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If Oklahoma, as expected, wins the 2025 ring with by far the biggest resistance from our Nuggets, this season (historically speaking) will not be forgotten or remembered as wasted because in two key games of 7-game series which we lost both (games #4 and #5) we lead with double-diggit at some point in the final 4th quarter! That was close!

Anyway, the season is over, and we are scheduled now for probably one of the most interesting off-seasons ever, because (I guess) this time our FO will not be passive as usual during Malone's coaching era.

So, a Bruce Brown tweet seems to indicate he'd be open to coming back to Denver, he could definitely solidify our biggest weakness. Could be a bench of :

C DaRon Holmes
SF Peyton Watson
PF Zeke Nnaji
PG Jalen Pickett
SG Bruce Brown


A lot of unproven commodities here, but could be HUGE addition with Brown and by proxy, Holmes.

Thoughts on a return ?

skywalker33 wrote:So, a Brucw Brown tweet seems to indicate he'd be open to coming back to Denver, he could definitely solidify our biggest weakness. Could be a bench of ;

C DaRon Holmes
SF Peyton Watson
PF Zeke Nnaji
PG Jalen Pickett
SG Bruce Brown


A lot of unproven commodities here, but could be HUGE addition with Brown and by proxy, Holmes.

Thoughts on a return ?

I'd love a return of Mr. Brown. I'd love to see Pickett, Watson, Nnaji, Holmes all get some PT. But I'm really intrigued by a bench backcourt of Westbrook & Brown. Two high energy, full speed all the time type of guards; both of whom could be starters on lots of teams. I think our bench could take a big step up with that combo.

NuggetsWY wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:So, a Brucw Brown tweet seems to indicate he'd be open to coming back to Denver, he could definitely solidify our biggest weakness. Could be a bench of ;

C DaRon Holmes
SF Peyton Watson
PF Zeke Nnaji
PG Jalen Pickett
SG Bruce Brown


A lot of unproven commodities here, but could be HUGE addition with Brown and by proxy, Holmes.

Thoughts on a return ?

I's love a return of Mr. Brown. I'd love to see Pickett, Watson, Nnaji, Holmes all get some PT. But I'm really intrigued by a bench backcourt of Westbrook & Brown. Two high energy, full speed all the time type of guards; both of whom could be starters on lots of teams. I think our bench could take a big step up with that combo.

I could see the WB/Brown pairing but bet it'd take WB's salary (and/or hopefully Saric's) to lure Brown here, just my opinion though.

skywalker33 wrote:

NuggetsWY wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:So, a Brucw Brown tweet seems to indicate he'd be open to coming back to Denver, he could definitely solidify our biggest weakness. Could be a bench of ;

C DaRon Holmes
SF Peyton Watson
PF Zeke Nnaji
PG Jalen Pickett
SG Bruce Brown


A lot of unproven commodities here, but could be HUGE addition with Brown and by proxy, Holmes.

Thoughts on a return ?

I's love a return of Mr. Brown. I'd love to see Pickett, Watson, Nnaji, Holmes all get some PT. But I'm really intrigued by a bench backcourt of Westbrook & Brown. Two high energy, full speed all the time type of guards; both of whom could be starters on lots of teams. I think our bench could take a big step up with that combo.

I could see the WB/Brown pairing but bet it'd take WB's salary (and/or hopefully Saric's) to lure Brown here, just my opinion though.

Russ is on a vet min at the moment. I think we will have the taxpayer MLE available for a max of 2 years at $5.1M. Russ might opt out to try and get that raise but he may also be limited on suitors or wanting to stay with us. That will be a huge factor in what we can do this offseason. If we can get Bruce and keep Russ, it would be nice, but I could see us siding with one or the other (preferably Bruce, IMO) and letting Picket get more time next year.

Its also tough that we potentially only have two or three roster spots available. I think its probably the end for Vladko in the NBA. His contract is up and we cant keep wasting a spot on him without development or health. DJ wouldnt be horrible to be back, but it would be nice to see a rotation backup center. Dario hopefully finds a deal overseas that makes it worth him leavimg his players option. That still looks like one of the worst decisions Calvin Booth made in his tenure although I still dont get how he looked so good in the olympica and so bad here.

This roaster did well, better than anyone would have expected. But it is over, it is hard parting ways with someone like Murray, but there is no other way. Same with MPJ. Malone is gone already. In my view, Nuggets need to break it up.
What can be gotten for Murray and MPJ, and whatever else?

Change the makeup of this team, as is it does not work; it's not even that risky, with Jokic, you are nearly guaranteed a 50-win season.

