I would trade Melo because...

[SnakefromHell]

Watching Manu play in the playoffs really makes me think why can't Melo play with the same intensity, desire to win?

- Melo shouldn't "have" to pull down 9 rebounds a game just because the critics are saying he's not rebounding enough.
- He shouldn't have to box out or play defense just because the critics are saying he's not boxing out/ playing D.
- He shouldn't have to score 30 pts a game because he thinks he can do it.

My point is he should pull down 9 rpg, box out, play D, score 30 ppg because that's what it takes to win. Everytime you box out it has to be because you want to win, everytime you push and shove opponents to get a rebound it's because you want to win not because you want to get that extra rebound to appear on the stat sheet and silence the critics because they're saying you can't rebound, everytime you set a hard screen and get punished with an elbow, it's because you want to win, everytime you play hard-nosed D on the other end, getting bumps, physical, is because you want to win, not because you want to "prove" you can play D and be physical.

---

It appears to me, at least so far, Melo does all the things he's done so far in his five years in the L because he thinks it's his "part" and that should contribute to winning. If it's not enough, the questions should go elsewhere not him. It's like, "let me score 30 pts and that should get us a W, if it doesn't don't point at me"...

While a player with desire to win would say, "I think it's time for me to score 30 because they're giving me looks, they're doubling on my teammate. The points that I put on the board right now in this quarter should give us real boost and edge over the opponents."

---

Seriously, it has to come from the players.

This is why when the going gets tough, when the opponents buckle down on D, when the game clock is winding down and scores are tight, the pressure rises, the player with a winning mentality knows exactly how to react to the situation. Instead of letting the moment catch him, he's two-three steps ahead of the pressure. He embraces it because he loves it and believes he can get the job done instead of accepting the "responsibility" because if he doesn't he'll get criticized.

---

If I was the GM, I'd keep Melo until the next season starts, then really monitor if he has come with desire to win. Melo at Syracuse and his NBA rookie year was Melo with a winning attitude. That mentality evaporated somehow from 2nd year and on. He's become content with his talent...

If he still hasn't come up with a winning mentality and doesn't show he wants to win, let's ship him at the trade deadline before his value plummets and before he inevitably becomes a Stephon Marbury, a player who knows how to put numbers but doesn't understand what the numbers mean except that they make him a household name. A winning player understands "numbers" are just means to get his team Ws... they mean nothing else. Accolades and personal achievements should be something on the side, nice extras... not the priority.

---

If Melo wants to win, there's no way he'll be lazy on defense, taking contested shots, going to the teeth of the defense... etc

If he really, badly wants to win, there's no way he plays like he's half sleeping most of the time. There'd be that extra effort that comes naturally from him... but so far, we're not seeing it except the Carmelo at Syracuse and his NBA rookie year.

[EMB6903]

atleast put this nonsense in the trade thread.

[SnakefromHell]

^This is not a trade scenario thread... this is a reason why some want Nuggets to trade him.

It's not nonsense... laziness is not in a winner's book.

[pickaxe]

I think it's just part of Melo's youth and inexperience....he doesn't know the limits of his other abilities.....he was given a chance 2 seasons ago to push the limits on his point scoring and ended up averaging around 30 ppg. He realizes there's a shift this season and he starts rebounding and assisting in certain games, but he realizes he still needs to score 25 + ppg and starts telling himself he can't do everything.

He's got to just settle into that mentality that he can score, rebound, pass, do whatever it is he needs to do to help win a game however the totals may not end up the same after every game.

The important part is there's a threat he can score 30, rebound 10, pass 5+ and steal a couple every game. That's in the opponent's mind and Melo is then free to apply himself anywhere he needs to on the court for that particular game.

The only time any player ever really questions his stats and contributions is when there are unneccesary losses or losses because of lack of effort - it is then when they look back and say "what could I have done better?" - and some guys just listen to the media call them out "oh he don't rebound enough" then the guy spends 75% of his time rebounding even in games when it was not as important and when we had Camby to help out there.

He had the right mentality to switch up and focus to rebounding....the question is you have to be ready to rebound and box out not just steal rebounds all the time. You got Melo, Martin, Camby.....all 4 should be READY to rebound but not necessarily worry about taking every one.

If Camby grabs 16 rebounds and Melo 5, and that frees up Melo to score 30.....go for the 30 and let Camby do his job. If Camby had a messed up knee and needs help rebounding.....help him and split it 10 reb/10 reb.

[Nuggetsfanduh98]

^This is not a trade scenario thread... this is a reason why some want Nuggets to trade him.

It's not nonsense... laziness is not in a winner's book.

Can I trade you to the grizzles board for a coach and a ballboy to be named later?

