The Thunder Conundrum

[DaFan334]

This is an idea that I don't have as much time currently to go in depth about, but I feel is a big question for this team that should be explored a bit. The current Nuggets are extremely close to the construct of the 2012 OKC Thunder when it comes it the Stars of the team. For this conversation the following are my comparisons:
Jokic=Kevin Durant: Superstar entering his prime first and an MVP candidate
Murray=Westbrook: Similar stages in their potential career. Russell was probably more consistent but both capable of taking over.
MPJ=Harden: everyone knows they are talented scorers, but are mainly coming off the bench but the talent is undeniable.

So the conundrum the Nugs are in is the same one that the Thunder were in. Do we wait for MPJ to develop or do we move him for pieces like they did with Harden? Patients is tough but lack their of didn't work for the Thunder.

I'm on my phone at the moment and had this epiphany and would like to elaborate a little more in the near future, but let's see thoughts from here.

[The Rebel]

This is an idea that I don't have as much time currently to go in depth about, but I feel is a big question for this team that should be explored a bit. The current Nuggets are extremely close to the construct of the 2012 OKC Thunder when it comes it the Stars of the team. For this conversation the following are my comparisons:
Jokic=Kevin Durant: Superstar entering his prime first and an MVP candidate
Murray=Westbrook: Similar stages in their potential career. Russell was probably more consistent but both capable of taking over.
MPJ=Harden: everyone knows they are talented scorers, but are mainly coming off the bench but the talent is undeniable.

So the conundrum the Nugs are in is the same one that the Thunder were in. Do we wait for MPJ to develop or do we move him for pieces like they did with Harden? Patients is tough but lack their of didn't work for the Thunder.

I'm on my phone at the moment and had this epiphany and would like to elaborate a little more in the near future, but let's see thoughts from here.

The issue with Harden in OKC was not about developing, it was about money and fit. Harden and Westbrook could not play together and still get the ball to Durant enough for Durant to be effective so they brought Harden off the bench. Harden wanted paid as a starter though when his extension was coming up, and the Thunder felt they could replace Harden's production with a true 6th man type and keep their bigs in Ibaka and Perkins.

It is a very different situation than we are in. While MPJ may be moved because we need someone more developed, I have heard there are real and bigger issues going on.

I heard George Karl a few weeks ago say that there were a couple of our veterans who were being passive aggressive, a reporter I follow on twitter said that half the team felt that Barton should have been the starter coming out of camp, and I have been told by someone that knows guys around the team that the locker room is fractured. Certain players feel that the veterans like Millsap and Barton should be guaranteed minutes and some of the newcomers are not happy because they were guaranteed a chance at a starting role, which is leading to everybody being pissed off. There are reportedly also veterans that think the young rookies should not be playing at all, since Malone has always made it so tough for young guys to get minutes. I have heard that there are people bitching about Beasley never getting the opportunities that MPJ is being given, and then there is Bol who reportedly is pissed because he thinks he should be getting guaranteed minutes like Porter. In other words there are big issues going on with the team that nobody is talking about.

I have a hard time blaming Porter, to me the issue comes down to this whole continuity thing where the front office talks about being family and get permission from guys to trade them. Where guys are promised a role long term if they would just stick through the rebuild. We don't have a group of professionals, we have a team full of spoiled brats that all think they should have a voice in how the team is run and who gets what minutes. We have a group of guys that have been together for nearly 4 years and then a bunch of new guys that have joined the team in the last 2 years, and those 2 groups are having issues with each other.

The question is how do you fix it? I have been told that Barton is the ring leader of the worst issues, and Karl and the reporter both clearly insinuated the same in the reports I saw but then I am called a hater when I bring up his name. So does trading him fix it? What other players are involved and how heavily I do not know, but how many do you have to trade to fix it? Do you have to blow up the team and totally rebuild around Jokic?

I do not see how dumping a huge talent like MPJ to make guys like Barton happy is a way to build a great team. If guys are bitching that Hampton and Nnaji are getting minutes than they should be traded as well, since those 2 are the only 2 we seem to be able to depend on to bring energy and hustle off the bench nightly. To me the only guys who have earned any kind of right to bitch about their teammates is Jokic and to a much lesser extent Murray and if Murray really wants to bitch than send his ass to the Raptors and get us a starting PF.

[NuggetsWY]

What The Rebel said ... I pretty much agree

I see our problem a bit different than OKC's problem - although I see the similarities and like the comparison in the OP.