MyTake_1 wrote:This roaster did well, better than anyone would have expected. But it is over, it is hard parting ways with someone like Murray, but there is no other way. Same with MPJ. Malone is gone already. In my view, Nuggets need to break it up.
What can be gotten for Murray and MPJ, and whatever else?

Change the makeup of this team, as is it does not work; it's not even that risky, with Jokic, you are nearly guaranteed a 50-win season.

Well it's always easy to just say "Trade Murray or trade MPJ", very predominant view in non-Nuggets fans, even some disgruntled Nuggets fans. However, to say this doesn't work is obvious amiss saying it doesn't work as they have already WON a Championship, took OKC to a Game 7, all with an injury plagued starting 3/5 lineup and lackluster bench.

During todays press conference, Josh Kroenke stated this team doesn't need to revamp the culture (which I disagree with) but the firing of Malone and Booth were just the beginning of that endeavor. He also stated there will be better player expectations from the players such as health and conditioning, (both Jokic and Murray were out of shape at the beginning of and during much of the season in Murray's case,) lack of focus ( they dropped several games they shouldn't have ) and restructure the lifeless bench. Addressing the bench starts easily with the return of last year's 1st round pick, C/F DaRon Holmes. Since he was lost before the season even stated, we really don't know what we'll be getting but he's been around this team for his first year, hopefully he's picked up insight as well as good habits. Westbrook and Saric both have Player Options which could open Cap space for another free agent or two. Feels like WB's best chance for a title is here and I wouldn't be opposed to him staying at that $3.5M PO but Saric is just a $5.1M dead weight. Rumor has it he too was so out of shape he couldn't play his way back on to the court and he would like to be a star player again, perhaps for another team in Europe. Let's hope. Another good development is we will have a $5.8M Mid-Level Exception to work with in signing a free agents such as, oh say Bruce Brown, Steven Adams, Luke Kennard any of which could fill a strong role on this team. There is also the possibility that any or all of Watson, Strawther and even Pickett could take another step forward in their development

Health and conditioning are the next issue, both can be addressed but are subject to a lot of factors. Health was not a detriment in 2023 season when we won our Chip but couldn't better conditioning help that (as well as some focus issues ?).

Either it's not hopeless or I am a eternal Nuggets optimist (or both. ok, just call me a Homer)

skywalker33 wrote:

MyTake_1 wrote:This roaster did well, better than anyone would have expected. But it is over, it is hard parting ways with someone like Murray, but there is no other way. Same with MPJ. Malone is gone already. In my view, Nuggets need to break it up.
What can be gotten for Murray and MPJ, and whatever else?

Change the makeup of this team, as is it does not work; it's not even that risky, with Jokic, you are nearly guaranteed a 50-win season.

Well it's always easy to just say "Trade Murray or trade MPJ", very predominant view in non-Nuggets fans, even some disgruntled Nuggets fans. However, to say this doesn't work is obvious amiss saying it doesn't work as they have already WON a Championship, took OKC to a Game 7, all with an injury plagued starting 3/5 lineup and lackluster bench.

During todays press conference, Josh Kroenke stated this team doesn't need to revamp the culture (which I disagree with) but the firing of Malone and Booth were just the beginning of that endeavor. He also stated there will be better player expectations from the players such as health and conditioning, (both Jokic and Murray were out of shape at the beginning of and during much of the season in Murray's case,) lack of focus ( they dropped several games they shouldn't have ) and restructure the lifeless bench. Addressing the bench starts easily with the return of last year's 1st round pick, C/F DaRon Holmes. Since he was lost before the season even stated, we really don't know what we'll be getting but he's been around this team for his first year, hopefully he's picked up insight as well as good habits. Westbrook and Saric both have Player Options which could open Cap space for another free agent or two. Feels like WB's best chance for a title is here and I wouldn't be opposed to him staying at that $3.5M PO but Saric is just a $5.1M dead weight. Rumor has it he too was so out of shape he couldn't play his way back on to the court and he would like to be a star player again, perhaps for another team in Europe. Let's hope. Another good development is we will have a $5.8M Mid-Level Exception to work with in signing a free agents such as, oh say Bruce Brown, Steven Adams, Luke Kennard any of which could fill a strong role on this team. There is also the possibility that any or all of Watson, Strawther and even Pickett could take another step forward in their development

Health and conditioning are the next issue, both can be addressed but are subject to a lot of factors. Health was not a detriment in 2023 season when we won our Chip but couldn't better conditioning help that (as well as some focus issues ?).