[Nutty Nats Fan]

"I would trade Melo because.. I am a moron"

Why type so much, when it would have been so much easier to just write the above? Same thing, basically.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

^This is not a trade scenario thread... this is a reason why some want Nuggets to trade him.

It's not nonsense... laziness is not in a winner's book.

And you are **** (Please Use More Appropriate Word) if you think Melo is lazy.

Melo shouldn't "have" to pull down 9 rebounds a game just because the critics are saying he's not rebounding enough.

Who the **** claimed that he has too?

He started pulling down more boards, because Karl told him to stop going out on the fast break (finally), and Melo was slumping, so was helping the team in other ways. By banging with bigger bodies to grab rebounds. Not because Charles Barkley is a loud mouth, but because Karl finally stopped asking him to run and to help the team.

That is not lazy. And only a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) thinks he started rebounding because Charles was crying about it.

[SnakefromHell]

That desire and hunger to win are what drive great players...

Instead of finding reasons to drive yourself every game, it should be sourced to winning.

If a player wants to win every game he plays, he wouldn't have to worry about finding reasons to motivate himself... it's all there in the game. When the game requires him to give more, he's already prepared because he's already locked on to the goal: W.

Players like KG, Kobe, Manu, LeBron... they never worry about motivation, because winning is the ultimate motivation. It drives them. But if you don't have the desire to win, then you'll see inconsistent productions because some days you just don't feel like going to work...

[SnakefromHell]

-= original quote snipped =-


And you are **** (Please Use More Appropriate Word) if you think Melo is lazy.

He's not lazy on defense? Yeah right...

[Nutty Nats Fan]

But if you don't have the desire to win, then you'll see inconsistent productions

I guess the Spurs, Pistons, and Celtics don't want to win. They haven't exactly been consistent in the playoffs.

Freaking joke you are.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

-= original quote snipped =-



He's not lazy on defense? Yeah right...

Miss the rest of the edit?

And I said you are f'ing (Please Use More Appropriate Word) if you think he is lazy. I didn't say lazy on defense. You come off like Melo doesn't want to win and is lazy. Which is false and so wrong you have to be a troll, because I can't see how anyone can be as (Please Use More Appropriate Word) as you are.

[airchibundo507]

moderators...how long will it take for snake to be banned?

his trolling is on the same level as MeloMVP, although MVP actually presented some sort of logic with his arguments.

[SnakefromHell]

How am I trolling you stupid ****? You Melo lovers should go the hell away because you're not looking for the team's best interest but to defend Melo even when he's lazy in the playoffs.

You keep defending Melo like it's okay he didn't step up in the playoffs...

[Teens On Acid]

you just don't get it do you. are you honestly THAT ignorant.
without Melo on this team, there would be NO playoffs.
Melo is the key player on this team. the past is the past and we can only look to the future. pretty much everyone here knows what kind of player Melo is, can be and has been and i'd find it difficult to believe any Denver fan would want to trade away Melo BEFORE Ai unless an incredible deal came along.

remember, the body doesn't respond without the brain.
the 'brain' of our team, the Denver Nuggets, has failed to get us past the first round. it's not rocket science to figure out who should go and who the organisation should be building the team around.

TEAMUSA for example..quality team mates who know their roles guided by a quality coach - Melo thrives. is without a doubt one of the best players in the world.

but when he's playing NBA ball for George Karl with team mates like 'Me First' Iverson, the offensive force that is Marcus Camby and Anthony (what game are we playing again) Carter....well...you get the idea.

[eathy]

That desire and hunger to win are what drive great players...

Instead of finding reasons to drive yourself every game, it should be sourced to winning.

If a player wants to win every game he plays, he wouldn't have to worry about finding reasons to motivate himself... it's all there in the game. When the game requires him to give more, he's already prepared because he's already locked on to the goal: W.

Players like KG, Kobe, Manu, LeBron... they never worry about motivation, because winning is the ultimate motivation. It drives them. But if you don't have the desire to win, then you'll see inconsistent productions because some days you just don't feel like going to work...

melo is still young.

kg, kobe, and manu are all experienced players.

lebron is in the east conference... and had arguably one of the easiest runs to the finals last season beating a hapless wizards and nets, and just sneaking over detroit, and then getting completely dismantled by the spurs.

[SnakefromHell]

you just don't get it do you. are you honestly THAT ignorant.
without Melo on this team, there would be NO playoffs.
Melo is the key player on this team. the past is the past and we can only look to the future. pretty much everyone here knows what kind of player Melo is, can be and has been and i'd find it difficult to believe any Denver fan would want to trade away Melo BEFORE Ai unless an incredible deal came along.

remember, the body doesn't respond without the brain.
the 'brain' of our team, the Denver Nuggets, has failed to get us past the first round. it's not rocket science to figure out who should go and who the organisation should be building the team around.

