Will the Real Carmelo Anthony please stand up.

[sportsmikegm23]

I want to preface this saying I am not an AI apologist or a Melo hater....

I want Melo to be the face of the Nuggets franchise for years to come and I think he will be, yes he is only 23 and can make improvements to his game he has and generally does...but to not understand how to attack the double teams after being double teamed so much is bothersome, and the frustration he displays is apparent and the other team. they know if they keep doubling him...he can't play his game and can't contribute much when he's not scoring. He has to be more than a scorer, he has to have an all around game and he can't allow the double team to get him all riled. He's smart enough to get this all figured out, but if he doesn't soon, the Nuggets have no chance at making the playoffs.

Please don't blame AI for his "regression", Melo has always had a big problem with double teams. AI has helped him not be doubled nearly as much. Yes AI has his faults as well...but my point is to be a franchise player and lead your team, you have to figure out different ways to contribute when you are the other team is focused on you defensively and trying to frustrate you.

[airchibundo507]

I want to preface this saying I am not an AI apologist or a Melo hater....

I want Melo to be the face of the Nuggets franchise for years to come and I think he will be, yes he is only 23 and can make improvements to his game he has and generally does...but to not understand how to attack the double teams after being double teamed so much is bothersome, and the frustration he displays is apparent and the other team. they know if they keep doubling him...he can't play his game and can't contribute much when he's not scoring. He has to be more than a scorer, he has to have an all around game and he can't allow the double team to get him all riled. He's smart enough to get this all figured out, but if he doesn't soon, the Nuggets have no chance at making the playoffs.

Please don't blame AI for his "regression", Melo has always had a big problem with double teams. AI has helped him not be doubled nearly as much. Yes AI has his faults as well...but my point is to be a franchise player and lead your team, you have to figure out different ways to contribute when you are the other team is focused on you defensively and trying to frustrate you.

even with his flaws...melo is still a superstar player.

sure...he struggles with the double team. but his teammates don't help him out with this problem. he has no shooters on his team...which means no spacing at all. few nuggets make cuts to the basket whenever melo is double teamed...make it harder for him to find the open man.

we brought iverson to denver for one reason: to take the defensive pressure off of melo while providing a consistent secondary offensive option. that plan backfired. iverson has in no way taken any defensive pressure off of melo. melo is still seeing double teams every game from every team...while iverson is "living it up" in single coverage. even worse is that iverson is so cocky and selfish that he stagnates are offense and keeps the ball away from our first option.

with the melo-AI pick-and-roll...AI has never fed melo (regardless of whether or not melo is a good screener. miller ALWAYS fed melo the ball off the screen and roll). while watching the games...I see iverson dribbling at the top of the key...melo open on the side waiting to get the ball for his own iso...and iverson passing the ball to the opposite side of the court (or keeping the ball for himself).

he is a shot clock vacuum. he is a selfish ballhog.

[Ballin02]

-= original quote snipped =-



even with his flaws...melo is still a superstar player.

sure...he struggles with the double team. but his teammates don't help him out with this problem. he has no shooters on his team...which means no spacing at all. few nuggets make cuts to the basket whenever melo is double teamed...make it harder for him to find the open man.

we brought iverson to denver for one reason: to take the defensive pressure off of melo while providing a consistent secondary offensive option. that plan backfired. iverson has in no way taken any defensive pressure off of melo. melo is still seeing double teams every game from every team...while iverson is "living it up" in single coverage. even worse is that iverson is so cocky and selfish that he stagnates are offense and keeps the ball away from our first option.

with the melo-AI pick-and-roll...AI has never fed melo (regardless of whether or not melo is a good screener. miller ALWAYS fed melo the ball off the screen and roll). while watching the games...I see iverson dribbling at the top of the key...melo open on the side waiting to get the ball for his own iso...and iverson passing the ball to the opposite side of the court (or keeping the ball for himself).

he is a shot clock vacuum. he is a selfish ballhog.

^^ Some of you keep talking about the same stuff. Iverson plays on the complete opposite side of Carmelo Anthony, which means he can not help him in getting double teamed (which Melo does not get at all times the way you are trying to put it). Iverson still gets double/triple team just as much as a result of playing at the opposite end of the floor as Melo. So they cannot help eachother out as much as i'm sure they might have wished. This Iverson "living it up in single coverage" that you're talking about...what games are you watching? I have yet to see one game where Iverson hasn't been doubled. Why? Because regardless if he is playing next to Melo or not, teams still have to respect him for being one of the best players in the league and arguably the best one on one player in the league.

