RealGM

What about Battier from Houston for Earl Smith?
Pros: perimeter defense, intangibles/grunt work player/ great character glue guy
Cons: less offensive firepower, youth, as Shane will only be able to maintain play for another
2-3 years left at that level.


Trade picks as necessary...

what you think?

nope.

i don't think we could generate enough offense to be successful with melo & billups doing essentially all the playmaking.

i also think afflalo is a heck of a defender, and can fill a battier-like role just fine. its not like battier shuts down kobe or anything. no need to give up smith (denvers best +/- player last season) to have two of the same players. (albeit battiers probably a little better in most aspects of the game, but not significantly in any area...imho)

Agreed.

Afflalo is a young Battier in the making, and creates the perfect 1-2 punch with JR at SG. Battier and Afflalo together is kind of redundant, all the while losing the offensive firepower on the bench.

I would love to have Battier if we could get him...but not at the expense of JR.

The only missing piece the Nuggets need is another big.

I think Shane is twice the defender Aaron is. He's not a Kobe stopper, nobody is, but he certainly knows how to get into star player's heads. IMO, he's the only guy who can really do a great job guarding Melo one on one.

That said, we need JR really bad. He's a play maker, a shooter, and a hell of a scorer off the bench. We've missed all three of those when he was out. I don't think Shane's defense over Arron's overcomes the need for JR's talents.

While I would agree that Afflalo is not Battier, Afflalo is more then suitable for what we need from our 2nd SG. The biggest problem we have on this team is rebounding and overall movement on offense, that is going to be the things they have to figure out if we hope to get anywhere this year.

Battie would fill our gap on sized shooter! We are still need legit 7 footer to beef up the post. We all have seen if we put our mind to it, we can rebound the ball. Guys are not putting effort in boxing out down low for team rebound, gotta gang up and plug entries to down low to rebound not just going after the ball since we do not have advantage on height!

Where the heck is Rodman! Hire em for rebounding and defensive assistant coach or something!

Until the Nuggets get a All Star 4 or 5, this team can get to the 2nd round of the playoffs or maybe the conference finals, but they aren't a legit threat to win a champion. Nene, K-mart and Birdman just aren't good enough... We can't score enough inside in the playoffs against good teams... and teams guard when Nene and K-mart are in teams guard 4 on 5 willing to let K-mart shoot jumpers. If Nene is not in it's 3 on 5. Gotta get a big time big.

Well it seems there's a bit of headcases peeking out here. Some bigs on the team think they've improved some aspect of their game enough to be able to force it at any given time instead of waiting for the right moment. Until they get their heads out of their asses nothing is going to change.

I think some of that is taking things for granted. Players need to look to see what they are able to get done against other teams and define their roles. Part of our offensive woes is we have not established a consistent go to man behind Carmelo. Carmelo can go out and get 40 pts anytime he so desires.....but when he is quadruple covered he has to pass out and the guy he goes to needs to execute.

Just because our guys are not executing doesn't mean Carmelo just hang onto the ball more, it means try and try again with another pass.

Some players just taking too much of the wrong thing on their shoulders right now. Step back and become a really good role player instead of trying to be a poor superstar.

Work out so BOTH Carl Landry and Chuck Hayes are included and deal done.

I think J.R.'s playmaking is his most valuable skill to this team, even more than his scoring or three pt, but I think we could afford to lose his playmaking given we have the rookie now Ty Lawson. No joke... rook is that good. It's just a matter of Karl giving him more and more minutes. Rook also plays arguably better defense than Earl. Without those picks, I'm not sure if Jennings could have got past Ty.

J.R.'s playmaking is still important, but if you minus that and plus Shane's own three pt shooting and defense to guard the bulkier guards and forwards, Chuck Hayes' beefy post defensive presence and actually a better finisher around the rim, much better ball handler/ catcher most people give credit him for, and Landry's all around talent on offense to spell KMart's ineffectiveness when he's ineffective, we can afford to lose Earl.

Maybe J.R + Petro for these three guys.

J.R.'s vertical and leaping abilities would be missed. All though we could use Battier, and maybe Carl Landry and Chuck Hayes - JR is a much simpler solution, and can hit the three.

If Petro wasn't so soft and clumsy we could probably use him to provide some size and the rebounding we need now.

It's size that we are missing.....Nene and Kenyon CAN provide presence but we need some no nonsense backup to Nene/Kenyon.

Birdman is the piece we are missing - in terms of what we came to expect last season. He was that cog and is having trouble coming out of the gate. I am really hoping he can fortify himself and bring back all his assets.

Don't want to let JR for nothing.

All though Battier is a great piece - I think we need to see some more basketball before we make a move that drastic. A free agent signing or a smaller trade would not be unwelcome though.

The Rebel wrote:While I would agree that Afflalo is not Battier, Afflalo is more then suitable for what we need from our 2nd SG. The biggest problem we have on this team is rebounding and overall movement on offense, that is going to be the things they have to figure out if we hope to get anywhere this year.

