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Nuggets Free Agents

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Which Free Agents do the Nuggets sign this off-season? (Choose up to ALL.)

Paul Millsap
4
10%
Mason Plumlee
6
14%
Jerami Grant
13
31%
Torrey Craig
7
17%
Noah Vonleh
3
7%
Troy Daniels
1
2%
PJ Dozier
8
19%
 
Total votes: 42

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Re: Nuggets Free Agents 

Post#21 » by skywalker33 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:24 pm

The Rebel wrote:I think you need a proven veteran backup C, I would target Baynes, Kanter, Poeltl, and Giles.


Love Baynes defense, OK with Poeltl or Giles, Kanter last on my list. Speaking of CHI, like Gafford too but hear AK does too.

The Rebel wrote:I have also been watching the goings on in Chicago, and AK keeps talking about changing the culture and player development. I know that Barton and Plumlee are both loved for the ways they helped change the culture and their overall attitudes in helping the young guys. I wonder if you can convince AK to trade for Barton and Morris (they still need a true PG) while getting back Markennen and Hutchison?

Prior to his injury this season Hutchison is actually what we hoped Craig would become, a defensive specialist who finds ways to score on offense and while streaky at shooting 3s was still better than Craig despite playing injured last season. Let him compete with Dozier for minutes at the backup SG spot and KBD at backup SF, and I think you can have a solid bench if you fix the 3rd big problem.

Markennen is likely never going to be a star, he is likely going to be a borderline starter on a very good team or a solid starter on a bad team most of his career. Have him backing up Grant and Jokic with either KBD or Bol getting minutes at the 4 or 5 depending on matchups with Dozier and Hutchison also being part of the 9 man rotation and I think you can have a very good bench.


Not a Markennen fan but you make a great case, one I could fall in love with. I love Hutchison like I do KBD, I think Hutchison has some of that fill-in starter capability as well. Morris is well thought of around the league IMO, so now may the time to move him, as I like what I see outta Dozier too. Right now I've been thinking to move him into TC's starting SG spot while Harris/Barton are out.
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Re: Nuggets Free Agents 

Post#22 » by The Rebel » Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:03 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:Bol will be a steal within two years, but I could just as easily seem him as trade bait (not wanting that but could see it happen). We could get some serious draft ROI if he's traded, his perceived value seems to be on the rise around the league right now. I like his versatility as I think he could put mins at C, PF and maybe even some SF

I can see Bol being a backup PF and C, the issue is he is not quick enough laterally to guard a lot of perimeter players and outside of blocked shots and having a long wing span does not bring a lot on defense. His shooting and passing are good, even his ability to drive, but I do not see him ever being the star so many seem to see. I think if you have another team that thinks he is a star in the making that will overpay for him in trade than you do it.

:lol: "quick enough laterally" - I don't buy into that rhetoric. They say that about Jokic too. If anything, Bol shows that he just might be better at overcoming that than Jokic. I'm not saying he's got a higher BB-IQ but he has that tremendous reach and unlike Jokic, he doesn't try to get up close. He uses that length to disrupt shots.

I don't see Bol as a star and I have no doubt the Nuggets will overpay him if they keep him. But he'd make an excellent bench player that can coming in and play center or power forward and maybe some small forward. He certainly changes the game when he comes in. Everyone is aware of his length and his ability to block their shots.


Bol is always going to have trouble keeping up with perimeter players that can drive, he has the reach advantage, but the stars all will fly right by him. He does affect a lot of jumpshooters like the Clippers, but he struggled against the Lakers. which is why I think he is going to be more of a situational guy.

Jokic has to get close to cut off the drive, our entire defense is built around the concept that the forwards opposite of the play dive to the rim and the perimeter player's guard closest to the play makes the choice whether to stay on their guy or move to the forwards guy. That is how we get around Jokic's lack of lateral quickness. Sagging off the pick and roll allows both guys to dive to the rim, and the forward's don't have a lot of time to help, effectively leaving Jokic in a 2 on one situation. The same happens to Bol for the ones who drive, the ones who try to shoot over him are in trouble because of his reach where as Jokic also cuts off the passing because of his quick hands.
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Re: Nuggets Free Agents 

Post#23 » by The Rebel » Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:16 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
The Rebel wrote:Watching the last couple of weeks and I would say that I am ready to move Morris and keep Dozier. I think we can get a good deal for Morris and someone like Barton, and I think Dozier is a better scorer and defender, both of which we need out of our backup PG.