Jokic-centric with lots of pick-n-rolls and pick-n-pops with Murray. Porter & Nnaji & Harris on the wings and in the corners (or any solid 3 pt shooters). Assuming Harris gets his shot back and Porter & Nnaji improve their defense (which I'm seeing in Porter - somewhat). That's the ideal Jokic-centric offense and frankly, if our young forwards become even average defenders, they'll be a good match on the defensive end too (both active, both nearly 7' tall with wingspans just past 7'). The two of them next to Jokic ought to make a nice defensive lineup.

There have been hints that our owner will pay the tax - IF the team is a legitimate contender. Clearly we aren't there but are certainly getting close. If those are our starting five, then we just need to find the rest of the rotation - and we have several that would seem to be decent options. In other words, a little more time - say a year or two. All that without a trade or FA.

[Maf]

I heard George Karl a few weeks ago say that there were a couple of our veterans who were being passive aggressive, a reporter I follow on twitter said that half the team felt that Barton should have been the starter coming out of camp, and I have been told by someone that knows guys around the team that the locker room is fractured. Certain players feel that the veterans like Millsap and
Barton should be guaranteed minutes and some of the newcomers are not happy because they were guaranteed a chance at a starting role, which is leading to everybody being pissed off.

I call your "source" full of ****. And exactly who are supposed to be those "newcomers?" Late first round rookies being promised starting spot? Or do you mean Facu was promised to be starter with Jamal on the team? Plus, Facu's body language seems to be nothing but excited every minute on the floor. Oh wait, maybe Hartenstein was promised to replace Jokič as a starter... Only guy who might be promised to have a shot at starting spot might be Green, so no plural and he has his chance. He hasn't outplayed Millsap for this job so far so what?

I have a hard time blaming Porter

Everyone on this board does. Always making excuses for him.

We have a group of guys that have been together for nearly 4 years and then a bunch of new guys that have joined the team in the last 2 years, and those 2 groups are having issues with each other.

This might be true. The "old" crew played together, grew as a team together, as individuals too and won together. If any newcomer feels entitled it's all him to blame. In any sport team, any profession, newcomer needs to work to fit in. Not expecting everyone to fall on their asses in awe.

And, sadly, with this team we see too many wavings, bad looks and shaking heads after someone defensive lapes instead of fighting to make up for his fault.

Jokič many times mentioned how Millsap was huge for him in terms of teaching him leadership and being the man of the team. So, in fact it very well might him who you call spoiled brat who should be traded...

The question is how do you fix it? I have been told that Barton is the ring leader of the worst issues, and Karl and the reporter both clearly insinuated the same in the reports I saw but then I am called a hater when I bring up his name. So does trading him fix it?

So having our leaders and veterans believing Barton should be starter makes him the worst guy. Ok. Trading him surely fix everything. Given that with him in starting line up 15-13 Nuggets are 13-8, without 2-5. With MPJ starting Nuggets are 4-7.

I am it's clear, right? Starting MPJ and trading Barton will make this team succesful.

[NuggetsWY]

Spoiler:

I heard George Karl a few weeks ago say that there were a couple of our veterans who were being passive aggressive, a reporter I follow on twitter said that half the team felt that Barton should have been the starter coming out of camp, and I have been told by someone that knows guys around the team that the locker room is fractured. Certain players feel that the veterans like Millsap and
Barton should be guaranteed minutes and some of the newcomers are not happy because they were guaranteed a chance at a starting role, which is leading to everybody being pissed off.

I call your "source" full of ****. And exactly who are supposed to be those "newcomers?" Late first round rookies being promised starting spot? Or do you mean Facu was promised to be starter with Jamal on the team? Plus, Facu's body language seems to be nothing but excited every minute on the floor. Oh wait, maybe Hartenstein was promised to replace Jokič as a starter... Only guy who might be promised to have a shot at starting spot might be Green, so no plural and he has his chance. He hasn't outplayed Millsap for this job so far so what?

I have a hard time blaming Porter

Everyone on this board does. Always making excuses for him.

We have a group of guys that have been together for nearly 4 years and then a bunch of new guys that have joined the team in the last 2 years, and those 2 groups are having issues with each other.

This might be true. The "old" crew played together, grew as a team together, as individuals too and won together. If any newcomer feels entitled it's all him to blame. In any sport team, any profession, newcomer needs to work to fit in. Not expecting everyone to fall on their asses in awe.

