Nuggets 2021 Off Season

[NuggetsWY]

Off Season Questions - or at least a couple of them

Will Mr. Barton exercise his option?

Millsap & McGee have been Jokic's backup - will either be brought back?

Lots of guards on the roster. Will any of: Rivers, Dozier, Harrison, Howard be brought back?

*** If no changes are made and none of the above come back ...

Jokic - Bol
Porter - Nnaji
Gordon - Green - Cancar
Morris
Murray (IR) - Campazzo

[skywalker33]

Off Season Questions - or at least a couple of them

Will Mr. Barton exercise his option?

Millsap & McGee have been Jokic's backup - will either be brought back?

Lots of guards on the roster. Will any of: Rivers, Dozier, Harrison, Howard be brought back?

*** If no changes are made and none of the above come back ...

Jokic - Bol
Porter - Nnaji
Gordon - Green - Cancar
Morris
Murray (IR) - Campazzo

Man, this could/should be a whole thread of it's own.

I'm betting Barton is being told he'll be the 6th man if he wants to re-sign, will his ego allow him to ?? Unfortunately, I think he realizes with Murray out he may get that starting opportunity before he hits free agency next year and he'll have the opportunity to up his value and opts in.

Not sure about Millsap coming back, guess at a VERY discounted price and it feels like McGee will get better opportunities as Malone almost REFUSED to play him, be very surprised if he's back although I think he could be a decent asset if Malone figures a way to use him.

Out of the guards listed, I'm really only IN on Dozier. The others had their moment but none consistently stepped up when needed. I liked Howard's offense but he's the same size as Campazzo, does that make him a liability/redundant even though he's more of a scorer? Harrison is more defensive-minded, which we need but again he never stood out IMO. Rivers is living off his reputation, has had some good moments, disappeared at times so he can have some bench time but we may not have enough mins to make it worth signing him IMO. I also can see a scenario where we draft a first-round SG, so we need to be prudent on where our mins are divided out.

Very much like to see Nnaji start to get some mins next season, I liked what I saw of him this season, he's has potential to be a player on the rise IMO.
Also, I can easily see us trying to trade Bol for a pick as he doesn't get any PT nor what Malone wants out of him.

[The Rebel]

Off Season Questions - or at least a couple of them

Will Mr. Barton exercise his option?

Millsap & McGee have been Jokic's backup - will either be brought back?

Lots of guards on the roster. Will any of: Rivers, Dozier, Harrison, Howard be brought back?

*** If no changes are made and none of the above come back ...

Jokic - Bol
Porter - Nnaji
Gordon - Green - Cancar
Morris
Murray (IR) - Campazzo

Half way listening to a Barton interview postgame last night and hearing Adam Mares on Altitude radio today I don't think Barton is coming back. Mares said that Barton made the comment that the fans booed him, and he didn't want to be here. I think Barton loved being Will the Thrill that was the hard working 2nd round pick that everybody loved, but once Jokic came onboard he could never be that guy, so I think he will leave, and I think he will get a solid contract to do it.

Millsap is done, for everybody's sake I hope he retires. I think the front office would like to bring back Javalle, but I doubt he wants to come back. He got buried on the bench while we were getting destroyed by perimeter players getting to the rim against Millsap and Green, yet Malone would not play him. Why come back?

I believe Dozier has a contract already for next year, he signed a multi-year deal before this season, but the only way I see him gone is as part of a big deal.

I think Harrison and Howard will both be back on 2 way deals. Howard has to get better on defense, and if Harrison figures out how to get the ball in the basket someway he would make a good backup SG with his defense.

Rivers I am not sure about, I can see him being a useful 4th guard for us next year with Dozier sliding over to SF, but I would prefer a much better scorer.


I think there are going to be some big changes over the offseason. The only ones I am sure will be back are Jokic and Murray, I am 90% sure MPj will be back, 75% on Morris, Nnaji, Harrison, and Howard being back, but 50% or less on the rest of the roster.

Right now I think the projected lineup is going to be
Morris/ Campazzo/ Howard (2 way) (Murray)
Dozier/ / Harrison (2 way)
Gordon/
MPJ/ NNaji/ Cancar
Jokic/


We desperately need another defender that can shoot a little and a scorer at the backup 2 and 3. We also desperately need a backup Center that Malone will use.

[skywalker33]

Right now I think the projected lineup is going to be
Morris/ Campazzo/ Howard (2 way) (Murray)
Dozier/ / Harrison (2 way)
Gordon/
MPJ/ NNaji/ Cancar
Jokic/


We desperately need another defender that can shoot a little and a scorer at the backup 2 and 3. We also desperately need a backup Center that Malone will use.

I agree with this, for the most part. Do question if Morris will start at PG, I thought he requested to come off the bench but the need for him to start is there. As for the backup SG, still betting that's where we use our 1st rounder whether by trade or selection.