TEAMUSA for example..quality team mates who know their roles guided by a quality coach - Melo thrives. is without a doubt one of the best players in the world.

but when he's playing NBA ball for George Karl with team mates like 'Me First' Iverson, the offensive force that is Marcus Camby and Anthony (what game are we playing again) Carter....well...you get the idea.

Look, good coaching or bad coaching is no excuse to constantly show up in the game as if he was just waken up in the middle of his sleep dragged to the court to play basketball. It's his attitude that's concerning... if he doesn't want to play, don't play. Where's the intensity? Where's the energy? Where's the focus and desire to win?

Like I said, if Melo had all these, we wouldn't talk about his laziness... I don't have gains by hating Melo at all... but it's hard not to because I want the team to win. And when you are in front of TV, cheering and yelling for the team to win, and there's supposedly the franchise player giving just half-half effort... you're gonna get infuriated, or is he getting a pass because he's the franchise?

Am I missing something here? I understand trading Melo and getting equal value is hard... probably impossible unless a draft pick/ young player traded to us turns to be a complete gem. But keeping Melo and having him play half-half in his fifth year is not good indication either. Maybe he wants to play for the Knicks, closer to his hometown, so he can finally give full effort on both ends every second he's on the floor.

I don't know about you... if you're a Melo fan it's hard to argue because you'll never see my point. But if you're a Nugget fan, it's hard to ignore the fact you have a player who's not committed to winning. If he's really committed to winning, there's NO WAY, EVER EVER he's gonna show up like he was half sleeping. People are pumped and energetic, and here we have a franchise player acting somber like he's drinking beer instead of gatorade on the bench.

---

Again, it's hard to find equal value for Melo, I acknowledge that... but keeping Melo and having him play half-half for the next 5-10 years will NOT get this team anywhere.

I still want to find someone here who'd admit they got infuriated when a player gives 50% effort... so you don't want to play for the Nuggets? You don't want to get us wins? Get the **** ouT!!!

[SnakefromHell]

-= original quote snipped =-



melo is still young.

kg, kobe, and manu are all experienced players.

lebron is in the east conference... and had arguably one of the easiest runs to the finals last season beating a hapless wizards and nets, and just sneaking over detroit, and then getting completely dismantled by the spurs.

That young excuse again...

And "the desire to win" is instilled naturally in a player since he learns to be competitive. Not wanting to lose in a video game, cards game, not wanting to lose out on a girl (I know it sounds BS, but then again, who doesn't hate to lose out on a girl?), and then basketball.

It's his fifth year, I think it's pretty obvious it will never be there unless he undergoes some MAJOR therapy where the winning wires in his brain are re-connected... and his competitive spirit

Playing in the East, Europe, Asia or Canada, it doesn't matter... you have to be competitive. LeBron is competitive, that's why although he's not a better defender than Melo, his presence on the defensive end is 10000X than Melo because he plays with effort and plays it the right way. They're driven by his mentality to want to win.

When you see Melo play, can you say he's competitive? Play with passion and energy? Consistently? I watch probably 70+ Nugget games this season and I have to say maybe once in every 5 games Melo plays that makes me think "this is the player that I wanna see... this is the player I want the Nuggets keep and hope he never demand a trade"...

He can go for a full game, all out, energy, hustle, defense, rebounding... that's the best Melo... few would dispute he's not a top 4-5 player in the L.

But you can't have him show up the next game like he doesn't want to play... knowing our team's success depends on him as much as it does... it's like throwing the team, the fans, the organization under the bus.

Pretend you own a business, and your employee shows up all energetic one day... and half-half the next day and the rest of the week... your business suffers. Would you be pleased? No. Maybe he's super-skilled and super-smart, but you want the right effort, right attitude every day. Then you know your business is going on the right track...

[sportsmikegm23]

That desire and hunger to win are what drive great players...

Instead of finding reasons to drive yourself every game, it should be sourced to winning.

If a player wants to win every game he plays, he wouldn't have to worry about finding reasons to motivate himself... it's all there in the game. When the game requires him to give more, he's already prepared because he's already locked on to the goal: W.

Players like KG, Kobe, Manu, LeBron... they never worry about motivation, because winning is the ultimate motivation. It drives them. But if you don't have the desire to win, then you'll see inconsistent productions because some days you just don't feel like going to work...

First of all... you don't need Melo to be a 1st team defensive player...it would be a huge bonus...you just need him to focus and play solid defense... secondly, if you make the NBA, you aren't "lazy"... your focus is not in that area. Carmelo needs to focus on being better defensive, he needs to work on that part of his game, and after losing his 5th straight 1st round playoff series and getting alot of criticism, I would think he would be very motivated to get better on that end of the floor, he does have the talent. Snake, you don't take a team your 1st year in the league from 17-65 to the playoffs without the desire to win.