I'd surely hate to see Morris move on. I like him much more than Dozier but Dozier is improving and would make an adequate backup even right now. Perhaps not on some teams, but Denver has plenty of "point-types". Morris would have the better trade value and combining him with Harris and/or Barton and/or a sign-n-trade and/or pick(s); we might get back someone pretty good.


Morris would make someone a good dependable pass 1st guy who can fit between the stars, the issue is that one of our stars is our starting PG. Dozier is much more of a scorer and a better defender. Our turnovers may go up a little bit but our bench has long had a problem with bogging down because we don't have that guy that can slash and create at the same time. Barton can slash but is not near the creator. I doubt Dozier is ever better than Morris, but I think for what we need long term Dozier is a good fit. With Morris being a free agent next summer, we may want to get what we can get for him.
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Re: Nuggets Free Agents 

Post#24 » by hippesthippo » Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:23 am

The Rebel wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
I can see Bol being a backup PF and C, the issue is he is not quick enough laterally to guard a lot of perimeter players and outside of blocked shots and having a long wing span does not bring a lot on defense. His shooting and passing are good, even his ability to drive, but I do not see him ever being the star so many seem to see. I think if you have another team that thinks he is a star in the making that will overpay for him in trade than you do it.

:lol: "quick enough laterally" - I don't buy into that rhetoric. They say that about Jokic too. If anything, Bol shows that he just might be better at overcoming that than Jokic. I'm not saying he's got a higher BB-IQ but he has that tremendous reach and unlike Jokic, he doesn't try to get up close. He uses that length to disrupt shots.

I don't see Bol as a star and I have no doubt the Nuggets will overpay him if they keep him. But he'd make an excellent bench player that can coming in and play center or power forward and maybe some small forward. He certainly changes the game when he comes in. Everyone is aware of his length and his ability to block their shots.


Bol is always going to have trouble keeping up with perimeter players that can drive, he has the reach advantage, but the stars all will fly right by him. He does affect a lot of jumpshooters like the Clippers, but he struggled against the Lakers. which is why I think he is going to be more of a situational guy.

Jokic has to get close to cut off the drive, our entire defense is built around the concept that the forwards opposite of the play dive to the rim and the perimeter player's guard closest to the play makes the choice whether to stay on their guy or move to the forwards guy. That is how we get around Jokic's lack of lateral quickness. Sagging off the pick and roll allows both guys to dive to the rim, and the forward's don't have a lot of time to help, effectively leaving Jokic in a 2 on one situation. The same happens to Bol for the ones who drive, the ones who try to shoot over him are in trouble because of his reach where as Jokic also cuts off the passing because of his quick hands.


Putting rim responsibility on the forwards makes a guy like Grant even more important. It seems like it would also give up quite a few open corner 3's with guys like Morris and Murray having to make those quick decisions. Harris seems like a pretty crucial piece here.

Also, maybe I'm underestimating Torrey Craig's fit.
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Re: Nuggets Free Agents 

Post#25 » by The Rebel » Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:33 am

skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:I think you need a proven veteran backup C, I would target Baynes, Kanter, Poeltl, and Giles.


Love Baynes defense, OK with Poeltl or Giles, Kanter last on my list. Speaking of CHI, like Gafford too but hear AK does too.


I don't see anyway that AK let's Gafford go, and I am not a huge Kanter guy myself, but I think he goes in that price range and would make a better option that paying the price tag that Plumlee will likely demand.

skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:I have also been watching the goings on in Chicago, and AK keeps talking about changing the culture and player development. I know that Barton and Plumlee are both loved for the ways they helped change the culture and their overall attitudes in helping the young guys. I wonder if you can convince AK to trade for Barton and Morris (they still need a true PG) while getting back Markennen and Hutchison?