Guys like Iverson, Kobe and Lebron deal with double teams better then Melo because they move around and don't wait for them to come to them and also don't get as frustrated as easily. Melo gets double teamed in the post where he is most dangerous....thats just commen sense. And teams double Melo becuase A.) They know theres a good chance he won't pass out of the double team get frustrated and try to shoot the ball (more often then not) and B.) He will wait for the help on defense instead of just taking advantage of his man (which he can). The team benefits off of the defensive pressure on Melo the same way they benfit off of Iverson when he drives the lane and the defensive collapses and it all of a sudden becomes 5-on-1. So give it a rest already.

"Sportsmikegm23" said this is NOT about AI, yet your still in here making it about that guy. Quit making excuses. If Melo is not a good screener, then he is just not a good screener (which may be due a little to Coaching) and people don't have any business feeding him the ball just for him to turn it over on a pick and roll...thats another waisted possesion. And as far as Iverson not passing the ball to Melo...you're lying and just seeing what you want to see. As a teammate his job is to try to get everyone involved and pass everyone the ball...not just Melo. I understand that you are a fan of Carmelo, but some of your comments just sound delusional.

[Ballin02]

To add to this, I don't know who the real Carmelo is...but the excuses are starting to get old now. Carmelo is young, yes, but players that are younger like Lebron, CP3 and even Brandon Roy seem light years ahead of Carmelo when it comes to elivating their game and leadership. In one year or so Carmelo could be considered a vet. The time is now, and if not now, it may never come. I wish the best for him though and hope he can figure it out, but at this point i'm not even sure. I came acrossed an article that goes along with this post about Carmelo's leadership. Here is what an UNBIAS person has to say about Melo.....

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1233 ... elo-090308

[airchibundo507]

[quote="Ballin02"][/quote]

iverson plays on the opposite side of carmelo anthony? that is the weakest argument I have ever seen. melo rotates from side-to-side whenever posting up...looking for a pass from the perimeter. not to mention AI commonly dribbles the metal ball around the entire defense with his magnetic hands. making an excuse like one player plays on the opposite side of another is weak. they're not statues on the court.

take yesterday's game for example. a defense cannot double team two scorers at the same time (until they want to be severely burned). the spurs usually match us up by double teaming melo and putting their best perimeter defender on iverson. smith played terrific on offense and popovich put bowen on smith. meaning that iverson got to play the weaker spurs defenders (parker, finley, stoudamire, etc.) in single coverage. that's why he was so efficient in the first 3 quarters. he can thank melo and smith for that.

guys like kobe and lebron are have guard-like handling and are slashers.

melo is a post-up player.

it's not hard to see that it is easier to double a player in a paint than a person who can dribble around on the perimeter.

the pick-and-roll is one of the most dangerous offensive executions in the game of basketball. no matter how bad of a screener is...that doesn't mean AI can't pass melo the ball once a frikkin game. miller fed melo all the time off the screen and roll. AI rarely does it.

[airchibundo507]

To add to this, I don't know who the real Carmelo is...but the excuses are starting to get old now. Carmelo is young, yes, but players that are younger like Lebron, CP3 and even Brandon Roy seem light years ahead of Carmelo when it comes to elivating their game and leadership. In one year or so Carmelo could be considered a vet. The time is now, and if not now, it may never come. I wish the best for him though and hope he can figure it out, but at this point i'm not even sure. I came acrossed an article that goes along with this post about Carmelo's leadership. Here is what an UNBIAS person has to say about Melo.....

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1233 ... elo-090308

that article lost all credibility when it stated that bosh is a better leader than carmelo. what exactly has bosh done to be considered a leader?

prior to AI's arrival...melo was finally starting to get it. at the start of the 06-07 season he had emerged as the nugget's "captain"..the go-to-guy...the leader.

AI's arrival changed all that.

AI came in as a veteran superstar...he grabbed the reigns from melo and he won't let go. he plays hard every night...I'll agree...but AI lacks in leadership from my opinion. he doesn't make his teammates better. he dominates and pounds the ball.

[Ballin02]

[quote="airchibundo507"][/quote]



^^ Okay you're right...this is all Iversons fault and what other people see in Melo is just a delusion. Take AI off the team (hopefully), let Melo have his team completely back and we will see a brand new Melo that will emerge as the greatest leaders the league has ever seen. Now are you happy?