Yes, he must improve on his game, he must be more mature, play more team oriented basketball, and he must become a leader... It's up to Melo this year and it's up to the Nuggets organization to make sure he's accountable for his actions. Just remember, before this year, Kobe couldn't make it out of the 1st round with Phil Jackson as his coach. He got some leadership around him (Derek Fisher) Kobe started trusting some...Bynum and some other started playing well getting confidence and then stole Gasol and they are almost in the finals. By no means am I saying the Nuggets with this roster will get into the finals, but my point even super competitors like Kobe or Manu have to buy into the team in all aspects to make the team winners and to get out of the 1st round.

Trading Melo for crap is not a solution that will help this franchise. You'd have to get an enormous offer, and I don't think anyone will offer 4 or 5 players for him (quality players).

Edit: I really think your thought on him showing up 1 time out of 5 games is ridiculous. Yes there were games he moped, there were games that he didn't show as much passion as some of us think he should, but he played alot harder than you give him credit for.

Your boy Manu scored 7 points 6 assists and 1 rebound in game 4 in the WCF, do you think he didn't "show up"? I say he probably had a bad game and Melo in 82 games (just like Manu and Kobe etc) have a number of bad games during the season... Yes, he needs to be get better and he has the talent to improve... You are entitled to your opinion and we probably will always disagree.... Melo can be a top 5 player, we have seen the talent he just needs to be consistent... Listen, you might be proven right and others say you are right... I want to see one more year unless they get great value for him. Your opinion of his is not very high, I think he's a better player than you give him credit for.

[SnakefromHell]

^First of all I never demand Melo to be a defensive team player... all I want from him is he plays like he wants to win. Like he has a goal, to get a win every game.

If he can say "I want to win" to himself every 15 seconds when he's on the floor, I guarantee he will never ever mop again and will play with much better effort. I don't know what he's thinking when he is not into a game but it has to be other than basketball.

And I already said in my first post, Melo at Syracuse and his first year in the L was the Melo that played with passion and sense that he wants to win. That's been lost ever since his second year...

Melo showed he can be a very good defender... I've seen him at times really focused and zoned in on his man... I want to see the effort everytime... I never demand him to be a DPOY... just give us fans effort everytime... even if you lose your man once in a while.

But not giving effort is a different thing... it's it makes people question if he wants to win... because if he really does... all that effort, energy, passion, intensity, competitiveness, will come out naturally from him. He doesn't need to show fake effort, all he has to do is he wants to win... but does he? I can't say it judging by his effort.

And Kobe played with all those: energy, passion, intensity, competitiveness every game... that's why when Lakers lost in the first round, Laker fans don't demand to trade him.

I really don't understand you guys don't take offense to a player (I don't care if he;s the franchise or 12th man) giving half effort... it's like a slap to the organization. I think I'm posting in a "Denver Nuggets" forum instead of "Carmelo Anthony" forum so I guess this shouldn't be considered trolling.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

you just don't get it do you. are you honestly THAT ignorant.

Ignorance seems to be bliss for him. He has been hating on Melo for a long time, acts like a know it all, and can read Melo's mind. Only an idiot says things like that, but the drivel he spouts pretty much confirms he is one.

Oh, but lets try talking some more sense in to him again.. be better to just instead though.

Snake, what you saw in the playoffs was a very frustrated player. You claim you can read body language, but you can't. Melo does want to win, but he knows with the "system" and "coaching" Karl does, it is impossible to win. You have no idea how hard that is on him. He is on a team lead by a moron, where the players don't know their roles. He is stuck with too extremely selfish players, AI and Camby. That frustration lead to a shot that wasn't falling, and it snowballed from there. Yet besides one game, he wasn't lazy. He still grabbed 9.5 boards a game. Anyone calling that lazy, is a f'ing moron.

What you should be praying and hoping for Karl to be fired and AI and Camby moved, replaced by unselfish players and a coach who will bring in an actual system on offense. You'll see Melo back to his old self.

And, why can't you seem able to acknowledge that getting to the team the playoffs is a sign of wanting to win? You're an idiot if you don't think so, especially in the West. It does matter, last year if the Nuggets were in the East, they could have made the finals too. If AI doesn't choke.

The year before that, with a line up of Him, Camby, and Miller.. and fill ins rotating in and out of the lineup at PF and SG, the team made the playoffs. That's a really crappy team, yet he got them to the playoffs and won the Division. But of course, he doesn't want to win.. because Snake said so, and Snake is all knowing.