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PLAYOFF-2020 (Game#2, R1): [3]Denver Nuggets vs [6]Utah Jazz (1-0), WED/Aug19, 16:00ET

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Re: PLAYOFF-2020 (Game#2, R1): [3]Denver Nuggets vs [6]Utah Jazz (1-0), WED/Aug19, 16:00ET 

Post#21 » by The Rebel » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:31 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
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Funny, Malone's reputation is that of a defensive coach. If he can't find something to at least slow down Mitchell, he may as well retire now. So blind he didn't see this coming, just plain arrogance IMO


I wouldn't say that, I kind of feel like Denver is doing as well as it can defensively with their current personnel. Plus, it was just one game.


Sounds a bit condescending as if Mitchell is so unguardable, which I don't buy. I do agree that personnel has a lot to do with it but the scheme does as well and Malone has made absolutely no adjustments from what I've seen.

And IMO, if Murray wants to be a STAR, he can't let other players take him out of his game so "willingly" as WY said, he needs to impose it on O'Neal.


It is condescending and also flat out based on a bad theory, Craig has never done great on Mitchell, the poster has Craig confused with Harris who has a long history of frustrating Mitchell among many others. The 3 worst games Mitchell has had the last 2 years he was guarded by Harris, which is why I get so annoyed hearing how Bogdanovic and Conley are a big loss while ignoring the fact that the whole series is very different if we had Harris.
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Re: PLAYOFF-2020 (Game#2, R1): [3]Denver Nuggets vs [6]Utah Jazz (1-0), WED/Aug19, 16:00ET 

Post#22 » by skywalker33 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:31 pm

One thing seems apparent, TC is playing himself out of a contract renewal IMO. His defensive prowess seems to be overrated, at least against Mitchell (who really is a sparkplug player).
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Re: PLAYOFF-2020 (Game#2, R1): [3]Denver Nuggets vs [6]Utah Jazz (1-0), WED/Aug19, 16:00ET 

Post#23 » by NuggetsWY » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:11 pm

There are some players, that when they are hot, are absolutely unstoppable. We've all seen it. Even some bench players hit one of those streaks now and then.

There are other players that are consistently difficult to stop - most teams are happy to slow them down. I think that is the category Mitchell is in. He's got a great shot and is quite athletic. He is also in a position right now where he absolutely must assert himself and can not expect a lot of help on the offensive end.

In this game, Jokic + Murray + Porter scored 70 points. That's acceptable for sure. Our bench didn't contribute much, but it was close to adequate. Sure, we expect more scoring, but none of our bench was hot and Murray didn't assert himself. No big deal. Defense was the problem. It wasn't about stopping Mitchell or the total score. Those were fine. It was how easy Utah found it to score. They looked like they were playing against a G-league team that had never practiced together (yes, I'm exaggerating a little - but not very much).
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Re: PLAYOFF-2020 (Game#2, R1): [3]Denver Nuggets vs [6]Utah Jazz (1-0), WED/Aug19, 16:00ET 

Post#24 » by babyjax13 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:20 pm

The Rebel wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
I wouldn't say that, I kind of feel like Denver is doing as well as it can defensively with their current personnel. Plus, it was just one game.


Sounds a bit condescending as if Mitchell is so unguardable, which I don't buy. I do agree that personnel has a lot to do with it but the scheme does as well and Malone has made absolutely no adjustments from what I've seen.

And IMO, if Murray wants to be a STAR, he can't let other players take him out of his game so "willingly" as WY said, he needs to impose it on O'Neal.


It is condescending and also flat out based on a bad theory, Craig has never done great on Mitchell, the poster has Craig confused with Harris who has a long history of frustrating Mitchell among many others. The 3 worst games Mitchell has had the last 2 years he was guarded by Harris, which is why I get so annoyed hearing how Bogdanovic and Conley are a big loss while ignoring the fact that the whole series is very different if we had Harris.


Really? Condescending? Mitchell shot like 30 percent this season when matched up against Craig (listen to the Locked on Jazz series preview if you want the exact statistic). I guess I hit a soft spot by coming here to talk basketball after your team lost, but to say it's condescending to make a contribution that no one has defended him better this season (and I watch a lot of Jazz games) seems petty.
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Re: PLAYOFF-2020 (Game#2, R1): [3]Denver Nuggets vs [6]Utah Jazz (1-0), WED/Aug19, 16:00ET 

Post#25 » by The Rebel » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:35 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Sounds a bit condescending as if Mitchell is so unguardable, which I don't buy. I do agree that personnel has a lot to do with it but the scheme does as well and Malone has made absolutely no adjustments from what I've seen.