[The Rebel]

Right now I think the projected lineup is going to be
Morris/ Campazzo/ Howard (2 way) (Murray)
Dozier/ / Harrison (2 way)
Gordon/
MPJ/ NNaji/ Cancar
Jokic/


We desperately need another defender that can shoot a little and a scorer at the backup 2 and 3. We also desperately need a backup Center that Malone will use.

I agree with this, for the most part. Do question if Morris will start at PG, I thought he requested to come off the bench but the need for him to start is there. As for the backup SG, still betting that's where we use our 1st rounder whether by trade or selection.

Morris requested to come off the bench when it was obvious that our bench needed someone to score and run the offense.

I don't think the front office is going to depend on whoever they draft to work out immediately. they have a long history of avoiding that type of pick.

I think the fall back plan is we are going to use free agency and the TPE to get someone to start at SG and move Dozier off the bench. I think we will use one of them to get a SG and one to get a bench scorer that plays at SG/SF. They will likely get a bench center for the minimum.

I look at this roster and I do not see the pieces to get a true star, fact is I don't see a way to add a very good starter in a trade without creating another hole. Our TPE isn't enough to really get a good starter unless they are on a rookie deal and then they will cost a premium. Our depth went from amazing 2 years ago to total **** now and they are going to have to come up with a way to fix the issues. We have to draft a 2/3 but I think they draft a guy they think is at least a year away to start rebuilding the depth.

I do wonder about the injury exception. Officially it requires a player to be projected to miss the rest of the season, but due to when the injury occurred he may not miss the rest of the season. I think we should get it because it seems to take a full 18 months for guys to come back anywhere near their former level, but it will come down to the NBA doctors. We can add a 1 year contract for just under $15.8 million, but it can only be the final year of the players deal. There are a lot of guys on expiring deals out there that make between $9-15 million next year.

[skywalker33]

I don't think the front office is going to depend on whoever they draft to work out immediately. they have a long history of avoiding that type of pick.

While I agree with the history, RJ Hampton is a prime example of re-evaluating this premise. While being held back in DEN, he averaged only 2.6ppg/2rpg/1.6apg, unleashed in ORL he blossomed to score 11.6ppg/5rpg/2.8apg, very eye-open change perhaps the Nuggets should consider as this is an even better draft than last year's . His rookie PER36 is pretty impressive IMO

I think the fall back plan is we are going to use free agency and the TPE to get someone to start at SG and move Dozier off the bench. I think we will use one of them to get a SG and one to get a bench scorer that plays at SG/SF. They will likely get a bench center for the minimum.

Confused on this a bit, if they use free agency/TPE to find a starting SG, where are they moving Dozier into the starting lineup, at PG ? I thought Morris was going to start at PG until Murray comes back

I look at this roster and I do not see the pieces to get a true star, fact is I don't see a way to add a very good starter in a trade without creating another hole. Our TPE isn't enough to really get a good starter unless they are on a rookie deal and then they will cost a premium. Our depth went from amazing 2 years ago to total **** now and they are going to have to come up with a way to fix the issues. We have to draft a 2/3 but I think they draft a guy they think is at least a year away to start rebuilding the depth.

I agree we don't have enough assets to trade for a quality starter and it's obvious Rivers nor Dozier seem strong enough to man the SG position but both (at least PJ looks good at SF/SG) can add quality depth to the bench IMO. So in my world, letting a talented rookie SG (they do have a good eye for talent and this appears to be a good draft), I see it as an opportunity to develop a SG whether for the starting lineup or a scorer who eventually off the bench. And IMO, SG is the easiest position to step into the NBA to play readily.

I do wonder about the injury exception. Officially it requires a player to be projected to miss the rest of the season, but due to when the injury occurred he may not miss the rest of the season. I think we should get it because it seems to take a full 18 months for guys to come back anywhere near their former level, but it will come down to the NBA doctors. We can add a 1 year contract for just under $15.8 million, but it can only be the final year of the players deal. There are a lot of guys on expiring deals out there that make between $9-15 million next year.

I'm hoping we can get this exception too, most teams would be considered by the league but on an individual basis. DEN is starting to get some respect around the league, perhaps it will reflect in their decision. I'm obviously not as versed in the CBA as you, but it does give me hope, we'll see what it brings.

[NuggetsWY]

Spoiler:

I don't think the front office is going to depend on whoever they draft to work out immediately. they have a long history of avoiding that type of pick.

While I agree with the history, RJ Hampton is a prime example of re-evaluating this premise. While being held back in DEN, he averaged only 2.6ppg/2rpg/1.6apg, unleashed in ORL he blossomed to score 11.6ppg/5rpg/2.8apg, very eye-open change perhaps the Nuggets should consider as this is an even better draft than last year's . His rookie PER36 is pretty impressive IMO

I think the fall back plan is we are going to use free agency and the TPE to get someone to start at SG and move Dozier off the bench. I think we will use one of them to get a SG and one to get a bench scorer that plays at SG/SF. They will likely get a bench center for the minimum.

