Writing is on the Wall- Salmons Flustrated with Coaches

[pickIBL]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... ing_staff/

From the Sacramento Bee posted on RealGM. It has been reported in the recent past that John Salmons was on the block. If this doesn't expediate a trade I don't know what will. The Nugget's brass should be on the phone checking into just how cheaply Salmons could be acquired for. There are a lot of wings on the block right now which should devalue him some. The Blazers were linked to him, but I doubt they are willing to part with their young talent to make it happen. The Nuggets have expiring deals and picks to make this work. Plus the Nuggets could also add Sheldon Williams for front court depth or look to deal with another team for a big. Of course the Nuggets would still have their trade exception to use for a front court player this off season.

[Gogo Babaroga]

Make the trade!

[corona]

i'm tired of hearing about salmons already....and he hasn't even taken minutes from jr yet.

i don't even understand the obsession with him. karl would still find a way to play carter, because that's who karl is.
he's 29 years old, and this is the first season his PER's been above the league average. and its only because he's getting a ton of minutes as one of the main options on a terrible team. heck...kleiza had a better PER than salmons last year. this is the first season he's shot over 40% from 3, last year he shot under 33% and his career average is 34%. he's not going to solve spacing issues. he's not a defensive stopper. why are nuggets fans so set on getting him?

its not like he's less mistake prone that smith or something. per minute they average the same assist numbers and turnover numbers. and people think he'll play backup pg instead of carter? that's laughable.

you want a solution to the sg? he's already on the team.

[RRFB]

Yeah I don't get this fascination with Salmons either.
It would be one thing if he was coming in and was only going to take minutes from Dahntay and AC, but we all know thats not the case. Another mediocre shooting guard isn't going to make this team any better.

[pickIBL]

Dahntay Jones plays 18.8 minutes per game. Anthony Carter plays 23 per game. John Salmons will solve spacing issues because he is making jump shots. Turnover's go up when you are on a bad team. Salmons would be a great option as a backup point guard and YES he is a much better defender than JR. It will be so nice to have Salmons and Balkman to put on Kobe instead of getting swept in the playoffs with K-Mart, Carter, and Kleiza guarding Kobe. This is a good idea. He's shooting 47% from the field 81% from the line 40% from the 3 point line and is getting 3.2 assist per game with 2.29 turnovers. On the Nuggets his FG% would rise. His assists would rise playing some point guard and his turnovers would decrease because first he'd play a little less minutes and 2nd because he'd have more options to go to. This is a great idea that should be discussed.

[Teens On Acid]

we don't need Salmons, we need David Lee....plus Weems is back. Balkman, Weems & Kleiza should be able to cover it...time for JR to step up once more

[pickaxe]

Yeah not that I'm against Salmons helping, but I am. JR needs to keep developing and Balkman and his rebound radar is much needed on this team.

If Balkman doesn't get a boost in minutes, we need a big, period.

[corona]

Dahntay Jones plays 18.8 minutes per game. Anthony Carter plays 23 per game. John Salmons will solve spacing issues because he is making jump shots. Turnover's go up when you are on a bad team. Salmons would be a great option as a backup point guard and YES he is a much better defender than JR. It will be so nice to have Salmons and Balkman to put on Kobe instead of getting swept in the playoffs with K-Mart, Carter, and Kleiza guarding Kobe. This is a good idea. He's shooting 47% from the field 81% from the line 40% from the 3 point line and is getting 3.2 assist per game with 2.29 turnovers. On the Nuggets his FG% would rise. His assists would rise playing some point guard and his turnovers would decrease because first he'd play a little less minutes and 2nd because he'd have more options to go to. This is a great idea that should be discussed.