Prior to his injury this season Hutchison is actually what we hoped Craig would become, a defensive specialist who finds ways to score on offense and while streaky at shooting 3s was still better than Craig despite playing injured last season. Let him compete with Dozier for minutes at the backup SG spot and KBD at backup SF, and I think you can have a solid bench if you fix the 3rd big problem.

Markennen is likely never going to be a star, he is likely going to be a borderline starter on a very good team or a solid starter on a bad team most of his career. Have him backing up Grant and Jokic with either KBD or Bol getting minutes at the 4 or 5 depending on matchups with Dozier and Hutchison also being part of the 9 man rotation and I think you can have a very good bench.


Not a Markennen fan but you make a great case, one I could fall in love with. I love Hutchison like I do KBD, I think Hutchison has some of that fill-in starter capability as well. Morris is well thought of around the league IMO, so now may the time to move him, as I like what I see outta Dozier too. Right now I've been thinking to move him into TC's starting SG spot while Harris/Barton are out.


I think Markennen is being miscast, I have thought for 2 years that many expected him to grow into a superstar while I think he just came in closer to the player he really is. I think he is more of a Bjelica type of guy. With some more focus on developing his defense and off the bench I can see him being on more of a Wilson Chandler type of level of player. A guy that can start on a bad team, but really best used off the bench.

I can see the reason to move Dozier into the starting lineup, but I think that hurts the bench too much. The entire team struggles to score when Jokic leaves the court, MPJ does well, but he needs that 2nd option to drive and kick to him. MOrris does not seem to drive as much as I would like to see lately.

Morris is a good player and a better player than Dozier, but Dozier does what we need. I think a lot of teams could use Morris, the issue is will the front office finally make some trades and who do they target?
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Re: Nuggets Free Agents 

Post#26 » by TunaFish » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:00 am

I think all eyes should be on Grant. Normally, Grant would use his player option to gain unrestricted free agency. Covid -19 might now be a factor because the league will probably lose a lot of money this year and the cap may decrease next season. That may change Grant's thinking but I still think he opts out.

Assuming he does, what contract do you think Grant is worth because that is the factor that will drive all the remaining Nuggets free agent decisions?
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Re: Nuggets Free Agents 

Post#27 » by skywalker33 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:07 am

The Rebel wrote:I can see the reason to move Dozier into the starting lineup, but I think that hurts the bench too much. The entire team struggles to score when Jokic leaves the court, MPJ does well, but he needs that 2nd option to drive and kick to him. MOrris does not seem to drive as much as I would like to see lately.

Morris is a good player and a better player than Dozier, but Dozier does what we need. I think a lot of teams could use Morris, the issue is will the front office finally make some trades and who do they target?


Moving Dozier would diminish the bench but strengthen the starting lineup, which spends 2/3 more time on the court as compared to the bench. Plus TC would also replace Dozier off the bench, where he is better suited and will replace what PJ provided with superior defense.

As for Morris, I believe he IS better than Dozier, at the PG position...for NOW. He's always in control, very low TO/ASST ration and can score some but is avg in PG size, doesn't have blazing speed, and doesn't add that extra dimension, just consistency (bet that's why Malone like him). However, he is also not as versatile and doesn't play off the ball nearly as well, whereas Dozier is more of a true combo-guard. Dozier bringing size, improving defense, and can create mismatches (he NEEDS to improve his 3-pt shooting where he clearly lacks). And honestly, I think Morris is nearing his ceiling while Dozier still has a ways to go in many facets of his game. And at this point in the game, Morris definitely has better trade value.

I don't advocate moving Dozier into the starting lineup permanently, I do appreciate his bench role just as much as you do but TC is so one dimensional as a starter, it kills me to watch him. If we get either Harris or Barton back before the playoffs, I'll be happy to relinquish this proposal.
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Re: Nuggets Free Agents 

Post#28 » by NuggetsWY » Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:17 pm

The Rebel wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
I can see Bol being a backup PF and C, the issue is he is not quick enough laterally to guard a lot of perimeter players and outside of blocked shots and having a long wing span does not bring a lot on defense. His shooting and passing are good, even his ability to drive, but I do not see him ever being the star so many seem to see. I think if you have another team that thinks he is a star in the making that will overpay for him in trade than you do it.

