RealGM

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267078/Tim-Connelly-Wolves-Agree-To-Five-Year-$40M-Deal

Mixed feelings.. he left Nuggets when the team be a true contender for the first time in franchise history, not just a dark horse (I obviously believe in a successful Murray and MPJ comeback already next season before playoffs). But if our ultimate goal is Denver's maiden ring or Big Final I'm not happy to see Malone as cemented Head Coach and Josh who always looks to me like "don't worry be happy" guy as new decision maker. I want to believe that Calvin Booth (TC successor) was deeply involved in late good Grant and Gordon deals, which means he will be capable to do "a missing piece" deal when we need that last push.

TC era will be remembered for amazing drafting for sure, including one of NBA all-time best draft moves (#41 pick turned into two-time MVP). The biggest blow was for sure 2018 draft with missed opportunity to get Donovan Mitchell (or Adebayo) instead of premature Lyle's+Ludom trade, but we have fair compensation on very next draft with grabbing Porter. Personally, I wanted from him to push the trigger already before when Butler and lately Harden was on the table, but he obviously is not a gambler type of manager and prefers focus on own players, which is also a legit choice.

Good luck to TC in the future, and to the Nuggets without him.

A piece of the ownership of the Timberwolves is hard to pass on.

So was TC under contract ? If yes, why no compensation from MIN ? It looks to be a lateral move, not a promotion .

skywalker33 wrote:So was TC under contract ? If yes, why no compensation from MIN ?

He was in his option year

THE J0KER wrote:https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267078/Tim-Connelly-Wolves-Agree-To-Five-Year-$40M-Deal

Mixed feelings.. he left Nuggets when the team be a true contender for the first time in franchise history, not just a dark horse (I obviously believe in a successful Murray and MPJ comeback already next season before playoffs). But if our ultimate goal is Denver's maiden ring or Big Final I'm not happy to see Malone as cemented Head Coach and Josh who always looks to me like "don't worry be happy" guy as new decision maker. I want to believe that Calvin Booth (TC successor) was deeply involved in late good Grant and Gordon deals, which means he will be capable to do "a missing piece" deal when we need that last push.

TC era will be remembered for amazing drafting for sure, including one of NBA all-time best draft moves (#41 pick turned into two-time MVP). The biggest blow was for sure 2018 draft with missed opportunity to get Donovan Mitchell (or Adebayo) instead of premature Lyle's+Ludom trade, but we have fair compensation on very next draft with grabbing Porter. Personally, I wanted from him to push the trigger already before when Butler and lately Harden was on the table, but he obviously is not a gambler type of manager and prefers focus on own players, which is also a legit choice.

Good luck to TC in the future, and to the Nuggets without him.

That was the 2017 draft. They nabbed Michael Porter Jr. in the 2018 draft. I think TC was trying to nab OG Anunoby with the lower pick and thought that Trey Lyles would pan out in Denver, but Lyles didn't pan out and Toronto nabbed OG 1 pick before Denver.

Bam Adebayo and Mitchell would've been interesting. Not to mention besides Allen(wasn't happening because you already had Joker) you had John Collins in that draft as well.

It's gonna be interesting to see how Calvin Booth does as the heir apparent.

Just about 2 weeks until the draft, I''m thinking Booth will want to start making a name for himself. I get a feeling that we may make a trade to improve this team, my thought would be to obtain a SG using Morris and/or Barton. I'd like them to move up in the draft as I see the depth of the wing position in this draft

So, with TC gone to MIN, we now have Calvin Booth as our GM. I heard he's doing pre-draft workouts and the question came to mind. Do former players-turned-GM's look for players who resemble themselves or players they played with/against ?? Or can they evaluate the needs of the team and look for those types of players ??

skywalker33 wrote:So, with TC gone to MIN, we now have Calvin Booth as our GM. I heard he's doing pre-draft workouts and the question came to mind. Do former players-turned-GM's look for players who resemble themselves or players they played with/against ?? Or can they evaluate the needs of the team and look for those types of players ??

I don't think you can generalize like that, Jerry West, Pat Riley, Danny Ainge all are former NBA players that have built championship teams that were thought to be ahead of their time when they happened. James Jones has tried to build a perimeter 3 star team like the ones he played on. Meanwhile guys like Steve Kerr took the seven second Suns and tried to turn them into a post centric offense, I still cannot figure out what Vlade was trying to do with the Kings.