And, sadly, with this team we see too many wavings, bad looks and shaking heads after someone defensive lapes instead of fighting to make up for his fault.

Jokič many times mentioned how Millsap was huge for him in terms of teaching him leadership and being the man of the team. So, in fact it very well might him who you call spoiled brat who should be traded...

The question is how do you fix it? I have been told that Barton is the ring leader of the worst issues, and Karl and the reporter both clearly insinuated the same in the reports I saw but then I am called a hater when I bring up his name. So does trading him fix it?

So having our leaders and veterans believing Barton should be starter makes him the worst guy. Ok. Trading him surely fix everything. Given that with him in starting line up 15-13 Nuggets are 13-8, without 2-5. With MPJ starting Nuggets are 4-7.

I am it's clear, right? Starting MPJ and trading Barton will make this team succesful.

I have never agreed with Malone's rotations, but I do acknowledge he has been successful. I will still maintain that he needs to play certain young players more than he does, so they can develop. Some coaches are very successful at using young players more than Malone does, some coaches perhaps not as good.

Playing the younger players can cost us wins, especially early in the season and in particular this season is perhaps the worst year in the last 50 years or so for playing younger players.

As I look at this team, I do not know if it can go as far as last year's team, but I'm also not sure it can't. If I am considering being a contender next year, I like our future.

Jokic - Hartenstein
Nnaji - Green (If Nnaji develops as I hope)
Porter
Hampton - Harris (If Hampton develops as I hope)
Murray - Morris

Campazzo has really impressed me, but I do not see him as valuable as coach seems to see him
Dozier seems like a good deep bench player - with potential for more
Bol leaves me wondering
Howard seems like a deep bench player
Whittington is an unknown
Millsap seems likely to retire
Barton makes a nice bench player, but wants to start - he deserves a chance to play elsewhere
Cancar is still an unknown and if coach isn't going to use him, trade him or release him, he's been a good team member from what I can see and deserves to be given an opportunity somewhere

[Maf]

Spoiler:

I heard George Karl a few weeks ago say that there were a couple of our veterans who were being passive aggressive, a reporter I follow on twitter said that half the team felt that Barton should have been the starter coming out of camp, and I have been told by someone that knows guys around the team that the locker room is fractured. Certain players feel that the veterans like Millsap and
Barton should be guaranteed minutes and some of the newcomers are not happy because they were guaranteed a chance at a starting role, which is leading to everybody being pissed off.

I call your "source" full of ****. And exactly who are supposed to be those "newcomers?" Late first round rookies being promised starting spot? Or do you mean Facu was promised to be starter with Jamal on the team? Plus, Facu's body language seems to be nothing but excited every minute on the floor. Oh wait, maybe Hartenstein was promised to replace Jokič as a starter... Only guy who might be promised to have a shot at starting spot might be Green, so no plural and he has his chance. He hasn't outplayed Millsap for this job so far so what?

I have a hard time blaming Porter

Everyone on this board does. Always making excuses for him.

We have a group of guys that have been together for nearly 4 years and then a bunch of new guys that have joined the team in the last 2 years, and those 2 groups are having issues with each other.

This might be true. The "old" crew played together, grew as a team together, as individuals too and won together. If any newcomer feels entitled it's all him to blame. In any sport team, any profession, newcomer needs to work to fit in. Not expecting everyone to fall on their asses in awe.

And, sadly, with this team we see too many wavings, bad looks and shaking heads after someone defensive lapes instead of fighting to make up for his fault.

Jokič many times mentioned how Millsap was huge for him in terms of teaching him leadership and being the man of the team. So, in fact it very well might him who you call spoiled brat who should be traded...

The question is how do you fix it? I have been told that Barton is the ring leader of the worst issues, and Karl and the reporter both clearly insinuated the same in the reports I saw but then I am called a hater when I bring up his name. So does trading him fix it?

So having our leaders and veterans believing Barton should be starter makes him the worst guy. Ok. Trading him surely fix everything. Given that with him in starting line up 15-13 Nuggets are 13-8, without 2-5. With MPJ starting Nuggets are 4-7.

I am it's clear, right? Starting MPJ and trading Barton will make this team succesful.

I have never agreed with Malone's rotations, but I do acknowledge he has been successful. I will still maintain that he needs to play certain young players more than he does, so they can develop. Some coaches are very successful at using young players more than Malone does, some coaches perhaps not as good.