The movement on offense is never going to happen with this coach running the show. Hell, until Billups got here, nobody on the team knew how to take advantage of a mismatch (example: Spud Webb on defense against Melo on the block). For a guy with the career wins that GK has, you would think that he could offer more in such areas of the game, but he doesn't. The rebounding part can change, and I kind of thought it would before the season started, but resigning AC and took top priority

This would be a good year to try and snag a number one pick from a potential lottery team, Next year's draft should have a lot of PF's and Centers in it.

meloivynene wrote:J.R.'s vertical and leaping abilities would be missed. All though we could use Battier, and maybe Carl Landry and Chuck Hayes - JR is a much simpler solution, and can hit the three.

If Petro wasn't so soft and clumsy we could probably use him to provide some size and the rebounding we need now.

It's size that we are missing.....Nene and Kenyon CAN provide presence but we need some no nonsense backup to Nene/Kenyon.

Birdman is the piece we are missing - in terms of what we came to expect last season. He was that cog and is having trouble coming out of the gate. I am really hoping he can fortify himself and bring back all his assets.

Don't want to let JR for nothing.

All though Battier is a great piece - I think we need to see some more basketball before we make a move that drastic. A free agent signing or a smaller trade would not be unwelcome though.

I don't buy all of that stuff about Petro being so bad (yeah he is bad), but Gadzuric looked like an all-star against Nene in parts of the bucks/nuggets game. He would match up well enough against most backup Centers in the league on the defensive end of the floor, and the Nuggets don't use the Center spot as a scoring option. What does Nene get about 7 shots a game at 60 something % shooting. While our top 2 scorers generally go 8-22 and 6-17 or something close to this range. Petro could spell Kmart/Nene/The BeerBellyBirdman for 5-8 minutes a game, which would probably benefit the team in the long run.

SnakefromHell wrote:Work out so BOTH Carl Landry and Chuck Hayes are included and deal done.

I think J.R.'s playmaking is his most valuable skill to this team, even more than his scoring or three pt, but I think we could afford to lose his playmaking given we have the rookie now Ty Lawson. No joke... rook is that good. It's just a matter of Karl giving him more and more minutes. Rook also plays arguably better defense than Earl. Without those picks, I'm not sure if Jennings could have got past Ty.

J.R.'s playmaking is still important, but if you minus that and plus Shane's own three pt shooting and defense to guard the bulkier guards and forwards, Chuck Hayes' beefy post defensive presence and actually a better finisher around the rim, much better ball handler/ catcher most people give credit him for, and Landry's all around talent on offense to spell KMart's ineffectiveness when he's ineffective, we can afford to lose Earl.

Maybe J.R + Petro for these three guys.

Have them buyout TMac and throw him and Scola in there as well, we could simply include graham to sweeten it up more. If houston is going to give up 3 of their rotation guys for 1, they might as well throw in a couple of extra players. They don't even use TMac. I still doubt the Rockets would do it unless the Nuggets were willing to throw in AC for Brooks, doing this would probably entice the Rockets enough to jump all over a deal like this or not.

el loco wrote:

SnakefromHell wrote:Work out so BOTH Carl Landry and Chuck Hayes are included and deal done.

I think J.R.'s playmaking is his most valuable skill to this team, even more than his scoring or three pt, but I think we could afford to lose his playmaking given we have the rookie now Ty Lawson. No joke... rook is that good. It's just a matter of Karl giving him more and more minutes. Rook also plays arguably better defense than Earl. Without those picks, I'm not sure if Jennings could have got past Ty.

J.R.'s playmaking is still important, but if you minus that and plus Shane's own three pt shooting and defense to guard the bulkier guards and forwards, Chuck Hayes' beefy post defensive presence and actually a better finisher around the rim, much better ball handler/ catcher most people give credit him for, and Landry's all around talent on offense to spell KMart's ineffectiveness when he's ineffective, we can afford to lose Earl.

Maybe J.R + Petro for these three guys.

Have them buyout TMac and throw him and Scola in there as well, we could simply include graham to sweeten it up more. If houston is going to give up 3 of their rotation guys for 1, they might as well throw in a couple of extra players. They don't even use TMac. I still doubt the Rockets would do it unless the Nuggets were willing to throw in AC for Brooks, doing this would probably entice the Rockets enough to jump all over a deal like this or not.

You really think that's fair? I think they should at least at Yao Ming to the mix. That guy is worthless anyway since he can't stay healthy.

Well if you want a star (J.R.) you must pay the price. None of Houston's players in the trade is a star, J.R. is only 24, his ceiling is an all star, possibly a franchise player... but in Denver, he can never be that guy or I would say his chances are slim. Look at Trevor Ariza averaging 20 ppg in Adelman's system, J.R. would instantly be their go-to guy, possibly a role he's quietly been yearning for, and average 25 ppg on that team.

