrote:

Alatan wrote:Ok, i might get some flack for this but what do you think about a Murray for Butler trade?

Murray is projected to miss almost the entire next season and who knows will he be ready for the next playoff run.
After that the money begins to be tight and our depth might take a big hit. Murays injury might also prevent him to reach that next level.

Butler is a lot older but he has a few seasons left in him. He would give us that perimeter defense alongside scoring and playmaking. Could be the next step that brings us the chip. It would also be his contract year and he will give his 200%.

If Miami flames out in free agency this offseason Butler might want out to chase a ring. They would be willing to get a young borderline allstar player that has shown glimpses of superstar potential and is locked for years to come.

Butler seems happy in Miami and Miami (Pat Riley, Spoelstra, and Adebayo) seems happy with Butler, so I don't see this happen. They trying to bring the 3rd star to Butler and Adebayo for the very next season not to replace one of them and already sacrifice the 2021-22 season.

The only team I see ready to offer a fair price for ACL injured Murray is Toronto IMO because he is a local Canadian star, already the best ever after Steve Nash. For example Murray+Bol for VanVleet+Anunoby but we may regret it in 2023 or 2024 if Murray reaches bubble-Murray level again.

Murray for Vanvleet, Boucher & 2022 FRP (lottery protected).

Vanvleet
Barton
Porter Jr.
Gordon
Jokic

Boucher - Morris - Green

jimmy keys wrote:Murray for Vanvleet, Boucher & 2022 FRP (lottery protected).

Vanvleet
Barton
Porter Jr.
Gordon
Jokic

Boucher - Morris - Green

Let's begin with: I am totally opposed to trading Jokic or Murray or Porter.

With that said, this is actually a somewhat reasonable offer. VanVleet is a short guard with similar skills to Campazzo; but I really like VanVleet's game and he plays bigger than he is. Plus his game is somewhat similar to Murray's game. Boucher wouldn't be a bad pickup for Denver because he could be Jokic's backup - although I doubt he gets many forward minutes behind Porter, Gordon, and (hopefully) Nnaji. Adding the 1st probably isn't a big deal, but it doesn't hurt.

Considering all of that, I am very opposed to Denver making this deal. Trading the best player in any deal is a recipe for disaster. Only five players on the court at the same time. Murray is the better player - but leaving my personal fandom aside, this isn't a terrible deal for Denver.

Alatan wrote:Ok, i might get some flack for this but what do you think about a Murray for Butler trade?

Murray is projected to miss almost the entire next season and who knows will he be ready for the next playoff run.
After that the money begins to be tight and our depth might take a big hit. Murays injury might also prevent him to reach that next level.

Butler is a lot older but he has a few seasons left in him. He would give us that perimeter defense alongside scoring and playmaking. Could be the next step that brings us the chip. It would also be his contract year and he will give his 200%.

If Miami flames out in free agency this offseason Butler might want out to chase a ring. They would be willing to get a young borderline allstar player that has shown glimpses of superstar potential and is locked for years to come.

this is the type of deal that kills potential dynasties. Butler is going to be 33 by the time next season starts, there is no way to know how much he has left or when he will be done. We do know that Murray has a long time left, we have a young core, no need to make a dumb move now just because people have no patience or do not like Murray for whatever reason.

jimmy keys wrote:

THE J0KER wrote:

Alatan wrote:Ok, i might get some flack for this but what do you think about a Murray for Butler trade?

Murray is projected to miss almost the entire next season and who knows will he be ready for the next playoff run.
After that the money begins to be tight and our depth might take a big hit. Murays injury might also prevent him to reach that next level.

Butler is a lot older but he has a few seasons left in him. He would give us that perimeter defense alongside scoring and playmaking. Could be the next step that brings us the chip. It would also be his contract year and he will give his 200%.

If Miami flames out in free agency this offseason Butler might want out to chase a ring. They would be willing to get a young borderline allstar player that has shown glimpses of superstar potential and is locked for years to come.

Butler seems happy in Miami and Miami (Pat Riley, Spoelstra, and Adebayo) seems happy with Butler, so I don't see this happen. They trying to bring the 3rd star to Butler and Adebayo for the very next season not to replace one of them and already sacrifice the 2021-22 season.

The only team I see ready to offer a fair price for ACL injured Murray is Toronto IMO because he is a local Canadian star, already the best ever after Steve Nash. For example Murray+Bol for VanVleet+Anunoby but we may regret it in 2023 or 2024 if Murray reaches bubble-Murray level again.

Murray for Vanvleet, Boucher & 2022 FRP (lottery protected).

Vanvleet
Barton
Porter Jr.
Gordon
Jokic

Boucher - Morris - Green

Easy pass for me, and I doubt the Nuggets even consider it.

VanVleet is a large downgrade, and all we get out of it is a protected pick and a backup big? NO thanks.

Reading this page it is sad to me how many of you guys cannot remember 8-9 months ago, when we do not make it out of game 5 against the Jazz without Murray. There is no western conference finals without him.


People want to talk about our record without Murray, but they ignore the real catalyst on why we started winning games. We have been nearly unbeatable when Millsap does not start, go look at the game logs, it goes back to before the all star break. We have the best record in the league since March 1st, and many of those games included Murray.