I do find it odd that as soon as AK left and Booth was made our GM while being 2nd in charge, we added both Greens in 2 offseason despite already having 4 young PFs on the roster.

The Rebel wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:So, with TC gone to MIN, we now have Calvin Booth as our GM. I heard he's doing pre-draft workouts and the question came to mind. Do former players-turned-GM's look for players who resemble themselves or players they played with/against ?? Or can they evaluate the needs of the team and look for those types of players ??

I don't think you can generalize like that, Jerry West, Pat Riley, Danny Ainge all are former NBA players that have built championship teams that were thought to be ahead of their time when they happened. James Jones has tried to build a perimeter 3 star team like the ones he played on. Meanwhile guys like Steve Kerr took the seven second Suns and tried to turn them into a post centric offense, I still cannot figure out what Vlade was trying to do with the Kings.

I do find it odd that as soon as AK left and Booth was made our GM while being 2nd in charge, we added both Greens in 2 offseason despite already having 4 young PFs on the roster.

Wasn't trying to generalize this, nor aiming specifically at Booth either. Just, I can see it being a little different evaluation from one who has played the game rather than those who have always representing the owners

skywalker33 wrote:

The Rebel wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:So, with TC gone to MIN, we now have Calvin Booth as our GM. I heard he's doing pre-draft workouts and the question came to mind. Do former players-turned-GM's look for players who resemble themselves or players they played with/against ?? Or can they evaluate the needs of the team and look for those types of players ??

I don't think you can generalize like that, Jerry West, Pat Riley, Danny Ainge all are former NBA players that have built championship teams that were thought to be ahead of their time when they happened. James Jones has tried to build a perimeter 3 star team like the ones he played on. Meanwhile guys like Steve Kerr took the seven second Suns and tried to turn them into a post centric offense, I still cannot figure out what Vlade was trying to do with the Kings.

I do find it odd that as soon as AK left and Booth was made our GM while being 2nd in charge, we added both Greens in 2 offseason despite already having 4 young PFs on the roster.

Wasn't trying to generalize this, nor aiming specifically at Booth either. Just, I can see it being a little different evaluation from one who has played the game rather than those who have always representing the owners

I get that, and in some cases it seems to help guys judge other players, if anything I think the good former players are better at adjusting to the game changes, especially if they had a long career.

For example we all know that Connelly was focused on building like the WArriors when he got here. We drafted a bunch of guards, the 2 bigs we kept were Nurkic (who early career reminded me of Bogut) and Jokic. In fact I think his entire time here he was trying to recreate the Warriors. How else do you explain all the damn undersized 4s and Malone and Connelly trying to force them into a draymond green type of role?

If I remember right a few years ago it was Booth that told a local Nuggets beat reporter that he had to point out to the front office how good both Nurkic and Jokic were, that all they talked about was the talent of Mudiay, Harris, Murray, Beasley, and that they had to find a defensive SF.

It is no secret that I have felt that Connelly was overrated and have been annoyed that he has escaped criticism over the years. I still think he had no idea how to build around Jokic, and was never aggressive enough on deals. He is a hell of a scout, but I am not sold on the rest and haven't been for a while.

I know that it is Booth's 1st deal by himself, but I am excited that he was able to turn JaMychal and a future 1st into a TPE, a late 1st, and 2 2nds rights now. We need balance and depth on this roster, and Booth took a step towards that while getting something for someone we all thought was neutral in value at best.

So, now that TC is gone, will the Cone of Silence remain in Denver or will hear draft/trade rumors ?

I did not see any discussion, but I think in paper Connelly made an excellent draft. He converted one pick 19 to two. Kessler was his man and he got Wendell Moore who is a great prospect almost for free. Additionally he also drafter Minott who might be a solid role player.

He was trading up and down during the draft, as he loves to (remembering Lyles - Anunoby situation). Classical Connelly's draft

Manolito wrote:I did not see any discussion, but I think in paper Connelly made an excellent draft. He converted one pick 19 to two. Kessler was his man and he got Wendell Moore who is a great prospect almost for free. Additionally he also drafter Minott who might be a solid role player.

He was trading up and down during the draft, as he loves to (remembering Lyles - Anunoby situation). Classical Connelly's draft

Still love me some TC but I was only lukewarm on his draft. Kessler looked like an early 2nd to me, think Moore Jr will be a decent player but both 1st rounders are career backups IMO. Can't say I know enough about Minott or Spagnolo to do backflips over but this was a depth draft at best, not one starter so MEH.....