Confused on this a bit, if they use free agency/TPE to find a starting SG, where are they moving Dozier into the starting lineup, at PG ? I thought Morris was going to start at PG until Murray comes back

I look at this roster and I do not see the pieces to get a true star, fact is I don't see a way to add a very good starter in a trade without creating another hole. Our TPE isn't enough to really get a good starter unless they are on a rookie deal and then they will cost a premium. Our depth went from amazing 2 years ago to total **** now and they are going to have to come up with a way to fix the issues. We have to draft a 2/3 but I think they draft a guy they think is at least a year away to start rebuilding the depth.

I agree we don't have enough assets to trade for a quality starter and it's obvious Rivers nor Dozier seem strong enough to man the SG position but both (at least PJ looks good at SF/SG) can add quality depth to the bench IMO. So in my world, letting a talented rookie SG (they do have a good eye for talent and this appears to be a good draft), I see it as an opportunity to develop a SG whether for the starting lineup or a scorer who eventually off the bench. And IMO, SG is the easiest position to step into the NBA to play readily.

I do wonder about the injury exception. Officially it requires a player to be projected to miss the rest of the season, but due to when the injury occurred he may not miss the rest of the season. I think we should get it because it seems to take a full 18 months for guys to come back anywhere near their former level, but it will come down to the NBA doctors. We can add a 1 year contract for just under $15.8 million, but it can only be the final year of the players deal. There are a lot of guys on expiring deals out there that make between $9-15 million next year.

I'm hoping we can get this exception too, most teams would be considered by the league but on an individual basis. DEN is starting to get some respect around the league, perhaps it will reflect in their decision. I'm obviously not as versed in the CBA as you, but it does give me hope, we'll see what it brings.

Even if the front office wants to draft a SG as a starter, I don't see Malone willing to start a rookie - at least not one drafted outside the top-10 or so.

I agree it would be difficult to trade for a top SG without including one of our other four starters. However, I just don't believe we need an elite SG. A veteran willing to take a 1+1 would be doable. Including Barton in a sign-n-trade adding some picks and other players is an option. Let's see how creative the front office can get.

[The Rebel]

I don't think the front office is going to depend on whoever they draft to work out immediately. they have a long history of avoiding that type of pick.

While I agree with the history, RJ Hampton is a prime example of re-evaluating this premise. While being held back in DEN, he averaged only 2.6ppg/2rpg/1.6apg, unleashed in ORL he blossomed to score 11.6ppg/5rpg/2.8apg, very eye-open change perhaps the Nuggets should consider as this is an even better draft than last year's . His rookie PER36 is pretty impressive IMO

Better draft or not no contender should be depending on a late 1st draft pick before he has even played a game. We cannot throw away half the season waiting for Murray if we are going to make the playoffs next year, and while Hampton has done amazing he is not playing on a winning team. We both know teams give less of an effort against tanking teams, that is how they win occasionally.

I think the fall back plan is we are going to use free agency and the TPE to get someone to start at SG and move Dozier off the bench. I think we will use one of them to get a SG and one to get a bench scorer that plays at SG/SF. They will likely get a bench center for the minimum.

Confused on this a bit, if they use free agency/TPE to find a starting SG, where are they moving Dozier into the starting lineup, at PG ? I thought Morris was going to start at PG until Murray comes back

Dozier started 6 games at SG and was the starter there when Barton went out. He is a good bench guy, but with Barton going to opt out, Murray injured, and no Harris there is basically nobody else left who can start at SG making him the defacto starter.

I look at this roster and I do not see the pieces to get a true star, fact is I don't see a way to add a very good starter in a trade without creating another hole. Our TPE isn't enough to really get a good starter unless they are on a rookie deal and then they will cost a premium. Our depth went from amazing 2 years ago to total **** now and they are going to have to come up with a way to fix the issues. We have to draft a 2/3 but I think they draft a guy they think is at least a year away to start rebuilding the depth.

I agree we don't have enough assets to trade for a quality starter and it's obvious Rivers nor Dozier seem strong enough to man the SG position but both (at least PJ looks good at SF/SG) can add quality depth to the bench IMO. So in my world, letting a talented rookie SG (they do have a good eye for talent and this appears to be a good draft), I see it as an opportunity to develop a SG whether for the starting lineup or a scorer who eventually off the bench. And IMO, SG is the easiest position to step into the NBA to play readily.

It may be the easiest to transition to in the NBA, but it seems to be the hardest slot for teams to fill. Either way it doesn't matter, no team that wants to be a contender is going to depend on a rookie. The SGs that are good still seem to take the 2-3 years it takes every other position to become good all around players. Fact is Jokic has 2 years left on his deal, a year from now we have to extend MPJ, Murray is already on a max deal, we have no starting SG and no depth and a team that was still likely 2nd favorites to come out of the western conference. Now is not the time to be developing a late 1st as a starter. If we had 2 quality guys there than no problem, but without a starting SG this team is not going anywhere, and it makes no sense to be throwing away the 2-3 years it takes to develop a SG.

