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Backup center

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longtallbrad
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Backup center 

Post#1 » by longtallbrad » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:17 pm

By all accounts Denver doesn't intend to resign Plumlee. Jokic's on-court time has increased every season but I doubt he'll every be a big minutes guy. For all the speculation about how the Nuggets will replace Grant, I'm hearing next to nothing about who will back up Jokic.

I haven't heard anything about whether Vonleh will be invited back. Is the front office betting on Nnaji being able to play 16 mpg coming out of the starting gate? Bol has the length, but his game is based on finesse and speed and that game comes packaged in a 218 lb. frame. I suspect he would get eaten alive in the paint.

Marc Gasol would be perfect, but I assume he would want a bigger paycheck and more minutes than the Nuggets can spare. If Gasol goes to the Lakers, as is currently rumored, should the Nuggets make a play for Javale McGee?

I honestly think Plumlee is, at least on paper, the perfect backup to Jokic. He's a good passer, has good size, is a decent defender, rebounds well enough, doesn't seem to have aspirations of a bigger role, and shouldn't cost too much. He's been mighty serviceable during the regular season but has a reputation of crumbling in the playoffs.

What are the Nuggets' realistic options?
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Re: Backup center 

Post#2 » by skywalker33 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:59 pm

Gasol, WCS, Baynes still out there
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Re: Backup center 

Post#3 » by psimanic1 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:19 pm

Its Isaiah Hartenstein or somethinf like that. After watching his highlights, he has potential to become what we wanted from Plumlee, and play D
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Re: Backup center 

Post#4 » by longtallbrad » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:40 pm

I forgot about Cauley-Stein. Might not be a bad idea. I do think Denver desperately needs a legit big man who can play center. I don't want to see Millsap lining up unless it's an all-out small ball unit.
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Re: Backup center 

Post#5 » by Manolito » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:45 pm

TJ McBride just reported we have signed Hartenstein in a two years deal and waibed KBD.

I love this acquisition, he was killing Plumlee last season every game they played.

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Re: Backup center 

Post#6 » by Manolito » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:47 pm

Roster is completed:

Murray Monte Campazzo Hampton
Harris Dozier
MPJ Barton Cancar
Millsap Jamychal Bol Bol
Jokic Hartenstein Nnani

Two way: Howard and the guy from Turkey.

I think we will move Monte + Barton but the roster is competitive full of young guys

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Re: Backup center 

Post#7 » by TunaFish » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:57 pm

Manolito wrote:Roster is completed:

Murray Monte Campazzo Hampton
Harris Dozier
MPJ Barton Cancar
Millsap Jamychal Bol Bol
Jokic Hartenstein Nnani

Two way: Howard and the guy from Turkey.

I think we will move Monte + Barton but the roster is competitive full of young guys

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Looks good to me. Let's play some ball.
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Re: Backup center 

Post#8 » by longtallbrad » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:24 pm

psimanic1 wrote:Its Isaiah Hartenstein or somethinf like that. After watching his highlights, he has potential to become what we wanted from Plumlee, and play D


Huh. I had never heard of this guy, and looking at his minutes played I don't see any reason why I would have heard of him. Well, here's hoping he's what the team needs. Certainly has good size and scores efficiently in the rare occasions he attempts a shot.
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Re: Backup center 

Post#9 » by longtallbrad » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:25 pm

Manolito wrote:Roster is completed:

Murray Monte Campazzo Hampton
Harris Dozier
MPJ Barton Cancar
Millsap Jamychal Bol Bol
Jokic Hartenstein Nnani

Two way: Howard and the guy from Turkey.

I think we will move Monte + Barton but the roster is competitive full of young guys

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Looks promising. I don't think we have a legit starting PF at this point but the coaches can figure out how to divide minutes situationally between Millsap, Green, and Bol.
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Re: Backup center 

Post#10 » by psimanic1 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:32 pm

longtallbrad wrote:
psimanic1 wrote:Its Isaiah Hartenstein or somethinf like that. After watching his highlights, he has potential to become what we wanted from Plumlee, and play D


Huh. I had never heard of this guy, and looking at his minutes played I don't see any reason why I would have heard of him. Well, here's hoping he's what the team needs. Certainly has good size and scores efficiently in the rare occasions he attempts a shot.