Either it's not hopeless or I am a eternal Nuggets optimist (or both. ok, just call me a Homer)

Chasing a ring can be very expensive and it's not just about money. The Nuggets will find it difficult to acquire players of equal value when trading their biggest contracts. If another team wants to make a trade for a high salary player, they are going to be including someone they don't want (just like the Nuggets would be doing). Anything less is difficult to negotiate.

But the cost goes far beyond the $$$. The Nuggets have made multiple trades over recent years, trying to acquire the "right"players. Consider the numerous former Nuggets floating around in the NBA and some have had nice careers after leaving the Nuggets.

We traded lots of draft picks and we can prove that by the lack of draft picks we have this year. Look at future draft years and you can see plenty of evidence of traded picks.

So my question becomes, what skill set are we looking for? Some fans want a 20 year player -- those are not players that will fit with Jokic's skills. He needs players that like to run and set back picks. He needs solid defensive players. He can handle beatings down low but he can't cover pick-n-roll well. So he needs solid defenders that will slide down low to help and then hustle to cover the open men.

Trade Murray because we don't want him? I challenge anyone to find a team that wants Murray and can provide a player with the skill set to match up with Jokic. Porter? Same problem; maybe even more difficult because he's "tainted" with all the "back issues" discussions over the years. The only other "big salary" to trade would be Gordon and in my opinion he is almost impossible to trade because he is more valuable next to Jokic than he would be anywhere else in the league.

The next highest Nuggets salary is less than $10m -- Nnaji. Everyone else is less than $5m. That leaves it very difficult to trade for a "difference maker".

Let's go crazy; trade Jokic? What in the world could anyone offer to make the Nuggets a playoff contender (forget championships).

Jokic -- Murray -- Gordon -- Porter -- Braun was arguably the best starting five in the league. We need a bench. That's our only problem. We don't actually need a starter.

Westbrook provides bench power and can start when needed. All we need is three or four players to fit with him.

Nnaji, Holmes, Strawther, Watson, Pickett, Tyson -- six young players that have shown some potential. As I have often said, just getting drafted into the NBA means you have potential. Can we develop these players? Obviously nobody has made an effort. Malone focused practices on starters -- most teams do. He wants "role players" to learn by pretending they are somebody from the next opponent. What they need is help developing their skills. But that's just my opinion.

We have seven players under contract next year; three players with a player option; and three players with a team option.
We can certainly sign another player or two -- for deep bench.

I'd love for someone to show me a trade that makes the Nuggets better -- and by better, I mean seriously improve championship potential -- not just "a little better".

If you ask me, what is Murray or MPJ's fair value? Not much, given their salaries.

So we should keep them?

Get what you can and move on.

MyTake_1 wrote:If you ask me, what is Murray or MPJ's fair value? Not much, given their salaries.

So we should keep them?

Get what you can and move on.

Fudge THAT !! We took what is looking like the next NBA Champs to a SEVENTH game, giving them 3 of their 4 current playoff losses, so you want to blow it up ??? You're OBVIOUSLY NOT a Nuggets fan so just go back to your Hole and stop TROLLING here !

skywalker33 wrote:

MyTake_1 wrote:This roaster did well, better than anyone would have expected. But it is over, it is hard parting ways with someone like Murray, but there is no other way. Same with MPJ. Malone is gone already. In my view, Nuggets need to break it up.
What can be gotten for Murray and MPJ, and whatever else?

Change the makeup of this team, as is it does not work; it's not even that risky, with Jokic, you are nearly guaranteed a 50-win season.

Well it's always easy to just say "Trade Murray or trade MPJ", very predominant view in non-Nuggets fans, even some disgruntled Nuggets fans. However, to say this doesn't work is obvious amiss saying it doesn't work as they have already WON a Championship, took OKC to a Game 7, all with an injury plagued starting 3/5 lineup and lackluster bench.

During todays press conference, Josh Kroenke stated this team doesn't need to revamp the culture (which I disagree with) but the firing of Malone and Booth were just the beginning of that endeavor. He also stated there will be better player expectations from the players such as health and conditioning, (both Jokic and Murray were out of shape at the beginning of and during much of the season in Murray's case,) lack of focus ( they dropped several games they shouldn't have ) and restructure the lifeless bench. Addressing the bench starts easily with the return of last year's 1st round pick, C/F DaRon Holmes. Since he was lost before the season even stated, we really don't know what we'll be getting but he's been around this team for his first year, hopefully he's picked up insight as well as good habits. Westbrook and Saric both have Player Options which could open Cap space for another free agent or two. Feels like WB's best chance for a title is here and I wouldn't be opposed to him staying at that $3.5M PO but Saric is just a $5.1M dead weight. Rumor has it he too was so out of shape he couldn't play his way back on to the court and he would like to be a star player again, perhaps for another team in Europe. Let's hope. Another good development is we will have a $5.8M Mid-Level Exception to work with in signing a free agents such as, oh say Bruce Brown, Steven Adams, Luke Kennard any of which could fill a strong role on this team. There is also the possibility that any or all of Watson, Strawther and even Pickett could take another step forward in their development