I do wonder about the injury exception. Officially it requires a player to be projected to miss the rest of the season, but due to when the injury occurred he may not miss the rest of the season. I think we should get it because it seems to take a full 18 months for guys to come back anywhere near their former level, but it will come down to the NBA doctors. We can add a 1 year contract for just under $15.8 million, but it can only be the final year of the players deal. There are a lot of guys on expiring deals out there that make between $9-15 million next year.

I'm hoping we can get this exception too, most teams would be considered by the league but on an individual basis. DEN is starting to get some respect around the league, perhaps it will reflect in their decision. I'm obviously not as versed in the CBA as you, but it does give me hope, we'll see what it brings.

While the NBA would let some teams slide, the Nuggets do not seem to be one of them, or they would have tried to fix the reffing problem we have all seen for 2 years. Don't forget Kiki is a high ranking NBA executive, and I am sure he still is pretty bitter towards the Kroenkes.

By the rules it will come down to Murray's medical reports, NBA historical tracking of recovery time based on surgery date and current recovery records, trainers and surgeons progress reports, and then the Dr's projection based on everything with Murray. Fact is most guys try to come back in about 9-12 months after the surgery, if the Drs determine it can take 12 months than that is likely just after the end of the season which qualifies. If they determine the 9 months, than that puts us in late January.

[longtallbrad]

Players I'd like to see return: McGee (if Malone will play him), Barton (if he can make peace with a sixth man role once Murray returns), Dozier (he may indeed be a starter by default and he shows some promise on defense), and Harrison (if he spends the offseason working on his shooting).

I'm not sure Denver can pull off another Gordon-like trade for next season without creating a significant hole somewhere in the roster. I think Denver's fortunes rest on developing players already in-house (including Porter's defense) and getting Murray back in time for a run for decent playoff positioning.

[skywalker33]

Better draft or not no contender should be depending on a late 1st draft pick before he has even played a game. We cannot throw away half the season waiting for Murray if we are going to make the playoffs next year, and while Hampton has done amazing he is not playing on a winning team. We both know teams give less of an effort against tanking teams, that is how they win occasionally.

Well, sometimes circumstances dictate what you can and can't do, it's not like there are a plethora of talented SG's we can pluck from free agency with the limited resources available. And yes, Hampton is playing for a losing team but his talent is blossoming, just because Malone is hesitant to play rookies doesn't mean they can't contribute on a decent scale. Many of us were high on him, including yourself so it's hard to discount a player, even selected in the mid-20's can produce.

Dozier started 6 games at SG and was the starter there when Barton went out. He is a good bench guy, but with Barton going to opt out, Murray injured, and no Harris there is basically nobody else left who can start at SG making him the defacto starter.

Currently on this team that is. And given his talent level and experience, he does seem to be the most viable option, but as you point out "de facto". Don't get me wrong, I like Dozier but he was undrafted and still developing, why couldn't we do the same with an expected "more talented player" ?

It may be the easiest to transition to in the NBA, but it seems to be the hardest slot for teams to fill. Either way it doesn't matter, no team that wants to be a contender is going to depend on a rookie. The SGs that are good still seem to take the 2-3 years it takes every other position to become good all around players. Fact is Jokic has 2 years left on his deal, a year from now we have to extend MPJ, Murray is already on a max deal, we have no starting SG and no depth and a team that was still likely 2nd favorites to come out of the western conference. Now is not the time to be developing a late 1st as a starter. If we had 2 quality guys there than no problem, but without a starting SG this team is not going anywhere, and it makes no sense to be throwing away the 2-3 years it takes to develop a SG.

Guess it's a matter of opinion, but in our circumstances, I'd rather have potentially a talented rookie who could bring game than an inconsistent journeyman like Rivers to try and convince myself we're better off. Regardless where Joker's contract is, we're in this mess for the next 9-18mos, I see doing it with a retread doing nothing for the future of this organization and we should have enough veteran talent to help support a rookie grow confidently. Will there be growing pains ?? Sure but we are still developing another asset than just paying for a journeyman's retirement plan.

[The Rebel]

Better draft or not no contender should be depending on a late 1st draft pick before he has even played a game. We cannot throw away half the season waiting for Murray if we are going to make the playoffs next year, and while Hampton has done amazing he is not playing on a winning team. We both know teams give less of an effort against tanking teams, that is how they win occasionally.

Well, sometimes circumstances dictate what you can and can't do, it's not like there are a plethora of talented SG's we can pluck from free agency with the limited resources available. And yes, Hampton is playing for a losing team but his talent is blossoming, just because Malone is hesitant to play rookies doesn't mean they can't contribute on a decent scale. Many of us were high on him, including yourself so it's hard to discount a player, even selected in the mid-20's can produce.

You keep bringing up Hampton, let's talk about Hampton. He was the projected 3rd overall pick less than 2 years ago, he went to Australia and got injured just as his game was adjusting. Then Covid hit and he came home. He didn't get any real workouts, any face to face interviews, and had less than a college season worth of games against grown men for scouts to see. Even still he was a project lotto pick, and the Magic reportedly had him as 1b against Cole Anthony and reportedly choose Cole because of his PG skills. Truth is a lot of the reason Hampton fell was because of Mudiay who was in a similar position. Who is the Hampton this year?