The commen misconception that Iverson doesn't make people around him better is overrated. It seems that almost all the players on the Nuggets this year are having career seasons, check the stats. I'm not sure if it is due to Iversons presense, or just their natural progression, but its true. It also seems that Iverson has rubbed off on alot of the players as far as playing hard everynight. Hell even JR Smith is stepping his game up. So for some of you people to act as if he is sucking the life out of that team is way over the top. At this point there are very few excuses for why Melo seems to only show up when he wants to (like if he is playing against Lebron on National T.V or something).

And no, that article seems to be pretty much dead on. If you disagree with Chris Bosh, then fine thats for you to debate, but can't honastly sit back and say that the person writing that article did not have great points.

[big123]

This team is wacked. You got 4 players still maturing and developing (Melo, JR, LK and Nene). 3 older players playing to win a chip (AI, K-Mart and Camby. 1 player who starts who shouldn't even be in the NBA (Carter). And a coach who doesn't know the meaning of chemistry and doesn't care half the time. It's a recipe for false and undeserving hope.

[EMB6903]

I want to preface this saying I am not an AI apologist or a Melo hater....

I want Melo to be the face of the Nuggets franchise for years to come and I think he will be, yes he is only 23 and can make improvements to his game he has and generally does...but to not understand how to attack the double teams after being double teamed so much is bothersome, and the frustration he displays is apparent and the other team. they know if they keep doubling him...he can't play his game and can't contribute much when he's not scoring. He has to be more than a scorer, he has to have an all around game and he can't allow the double team to get him all riled. He's smart enough to get this all figured out, but if he doesn't soon, the Nuggets have no chance at making the playoffs.

Please don't blame AI for his "regression", Melo has always had a big problem with double teams. AI has helped him not be doubled nearly as much. Yes AI has his faults as well...but my point is to be a franchise player and lead your team, you have to figure out different ways to contribute when you are the other team is focused on you defensively and trying to frustrate you.

actually melo has learned to recognize the open man for the past year now, the thing is when melo gets doubled, the 4 players are doing nothing but standing around, of course it looks bad on melo when he gets doubled and turns the ball over but you cant do anything about that when you have 4 other players standing around watching the whole game. anytime you get a cutter to the hoop melo usually finds him when hes facing the double, Najera is the only player on the nuggets who will consistantly cut to the hoop though.

[Ballin02]

Oh and as far as the double team situation goes, i'm over it. Some of you sit around talking about double teams as if it is a prize to get them. Players like Iverson, Kobe and whoever else have been seeing double/triple teams their entire careers...its nothing new to them. I'm sure they would rather not have them, but it is what it is. Post players like Melo (Duncan, KG, ect.) have been seeing double teams their entire careers, it is nothing new, and won't stop completely simply because Melo and AI are playing on the same team. It will cut them down some...but that is about it. Again, that is just commen sense. More consistant outside shooters will help spread the floor even more. JR has been doing great by the way.

And again, other teams will double team Melo, especially in crucial situations, because they know he gets frustrated easily... and more often then not will result into what we saw lastnight. It's not a good thing teams know that about Carmelo. At this point I would think he would have figured out how to deal with them better...but I guess not. I'll say again that hopefully he will learn sooner then later. This section is about CARMELO and his supposed leadership skills...not to bash him or Iverson as mentioned. It is hard to have civilized conversations in these forums becuase of all the finger pointing that goes on at all times.... some rightfully and some that are just so way off its not even funny. At this point, no one is stopping Carmelo from being a true leader but Melo.

[EMB6903]

Melo hasnt been getting doubled less since AI has been here, AI hasnt helped in that area at all, Im a big fan of both of these players but anybody who watches the nuggets every game knows AI is absolutely killing Melo's game.

[Ballin02]

Melo hasnt been getting doubled less since AI has been here, AI hasnt helped in that area at all, Im a big fan of both of these players but anybody who watches the nuggets every game knows AI is absolutely killing Melo's game.

^^ And Iverson hasn't gotten doubled less as well (certainly not the way some of you are making it), so again they have not helped eachother out like i'm sure they may have wished, like I already said. How is Iverson killing Melos game again? Melos stats are up. Melo averages more possessions then anyone on that team. So how has he killed his game, i'm confused?