Health and conditioning are the next issue, both can be addressed but are subject to a lot of factors. Health was not a detriment in 2023 season when we won our Chip but couldn't better conditioning help that (as well as some focus issues ?).

Either it's not hopeless or I am a eternal Nuggets optimist (or both. ok, just call me a Homer)

This is just a nostalgic way to say „more of the same“. The success the Nuggets had was, imho, not thanks to, but despite the presence of two guys who eat up a huge chunk of salary while being far from the #2 and #3 best player on this team. Joker, Gordon and at times Braun and Westbrook carried a huge pack of rocks on their backs named Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr.. Imagine there were two actual max players on top of this team instead of two guys who live off a reputation earned years ago in ONE good run.

If the Nuggets can let go of their championship coach, they should be able to let go of these two guys. Getting rid of them, not adding depth, should be #1 priority imho.

LesGrossman wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:

MyTake_1 wrote:This roaster did well, better than anyone would have expected. But it is over, it is hard parting ways with someone like Murray, but there is no other way. Same with MPJ. Malone is gone already. In my view, Nuggets need to break it up.
What can be gotten for Murray and MPJ, and whatever else?

Change the makeup of this team, as is it does not work; it's not even that risky, with Jokic, you are nearly guaranteed a 50-win season.

Well it's always easy to just say "Trade Murray or trade MPJ", very predominant view in non-Nuggets fans, even some disgruntled Nuggets fans. However, to say this doesn't work is obvious amiss saying it doesn't work as they have already WON a Championship, took OKC to a Game 7, all with an injury plagued starting 3/5 lineup and lackluster bench.

During todays press conference, Josh Kroenke stated this team doesn't need to revamp the culture (which I disagree with) but the firing of Malone and Booth were just the beginning of that endeavor. He also stated there will be better player expectations from the players such as health and conditioning, (both Jokic and Murray were out of shape at the beginning of and during much of the season in Murray's case,) lack of focus ( they dropped several games they shouldn't have ) and restructure the lifeless bench. Addressing the bench starts easily with the return of last year's 1st round pick, C/F DaRon Holmes. Since he was lost before the season even stated, we really don't know what we'll be getting but he's been around this team for his first year, hopefully he's picked up insight as well as good habits. Westbrook and Saric both have Player Options which could open Cap space for another free agent or two. Feels like WB's best chance for a title is here and I wouldn't be opposed to him staying at that $3.5M PO but Saric is just a $5.1M dead weight. Rumor has it he too was so out of shape he couldn't play his way back on to the court and he would like to be a star player again, perhaps for another team in Europe. Let's hope. Another good development is we will have a $5.8M Mid-Level Exception to work with in signing a free agents such as, oh say Bruce Brown, Steven Adams, Luke Kennard any of which could fill a strong role on this team. There is also the possibility that any or all of Watson, Strawther and even Pickett could take another step forward in their development

Health and conditioning are the next issue, both can be addressed but are subject to a lot of factors. Health was not a detriment in 2023 season when we won our Chip but couldn't better conditioning help that (as well as some focus issues ?).

Either it's not hopeless or I am a eternal Nuggets optimist (or both. ok, just call me a Homer)

This is just a nostalgic way to say „more of the same“. The success the Nuggets had was, imho, not thanks to, but despite the presence of two guys who eat up a huge chunk of salary while being far from the #2 and #3 best player on this team. Joker, Gordon and at times Braun and Westbrook carried a huge pack of rocks on their backs named Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr.. Imagine there were two actual max players on top of this team instead of two guys who live off a reputation earned years ago in ONE good run.

If the Nuggets can let go of their championship coach, they should be able to let go of these two guys. Getting rid of them, not adding depth, should be #1 priority imho.

Well, at least a Take that isn't just a blanket statement with no basis. But I do take umbridge with the idea that Malone was the reason for the 2023 Championship, I remember seeing Joker with the clipboard just as much as or more towards the end of games than Malone. The starting 5 of that team along with the bench, talent and chemistry had more to do with the title than Malone , IMHO.