One thing I do like about these moves by Booth, they are quick and decisive. This current roster looks like it's 95% constructed. TC was always reactive, CB looks to be very proactive IMO

Connelly has been getting killed by Justin Termine for the last half hour on NBA radio. 3 picks only 1 protected, a swap option on a 4th, a guy they just drafted, and 3 role players that should have some value on their own all for Gobert is a huge overpay in my book. Those 3 guys and 2 picks would have been an overpay in my book, but we all know Connelly has always had issues on trades.

The Rebel wrote:Connelly has been getting killed by Justin Termine for the last half hour on NBA radio. 3 picks only 1 protected, a swap option on a 4th, a guy they just drafted, and 3 role players that should have some value on their own all for Gobert is a huge overpay in my book. Those 3 guys and 2 picks would have been an overpay in my book, but we all know Connelly has always had issues on trades.

But the fact is that Connelly after just a few weeks with Wolves makes a way bigger blockbuster trade than any which make for years in Denver, and AK is a very aggressive GM in Chicago. That means the main reason why the Nuggets are so passive and conservative when it comes to trades past several seasons is Josh Kroenke, and I guess the reason why Booth was in a position to be very active lately was not Booth's aggressiveness but Kroenke is currently in honeymoon with Colorado Avalanche success. Also, he signed this summer a 5-year contract with NBA 2-time MVP, and Arsenal London soccer club signed a team-friendly contract with Brazilian striker Gabriel Jesus probably the best player they signed for years, so if Calvin Booth has some big idea about the Nuggets' current roster he must act very fast in next few days in the current transfer window because the old Josh will come back very soon once the honeymoon is over.

THE J0KER wrote:

The Rebel wrote:Connelly has been getting killed by Justin Termine for the last half hour on NBA radio. 3 picks only 1 protected, a swap option on a 4th, a guy they just drafted, and 3 role players that should have some value on their own all for Gobert is a huge overpay in my book. Those 3 guys and 2 picks would have been an overpay in my book, but we all know Connelly has always had issues on trades.

But the fact is that Connelly after just a few weeks with Wolves makes a way bigger blockbuster trade than any which make for years in Denver, and AK is a very aggressive GM in Chicago. That means the main reason why the Nuggets are so passive and conservative when it comes to trades past several seasons is Josh Kroenke, and I guess the reason why Booth was in a position to be very active lately was not Booth's aggressiveness but Kroenke is currently in honeymoon with Colorado Avalanche success. Also, he signed this summer a 5-year contract with NBA 2-time MVP, and Arsenal London soccer club signed a team-friendly contract with Brazilian striker Gabriel Jesus probably the best player they signed for years, so if Calvin Booth has some big idea about the Nuggets' current roster he must act very fast in next few days in the current transfer window because the old Josh will come back very soon once the honeymoon is over.

If this is what Connelly was willing to give up for a player he could have traded for Durant. He gave superstar value for a very flawed player and at the same time threw away the teams best perimeter defenders. We don't lose in the playoffs to teams in the paint, we lose to long 2s and 3s. For years we have been signing Gleague defenders to play perimeter defense, it goes back to Craig. They are going to have the same issue we had, but even worse how do they fix it going forward? He gave up every 1st round pick he could to get Gobert and created a huge issue at the same time.

It is easier to take over a new team and just start dumping guys and picks for the guys you want, the thing is what happens long term. Connelly's biggest strength is drafting, he has a history of mistakes in both free agency and trades, this deal gave up his strength with the goal of winning now, and if it don't work, then what can he do?

Because of Connelly drafted Jokic and well overall, because he made a fair deal for Gordon, and because the last free agent he signed was Cousins, people forget all the mistakes he made over the years. Connelly just bet everything on a twin towers concept that ignores the fact the league has become perimeter orientated over the years.

The Rebel wrote:

Spoiler:

THE J0KER wrote:

The Rebel wrote:Connelly has been getting killed by Justin Termine for the last half hour on NBA radio. 3 picks only 1 protected, a swap option on a 4th, a guy they just drafted, and 3 role players that should have some value on their own all for Gobert is a huge overpay in my book. Those 3 guys and 2 picks would have been an overpay in my book, but we all know Connelly has always had issues on trades.