Playing the younger players can cost us wins, especially early in the season and in particular this season is perhaps the worst year in the last 50 years or so for playing younger players.

As I look at this team, I do not know if it can go as far as last year's team, but I'm also not sure it can't. If I am considering being a contender next year, I like our future.

Jokic - Hartenstein
Nnaji - Green (If Nnaji develops as I hope)
Porter
Hampton - Harris (If Hampton develops as I hope)
Murray - Morris

Campazzo has really impressed me, but I do not see him as valuable as coach seems to see him
Dozier seems like a good deep bench player - with potential for more
Bol leaves me wondering
Howard seems like a deep bench player
Whittington is an unknown
Millsap seems likely to retire
Barton makes a nice bench player, but wants to start - he deserves a chance to play elsewhere
Cancar is still an unknown and if coach isn't going to use him, trade him or release him, he's been a good team member from what I can see and deserves to be given an opportunity somewhere

I agree it is fun to watch rookies, having hopes how good they could become. But I will not blast coach for staying firm with they need to deserve it first. And if they don't do what they are told to do then sit them. Bol Bol is the best example. After last game he played I'd be totally fine if he never saw the floor in Nuggets uniform again. I don't doubt Nnaji and Hampton will continue to get minutes. They show desire to play. On the other side, I can see why situation with MPJ could gone wrong. I love his beautiful shooting stroke too. But I also see his faults. Careless passing is one of them. He doesn't put any strength in it. I am sorry I don't know the right word to describe it, the ball doesn't explode, more like floats towards guy he is passing to. And it makes player who catches the ball to leave position where he should receive it because defender goes for it and our player needs to get there first. Defense is another thing. MPJ with his length is really good at contesting shots. I mean really really good. And he is even decent defender WHEN HE FINALLY LOCATES HIS MAN. But he again and again screws rotations, isn't aware of back cuts, gets stucked on watching ballhander etc. How could anyone want our coach to go to our veterans, look them in the eye and say: "Hey, I know he constantly doesn't do what he is supposed to. He doesn't learn anything. He probably doesn't even care about anything but shooting. But he will start because he is young."

[NuggetsWY]

Spoiler:

I call your "source" full of ****. And exactly who are supposed to be those "newcomers?" Late first round rookies being promised starting spot? Or do you mean Facu was promised to be starter with Jamal on the team? Plus, Facu's body language seems to be nothing but excited every minute on the floor. Oh wait, maybe Hartenstein was promised to replace Jokič as a starter... Only guy who might be promised to have a shot at starting spot might be Green, so no plural and he has his chance. He hasn't outplayed Millsap for this job so far so what?

Everyone on this board does. Always making excuses for him.

This might be true. The "old" crew played together, grew as a team together, as individuals too and won together. If any newcomer feels entitled it's all him to blame. In any sport team, any profession, newcomer needs to work to fit in. Not expecting everyone to fall on their asses in awe.

And, sadly, with this team we see too many wavings, bad looks and shaking heads after someone defensive lapes instead of fighting to make up for his fault.

Jokič many times mentioned how Millsap was huge for him in terms of teaching him leadership and being the man of the team. So, in fact it very well might him who you call spoiled brat who should be traded...

So having our leaders and veterans believing Barton should be starter makes him the worst guy. Ok. Trading him surely fix everything. Given that with him in starting line up 15-13 Nuggets are 13-8, without 2-5. With MPJ starting Nuggets are 4-7.

I am it's clear, right? Starting MPJ and trading Barton will make this team succesful.

I have never agreed with Malone's rotations, but I do acknowledge he has been successful. I will still maintain that he needs to play certain young players more than he does, so they can develop. Some coaches are very successful at using young players more than Malone does, some coaches perhaps not as good.

Playing the younger players can cost us wins, especially early in the season and in particular this season is perhaps the worst year in the last 50 years or so for playing younger players.

As I look at this team, I do not know if it can go as far as last year's team, but I'm also not sure it can't. If I am considering being a contender next year, I like our future.