As for us, we don't need playmaking as much as we need ball-movement and consistent three pt shooting. Shane won't light up his defenders like J.R. can, but he is the more consistent three pt shooter, he won't go 12-for-18 from downtown one night and go 0-for-4 the next game. Not only in makes, J.R. is also inconsistent in his aggressiveness in attacking/ attempting shots.


We need less ball handlers, J.R. is a ball handler, these Houston guys are ball movers... you get them, you improve ball movement, add a more consistent three pt shooting in Shane, add toughness and defense.

Chuck Hayes is a very underrated defender imo. He can defend in the post as well as anybody, he takes charges more than all of our Nugget players in a season combined - give him 10 games -, he is a very good help defender, very good pick and roll defender, is in the paint to mix around and box out and give a living hell of opposing team's rebounders. Offensively, he's possibly the most underrated scorer on the Rockets team, he can catch passes and finish. Can pass too. But this guy is possibly the best defender in NBA noone talks about.

And Landry gives us finisher around the rim. When you see KMart try to finish around the rim, you cringe, because they are likely to clank, and Nene can have hot nights at home just like he can quickly have cold nights on the road.

But most importantly, these guys give us a chance on rebounding. Sometimes when I see Nene by himself trying to rebound, I feel for Nene... If Rockets don't want to part with both, heck give me Hayes over Landry, not necessarily the better talent, but the better fit for our team.



We need those bigs who are not frail like Andersen being easily pushed around, sometimes, I am worried an opposing bruising big like Dampier or Howard would crush his rib cage or break his legs... he's that fragile.

Speaking of Birdman, I don't think he's our answer, he's just one of those cats showing up for a season in a contract year, once he got money, he "runs". Just when you think KMart's contract is ending soon, looks like we're in for a long 5 year honeymoon with this guy... Bird is a great guy, but he gets fat mentally and satisfied to be at his planned destination and forget what got him there. I bet, by January noone in Denver will flap their wings for the Birdman, and by April a scatters of boos. He's lucky this is not New York.


I hope Chauncey or Melo soon speak up they need more rebounding... how can NOONE on the team at least speak up about a glaring problem??? Karl?

^^^^ You are right about this team needing a big man that will do garbage work.

You know....I can't figure out why we don't ensure Balkman has his 15 mpg.....the dude can rebound when he really. Much faster pace at rebounding than Malik. Balkman had 11 at Utah in preseason and 6 at Miami.....and I know there are some scrub minutes in there but the guy can still provide that X number of rebounds we are missing to at least make the rebounding respectable.....at least pull it to 40 rpg.

Petro....Allen.........we have two roster slots right there and one of them should be a big man who can box out and secure rebounds. The thing is we don't need them to be special on the offensive end in scoring.....just special in rebounding. Even the joker would at least solidify the roster.....that dude was brought in for rebounding and he did so at the most efficient clip.

I think we really need a Rodman type. Too bad he's one of a kind.

He played pretty terrible at Atlanta. But then again, I think that was about the only game I can ever remember where I actually said, "what is this guy doing in there, he is killing us right now." Which is pretty impressive, because I've said that about all of our other players multiple times. He isn't extremely talented, but he almost always does something positive when he gets some minutes. Unfortunately for him, that last performance might have been just enough to (unfairly) land him a spot in Karl's doghouse for a little while.

meloivynene wrote:You know....I can't figure out why we don't ensure Balkman has his 15 mpg.....the dude can rebound when he really. Much faster pace at rebounding than Malik. Balkman had 11 at Utah in preseason and 6 at Miami.....and I know there are some scrub minutes in there but the guy can still provide that X number of rebounds we are missing to at least make the rebounding respectable.....at least pull it to 40 rpg.

Petro....Allen.........we have two roster slots right there and one of them should be a big man who can box out and secure rebounds. The thing is we don't need them to be special on the offensive end in scoring.....just special in rebounding. Even the joker would at least solidify the roster.....that dude was brought in for rebounding and he did so at the most efficient clip.

I think we really need a Rodman type. Too bad he's one of a kind.

But we don't need a "contributing" rebounder. We need a main rebounder.

Right now our problem is inconsistency in rebounding. One night, Nene goes for 14, and the next game he goes for 4. KMart goes for 11 and the next game he goes for 2. How many games do we see these two pull boards in a single digit in the same game, combined? Many times.

We first need to fix the core issue, in other words, pairing Nene and KMart is no longer the answer. If not someone new to replace KMart in the starting lineup, we need someone new to replace Birdman as the first big off the bench, because clearly he's sucking his ass now. Even if he had lived up to the contract, I wouldn't trust Bird as the first big off the bench, he wasn't the answer for us in Laker series. I like Bird as someone who comes off the bench and gives us energy, but as the first big to come off the bench, it is too big of a role for him to consistently produce. I'd love a Brandon Bass type of guy who is just thick, muscular, gives opposing bigs some bruises, and is a horse and wants to rebound everytime.