it all sounds nice in your theory...
but salmons won't affect jones or ac's minutes that much. karl has his crushes, and he sticks with them. the FO had to trade boykins because karl was playing him next to iverson far too often. so unless you trade AC away or blackmail karl, he's a 20mpg player. a player with the same a/to ratio as jr smith is not going to get backup pg minutes for this team. you can say its just because he's on the kings...but he's never been a high assist guy or great ball handler his entire career.
we trade kleiza for salmons...salmons takes kleiza's backup SF minutes (about 22 a game, if you account for melo playing some time at PF), we lose rebounding (because lk's a better rebounder than salmons), and maybe salmons takes some minutes from jones at sg. getting him to 24-26mpg....which realistically, is what he should be playing on one of the best ~7 teams in the league. i realize he's having a good statistical season....but that doesn't mean that's what he is permanently now, and it doesn't mean it's what he'll be with us. at this point i'd say its a statistical anomaly...mostly from playing on a bad team and facing opponents that play at 75% capacity and still win easily. its not often people magically get better at 29 years old after 6 seasons in the league.
does salmons replacing LK (who had a better PER than salmons last year, i'll remind you) and taking 4mpg away from jones make this team a legit contender? is it worth replacing a 23 year old solid bench player to get a 29 year old one? (and no, we're not getting salmons for hunter/atkins...they're terrible and hunter has a year remaining - sac could do better)

salmons is simply not that good. if he was a 38% career 3pt shooter and an above average defender i'd be onboard, if he was producing great stats with a great team i'd be onboard. if he was a better offensive player than smith i might be onboard. he's none though. he doesn't solve problems for this team. we need another big body who can rebound, and we need smith to average over 30mpg. that makes us great...not john salmons.

[pickIBL]

if he was a better offensive player than Smith you'd be on board?

Man I hate going after Smith because I love the guy. But here goes. Smith still has mental lapses on defense. He is not as strong on the defensive side of the ball as Salmons. As for Salmons. The one thing I disagree with is the comment about his handle. I like his handle. You can question some of the decision making this year if you want to, but I've seen being on a poor team kill plenty of players field goal percentage and assist to turnover ratio. As for offense. John Salmons has a superior career field goal percentage. This year alone Salmons is shooting 47.2 to JRs 44.7. In addition Jrs 37.9 percent from 3 is lower than Salmons 40%. Smith has made more 3 pointers, but Salmons has made a pretty decent amount as well so far this year. Smith's free throw percentage is 68.5% this year. Salmons is 81%. So far this season John Salmons has been more efficent on the offensive end being a primary scorer on a bad team. Now I love JR. But I believe Salmons should REPLACE Jones in the starting lineup. Jones has impressed but he still is a limited player.

Right now there are a bunch of available wings on the market. It devalues them in my opinion and makes it an excellent time to go after one. Hopefully the Nuggets can add a wing and a backup big. Btw, I'm all for David Lee. If that comes up I say go for it. But if we are just talking about trading for Chris Wilcox, then I say go for the Salmons deal and find an end of the bench big to go with it. The best deal for a big might be when the Nuggets use their trade exception after the season. The timing just appears to be right to land that wing. It does improve the team and sets the table to add a big with the trade exception and compete with any team in the league.

[pickIBL]

anyone just thought of getting under the luxury tax and just signing Courtney Sims?

[almost famous]

Not interested. Unless he's part of a bigger deal.

I'd love to get him if we were giving up JR. The only way I'd give up JR is if we were somehow getting Spencer in return.

[The Rebel]

IBL can you show one stat that shows the kings do not become much worse defensively when Salmons is on the court, because I have yet to see them get better while watching and have not found any stats that suggest it. I don't know if Salmons is your high school buddy, or if you just have a crush on him but you are out of your mind if you think Salmons is better then jr at anything. I love the fact in the other thread you completely ignore any differing opinion, and continue to make statements based totally on bull.

[M.Balla]

It would be one thing if he was coming in and was only going to take minutes from Dahntay and AC, but we all know thats not the case.

+1

[corona]

if he was a better offensive player than Smith you'd be on board?

