NuggetsWY wrote:THE J0KER wrote:Harden is a genius, but the price for him is Jokic or Murray+Porter.
The reason why only Nuggets, Celtics, Sixers, GSW, and Nets are mentioned there is not that these 5 teams showed interest to get him, but because only these 5 teams are enough stacked with high-quality assets.
As a Nuggets fan, I wouldn't trade Jokic or even younger Murray+Porter for Harden, simple because his contract expires in 2023 (in 2022 player option) and even if he stays in Denver after 2023 there is no guarantee he will be this good at 34+ years old. Jokic/Murray/MPJ Denver can control until 2025+ and no fears they will decline during prime years.
But if I was a Nuggets owner, I would think twice before rejecting an offer for Harden. For many reasons, his star-power is way bigger than Jokic and Murray together. This young team is already clearly better than Carmelo-Iverson Nuggets, but from the owner's perspective of course "dynamic duo" era is still (much) better when it comes to making money (sell tickets and jersey, TV-rights and attract sponsors).
If the Nuggets want Harden, they'll need to trade Jokic first of all. Their games just don't fit well together. I'm not saying they couldn't make it work, but like Westbrook, Jokic just won't mesh well with Harden. The Nuggets would need to keep Murray and Porter to pair with Harden because he works best with players that can spread the floor.
I just don't see this happening. The Nuggets would need a new center along with a better bench --- think lots of 3-n-D players. But that's what Houston has tried and they couldn't find a way to make it work. So I just don't know. Harden's too good to play second to anyone. It just seems like he needs elite forwards that are versatile defenders that can hit 3s. That isn't what the Nuggets have, but maybe Grant ...
I doubt Jokic would be required, even 31 year old Shaq couldn't bring back the Heat's best player. Although it would likely take MPJ and Morris with picks.
I don't want Harden for free. Guys especially stars cannot wait to get out of Houston with Harden there. Howard at the end of his prime, Melo, Paul, and Westbrook have all hated playing with Harden. The idea that Westbrook who was supposed to be his best friend in the league criticized Harden after criticizing himself and Harden had a problem with that, points to a much bigger problem. I also hated the way he openly campaigned for the MVP and talks trash publicly about Giannis winning it. The rumors about his entitled attitude and treatment of his teammates has been terrible for years, and it looks like it hasn't gotten better, I don't think he ever gets as far as he did with Paul, who put up with his **** for 2 years.
Off the top of my head Jordan seemed like the biggest **** to play with in my memory of the NBA, he actually got in fist fights with teammates, yet guys still loved to play with him. From all reports he was fine with being coached hard, even Lebron is reportedly easy to coach, same with Kobe, Magic, Shaq, and Bird from everything I have heard. Almost all of their teammates loved them. Those are guys who win championships, they may be dicks to their teammates, but they take criticism and worked harder than anybody, and teammates respected them and worked hard with them.
If you are going to go get Harden you are going to have to ditch the entire culture, Jokic, Murray, Millsap and all the other guys are self critical. They all talk about their mistakes and what they can do to get better before they talk about their teammates. Everybody is accountable to themselves and each other, Harden ruins that.
Harden also has to have 3 and d guys surrounding him, and everybody has to be comfortable playing off the ball all the time, that is not easy to do. He is like AI in Philly, when we brought him here our offense became AI and Melo taking turns, it is the same everybody that plays with Harden. That don't work in the playoffs. We trade for him and we killed what could be a dynasty, no thanks.