:lol: "quick enough laterally" - I don't buy into that rhetoric. They say that about Jokic too. If anything, Bol shows that he just might be better at overcoming that than Jokic. I'm not saying he's got a higher BB-IQ but he has that tremendous reach and unlike Jokic, he doesn't try to get up close. He uses that length to disrupt shots.

I don't see Bol as a star and I have no doubt the Nuggets will overpay him if they keep him. But he'd make an excellent bench player that can coming in and play center or power forward and maybe some small forward. He certainly changes the game when he comes in. Everyone is aware of his length and his ability to block their shots.


Bol is always going to have trouble keeping up with perimeter players that can drive, he has the reach advantage, but the stars all will fly right by him. He does affect a lot of jumpshooters like the Clippers, but he struggled against the Lakers. which is why I think he is going to be more of a situational guy.

Jokic has to get close to cut off the drive, our entire defense is built around the concept that the forwards opposite of the play dive to the rim and the perimeter player's guard closest to the play makes the choice whether to stay on their guy or move to the forwards guy. That is how we get around Jokic's lack of lateral quickness. Sagging off the pick and roll allows both guys to dive to the rim, and the forward's don't have a lot of time to help, effectively leaving Jokic in a 2 on one situation. The same happens to Bol for the ones who drive, the ones who try to shoot over him are in trouble because of his reach where as Jokic also cuts off the passing because of his quick hands.

Yuppers, I understand that. But our guys opposite from the play don't rotate very fast too often. The similar is true for Plumlee. He's more mobile, but not enough and he still needs help covering - and it doesn't always get there.

So we have three seven footers, that all need help covering for pick-n-rolls --- for different reasons.
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Re: Nuggets Free Agents 

Post#29 » by The Rebel » Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:20 pm

hippesthippo wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote: :lol: "quick enough laterally" - I don't buy into that rhetoric. They say that about Jokic too. If anything, Bol shows that he just might be better at overcoming that than Jokic. I'm not saying he's got a higher BB-IQ but he has that tremendous reach and unlike Jokic, he doesn't try to get up close. He uses that length to disrupt shots.

I don't see Bol as a star and I have no doubt the Nuggets will overpay him if they keep him. But he'd make an excellent bench player that can coming in and play center or power forward and maybe some small forward. He certainly changes the game when he comes in. Everyone is aware of his length and his ability to block their shots.


Bol is always going to have trouble keeping up with perimeter players that can drive, he has the reach advantage, but the stars all will fly right by him. He does affect a lot of jumpshooters like the Clippers, but he struggled against the Lakers. which is why I think he is going to be more of a situational guy.

Jokic has to get close to cut off the drive, our entire defense is built around the concept that the forwards opposite of the play dive to the rim and the perimeter player's guard closest to the play makes the choice whether to stay on their guy or move to the forwards guy. That is how we get around Jokic's lack of lateral quickness. Sagging off the pick and roll allows both guys to dive to the rim, and the forward's don't have a lot of time to help, effectively leaving Jokic in a 2 on one situation. The same happens to Bol for the ones who drive, the ones who try to shoot over him are in trouble because of his reach where as Jokic also cuts off the passing because of his quick hands.


Putting rim responsibility on the forwards makes a guy like Grant even more important. It seems like it would also give up quite a few open corner 3's with guys like Morris and Murray having to make those quick decisions. Harris seems like a pretty crucial piece here.

Also, maybe I'm underestimating Torrey Craig's fit.


Grant and MPJ both are pretty good shot blockers and when they make the rotations correctly our defense is actually pretty good, Millsap tries but he struggles to get there against the fast bigs these days.

There was a stat in the 2018-2019 season where the Nuggets gave up the most wide open 3 point shots in the league but were top 5 in 3 point shooting percentage allowed. Our forwards are very important in cutting off the drive, but just as important are having smart guards who recognize who the shooters are and quickly cover those shooters that are left open for the kick outs. Harris and to a lesser extent Barton both play that role well and having both of them out is a big reason our perimeter defense has struggled in the bubble.