But the fact is that Connelly after just a few weeks with Wolves makes a way bigger blockbuster trade than any which make for years in Denver, and AK is a very aggressive GM in Chicago. That means the main reason why the Nuggets are so passive and conservative when it comes to trades past several seasons is Josh Kroenke, and I guess the reason why Booth was in a position to be very active lately was not Booth's aggressiveness but Kroenke is currently in honeymoon with Colorado Avalanche success. Also, he signed this summer a 5-year contract with NBA 2-time MVP, and Arsenal London soccer club signed a team-friendly contract with Brazilian striker Gabriel Jesus probably the best player they signed for years, so if Calvin Booth has some big idea about the Nuggets' current roster he must act very fast in next few days in the current transfer window because the old Josh will come back very soon once the honeymoon is over.

If this is what Connelly was willing to give up for a player he could have traded for Durant. He gave superstar value for a very flawed player and at the same time threw away the teams best perimeter defenders. We don't lose in the playoffs to teams in the paint, we lose to long 2s and 3s. For years we have been signing Gleague defenders to play perimeter defense, it goes back to Craig. They are going to have the same issue we had, but even worse how do they fix it going forward? He gave up every 1st round pick he could to get Gobert and created a huge issue at the same time.

It is easier to take over a new team and just start dumping guys and picks for the guys you want, the thing is what happens long term. Connelly's biggest strength is drafting, he has a history of mistakes in both free agency and trades, this deal gave up his strength with the goal of winning now, and if it don't work, then what can he do?

Because of Connelly drafted Jokic and well overall, because he made a fair deal for Gordon, and because the last free agent he signed was Cousins, people forget all the mistakes he made over the years. Connelly just bet everything on a twin towers concept that ignores the fact the league has become perimeter orientated over the years.

I agree that Twin Towers never worked in NBA apart from the Duncan-Robinson exception, but this team with 4 notable players is super competitive, so these picks (apart from the last ones from 2029) are most probably fools gold (20+ each). Remember the super-tall Sixers roster with Embiid, Horford, T.Harris, and Simmons. They never fulfilled expectations but were a super-competitive team (Kawhi beat them in the 7th game with a boozer when Toronto won the title). Don' forget that all Wolves stars are tradable (even DLo). It is easy to say that value of traded picks will be higher than Gobert, but they must wait until 2029, and they are a small-market team that played 8 playoffs in a row during the Kevin Garnett era but only twice in the next 18 seasons, and this move will make them relevant again. Also, do you remember Pelicans Twin Tower AD-DMC? They also didn't fulfill expectations, but mostly because of injuries, and they both played 36 mpg with just about 25 mpg together and the other half of the game one of them was always on the floor which is a nightmare for the opponent's backup rotations if there is always an all-star center on the floor. The team's best guard Jrue Holliday has a great 20-5-5 season, and the 2022+ Wolves are more balanced with TWO notable guards, especially 2020 #1 pick Anthony Edwards will benefit from this situation. KAT-Edwards-Russell is on the playoff edge in the stacked West with Russell expiring, but Gobert-KAT-Edwards-Russell is playoff locked, even with eventual Russell 2024 exit. This is not a bad trade as it seems, and this package would be enough for Durant only if Minnesota was a bigger market.

Ironically, it was Tim Connelly who traded Gobert to the Jazz to begin with.

THE J0KER wrote:

The Rebel wrote:

Spoiler:

THE J0KER wrote:But the fact is that Connelly after just a few weeks with Wolves makes a way bigger blockbuster trade than any which make for years in Denver, and AK is a very aggressive GM in Chicago. That means the main reason why the Nuggets are so passive and conservative when it comes to trades past several seasons is Josh Kroenke, and I guess the reason why Booth was in a position to be very active lately was not Booth's aggressiveness but Kroenke is currently in honeymoon with Colorado Avalanche success. Also, he signed this summer a 5-year contract with NBA 2-time MVP, and Arsenal London soccer club signed a team-friendly contract with Brazilian striker Gabriel Jesus probably the best player they signed for years, so if Calvin Booth has some big idea about the Nuggets' current roster he must act very fast in next few days in the current transfer window because the old Josh will come back very soon once the honeymoon is over.

If this is what Connelly was willing to give up for a player he could have traded for Durant. He gave superstar value for a very flawed player and at the same time threw away the teams best perimeter defenders. We don't lose in the playoffs to teams in the paint, we lose to long 2s and 3s. For years we have been signing Gleague defenders to play perimeter defense, it goes back to Craig. They are going to have the same issue we had, but even worse how do they fix it going forward? He gave up every 1st round pick he could to get Gobert and created a huge issue at the same time.