Hard to argue with Jamal's disappearance in the Olympics as well as a lot of the season easily was a HUGE part of the disappointment of this season, I do blame that to his lack of conditioning as well as lack of professionalism ( he values gaming, MMA, gambling, partying (?), etc) over the Regular Season. MPJ's, at least imo, lack of production was due to injuries, he hurt his shoulder in the LAC series and couldn't shoot vs OKC (what his role on this team is all about), so his health was more part of his "MIA-ness" than just poor play. Next, Gordon missed a lot of the season due to injury too (he only played 51 games last year), can't dismiss that. Also, just a fantasy thought of mine, I believe MPJ could be a better #2 scorer given the chance, I've seen his potential a few time when he's played when Murray has been out, just have to address his confidence and injury history.

Remember when nearly EVERYONE was doom-n-glooming over the KCP (and Bruce Brown's free agency move the year prior) exit, yet Braun played better than KCP with a strong emergence as a starter, although to be fair, it did weaken our bench.

As for Malone being a Championship coach, his firing was due to his own immaturity just as much as due to his teams' underperformance. He feuded with the GM, (Calvin Booth) refused to develop the young guys, allowing vets like Jokic, WB and Murray to carry the RS load and wear them down (saw that effect in a couple playoff games, this year as well as last year). His EGO was deteriorating the team chemistry that got us to the finals because it was his way or the highway. Think that didn't take it's toll on the players as well ??

So, while rolling it back may appear to be just "nostalia", please note that the Nuggets played OKC better than any other team in the Western Conf (giving 3of their 5 losses), taking them to a Game Seven. Not to take anything away from them, OKC is a young, talented team who is focused on this season. The Nuggets could've (and possible should've) won games 4 and/or 5 of that series, probably changing many non-Nugget fans perspectives. On top of that, Murray (of all people) guaranteed giving a stronger effort this season, to allow Jokic to live up to his legacy ( take that for what it's worth).

Finally, we'll have a new Coach (one not so set in his Dad's ways), new GM (hopefully he won't get so caught up in a youth-now movement) as well as an influx of talent (DaRon Holmes, use of a tax-payer MLE on, perhaps on Bruce Brown, Steven Adams or ???, perhaps some freed-up Cap $$ along with some further youth development in Watson, Pickett, maybe even Nnaji...(I SAID I was an optimist) the possibilities could be endless.

Now is it conceivable ALL these things come true....probably not but it also has a better chance than a rebuild, IMHO.

skywalker33 wrote:

LesGrossman wrote:

skywalker33 wrote:
Well it's always easy to just say "Trade Murray or trade MPJ", very predominant view in non-Nuggets fans, even some disgruntled Nuggets fans. However, to say this doesn't work is obvious amiss saying it doesn't work as they have already WON a Championship, took OKC to a Game 7, all with an injury plagued starting 3/5 lineup and lackluster bench.

During todays press conference, Josh Kroenke stated this team doesn't need to revamp the culture (which I disagree with) but the firing of Malone and Booth were just the beginning of that endeavor. He also stated there will be better player expectations from the players such as health and conditioning, (both Jokic and Murray were out of shape at the beginning of and during much of the season in Murray's case,) lack of focus ( they dropped several games they shouldn't have ) and restructure the lifeless bench. Addressing the bench starts easily with the return of last year's 1st round pick, C/F DaRon Holmes. Since he was lost before the season even stated, we really don't know what we'll be getting but he's been around this team for his first year, hopefully he's picked up insight as well as good habits. Westbrook and Saric both have Player Options which could open Cap space for another free agent or two. Feels like WB's best chance for a title is here and I wouldn't be opposed to him staying at that $3.5M PO but Saric is just a $5.1M dead weight. Rumor has it he too was so out of shape he couldn't play his way back on to the court and he would like to be a star player again, perhaps for another team in Europe. Let's hope. Another good development is we will have a $5.8M Mid-Level Exception to work with in signing a free agents such as, oh say Bruce Brown, Steven Adams, Luke Kennard any of which could fill a strong role on this team. There is also the possibility that any or all of Watson, Strawther and even Pickett could take another step forward in their development

Health and conditioning are the next issue, both can be addressed but are subject to a lot of factors. Health was not a detriment in 2023 season when we won our Chip but couldn't better conditioning help that (as well as some focus issues ?).

Either it's not hopeless or I am a eternal Nuggets optimist (or both. ok, just call me a Homer)

This is just a nostalgic way to say „more of the same“. The success the Nuggets had was, imho, not thanks to, but despite the presence of two guys who eat up a huge chunk of salary while being far from the #2 and #3 best player on this team. Joker, Gordon and at times Braun and Westbrook carried a huge pack of rocks on their backs named Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr.. Imagine there were two actual max players on top of this team instead of two guys who live off a reputation earned years ago in ONE good run.