And IMO, if Murray wants to be a STAR, he can't let other players take him out of his game so "willingly" as WY said, he needs to impose it on O'Neal.


It is condescending and also flat out based on a bad theory, Craig has never done great on Mitchell, the poster has Craig confused with Harris who has a long history of frustrating Mitchell among many others. The 3 worst games Mitchell has had the last 2 years he was guarded by Harris, which is why I get so annoyed hearing how Bogdanovic and Conley are a big loss while ignoring the fact that the whole series is very different if we had Harris.


Really? Condescending? Mitchell shot like 30 percent this season when matched up against Craig (listen to the Locked on Jazz series preview if you want the exact statistic). I guess I hit a soft spot by coming here to talk basketball after your team lost, but to say it's condescending to make a contribution that no one has defended him better this season (and I watch a lot of Jazz games) seems petty.


Oh the locked on pod cast which is basically 2 former posters on these boards that try to sound like they watch every game while digging up stats, fact is that stat is wrong and anybody who actually watches the Nuggets knows it. Craig is an average defender and has not done well on Mitchell. Go actually watch the games.

As for condescending, yes it is condescending and truthfully flat out ignorant to come onto another team's board and talk trash about how your guy is not guard-able while ignoring the fact that our 2 best perimeter defenders are out.
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Re: PLAYOFF-2020 (Game#2, R1): [3]Denver Nuggets vs [6]Utah Jazz (1-0), WED/Aug19, 16:00ET 

Post#26 » by skywalker33 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:02 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Really? Condescending? Mitchell shot like 30 percent this season when matched up against Craig (listen to the Locked on Jazz series preview if you want the exact statistic). I guess I hit a soft spot by coming here to talk basketball after your team lost, but to say it's condescending to make a contribution that no one has defended him better this season (and I watch a lot of Jazz games) seems petty.


Perhaps the wording was interpreted improperly but to me, your underlined portion below comes across at how inferior we are as a team and that we don't have anybody on the team (that's not missing anyway) that can stop Super-Mitchell, which is ridiculous. While I don't want to diminish Mitchell's skills, he a very good player, the Nuggets have won with multiple players playing as a team (saw more outta that on UTH side yesterday) on BOTH sides of the ball. That didn't happen yesterday and the results show it. Malone did very little to adjust on either side of the ball and with the Nuggets getting ZERO offensive production outta Craig, his defensive efforts (if any) were displayed in his +/-. And until the route was on, Mitchell was really a non-factor by which time it appeared many of the Nuggs had concede victory, allowing Mitchell to pound the nails in the 2nd half.

babyjax13 wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:I wouldn't say that, I kind of feel like Denver is doing as well as it can defensively with their current personnel. Plus, it was just one game.
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Re: PLAYOFF-2020 (Game#2, R1): [3]Denver Nuggets vs [6]Utah Jazz (1-0), WED/Aug19, 16:00ET 

Post#27 » by babyjax13 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:20 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Really? Condescending? Mitchell shot like 30 percent this season when matched up against Craig (listen to the Locked on Jazz series preview if you want the exact statistic). I guess I hit a soft spot by coming here to talk basketball after your team lost, but to say it's condescending to make a contribution that no one has defended him better this season (and I watch a lot of Jazz games) seems petty.


Perhaps the wording was interpreted improperly but to me, your underlined portion below comes across at how inferior we are as a team and that we don't have anybody on the team (that's not missing anyway) that can stop Super-Mitchell, which is ridiculous. While I don't want to diminish Mitchell's skills, he a very good player, the Nuggets have won with multiple players playing as a team (saw more outta that on UTH side yesterday) on BOTH sides of the ball. That didn't happen yesterday and the results show it. Malone did very little to adjust on either side of the ball and with the Nuggets getting ZERO offensive production outta Craig, his defensive efforts (if any) were displayed in his +/-. And until the route was on, Mitchell was really a non-factor by which time it appeared many of the Nuggs had concede victory, allowing Mitchell to pound the nails in the 2nd half.

babyjax13 wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:


I have Denver winning in six, I just think there are ebbs and flows and Utah got really hot this game. The hard doubles for the first 2.5 quarters were a mistake, but otherwise, I think Denver's problem was that we got hot, not that they defended super poorly. The first game, only Mitchell got hot, so they were able to contain our offense. I still expect Denver to win, even with Conley returning.
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Re: PLAYOFF-2020 (Game#2, R1): [3]Denver Nuggets vs [6]Utah Jazz (1-0), WED/Aug19, 16:00ET 

Post#28 » by babyjax13 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:21 pm

The Rebel wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
It is condescending and also flat out based on a bad theory, Craig has never done great on Mitchell, the poster has Craig confused with Harris who has a long history of frustrating Mitchell among many others. The 3 worst games Mitchell has had the last 2 years he was guarded by Harris, which is why I get so annoyed hearing how Bogdanovic and Conley are a big loss while ignoring the fact that the whole series is very different if we had Harris.