It is easier to take over a new team and just start dumping guys and picks for the guys you want, the thing is what happens long term. Connelly's biggest strength is drafting, he has a history of mistakes in both free agency and trades, this deal gave up his strength with the goal of winning now, and if it don't work, then what can he do?

Because of Connelly drafted Jokic and well overall, because he made a fair deal for Gordon, and because the last free agent he signed was Cousins, people forget all the mistakes he made over the years. Connelly just bet everything on a twin towers concept that ignores the fact the league has become perimeter orientated over the years.

I agree that Twin Towers never worked in NBA apart from the Duncan-Robinson exception, but this team with 4 notable players is super competitive, so these picks (apart from the last ones from 2029) are most probably fools gold (20+ each). Remember the super-tall Sixers roster with Embiid, Horford, T.Harris, and Simmons. They never fulfilled expectations but were a super-competitive team (Kawhi beat them in the 7th game with a boozer when Toronto won the title). Don' forget that all Wolves stars are tradable (even DLo). It is easy to say that value of traded picks will be higher than Gobert, but they must wait until 2029, and they are a small-market team that played 8 playoffs in a row during the Kevin Garnett era but only twice in the next 18 seasons, and this move will make them relevant again. Also, do you remember Pelicans Twin Tower AD-DMC? They also didn't fulfill expectations, but mostly because of injuries, and they both played 36 mpg with just about 25 mpg together and the other half of the game one of them was always on the floor which is a nightmare for the opponent's backup rotations if there is always an all-star center on the floor. The team's best guard Jrue Holliday has a great 20-5-5 season, and the 2022+ Wolves are more balanced with TWO notable guards, especially 2020 #1 pick Anthony Edwards will benefit from this situation. KAT-Edwards-Russell is on the playoff edge in the stacked West with Russell expiring, but Gobert-KAT-Edwards-Russell is playoff locked, even with eventual Russell 2024 exit. This is not a bad trade as it seems, and this package would be enough for Durant only if Minnesota was a bigger market.

The 76rs team with Embiid, Horford, Harris, and Simmons is the year after they lost in game 7, that game 7 was the last game that Butler played for the 76ers and then their front office decided to outsmart themselves. The team with Horford was swept in the 1st round the following year.

The thing is that I believe a twin towers concept will work, and I have seen it work. I don't even believe that adding Gobert is the issue.

My biggest issue with the trade is the price. It is not just the 4 future picks and the swap, it is the 4 future picks, the swap, a guy they literally just drafted last week, a prospect in Bolmaro only a year into his career, and their 2 best perimeter defenders. They literally outbid themselves because nobody else was offering anything close to that.

The mistake that Connelly made, which he followed up by compounding it and is rumored to be wanting to compounding it further, is that he got rid of their 2 best perimeter defenders while giving up basically 5 1st round picks to do it.

The Twolves were 11th against 3 point shots last year, they obviously struggled in the paint despite only 38% of their shots against coming from within 6 feet of the rim. They still had a better defense than the Nuggets overall despite giving up a lot more points in the paint per game than the Nuggets. Their 3 best perimeter defenders were Vanderbilt, Beverly, and Russell, 2 of them are gone and 1 is reportedly being shopped.

If you look into the tracking stats for the Jazz, or if you watched a few of their games, you realize that most of the shots against the Jazz were 3s and long 2s, in fact 88% of the shots against the Jazz are from outside 15 feet. Don't you think they should be trying to keep perimeter defenders on the Twolves? The Jazz had the same issue that we did last year, and that is that their perimeter defense was bad.

The Twolves 1st move after the trade was to sign Forbes, a guy who cannot defend anybody. Their only other signing this year was a 6'9" Slow Mo Anderson, a defensive combo forward. Sound familiar?

Connelly is literally building a team with the exact same fatal flaw as the one he built in Denver, the one Booth has spent the draft and last 2 trades trying to fix, and the same flaw that the Jazz have shown that Gobert cannot overcome in the last couple of years. He went all in on a playoff team and turned one of their strengths into a weakness while only marginally improving their weakness as a team due to lack of shots at the rim around the league. Connelly obviously does not feel defensive guards are a big need in today's NBA, but the teams that win all have at least 1 outstanding guard defender. They will likely be a playoff team, but once the playoffs hit and they come across teams with good outside and mid range shooting they will lose the series.