Man I hate going after Smith because I love the guy. But here goes. Smith still has mental lapses on defense. He is not as strong on the defensive side of the ball as Salmons. As for Salmons. The one thing I disagree with is the comment about his handle. I like his handle. You can question some of the decision making this year if you want to, but I've seen being on a poor team kill plenty of players field goal percentage and assist to turnover ratio. As for offense. John Salmons has a superior career field goal percentage. This year alone Salmons is shooting 47.2 to JRs 44.7. In addition Jrs 37.9 percent from 3 is lower than Salmons 40%. Smith has made more 3 pointers, but Salmons has made a pretty decent amount as well so far this year. Smith's free throw percentage is 68.5% this year. Salmons is 81%. So far this season John Salmons has been more efficent on the offensive end being a primary scorer on a bad team. Now I love JR. But I believe Salmons should REPLACE Jones in the starting lineup. Jones has impressed but he still is a limited player.

so you're arguing against careers, and for half season samples? and that salmons is a better % player than smith because he started off november in a slump. i suppose danny granger > carmelo because melo started off slow too?
jr had a 60% TS% last year. salmons hasn't touched that in his career. heck...there's only about 20 players a year in the league that do that, and 2/3s of them are big men.
jr has a better career TS%, despite entering the league completely unprepared.
jr had a 18.1 PER last year. salmons hasn't touched that either.
you want 30 something game sample sizes? in the last 33 games of last season...including playoffs, smith averaged 16 points per game....in 22.5 minutes. per 36 minutes that's 26 points. and he did it shooting 50% from the field and 41% from 3, on 2.6 makes per game. this shooting percentage or offensive ability thing isn't really a competition.

and i really can't put any stock into valuing a player because he's doing such and such on a bad team. its far more telling when someone puts up good stats on a good team. nobody cares about zach randolph averaging 20/10. yet its meaningful when tim duncan does it. and it says something that john salmons has been around for awhile, has played on some at least mediocre teams....and he has never put up numbers close to the ones he's averaging now.

[pickIBL]

I compared career field goal percentages but yes half seasons do matter if you plan to contend this year and next year. Actually I started to focus on Salmons being the right piece for the Nuggets last year. I'm not ignoring anyone's points. My end game is probably the same as everyone elses I am just paying attention to the market. The biggest need for the nuggets is a big. The best opportunity to get one is this summer. Currently there are a lot of wings on the block. Dahntay Jones is in our starting lineup and we want to contend. That dicates to me that you grab the wing now and get the big later. Besides a guy like Courtney Sims might surprise.

[M.Balla]

To put it short, and I believe that (nearly) we all agree, Smith>Salmons, and yes, Salmons is a legit option to be the 3rd guard in a contender, and he's much better than Jones/Carter. But since he would take time off a more talented player instead the worse players, and plus, we need a big man the worst way, we don't need him.

And Sims... phew, he's killing it in the D-League but the Hornets cut him this offseason and they're not precisely stacked in the frontcourt. So something must be wrong with him.

[beemaster]

Dahntay Jones is a much better defensive player than Salmons. Jones is in the starting lineup for his defense. Salmons isn't going to take minutes away from him. Salmons isn't going to take AC's minutes because this is Karls team. Salmons is a much worse rebounder than Kleiza. Salmons just isn't a significant upgrade.
Wing players are typically available any time, so acquiring him before another PF makes no sense.

[pickIBL]

Dahntay Jones is a much better defensive player than Salmons. Wing players are typically available any time, so acquiring him before another PF makes no sense.

Well you got your PF. Happy?

Jones has looked good on the defensive end. Unfortunately he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with his jumper. The Nuggets historically have always had trouble at the 2. Vo couldn't play any D. And Buckner didn't have the O. Steven Hunter, Linas Kleiza, and a future first for John Salmons would put the Nuggets even further under the luxury tax threshold. Then maybe we can get you a big who I'd play in front of Petro. Courtney Sims.

[pickIBL]

Salmons is a much worse rebounder than Kleiza.

One averages 3.8 rebounds per game and one 3.6. One sees most of his time at the 2 and 3. The other at the 3 and 4. Last season Salmons averaged 4.1 rebounds per game in 31 minutes of play. I'd say if Kleiza is PF/SF and Salmons is a SG/SF that Kleiza is an average rebounder for his position and Salmons is a good rebounder for his position. Salmons does well considering he is chasing around perimeter players and not boxing out under the basket like a big.

[microfib4thewin]

Salmons is an iso player, so unless you need desperate help at the wing he's not going to average 20 a game. Also, corona is spot on about putting up good numbers on a bad team, it would be different if he's much younger and can lead a team to some wins like Rose, but the Kings have struggled regardless of opponent and Salmons production has only gone up when he has to replace K-Mart.