If the Nuggets can let go of their championship coach, they should be able to let go of these two guys. Getting rid of them, not adding depth, should be #1 priority imho.

Well, at least a Take that isn't just a blanket statement with no basis. But I do take umbridge with the idea that Malone was the reason for the 2023 Championship, I remember seeing Joker with the clipboard just as much as or more towards the end of games than Malone. The starting 5 of that team along with the bench, talent and chemistry had more to do with the title than Malone , IMHO.

Hard to argue with Jamal's disappearance in the Olympics as well as a lot of the season easily was a HUGE part of the disappointment of this season, I do blame that to his lack of conditioning as well as lack of professionalism ( he values gaming, MMA, gambling, partying (?), etc) over the Regular Season. MPJ's, at least imo, lack of production was due to injuries, he hurt his shoulder in the LAC series and couldn't shoot vs OKC (what his role on this team is all about), so his health was more part of his "MIA-ness" than just poor play. Next, Gordon missed a lot of the season due to injury too (he only played 51 games last year), can't dismiss that. Also, just a fantasy thought of mine, I believe MPJ could be a better #2 scorer given the chance, I've seen his potential a few time when he's played when Murray has been out, just have to address his confidence and injury history.

Remember when nearly EVERYONE was doom-n-glooming over the KCP (and Bruce Brown's free agency move the year prior) exit, yet Braun played better than KCP with a strong emergence as a starter, although to be fair, it did weaken our bench.

As for Malone being a Championship coach, his firing was due to his own immaturity just as much as due to his teams' underperformance. He feuded with the GM, (Calvin Booth) refused to develop the young guys, allowing vets like Jokic, WB and Murray to carry the RS load and wear them down (saw that effect in a couple playoff games, this year as well as last year). His EGO was deteriorating the team chemistry that got us to the finals because it was his way or the highway. Think that didn't take it's toll on the players as well ??

So, while rolling it back may appear to be just "nostalia", please note that the Nuggets played OKC better than any other team in the Western Conf (giving 3of their 5 losses), taking them to a Game Seven. Not to take anything away from them, OKC is a young, talented team who is focused on this season. The Nuggets could've (and possible should've) won games 4 and/or 5 of that series, probably changing many non-Nugget fans perspectives. On top of that, Murray (of all people) guaranteed giving a stronger effort this season, to allow Jokic to live up to his legacy ( take that for what it's worth).

Finally, we'll have a new Coach (one not so set in his Dad's ways), new GM (hopefully he won't get so caught up in a youth-now movement) as well as an influx of talent (DaRon Holmes, use of a tax-payer MLE on, perhaps on Bruce Brown, Steven Adams or ???, perhaps some freed-up Cap $$ along with some further youth development in Watson, Pickett, maybe even Nnaji...(I SAID I was an optimist) the possibilities could be endless.

Now is it conceivable ALL these things come true....probably not but it also has a better chance than a rebuild, IMHO.

Thank you for elaborating. I have a different view on both max players. I saw MPJ fail in the crucial moments for several seasons now, imho it had nothing to do with this injury. A player with this income and this limited role needs to be absolutely reliable with few off nights. He is the exact opposite. He catches fire in meaningless, no-pressure games and disappears / chokes in the crucial ones. In the end, over the entire season, his numbers will look decent if you dont look into when he showed up and when he didnt.

Same with Jamal. In my opinion he is a low-IQ one dimensional player who only looks good when low percentage hail Maries fall, which admittedly happens more often for him than for the average player. Still he is far, far away from being a legit #2. We need to understand that we are wasting Jokic‘s prime right now. Reminds me of KD on OKC, where Russ kept the ball away from him for so long that he eventually decided to quit and move on. My question is - would keeping Jamal and MPJ be worth risking that? Why?

I clipped the thread but if you want to see it, LesGrossman and skywalker33 brought up some interesting points.

Perhaps the most important point in my opinion was LesGrossman's concern about "wasting Jokic's prime years.
Skywalker33 also made a couple of significant statements. He indicated he did not believe Malone was a significant factor in our championship and he talked about Murray's impact and/or his lack of impact.

I agree with most of what they said -- all of the most significant things for sure.