Over the last 7 years we have drafted Harris who feel because he was an undersized SG at the end of the old era. Nurkic, who feel because of attitude. Mudiay who fell because he can't play basketball. Murray who was projected as a top 3 pick but teams reportedly decided he was too much of a project. Beasley, MPJ, and Bol who fell because of injury, Morris who fell because he couldn't shoot, Nnaji who fell because he was considerably better in college than HIgh School, and Hampton who fell because his resume looked to much like Mudiay.


We have drafted Lydon, Mudiay, Welsh, Nurkic and Lauvergne based on immediate need, and the only one even in the league is Nurkic.

We draft well when Connelly and the scouts just look for the best available talent, we draft terribly every time they go out looking for someone to fill an immediate role, the guy that drops is our specialty, so which top 5 talent is dropping to the Nuggets this year? The last thing we can afford to do is draft a Lydon or Mudiay again.

Dozier started 6 games at SG and was the starter there when Barton went out. He is a good bench guy, but with Barton going to opt out, Murray injured, and no Harris there is basically nobody else left who can start at SG making him the defacto starter.

Currently on this team that is. And given his talent level and experience, he does seem to be the most viable option, but as you point out "de facto". Don't get me wrong, I like Dozier but he was undrafted and still developing, why couldn't we do the same with an expected "more talented player" ?

Because there is no guarantee that any of the guys drafted past 25 will even be starter quality, and truth is more than half of the guys drafted that late never get a 2nd contract in the league. I know people's perception gets screwed up watching the Nuggets these days and everybody knows guys like Jokic are rare, but guys like Barton, Morris, Hampton, are very rare as well.

Guys drop to the 25th pick for a reason, sometimes it is injury, sometimes it is circumstances, sometimes it is size, but there is a big enough issue that 24 teams choose someone else. I prefer someone who drops because they have a short term injury or are a late bloomer, that is what has a long history of working for us.

It may be the easiest to transition to in the NBA, but it seems to be the hardest slot for teams to fill. Either way it doesn't matter, no team that wants to be a contender is going to depend on a rookie. The SGs that are good still seem to take the 2-3 years it takes every other position to become good all around players. Fact is Jokic has 2 years left on his deal, a year from now we have to extend MPJ, Murray is already on a max deal, we have no starting SG and no depth and a team that was still likely 2nd favorites to come out of the western conference. Now is not the time to be developing a late 1st as a starter. If we had 2 quality guys there than no problem, but without a starting SG this team is not going anywhere, and it makes no sense to be throwing away the 2-3 years it takes to develop a SG.

Guess it's a matter of opinion, but in our circumstances, I'd rather have potentially a talented rookie who could bring game than an inconsistent journeyman like Rivers to try and convince myself we're better off. Regardless where Joker's contract is, we're in this mess for the next 9-18mos, I see doing it with a retread doing nothing for the future of this organization and we should have enough veteran talent to help support a rookie grow confidently. Will there be growing pains ?? Sure but we are still developing another asset than just paying for a journeyman's retirement plan.

What kind of future do we have if we draft another Mudiay? What kind of future would we have with another Lydon? What about another Bol? The Nuggets are the top drafting team in the league, but we are not even close to be guaranteed of getting a lotto pick quality player at a position of need drafting 25th. Go through some of the drafts, in a lot of them you will figure out that 1 or 2 players drafted 25th or later ever develop into a starter. Nobody is throwing away of Jokic's career for a 1 in 35 chance at even getting a guy comparable to the guys you can sign or trade for. Free agency is how you fill the needs around your stars, the draft is for higher upside guys.

[TunaFish]

Better draft or not no contender should be depending on a late 1st draft pick before he has even played a game. We cannot throw away half the season waiting for Murray if we are going to make the playoffs next year, and while Hampton has done amazing he is not playing on a winning team. We both know teams give less of an effort against tanking teams, that is how they win occasionally.

Well, sometimes circumstances dictate what you can and can't do, it's not like there are a plethora of talented SG's we can pluck from free agency with the limited resources available. And yes, Hampton is playing for a losing team but his talent is blossoming, just because Malone is hesitant to play rookies doesn't mean they can't contribute on a decent scale. Many of us were high on him, including yourself so it's hard to discount a player, even selected in the mid-20's can produce.

You keep bringing up Hampton, let's talk about Hampton. He was the projected 3rd overall pick less than 2 years ago, he went to Australia and got injured just as his game was adjusting. Then Covid hit and he came home. He didn't get any real workouts, any face to face interviews, and had less than a college season worth of games against grown men for scouts to see. Even still he was a project lotto pick, and the Magic reportedly had him as 1b against Cole Anthony and reportedly choose Cole because of his PG skills. Truth is a lot of the reason Hampton fell was because of Mudiay who was in a similar position. Who is the Hampton this year?