Craig is an okay fit, he is not a great defender despite the hype he gets. Craig makes his money off of being able to annoy all star type PGs because he has the length and enough quickness to recover when guys get by him. His rotations are hit and miss and his offense is terrible most nights, so I would not put him as a great fit.
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Re: Nuggets Free Agents 

Post#30 » by The Rebel » Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:31 pm

TunaFish wrote:I think all eyes should be on Grant. Normally, Grant would use his player option to gain unrestricted free agency. Covid -19 might now be a factor because the league will probably lose a lot of money this year and the cap may decrease next season. That may change Grant's thinking but I still think he opts out.

Assuming he does, what contract do you think Grant is worth because that is the factor that will drive all the remaining Nuggets free agent decisions?


Before the lockdown I was pretty sure that Grant was going to get a contract in that $15-17 million per year range, now it is going to depend heavily on what they do about the salary cap. His play in the bubble has certainly made a strong case that he is a good starting quality 3 d type of PF.

I agree he is the key to our offseason, we need him or someone with a similar skill set at PF more than we need anything else right now.
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Re: Nuggets Free Agents 

Post#31 » by The Rebel » Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:36 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:I can see the reason to move Dozier into the starting lineup, but I think that hurts the bench too much. The entire team struggles to score when Jokic leaves the court, MPJ does well, but he needs that 2nd option to drive and kick to him. MOrris does not seem to drive as much as I would like to see lately.

Morris is a good player and a better player than Dozier, but Dozier does what we need. I think a lot of teams could use Morris, the issue is will the front office finally make some trades and who do they target?


Moving Dozier would diminish the bench but strengthen the starting lineup, which spends 2/3 more time on the court as compared to the bench. Plus TC would also replace Dozier off the bench, where he is better suited and will replace what PJ provided with superior defense.

As for Morris, I believe he IS better than Dozier, at the PG position...for NOW. He's always in control, very low TO/ASST ration and can score some but is avg in PG size, doesn't have blazing speed, and doesn't add that extra dimension, just consistency (bet that's why Malone like him). However, he is also not as versatile and doesn't play off the ball nearly as well, whereas Dozier is more of a true combo-guard. Dozier bringing size, improving defense, and can create mismatches (he NEEDS to improve his 3-pt shooting where he clearly lacks). And honestly, I think Morris is nearing his ceiling while Dozier still has a ways to go in many facets of his game. And at this point in the game, Morris definitely has better trade value.

I don't advocate moving Dozier into the starting lineup permanently, I do appreciate his bench role just as much as you do but TC is so one dimensional as a starter, it kills me to watch him. If we get either Harris or Barton back before the playoffs, I'll be happy to relinquish this proposal.


I am not sure if Morris is close to hitting his ceiling but he is at his ceiling for what he can do in his role on this team, if that makes sense? He is never going to be a dynamic scorer, but like you said he is consistent and that is what you need out of a 4th and 5th guy in a starting lineup so he is better off on another team.

I do understand what you were saying, and yes I hate TC in the starting lineup as much as anybody, but I also hate to watch the bench come in with a lead and leave down 8-10 points. That has been a common theme since we traded Beasley and Juancho, and has to end if we are going to see any success in the playoffs.
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Re: Nuggets Free Agents 

Post#32 » by Manolito » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:22 am

Jerami Grant is going to get paid....he has been third most important player in PO so far (more than MPJ), incredible 42 3P%.

His stock is raising game after game. How much would you pay him? Something around 60Mx4 would be a great deal for Denver IMHO.
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Re: Nuggets Free Agents 

Post#33 » by skywalker33 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:33 pm

I can easily see Plumlee leaving for greener pastures, his playoff play has been spotty at best. To wit, were gonna need a backup C to replace Mason. While I could see Bol getting some mins at C, I see him mostly playing at the PF position. Which brings me to an "interesting" prospect we have some connection to. Enter DeMarcus Cousins. He has experience with Malone, has the talent, and is hungry to get positive exposure within the league, preferably with a contender. Enter the Denver Nuggets. I'd bet we could use part of the MLE or BAE to pick him up. I think he'd play PF next to Jokic better than Plumlee, has grit and toughness and would bring a different look to our 2nd unit.
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