Jokic - Hartenstein
Nnaji - Green (If Nnaji develops as I hope)
Porter
Hampton - Harris (If Hampton develops as I hope)
Murray - Morris

Campazzo has really impressed me, but I do not see him as valuable as coach seems to see him
Dozier seems like a good deep bench player - with potential for more
Bol leaves me wondering
Howard seems like a deep bench player
Whittington is an unknown
Millsap seems likely to retire
Barton makes a nice bench player, but wants to start - he deserves a chance to play elsewhere
Cancar is still an unknown and if coach isn't going to use him, trade him or release him, he's been a good team member from what I can see and deserves to be given an opportunity somewhere

I agree it is fun to watch rookies, having hopes how good they could become. But I will not blast coach for staying firm with they need to deserve it first. And if they don't do what they are told to do then sit them. Bol Bol is the best example. After last game he played I'd be totally fine if he never saw the floor in Nuggets uniform again. I don't doubt Nnaji and Hampton will continue to get minutes. They show desire to play. On the other side, I can see why situation with MPJ could gone wrong. I love his beautiful shooting stroke too. But I also see his faults. Careless passing is one of them. He doesn't put any strength in it. I am sorry I don't know the right word to describe it, the ball doesn't explode, more like floats towards guy he is passing to. And it makes player who catches the ball to leave position where he should receive it because defender goes for it and our player needs to get there first. Defense is another thing. MPJ with his length is really good at contesting shots. I mean really really good. And he is even decent defender WHEN HE FINALLY LOCATES HIS MAN. But he again and again screws rotations, isn't aware of back cuts, gets stucked on watching ballhander etc. How could anyone want our coach to go to our veterans, look them in the eye and say: "Hey, I know he constantly doesn't do what he is supposed to. He doesn't learn anything. He probably doesn't even care about anything but shooting. But he will start because he is young."

Can't and won't argue with any of that.

I see Porter trying on defense and hustling, but sometimes he makes the wrong choice. I go back and forth on wanting Porter to start and it isn't because of him. (I'm wishing we had another SF.) What I really would like is to see Barton coming off the bench. His play this year seems to fit better with Jokic, but I think Barton would be ideal coming off the bench. With his skill against more bench players, I think he could really help us.

Your point is even more valid when you consider how coach has used Campazzo. I like him better than I thought I would, but I don't see him as necessary --- even though he contributes quite a bit. We have plenty of guards. Coach plays him a lot even though he's a rookie, but with his vast experience, he should not be treated like a rookie.

Right now Nnaji is getting minutes because our front office built a guard heavy team and with injuries, our young forwards have to play. That may be increasing Porter's minutes as well. Add in another Harris injury and coach is playing Hampton more than I expected. I'll give coach credit, he's juggling an unbalanced roster this year.

[Richard Miller]

Not sure why they haven't sent anyone to G league yet, Bol is barely playing, Howard could sure use some minutes to get his shot falling, maybe Hart too if they don't want to give him minutes, Čančar as well etc

[NuggetsWY]

Not sure why they haven't sent anyone to G league yet, Bol is barely playing, Howard could sure use some minutes to get his shot falling, maybe Hart too if they don't want to give him minutes, Čančar as well etc

Malone seems to like to have his guys practice with the team. If they are on a two-way, that's limited but this year might be different

[DaFan334]

Not sure why they haven't sent anyone to G league yet, Bol is barely playing, Howard could sure use some minutes to get his shot falling, maybe Hart too if they don't want to give him minutes, Čančar as well etc

Malone seems to like to have his guys practice with the team. If they are on a two-way, that's limited but this year might be different

I also am not sure how the G League situation works this year, but I don't know that we can since we don't have an affiliate with the setup this year with Covid. I might be wrong about that though. We also will finally have a team next year it looks like.

[skywalker33]

Not sure why they haven't sent anyone to G league yet, Bol is barely playing, Howard could sure use some minutes to get his shot falling, maybe Hart too if they don't want to give him minutes, Čančar as well etc

Malone seems to like to have his guys practice with the team. If they are on a two-way, that's limited but this year might be different

When we loaned players to other G-league teams, they played the schemes of the NBA teams that owned those G-League teams. With us owning one (I'll believe it when I see it), we'll be able to practice/play within a scheme similar to our own.

I know, BRILLIANT, right ??

[NuggetsWY]

Not sure why they haven't sent anyone to G league yet, Bol is barely playing, Howard could sure use some minutes to get his shot falling, maybe Hart too if they don't want to give him minutes, Čančar as well etc

Malone seems to like to have his guys practice with the team. If they are on a two-way, that's limited but this year might be different

When we loaned players to other G-league teams, they played the schemes of the NBA teams that owned those G-League teams. With us owning one (I'll believe it when I see it), we'll be able to practice/play within a scheme similar to our own.