If Iverson is supposidly "killing Melo's game", then he needs to leave, its that simple. But it still won't resolve what seems to be more then obvious to everyone else except for bias fans, and that is that Carmelo probably will never be the true leader that Nuggets fans want him to be. He just doesn't seem to have that in him. And there is nothing wrong with that, but quit making excuses and blaming everything and everyone under the moon because of it.

[Varsity878]

I think too many people are trying to equate heart and passion with leadership. And thats not necessarily the case in all situations. Are they qualities you would like your "leader" to have? Sure, I'll give you that. But just a person leaves their game on the floor night in, night out doesn't make them a leader.

Thats not to justify or absolve Carmelo from some of the decisions he makes night in, night out. I think even your No. 1 Carmelo Anthony fan would admit that he gets frustrated easily and sometimes lags up the court when things don't go his way. But before I would push the "panic" button on a 23 year old 2-time All-star, I think a better question to ask is has Carmelo Anthony improved as a player? And without question, he has. We all know from an offensive standpoint, he is one of the most talented offensive players in the NBA. But over the last 3 seasons, he has became a better rebounder, better passer and with the addition of AI, has shown a willingness to defer (something many people questioned if he was capable of doing). Again, that doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve in other areas. But I think its a little ridiculous to question a 23 year old on leadership when he has effectively led the Nuggets to 4 consecutive playoff appearances with the possibility of 5 in 5 years. Not to mention he carried a Syracuse team to a national title as a freshman.

And the comparison to Chris Paul, Brandon Roy and Chris Bosh is laughable in my opinion. I know everyone is on the CP3 bandwagon but, where has Chris Paul carried New Orleans to? Right now only 5 and 1/2 games in front of the Nuggets. Brandon Roy? 4 and 1/2 games behind the Nuggets. And Chris Bosh? If Toronto was in the West, they would be out the playoffs and behind the Nuggets. And for the most part, none of those teams will probably make it out the first round (depending on the matchups). Clearly Wade gets a pass because he won a ring but, maybe Im the only one who has noticed he played on a team that currently has 11 wins. Right now out of the 5 players the article mentioned (Paul, Roy, Bosh, Wade and LBJ), the only one I would swap Carmelo for is LBJ. Maybe Paul because he is a young premier point guard and those are hard to find. But at best if you swap the rest of them, I can see minimal if any improvement in the Nuggets record.

Again, thats not to say Carmelo doesn't need to improve or become a better player. He does. But I think its way to early to throw him to the fire.

[big123]

Melo hasnt been getting doubled less since AI has been here, AI hasnt helped in that area at all, Im a big fan of both of these players but anybody who watches the nuggets every game knows AI is absolutely killing Melo's game.

This has been discussed why he gets doubled so much in this entire thread lol. Nothing AI can do when Melo waits for it and the much dumber player in them.

AI gets doubled alot as well, but he's quick, knows how to handle them and doesn't wait for them. It's so good that everyone here doesn't even see it. Melo is so bad that everyone sees it clearly.

[big123]

Melo hasnt been getting doubled less since AI has been here, AI hasnt helped in that area at all, Im a big fan of both of these players but anybody who watches the nuggets every game knows AI is absolutely killing Melo's game.

AI is here to win a title with this team, not waste the rest of his career helping grow and polish Melo's, JR and LK's game. Maybe the coach is responsible, but maybe the 3 just aren't ready yet.

[stos3]

Melo hasnt been getting doubled less since AI has been here, AI hasnt helped in that area at all, Im a big fan of both of these players but anybody who watches the nuggets every game knows AI is absolutely killing Melo's game.

I still think this Melo-AI thing can work. I still insist, rather adamantly, that with a better coach with a plan to make these two play off of each other would make this thing work.

[Ballin02]

I think too many people are trying to equate heart and passion with leadership. And thats not necessarily the case in all situations. Are they qualities you would like your "leader" to have? Sure, I'll give you that. But just a person leaves their game on the floor night in, night out doesn't make them a leader.