Over the last 7 years we have drafted Harris who feel because he was an undersized SG at the end of the old era. Nurkic, who feel because of attitude. Mudiay who fell because he can't play basketball. Murray who was projected as a top 3 pick but teams reportedly decided he was too much of a project. Beasley, MPJ, and Bol who fell because of injury, Morris who fell because he couldn't shoot, Nnaji who fell because he was considerably better in college than HIgh School, and Hampton who fell because his resume looked to much like Mudiay.


We have drafted Lydon, Mudiay, Welsh, Nurkic and Lauvergne based on immediate need, and the only one even in the league is Nurkic.

We draft well when Connelly and the scouts just look for the best available talent, we draft terribly every time they go out looking for someone to fill an immediate role, the guy that drops is our specialty, so which top 5 talent is dropping to the Nuggets this year? The last thing we can afford to do is draft a Lydon or Mudiay again.

Dozier started 6 games at SG and was the starter there when Barton went out. He is a good bench guy, but with Barton going to opt out, Murray injured, and no Harris there is basically nobody else left who can start at SG making him the defacto starter.

Currently on this team that is. And given his talent level and experience, he does seem to be the most viable option, but as you point out "de facto". Don't get me wrong, I like Dozier but he was undrafted and still developing, why couldn't we do the same with an expected "more talented player" ?

Because there is no guarantee that any of the guys drafted past 25 will even be starter quality, and truth is more than half of the guys drafted that late never get a 2nd contract in the league. I know people's perception gets screwed up watching the Nuggets these days and everybody knows guys like Jokic are rare, but guys like Barton, Morris, Hampton, are very rare as well.

Guys drop to the 25th pick for a reason, sometimes it is injury, sometimes it is circumstances, sometimes it is size, but there is a big enough issue that 24 teams choose someone else. I prefer someone who drops because they have a short term injury or are a late bloomer, that is what has a long history of working for us.

It may be the easiest to transition to in the NBA, but it seems to be the hardest slot for teams to fill. Either way it doesn't matter, no team that wants to be a contender is going to depend on a rookie. The SGs that are good still seem to take the 2-3 years it takes every other position to become good all around players. Fact is Jokic has 2 years left on his deal, a year from now we have to extend MPJ, Murray is already on a max deal, we have no starting SG and no depth and a team that was still likely 2nd favorites to come out of the western conference. Now is not the time to be developing a late 1st as a starter. If we had 2 quality guys there than no problem, but without a starting SG this team is not going anywhere, and it makes no sense to be throwing away the 2-3 years it takes to develop a SG.

Guess it's a matter of opinion, but in our circumstances, I'd rather have potentially a talented rookie who could bring game than an inconsistent journeyman like Rivers to try and convince myself we're better off. Regardless where Joker's contract is, we're in this mess for the next 9-18mos, I see doing it with a retread doing nothing for the future of this organization and we should have enough veteran talent to help support a rookie grow confidently. Will there be growing pains ?? Sure but we are still developing another asset than just paying for a journeyman's retirement plan.

What kind of future do we have if we draft another Mudiay? What kind of future would we have with another Lydon? What about another Bol? The Nuggets are the top drafting team in the league, but we are not even close to be guaranteed of getting a lotto pick quality player at a position of need drafting 25th. Go through some of the drafts, in a lot of them you will figure out that 1 or 2 players drafted 25th or later ever develop into a starter. Nobody is throwing away of Jokic's career for a 1 in 35 chance at even getting a guy comparable to the guys you can sign or trade for. Free agency is how you fill the needs around your stars, the draft is for higher upside guys.

The one drafting formula that the Nuggets have successfully used (i.e MPJ) is to find players that have dropped due to injury. I expect that will come into play again because of draft position.

[THE J0KER]

Just a day or two after Murray's ACL injury I stated with bitterness and sadness that all our dreams about 2021 but also the 2022 title are dead already. So we need to use the upcoming 2021-22 season (including 2021 and 2022 offseasons both) as the best preparation for a 2022-23 and 2023-24 mission. From my point of view, priorities should be to establish Jokic as MVP level player, to develop fast Porter into an all-star level, to hold Gordon (make him happy in Denver), to find some good two-way guard to pair with Murray when he comes back, and (last but not least) to find a good competitive coach. Actually, the new coach should be the first thing FO needs to find. Unfortunately, the Hawks grab Nate McMillan for which I advocated here for months. But there are rumors that Bud Budenholzer will be fired if the Bucks lose to the Nets, in that case, FO should act very fast.

Another solution suddenly becomes Rick Carlisle who proved can successfully reach finals and title, and also to run successfully a team built around European superstar. At the end of the day, the main problem with Malone, with all his pro and contras, he is just not the TOP10 coach even in Western Conference alone. LeBron James as unofficial player-coach is the only one who doesn't need at least a decent coach for big success, otherwise, even superteams can be sabotaged by someone's incompetence. The bonus good thing about Carlisle is that he worked in Pistons, Pacers, and Mavs with very tall rosters, and Denver is destined to be a team with a superior frontcourt. Fact that he later worked with very tall guys KP and Marjanovic should be helpful for Bol Bol development.