I know, BRILLIANT, right ??

I've been griping about this since they started letting NBA teams own G-League teams. It just makes sense that it would help your players develop faster - for all the reasons mentioned above.

Toronto has their G-League team in a Toronto suburb. Guys from the NBA team and the G-League team can go from one team to the other in the same day (talking practice here, not games obviously).

I'm betting the Nuggets have their G-League team in Vancouver, Canada or Mexico City, Mexico

[The Rebel]

I heard George Karl a few weeks ago say that there were a couple of our veterans who were being passive aggressive, a reporter I follow on twitter said that half the team felt that Barton should have been the starter coming out of camp, and I have been told by someone that knows guys around the team that the locker room is fractured. Certain players feel that the veterans like Millsap and
Barton should be guaranteed minutes and some of the newcomers are not happy because they were guaranteed a chance at a starting role, which is leading to everybody being pissed off.

I call your "source" full of ****. And exactly who are supposed to be those "newcomers?" Late first round rookies being promised starting spot? Or do you mean Facu was promised to be starter with Jamal on the team? Plus, Facu's body language seems to be nothing but excited every minute on the floor. Oh wait, maybe Hartenstein was promised to replace Jokič as a starter... Only guy who might be promised to have a shot at starting spot might be Green, so no plural and he has his chance. He hasn't outplayed Millsap for this job so far so what?

I personally do not care if you believe my source, coach Karl, or news reporters, why would you? That would mean that your boy is a problem and we all know you cannot take his dick out of your mouth long enough to think about that.

I have a hard time blaming Porter

Everyone on this board does. Always making excuses for him.

That is ironic considering the way you stan and cover for Barton.

We have a group of guys that have been together for nearly 4 years and then a bunch of new guys that have joined the team in the last 2 years, and those 2 groups are having issues with each other.

This might be true. The "old" crew played together, grew as a team together, as individuals too and won together. If any newcomer feels entitled it's all him to blame. In any sport team, any profession, newcomer needs to work to fit in. Not expecting everyone to fall on their asses in awe.

And, sadly, with this team we see too many wavings, bad looks and shaking heads after someone defensive lapes instead of fighting to make up for his fault.

Jokič many times mentioned how Millsap was huge for him in terms of teaching him leadership and being the man of the team. So, in fact it very well might him who you call spoiled brat who should be traded...

Or maybe we should all remember that it took a lot of time for the old crew to get their **** together and learn the offensive and defensive system, and they had supportive veterans instead of veterans pissing and moaning? It was not that long ago that Harris was one of the worst rookies I had ever seen get minutes, that Barton was buried on the Trailblazers bench, that some were begging to dump Murray, and Morris was playing a total of 3 minutes his rookie year. The idea that any of them should be giving dirty looks to anybody for a blown play is laughable, this entire team seems to have a huge ego problem and most of them have done nothing to deserve it.

The question is how do you fix it? I have been told that Barton is the ring leader of the worst issues, and Karl and the reporter both clearly insinuated the same in the reports I saw but then I am called a hater when I bring up his name. So does trading him fix it?

So having our leaders and veterans believing Barton should be starter makes him the worst guy. Ok. Trading him surely fix everything. Given that with him in starting line up 15-13 Nuggets are 13-8, without 2-5. With MPJ starting Nuggets are 4-7.

I am it's clear, right? Starting MPJ and trading Barton will make this team succesful.

I love how you ignore the other lineup changes, sure Barton would make the difference when we are missing Harris and Millsap. The fact that it is even a discussion between a guy who missed 2 full seasons of basketball and has not yet played 82 games and our supposed starter who is in the prime of his career should tell you all you need to know about who should be starting. We could also look at advanced stats, but then most of them say that Barton should not even be in the rotation.

Keeping Barton has made this team super successful, I mean I am sure we would have made the conference finals with him choosing to go iso and jacking up terrible shot after terrible shot in all those games we came back to win. His panicking has led to so many wins. The sad part is a rookie replaced his production in the playoffs last year, and yet you cannot accept that. Barton is an overrated bum that thinks he is a star and should be placed firmly on the bench until we can sucker someone into taking him.

[Maf]

Love how instead of explaining who are those PLAYERS who were promised starting spots by your "source" you were capable of just very low and stupid personal attack.