I think he played nice with Capela being INJ, but with HOU going full small, he didnt get much chance, but it could be I dont remember correctly
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Re: Backup center 

Post#11 » by NuggetsWY » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:39 pm

longtallbrad wrote:Jokic's on-court time has increased every season but I doubt he'll every be a big minutes guy.

He plays at the same speed no matter how many minutes he plays in a game - or real close to it. Against Portland he played 65 minutes in a 4 OT game.

Hartenstein is not what I was thinking of when I said "veteran" backup center. He's more like a "young" backup center. On the plus side, he's not a light-weight and won't be easily pushed around. I like that. He just might be an acceptable 15 mpg center.
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Re: Backup center 

Post#12 » by The Rebel » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:25 pm

I wanted us to draft Hartenstein in his draft as a 2nd round project. He has the physical tools to be a solid stretch 5 with good defense. He never was a great fit in the Houston offense which basically used their Center to set picks and roll to the basket, and he is still working on his defense, although it is not terrible at this point. I am happy with this signing.
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Re: Backup center 

Post#13 » by skywalker33 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:34 am

The Rebel wrote:I wanted us to draft Hartenstein in his draft as a 2nd round project. He has the physical tools to be a solid stretch 5 with good defense. He never was a great fit in the Houston offense which basically used their Center to set picks and roll to the basket, and he is still working on his defense, although it is not terrible at this point. I am happy with this signing.


I saw Hartenstein as a late 1st in that draft, he was a steal in the 2nd.
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Re: Backup center 

Post#14 » by THE J0KER » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:48 am

I'm confused about what happens with our backup-C spot. But believe it or not, now is better, actually, previously we have an even worse case! Now we don't have $14M per year wasted on the backup center option which underperforming in a playoff where his playing time was reduced anyway because Jokic PT was maximized. Also, Malone used Plumlee at the end of the 1st and 3rd quarter where the team was out of the bonus, so opponents use it against us because Plumlee was one of the worst NBA FT% shooters with just about 50%. And I guess, no more these ridiculous Jokic substitutions with Plumlee at the last minute of both halves which never worked. This will also force Malone to finally use franchise star player Jokic 35+ mpg.

Also, MPJ, Millsap, and Bol Bol are good in small-ball rotations when Jokic is on the bench. I really don't know why we simply don't pay someone two-way useful, cheap, and proven like $5M N.Noel and use him as a backup center with some PF minutes, but Hartenstein never gets a real chance in Houston despite good per-minute numbers last season. I have already bigger trust in Hartenstein's potential to have a 2021 breakthrough than I have several months ago in Jarred Vanderbilt or lately in Keita Bates-Diop and Noah Vonleh. I doubt Zeke Nnaji will get many minutes this season, but he definitely seems right now like a potentially interesting option for the future.
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Re: Backup center 

Post#15 » by The Rebel » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:04 am

skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:I wanted us to draft Hartenstein in his draft as a 2nd round project. He has the physical tools to be a solid stretch 5 with good defense. He never was a great fit in the Houston offense which basically used their Center to set picks and roll to the basket, and he is still working on his defense, although it is not terrible at this point. I am happy with this signing.


I saw Hartenstein as a late 1st in that draft, he was a steal in the 2nd.


He was mock all over the place from late lotto to mid 2nd. I was pissed when Portland used the pick we traded them for Plumlee to trade ahead of us for Zach Collins who it was rumored we really liked. I wanted Collins, or to trade back and draft White and either Giles or Hartenstein as Mudiay was still our other young PG and I wanted a jump shooting shotblocking backiup C. IF I remember right you really wanted OG that year.
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Re: Backup center 

Post#16 » by stoo » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:05 am

Manolito wrote:Roster is completed:

Murray Monte Campazzo Hampton
Harris Dozier
MPJ Barton Cancar
Millsap Jamychal Bol Bol
Jokic Hartenstein Nnani

Two way: Howard and the guy from Turkey.