BTW, dreaming about Nuggets make a new corner-stone change using their #26 pick is out of reality. We can use that pick and add Barton and 2023 first to get about 10 places better pick, but that will not be a guarantee for anything.

[Coeur]

2022 NBA champs

*draft 3-4 rookies or more (g league team now and needing more low paid guys in the rotation now and even more the next few seasons with AG ajd MpJ needing paid)
* impact shooter
* backcourt scorer/shooter
* big goon/Enforcer
* give Malone option of playing Nnaji, bol, dozier or 3-5 rookies
———-
FA and trades: any way to turn Barton, Facu, Green, and prob forced to add Monte morris <——> for Malik monk (front loaded 4 yr deal), Bertans in a trade, and maybe Javale until Buyout season and start recruiting Steven Adam’s

Draft: Jalen Johnson for future picks, One of the Tennessee guys drops to Nugs pick, and N Queta C from Utah state and someone else in the 2nd


Murray/Springer/min
Monk/Dozier
MpJ/Jalen Johnson and Bertans/Bolbol
AG/Nnaji
Jokic/Adams/Javale/Queta

[NuggetsWY]

What I am fairly certain of, is our front office tends to be conservative --- except when re-signing a Malone favorite (like Barton) or gambling on an injury (like Beasley, Porter, Bol). Unfortunately, Malone does not always agree with their gambles (like Beasley & Bol).

What I do know is we have ten players under contract, plus possibly Barton.

Jokic & Bol
Porter & Nnaji
Gordon & Green & Cancar
Morris [Barton]
Murray & Campazzo

If we retain Rivers, I do believe this team could compete to finish in the top-4 in the west - especially if they also retain Dozier.

I expect the Nuggets will retain Howard & Harrison - and while I like them, I see them as fairly easy to replace.

I don't expect many changes except Millsap & McGee - and I could see the Nuggets deciding to re-sign them. I believe we only have one draft pick - so I just don't see many changes.

*** But I sure do wish they would make some of the changes that have been proposed in this thread.

[The Rebel]

Players I'd like to see return: McGee (if Malone will play him), Barton (if he can make peace with a sixth man role once Murray returns), Dozier (he may indeed be a starter by default and he shows some promise on defense), and Harrison (if he spends the offseason working on his shooting).

I'm not sure Denver can pull off another Gordon-like trade for next season without creating a significant hole somewhere in the roster. I think Denver's fortunes rest on developing players already in-house (including Porter's defense) and getting Murray back in time for a run for decent playoff positioning.

Why do you want Barton back and what makes you think that he will be okay with coming off the bench? To me he has already shown that he is unwilling to come off the bench, and even worse he is not a dependable player. Not only the injuries make him undependable, but his actual play on the court where you never know what you will get from him.

Personally I view it as this is our last chance to use the full MLE and to use the $9.5 million TPE we have. Which means we can basically go out and get 2 average players without costing us anybody or anything really. If we are giving MPJ a large extension as it sounded like in Connelly's press conference than after this I fully expect us to be at the tax line for the next few years. Even 2 average players at SG would have made a huge difference in these playoffs.

[The Rebel]

What I am fairly certain of, is our front office tends to be conservative --- except when re-signing a Malone favorite (like Barton) or gambling on an injury (like Beasley, Porter, Bol). Unfortunately, Malone does not always agree with their gambles (like Beasley & Bol).

What I do know is we have ten players under contract, plus possibly Barton.

Jokic & Bol
Porter & Nnaji
Gordon & Green & Cancar
Morris [Barton]
Murray & Campazzo

If we retain Rivers, I do believe this team could compete to finish in the top-4 in the west - especially if they also retain Dozier.

I expect the Nuggets will retain Howard & Harrison - and while I like them, I see them as fairly easy to replace.

I don't expect many changes except Millsap & McGee - and I could see the Nuggets deciding to re-sign them. I believe we only have one draft pick - so I just don't see many changes.

*** But I sure do wish they would make some of the changes that have been proposed in this thread.

To be fair Beasley is still known for not playing a lick of defense, and Bol is the only 7' in the league that cannot get off the bench but spends his time in warm ups practicing 35 foot fade away 3s on every shot. We still could use Beasley's scoring off the bench, but his lack of defense is always going to be a problem and going to keep him from ever being a true starter in the NBA.

Listening to sports radio and Connelly's end of season press conference it sure sounds like everybody around the team expects Barton to be gone.

I also get the sense that many are expecting Green to be gone as well. After his season I don't see him getting a bigger contract, but maybe he will look for a longer one since he is 30.

I think Dozier and Howard are almost guaranteed to be back, unless they find a trade and have to use them.

I don't see any big deals coming but I think with as bad as our bench is and the huge hole we have at starting guard that they are going to have to do something. We just have to hope it works out better than only finding 3 keepers as they did last offseason.