[skywalker33]

Love how instead of explaining who are those PLAYERS who were promised starting spots by your "source" you were capable of just very low and stupid personal attack.

By the same token, sounds your ire at Rebels “sources” was where your contempt came from...

[U hova]

damn Rebel...

[NuggetsWY]

From my experience, The Rebel tends to have better sources than anyone else on this board - at least for Nuggets info.

[slicedbread2]

Wow. I can see the parallels here.

To me, the Nuggets made some great moves, but eventually they were gonna have to make some tough decisions and they should've made them sooner. Here's my take on some of it:

1) Jerami Grant. I don't know why they didn't start him as a 3. In OKC, they used him as a 4, but eventually realized that he was best used as a 3 and the only reason they gave him up was to try and lighten their luxury tax bill. We don't know what the Nuggets truly offered him, but I think they should've pushed the envelop and given him a bigger deal let's say a 4/80-96M deal with a P/O. I would've offered this deal if he made it known he wanted to be a starter and i would've consolidated some role players for future assets/better fits. We saw the Suns do this with Kelly Oubre Jr. once they saw how successful Cam Johnson and Bridges played without him plus they got a great leader in CP3. Barton should've been moved and a team like NOLA would've been perfect as they could've nabbed JJ Redick and a 1st+2nd or Cleveland and Washington's 2nds as he'd be the perfect 2 guard next to Lonzo. Either way Barton should've been moved in order to allow Grant a bigger role as Barton feels he's too good to be a 6th man whereas Grant showed glimpses in Denver that he deserved to have plays run for him whenever Jokic or Murray were on the bench.

2) The moves at last year's deadline. I'll admit Beasley should've gotten more minutes and Malone made some questionable moves, but in light of his off-court behaviour whether it was fighting an NFL player in a Denver hotel lobby or pleading guilty to a felony in Minnesota for a loaded gun, the Nuggets made the right move to move him along with Juancho. Wish they could've kept Vanderbilt but oh well. I really think they missed an opportunity to try and move these guys in a trade package for an upgrade as there's only so much playing time to go around.

3) Backup centre. I'll admit Plumlee was frustrating at times as he was a liability at the FT line and he was useless outside the paint, but I think the Nuggets should've given him a 2/16M deal similar to what the Pistons gave him as they are screwed when Jokic goes to the bench. Dude is an underrated passer/ball handler for his size and could keep the general flow of the team going for 15-20 minutes as they really are hurting. He'd be the perfect stopgap until they found another option at the draft or through FA/trade.

4) Team construction. They overloaded on too many guards and have very few bigs over 6'6. This is a problem when the regulars go to the bench. Millsap is getting up there in age and he may most likely be heading to retirement soon. The Nuggets seem to prefer to build within which is great, but it's pretty pathetic that they don't even have a G-league team. They could just build one in say Colorado Springs and give players that aren't playing time in the G-league some seasoning. The Raptors have done a fantastic job at this and a lot of the players on their title run and current roster have played there and even won a title in the g-league. Getting playing time to stay in shape is important and it's not helpful when a young rookie who's lucky to get 5 mins in garbage time isn't playing much.

5) Malone not playing young guys more. Hampton and Nnaji look interesting as quite frankly they could be potential stalwarts in the Nuggets future. Nnaji needs to build up that frame, but I think he'll be okay and Hampton is a prep to pro player who went to New Zealand to play before this year. He should be giving these guys some burn while the veterans are injured/out to see what he has in them. With Bol Bol I thought there would be hope but I wouldn't be surprised if he was let go. I don't understand why they gave him a 2 way contract instead of giving him a standard 2nd round contract as he was the 42nd pick and the Nuggets would have him for 4 years of team control.

I think things could work out in the end, but it seems like the team plays like one that's fractured and you can see it on the court at times which is a bad sign.

[skywalker33]

Not bad analysis but most are obvious to our fanbase. The only point I can really disagree with is Plumlee, he wore out his welcome here, not a bad dude but not a playoff contributor

[The Rebel]

Love how instead of explaining who are those PLAYERS who were promised starting spots by your "source" you were capable of just very low and stupid personal attack.

You are right, I apologize for the attack.

As for which players were promised what, I do not have specifics, but was told that several players were promised roles at the end of last season and several were promised roles when they signed/re-signed with us last offseason. Some were even promised the exact same role as others. Which is a coaching and front office problem that creates big problems in the locker rooms.