Really? Condescending? Mitchell shot like 30 percent this season when matched up against Craig (listen to the Locked on Jazz series preview if you want the exact statistic). I guess I hit a soft spot by coming here to talk basketball after your team lost, but to say it's condescending to make a contribution that no one has defended him better this season (and I watch a lot of Jazz games) seems petty.


Oh the locked on pod cast which is basically 2 former posters on these boards that try to sound like they watch every game while digging up stats, fact is that stat is wrong and anybody who actually watches the Nuggets knows it. Craig is an average defender and has not done well on Mitchell. Go actually watch the games.

As for condescending, yes it is condescending and truthfully flat out ignorant to come onto another team's board and talk trash about how your guy is not guard-able while ignoring the fact that our 2 best perimeter defenders are out.


To clarify, I meant the locked on Jazz podcast, which is Utah's radio analyst. And perhaps what I said was poorly worded. I mean to say that TC has done a terrific job on Mitchell in the regular season, better than anyone we've seen. He's absolutely locked him down, so having him guard Mitchell (along with Grant) seems like the right strategy. The hard doubles this last game did not work, but his shooting will come back down to earth. I think other than that, there really has not been a major problem with Malone's schemes, and after someone drops 57, I can't really blame them for thinking that slowing down our best scorer is the recipe to win.
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Re: PLAYOFF-2020 (Game#2, R1): [3]Denver Nuggets vs [6]Utah Jazz (1-0), WED/Aug19, 16:00ET 

Post#29 » by The Rebel » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:32 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Really? Condescending? Mitchell shot like 30 percent this season when matched up against Craig (listen to the Locked on Jazz series preview if you want the exact statistic). I guess I hit a soft spot by coming here to talk basketball after your team lost, but to say it's condescending to make a contribution that no one has defended him better this season (and I watch a lot of Jazz games) seems petty.


Oh the locked on pod cast which is basically 2 former posters on these boards that try to sound like they watch every game while digging up stats, fact is that stat is wrong and anybody who actually watches the Nuggets knows it. Craig is an average defender and has not done well on Mitchell. Go actually watch the games.

As for condescending, yes it is condescending and truthfully flat out ignorant to come onto another team's board and talk trash about how your guy is not guard-able while ignoring the fact that our 2 best perimeter defenders are out.


To clarify, I meant the locked on Jazz podcast, which is Utah's radio analyst. And perhaps what I said was poorly worded. I mean to say that TC has done a terrific job on Mitchell in the regular season, better than anyone we've seen. He's absolutely locked him down, so having him guard Mitchell (along with Grant) seems like the right strategy. The hard doubles this last game did not work, but his shooting will come back down to earth. I think other than that, there really has not been a major problem with Malone's schemes, and after someone drops 57, I can't really blame them for thinking that slowing down our best scorer is the recipe to win.


I will agree that Craig has held Mitchell to 25% in the matchups, but Harris has held Mitchell to 0%. Look it up, Mitchell put up an ofer when guarded by Harris this year. Although both are very limited possessions. The previous year Harris held him to 20% shooting also in limited matchups.

Fact is Craig gives up 45.6% overall and 36.4% from 3 on defense. Harris this year gave up 40% shooting and 34% from 3, when Harris was on the court our defense net rating is 6.2 points better than it is with Craig on the court. Harris did it while guarding the opponents best perimeter scorer, Craig did it coming off the bench most nights.

Truth is Craig is not even close to the defender that Will Barton is. Our defense is 6.4 better with Barton than Craig, and Barton gives up 45.7% shooting and 33.2% from 3.

Craig is not even in the same ball park as Harris or Barton on defense and most of us that watch the Nuggets on a regular basis know it. Mitchell, Clarkson, and even Conley did not just get hot, we just have nobody that can cover them.
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Re: PLAYOFF-2020 (Game#2, R1): [3]Denver Nuggets vs [6]Utah Jazz (1-0), WED/Aug19, 16:00ET 

Post#30 » by Popovich » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:53 am

I also think Donovan can be guarded. Another common opinion which must be added is that ridiculous shooting 3pt percentage which Utah had ... is unlikely to happen again soon, this is logic , science and statistic working together.

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