Thats not to justify or absolve Carmelo from some of the decisions he makes night in, night out. I think even your No. 1 Carmelo Anthony fan would admit that he gets frustrated easily and sometimes lags up the court when things don't go his way. But before I would push the "panic" button on a 23 year old 2-time All-star, I think a better question to ask is has Carmelo Anthony improved as a player? And without question, he has. We all know from an offensive standpoint, he is one of the most talented offensive players in the NBA. But over the last 3 seasons, he has became a better rebounder, better passer and with the addition of AI, has shown a willingness to defer (something many people questioned if he was capable of doing). Again, that doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve in other areas. But I think its a little ridiculous to question a 23 year old on leadership when he has effectively led the Nuggets to 4 consecutive playoff appearances with the possibility of 5 in 5 years. Not to mention he carried a Syracuse team to a national title as a freshman.

And the comparison to Chris Paul, Brandon Roy and Chris Bosh is laughable in my opinion. I know everyone is on the CP3 bandwagon but, where has Chris Paul carried New Orleans to? Right now only 5 and 1/2 games in front of the Nuggets. Brandon Roy? 4 and 1/2 games behind the Nuggets. And Chris Bosh? If Toronto was in the West, they would be out the playoffs and behind the Nuggets. And for the most part, none of those teams will probably make it out the first round (depending on the matchups). Clearly Wade gets a pass because he won a ring but, maybe Im the only one who has noticed he played on a team that currently has 11 wins. Right now out of the 5 players the article mentioned (Paul, Roy, Bosh, Wade and LBJ), the only one I would swap Carmelo for is LBJ. Maybe Paul because he is a young premier point guard and those are hard to find. But at best if you swap the rest of them, I can see minimal if any improvement in the Nuggets record.

Again, thats not to say Carmelo doesn't need to improve or become a better player. He does. But I think its way to early to throw him to the fire.

^^ When that article compared Melo to players like CP3 and/or Brandon Roy and or Chris Bosh...they were not just talking about the win colum. They were talking about the effect those players have on their teams as a whole. And they were not talking about trading Melo for any of those players. They were talking about those players ability to keep their head in a lot of situations no matter how frustrating they may be (its fine every now and then but not as much as Melo seems to), and figuring out how to get involved to try to help their team win if their shot isn't falling. That is what they were talking about. If you never seen the Nuggets play in your life, you can watch the team and still tell who the Nuggets leader is and who they play off of.

I seen someone say somewhere that people lead teams in different ways. This is true. KG is more of a vocal leader, where as Iverson is more of a lead by example type of guy and would rather people follow his lead and play hard more then anything else. Make mistakes, fine, but give effort. Lebron and Kobe lead the same way as Iverson. All are leaders in their own way though, and possess a special quality that seperates them from everyone else. And Melo seems to have niether quality, which is also fine... but i'm tired of seeing people make excuses and blame individuals for this and equally tired of watching Melo talk about being a leader when its more then obvious he isn't one (yet). A good player with potential. But that is about it. Yes, I hope he develops to his full ability, but no, I don't agree with the excuses people are giving him as to why he hasn't. I think people should just let that guy play the game without all the pressure, because it is more then obvious it is starting to get to him.

[Ballin02]

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I still think this Melo-AI thing can work. I still insist, rather adamantly, that with a better coach with a plan to make these two play off of each other would make this thing work.

Now that, I agree with.

[MELO4MVP]

Carmelo gets doubled every possession and A.I. only multiple defenders when he drives and the d collapse, that happens with every player that drives the lane. You look at last night's game and say "Carmelo played bad", but he really didn't. It just wasn't much he can do. The only thing he did bad last night was over help on a driving player which led to open shots for Bowen and Finley. On offense he did all he can. He made 8 out of 15 shots in 40 minutes, got to the hole, but couldn't get any calls, and got doubled teamed each possession. He was passing out, but the offense wasn't moving so it led to nothing. He did have 4 assist and 2 turnovers so it wasn't like he wasn't trying. Fact is, Carmelo doesn't get superstar calls, but he sees superstar defense every game. I honestly wouldn't mind A.I. turning into the old A.I. because as of right now, teams aren't really worrying about A.I. They look at it as "stop Carmelo, contain everyone else" and when you look at what San Antonio did and Utah did, that gameplan works

[Reks]

Sometimes when I read some of these posts I just wish Allen Iverson got traded. Just to see what happens to the Nuggets.

If they do better, then hey thats great.
But if they do the same or worse, I'd love to see the bull**** excuses you melo homers and AI haters could come up with. I could imagine it.

"well, uhh, melo only got 30 shots because JR shot 6 3 pointers. So what if he made them all I dont care. Just give the ball to melo like when dre miller was here."