[longtallbrad]

Players I'd like to see return: McGee (if Malone will play him), Barton (if he can make peace with a sixth man role once Murray returns), Dozier (he may indeed be a starter by default and he shows some promise on defense), and Harrison (if he spends the offseason working on his shooting).

I'm not sure Denver can pull off another Gordon-like trade for next season without creating a significant hole somewhere in the roster. I think Denver's fortunes rest on developing players already in-house (including Porter's defense) and getting Murray back in time for a run for decent playoff positioning.

Why do you want Barton back and what makes you think that he will be okay with coming off the bench? To me he has already shown that he is unwilling to come off the bench, and even worse he is not a dependable player. Not only the injuries make him undependable, but his actual play on the court where you never know what you will get from him.

Personally I view it as this is our last chance to use the full MLE and to use the $9.5 million TPE we have. Which means we can basically go out and get 2 average players without costing us anybody or anything really. If we are giving MPJ a large extension as it sounded like in Connelly's press conference than after this I fully expect us to be at the tax line for the next few years. Even 2 average players at SG would have made a huge difference in these playoffs.

Actually, I agree with you. There have been times in the past couple years when Barton has supplied a needed infusion of productive energy on the offensive end of the floor, but I do suspect that he's unlikely to accept the role the team needs him to play. I've been a Nuggets fan since the late '70s (to date myself), and I'm not used to thinking of Denver as a potentially attractive destination for free agents. That said, the Nuggets have never before (or at least not since about 1976) had this kind of magnetic power.

Fingers crossed that your vision is realized. Can you give examples of the sort of "2 average players" that might be available and could help make a difference for the Nuggets.

[skywalker33]

Felt like Barton's appearance in this year's playoff was merely gratuitous.....

[The Rebel]

Players I'd like to see return: McGee (if Malone will play him), Barton (if he can make peace with a sixth man role once Murray returns), Dozier (he may indeed be a starter by default and he shows some promise on defense), and Harrison (if he spends the offseason working on his shooting).

I'm not sure Denver can pull off another Gordon-like trade for next season without creating a significant hole somewhere in the roster. I think Denver's fortunes rest on developing players already in-house (including Porter's defense) and getting Murray back in time for a run for decent playoff positioning.

Why do you want Barton back and what makes you think that he will be okay with coming off the bench? To me he has already shown that he is unwilling to come off the bench, and even worse he is not a dependable player. Not only the injuries make him undependable, but his actual play on the court where you never know what you will get from him.

Personally I view it as this is our last chance to use the full MLE and to use the $9.5 million TPE we have. Which means we can basically go out and get 2 average players without costing us anybody or anything really. If we are giving MPJ a large extension as it sounded like in Connelly's press conference than after this I fully expect us to be at the tax line for the next few years. Even 2 average players at SG would have made a huge difference in these playoffs.

Actually, I agree with you. There have been times in the past couple years when Barton has supplied a needed infusion of productive energy on the offensive end of the floor, but I do suspect that he's unlikely to accept the role the team needs him to play. I've been a Nuggets fan since the late '70s (to date myself), and I'm not used to thinking of Denver as a potentially attractive destination for free agents. That said, the Nuggets have never before (or at least not since about 1976) had this kind of magnetic power.

Fingers crossed that your vision is realized. Can you give examples of the sort of "2 average players" that might be available and could help make a difference for the Nuggets.

I am right there with you in age and length of suffering as a Nuggets fan (there are a lot more older posters on here than you would think). I do think we are attractive to a lot of players, at least the smarter role players. Not only do we have the reigning MVP that is unselfish and makes the game easier for everybody, I think our city and franchise has changed a lot of perceptions around the league. There are a lot of guys who used to be here that still talk well about the city and franchise, having guys like Melo and Gallo talking about wishing they could come back helps. A lot of the guys coming up now grew up watching the Melo Nuggets so we are not like we were after the wasted 90s, where young guys never had even heard of us. If Murray did not get injured than we would have likely been favorites to go to the finals this year. There is a lot to like about joining the Nuggets, especially if someone does not want to be on the east coast.

Barton is fine as a 4th starter type, at least he was when he tried on defense last year. He can give you some defense, take advantage of some matchups, can create for himself when needed, and the defense. For bench guys I always want them to have some kind of dependable role. Remember the teams in the 80s you have Hanzlick who was a hustle guy not afraid to get physical and a Mike Evans who was a very dependable shooter? the Melo teams had a guy like Andersen who was going to run his ass off and block shots, JR who was going to score, and Dahntay Jones was not afraid to physically defend anybody. Who are those guys on this team? You know what you are getting from Morris and Campazzo, but I don't think any of us know what we are getting from Barton, Green, or even Millsap at this point. To me all 3 of those guys need to be gone on way or another.

The 2 guys who I think I would sign for the MLE type of money is Alex Caruso and Malik Monk. Caruso I think works well next to Morris and eventually Murray, as the defender that is solid on offense that we need. Monk I think is the bench scorer we need. Playing between Campazzo and Dozier we should still have good perimeter defense off the bench, while desperately needing a shooter/scorer that can half way run the offense.