My take remains the same. I have never believed in Malone. I stopped posting on it because most fans, casual fans especially -- they didn't want to hear it. We need to give a new coach at least a season to see what he can do with the undeniable talent and some yet unused talent that is already on this team. If we are going to dump Murray and Porter, we will probably only be able to acquire "end of career" players in order to match salaries. While that might work, I will restate one of my previous posts. Those players typically expect to be the #1 option. They also tend to be more stationary on both ends of the court (hey, old guys do that, we all know that). And Jokic's passing only shows up when his teammates are moving.

If we are going to blow up the team and start over; we need to dump Murray and Porter and Jokic for as many draft picks as possible. Then we start over.

I say we keep our talent, try to pick up a veteran like Adams or Brown (see Skywalke33's suggestion) and give a new coach a chance to show what he can do.

LesGrossman wrote:Thank you for elaborating. I have a different view on both max players. I saw MPJ fail in the crucial moments for several seasons now, imho it had nothing to do with this injury. A player with this income and this limited role needs to be absolutely reliable with few off nights. He is the exact opposite. He catches fire in meaningless, no-pressure games and disappears / chokes in the crucial ones. In the end, over the entire season, his numbers will look decent if you dont look into when he showed up and when he didn't.

Same with Jamal. In my opinion he is a low-IQ one dimensional player who only looks good when low percentage hail Maries fall, which admittedly happens more often for him than for the average player. Still he is far, far away from being a legit #2. We need to understand that we are wasting Jokic‘s prime right now. Reminds me of KD on OKC, where Russ kept the ball away from him for so long that he eventually decided to quit and move on. My question is - would keeping Jamal and MPJ be worth risking that? Why?

No problem, and thanks for a decent reply. However, we are both going to have to agree to disagree on a few points. The $$ value is not in dispute here, both players in question are far from living up to their financial obligations, no doubt. But as a previous Take suggested to just dump them for whatever they could get feels very stupid as you couldn't get even close to a good return on either IMO. And as you pointed out, the goal is not to waste Jokic's prime years, wouldn't salary dumps just do that ??

And I do believe you player evaluations are overtly critical, even demeaning, to try and make your points seem more impactful. Jamal isn't a stupid player, you'd notice that if you were a Nuggets fan (and putting the "we" statement doesn't validate that) . Calling him "low-IQ" is like calling Joker a "stat-padder" IMO. I also disagree with disputing him as a legit #2, how many other players can raise their game (when he's focused) to go ballistic to score multiple 50-pt games ?? As for MPJ, he isn't consistent, but when he's on, he can control a game. His career has been riddled with injuries, again, were you a true Nuggets fan that would be apparent.

In the end, dumping both would be an epic fail and cost Jokic several more years off his prime, so not a move I'd advocate. And trying to dump either, you wouldn't get a return equal to or even close to their talent level, so why do it, better to run-it-back and live with the consequences. The true fail was in the GM's and taking a "quality" dump to regain cap space has never guaranteed any kind of success for smaller market teams. If you want to trade either you'll have to wait until their contracts ending is palpitable.

Get KD now. Let's not waste Jokic's prime

An interesting article from Zach Mikash on the exact topic here, worth a read

https://www.denverstiffs.com/whats-next-for-the-denver-nuggets-in-the-2025-offseason/?fbclid=IwY2xjawKt3ONleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBicmlkETFGRXU1bWFlTXoybFd2cndZAR51kznGfjQZ9GDU-kyS0L0PS0fkCHOLjK-FPXlEj6WK7r7tovvp1U_H-VduLQ_aem_AQCroJ5xeny2LIvNzNw_vQ

skywalker33 wrote:

LesGrossman wrote:Thank you for elaborating. I have a different view on both max players. I saw MPJ fail in the crucial moments for several seasons now, imho it had nothing to do with this injury. A player with this income and this limited role needs to be absolutely reliable with few off nights. He is the exact opposite. He catches fire in meaningless, no-pressure games and disappears / chokes in the crucial ones. In the end, over the entire season, his numbers will look decent if you dont look into when he showed up and when he didn't.

Same with Jamal. In my opinion he is a low-IQ one dimensional player who only looks good when low percentage hail Maries fall, which admittedly happens more often for him than for the average player. Still he is far, far away from being a legit #2. We need to understand that we are wasting Jokic‘s prime right now. Reminds me of KD on OKC, where Russ kept the ball away from him for so long that he eventually decided to quit and move on. My question is - would keeping Jamal and MPJ be worth risking that? Why?

No problem, and thanks for a decent reply. However, we are both going to have to agree to disagree on a few points. The $$ value is not in dispute here, both players in question are far from living up to their financial obligations, no doubt. But as a previous Take suggested to just dump them for whatever they could get feels very stupid as you couldn't get even close to a good return on either IMO. And as you pointed out, the goal is not to waste Jokic's prime years, wouldn't salary dumps just do that ??