I think we will move Monte + Barton but the roster is competitive full of young guys



I am ok with our frontcourt. I want to watch our young guys play

I can see us swapping Barton for a bigger body defensive SF

Murray Monte Campazzo
Harris Dozier Hampton
MPJ PLAYER X Cancar -Barton gone
Millsap Jamychal Bol Bol
Jokic Hartenstein Nnani

if Monte is gone, Denver can take a little risk and go into season with Murray/Dozier/Facu as our point guards, coz you maybe want to have an experienced solid guard to cover when Murray is not playing. Jrue would be really a perfect fit

Murray Dozier Campazzo
Harris Barton Hampton
MPJ PLAYER X Cancar -Monte gone
Millsap Jamychal Bol Bol
Jokic Hartenstein Nnani
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Re: Backup center 

Post#17 » by skywalker33 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:11 am

Last two years, Malone has had a penchant for playing a Jokic-Plumlee pairing, I am more excited to see the same idea with more success using Jokic and Hartenstein. Hart can easily shoot better than Plumlee did, not even close. One more thing to like, Hartenstein is only 22yo
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Re: Backup center 

Post#18 » by The Rebel » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:12 am

THE J0KER wrote:I'm confused about what happens with our backup-C spot. But believe it or not, now is better, actually, previously we have an even worse case! Now we don't have $14M per year wasted on the backup center option which underperforming in a playoff where his playing time was reduced anyway because Jokic PT was maximized. Also, Malone used Plumlee at the end of the 1st and 3rd quarter where the team was out of the bonus, so opponents use it against us because Plumlee was one of the worst NBA FT% shooters with just about 50%. And I guess, no more these ridiculous Jokic substitutions with Plumlee at the last minute of both halves which never worked. This will also force Malone to finally use franchise star player Jokic 35+ mpg.

Also, MPJ, Millsap, and Bol Bol are good in small-ball rotations when Jokic is on the bench. I really don't know why we simply don't pay someone two-way useful, cheap, and proven like $5M N.Noel and use him as a backup center with some PF minutes, but Hartenstein never gets a real chance in Houston despite good per-minute numbers last season. I have already bigger trust in Hartenstein's potential to have a 2021 breakthrough than I have several months ago in Jarred Vanderbilt or lately in Keita Bates-Diop and Noah Vonleh. I doubt Zeke Nnaji will get many minutes this season, but he definitely seems right now like a potentially interesting option for the future.



Noel is a terrible fit in our offensive system, and the front office felt we had bigger needs. We need a Center that can hit a jumpshot for our entire offense to work, if not than the pick and roll does not work, nor does clearing the lane for a guy to iso. Last season we were 1 of the top teams in the league for points in the paint, you cannot do that with a defender in the paint constantly.

Green is a really good fit in our system, he is a good spot up shooter and is a very good defender, that can defend true PFs and Centers and does not mind the game getting physical.

Hartenstein is a solid fit in our system as he can defend bigs and shoot, so he can spot up even on a long 2 and either be open or force a defender to cover him. He can be a poor man's Brook Lopez this season, which is not a great player, but what we need to surround Jokic, Murray, and MPJ.

We are above the salary cap this year, which means we have the MLE, minimum contracts, and the BAE that we can use to sign non draft picks or our own free agents. Meaning we had a total of $13.1 million per year to sign free agents or pay the minimum. We gave $7.5 million to Green, Campazzo got the $3.6 million deal, and Hartenstein gets around $1 million, and Bol got about $900,000. That is about the only money they could spend on free agents.
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Re: Backup center 

Post#19 » by psimanic1 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:19 am

Hartenstein can actually shoot FTs? That alone is upgrade over Plumlee tbh
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Re: Backup center 

Post#20 » by skywalker33 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:44 pm

psimanic1 wrote:
longtallbrad wrote:
psimanic1 wrote:Its Isaiah Hartenstein or somethinf like that. After watching his highlights, he has potential to become what we wanted from Plumlee, and play D


Huh. I had never heard of this guy, and looking at his minutes played I don't see any reason why I would have heard of him. Well, here's hoping he's what the team needs. Certainly has good size and scores efficiently in the rare occasions he attempts a shot.

I think he played nice with Capela being INJ, but with HOU going full small, he didnt get much chance, but it could be wrong I dont remember correctly


You're exactly correct PSI
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