And I do believe you player evaluations are overtly critical, even demeaning, to try and make your points seem more impactful. Jamal isn't a stupid player, you'd notice that if you were a Nuggets fan (and putting the "we" statement doesn't validate that) . Calling him "low-IQ" is like calling Joker a "stat-padder" IMO. I also disagree with disputing him as a legit #2, how many other players can raise their game (when he's focused) to go ballistic to score multiple 50-pt games ?? As for MPJ, he isn't consistent, but when he's on, he can control a game. His career has been riddled with injuries, again, were you a true Nuggets fan that would be apparent.

In the end, dumping both would be an epic fail and cost Jokic several more years off his prime, so not a move I'd advocate. And trying to dump either, you wouldn't get a return equal to or even close to their talent level, so why do it, better to run-it-back and live with the consequences. The true fail was in the GM's and taking a "quality" dump to regain cap space has never guaranteed any kind of success for smaller market teams. If you want to trade either you'll have to wait until their contracts ending is palpitable.

Hey Skywalker -- What you said! I couldn't have said it better. Then again, I think you, The Joker, and I have been saying that.

There is one thing I don't understand. Some people here are acting like we are doomed. But numbers say it diferently:
Starting lineups in these playoffs

Nuggets sterters in 1st round had +12.4 netrtg
Clippers sterters in 1st round had - 11.1 netrtg

OKC sterters in 1st round had +12.1 netrtg
OKC sterters in WCF +7.5 netrtg

But in the WCSF

Nuggets starting lineup +10.3 netrtg
OKC starting lineup -1.3 netrtg

Nuggets starting lineup had MPj playing with one functional hand and still beat their starters. How OKC beat us?

Nuggets wide open 3 vs OKC

Christian Braun 1.4/4.6, 31.3%
Russell Westbrook 0.9/3.7, 23.1%
Peyton Watson 0.6/1.9, 30.8%

It was by desing, these 3 player shoot 2.9/10.2, 28.4%

Jamal Murray 1.1/2.9, 40.0%
Aaron Gordon 1.4/2.9, 50.0%
Michael Porter Jr. 0.4/1.6, 27.3%
Nikola Jokić 0.4/1.4, 30.0%

or 3.3/8.8, 37.5%

they gave wide open 3s to our worst shooters. They were not willing to give wide open 3s to MPJ even when he was playing with 1 hand. That is what he brings to Nuggets. Spacing. Even when his shots weren't falling no one is leaving him wide open.

Jamal was not great in the 2nd round just
20.7/4.4/4.6 shooting 41%/31%/87%

Jalen Williams played better defense, but averaged
17.6/5.4/6.0 shooting 38%/24%/81%

we have good enough starting 5. We saw it in 2023 and in this playoffs vs Clippers and OKC. Problem was Hunter Tyson, Dario Saric, Jalen Pickett, Zeke Nnaji, DeAndre Jordan, Vlatko Cancar, Julian Strawther were unplayable and Holmes was lost for season.

I hope Saric and Westbrook will pick their options because they become expiring contracts easy to trade.

Can we improve our bench, do we have assets? Hell yes. Unprotected 2031 1st is valuable. Pack it with Nnaji and you can get good bench player. Pack it with Hunter Tyson, Dario Saric, Jalen Pickett, Russel Westbrook - expiring contracts, most sought after assets in the NBA these days, and you can get 2 good bench players.

Here is one trade we can do. Player who was mentioned here a lot had bad playoffs, his value is lowest, right time to jump in

Nuggets trade Nnaji, Dario Saric, Strawther, 2026 (or 2028/2030) 1st rd pick swap
Nuggets recive Bogdan Bogdanovic

Sign Bruce B, min contract center better than DJ. Here are candidats FOs - Brook Lopez, Clint Capela, Steven Adams, Marvin Bagley, Larry Nance Jr, Chris Boucher, Al Horford, Kevon Looney, Precious Achiuwa, Paul Reed, Mason Plumlee, Daniel Theis, Mo Bamba, Jericho Sims, Guerschon Yabusele, Bismack Biyombo. Some are bad, some will cost to much, but we need 1.

Murray/Braun/MPJ/AG/Jokic
Westbrook/Bruce B/Bogi/Watson/C
Pickett/Tyson/Holmes/PJ Hall

...and go for championship if healthy

Any interest in a Bruce Brown s&t for Braun or Strawther?