Brand?

[The Rebel]

Brand has stated numerous times that he does not like fast paced offenses or the princeton offense, instead he prefers offenses based more on the inside out and walk it up half court. That is part of the reason he is having such a hard time in Philly right now.

All true. He's at his best if you pound it in to him so he can pound it into his defender. But he has the ability to run the floor with the Nuggets. What point guards does he have that can get him the rock in transition so he can take it to the rim? What point guards do we have?

Where is the proof that Brand can play on a running team? In only his 2nd season the only running team he has ever been associated with wants to dump him pretty damn bad, and have benched him.

Plus when we do get into a half court set... you have Brand to dump it to on the block. Billups knows how to work guys like Brand in... his time in Detroit is evidence of that.

Which big did Billups prove that with? Sheed spent most of his time outside and Ben was the ultimate garbage man. Plus with Melo and Nene needing touches in the block, how does Brand help ball movement?

You put Denver Nugget talent around Brand (with a floor general like Billups) and he'll look a little more like the old Brand than you might expect. You leave him in Phila with Williams and Iverson and he'll struggle.

You mean you hope he looks like the Brand of old. Truth is that he looked horrible next to Miller last year. Fact of the matter is that Brand needs shooters around him that do not need to control the bal, he is not going to find that in Denver, as they are not much better outside then the 6ers, and Melo, JR, Lawson, and Billups all like to have the ball in their hands plenty.

To win a series you've got the be able to get stops down the stretch and run your set/play in the halfcourt to get a key bucket at the end of games. Especially against the Lakers Brand's length and strength on D can help push Gasol away from the basket and make the shots harder by contesting them. When its time to get a bucket down the stretch Brand is better for that as well.

So you have to get stops, and you want to trade our best defender? Brand is not near the defender he once was, and even then he was overated. Fact of the matter is that his length does not make up for the lack of athleticsm.

You want someone to throw it down in transition or stuff down an o rebound... that's Kmart. Kmart's emotions can get the best of him at times though... Brand will stay composed... which is another positive when you add him to the Nuggets.

The Nuggets feed off of their emotions, JR, Melo, Bird, Kmart, and Nene all play better when they are pumped up and talkiing trash, so we get rid of the emotional leader for a reserved guy? Emotion may have played a large role in costing us the Lakers series, but they were also a big reason we were able to get to tha

IBL you say you are hungry for a championship, then take some time a learn how teams get there, it is not by adding in selfish overpaid declining stars who put up great numbers but have a hard time being on winning teams.

Since I've been watching I've seen teams get there several different ways. Being multidimensional sure does help..

Being multidemensional is one thing, trading players who fit your system for players that do not is a whole different ball game. You do not change the concept of your team to trade for an overpaid guy who has had problems leading his teams to win despite huge stats, while also being on a large contract, with signs of injury problems and a large drop of overall play. **** I would think any Nugget fan could see that after the AI fiasco.

As I've stated I have the confidence in Billups to work in both guys (and yes I know Brand isn't the same Brand) but it wasn't that long ago that both guys gave the Nuggets a playoff asswhooping. .

The problem is not with whether or not Billups can work them in, and I have yet to see a reason to believe they could improve a running team that focuses on defense, and ball movement, seeing as how neither is a great defender, both are and have always been lack holes on offense, and one has aknowledge numerous times he does not like to run.

As for the ass kicking that they provided, maybe we should go over what happened in that series as you seem to be ignoring the fact that just about any playoff team could have beat us that year.

Kmart was playing injured, and was then suspended after the 1st two games.
Nene was out injured for the year.
Our front court rotation consisted of Camby, Najera, Elson, and Evans. In other words an overated stat stuffer and 3 guys who would have been the 4-6th bigs. The Clippers had a healthy Kaman and Brand.
I wonder why Brand prior to the injury problems and decline did so well.

Our starting SG was Buckner (who was out of the league prior to us signing him and Dallas wished was out of the league after we let him go), with Demarr Johnson, Boykins, and Patterson splitting time as the backup 2 and 3. We had nobody that was a good enough player to slow down mobley who actualy had the better series then maggette did.

The fact of the matter is that Denver lost that series because they had no one in the paint that could actually play quality man to man defense once kamrt was out, and they also no one who could hit an outside shot allowing the Clippers to double and triple team Melo while still protecting the paint daring the Nuggets to beat them on wide open outside shots, where the Nuggets promptly went a whole 15 for 68.

You are acting like Maggette is some headcase who wouldn't try to fit in with the team (like he did with his former team that kicked our ass). Put Melo on the Nets and what would he do? Probably shoot the hell out of the ball. Seriously, consider the guy's situation. Maggette is in a hell hole.

Once again any team in the playoffs could have kicked our asses.

As for maggette, if he was such a great player, who tried so hard to play team ball, along with Brand, then why in all the time they spent together did they only make the playoffs 1 time? In fact why have they both only been on 1 winning team? There has been plenty of talent that went through the Clippers organization, but yet they only managed to win one year? Maybe a case could be made that it was just the clippers, or maybe they are both overated stat stuffers that have always bee more concerned about getting theirs then they have been about winning.

[The Rebel]

He went 21 and 10 a few nights ago in 25 minutes against Dallas. The guy just needs a defined role and consistent minutes. I really wouldn't be surprised given those circumstances if he pulled down around 10 a game.

Coming from a Philly fan, this right on the mark. Eddie Jordan is really jerking him around, despite many quality performances of late. He's coming off the bench in favour of Willie Green. That should tell you all you need to know about Jordan.

It is pretty telling when a coach that has had plenty of teams make the playoffs, is willing to bench a guy of Brand's supposed caliber, to play a young guy out of position while starting a guy who has been a borderline rotation player throughout his career.

Could it be that they don't like his attitude about fitting in with the things the team wants to do? Maybe those rumurs I read on the 76ers board the other day were true and Brand does not want to put the work in by actually trying in practice or studying the offensive concepts they are trying to run. I am sure though that Jordan who has coached a team with 2nd or 3rd round playoff asparations to a record of 5-15 is just doing these things to jack with the highest paid biggest name player on their roster. I am sure he would like to be rrun out of town this week.

[pickIBL]

He went 21 and 10 a few nights ago in 25 minutes against Dallas. The guy just needs a defined role and consistent minutes. I really wouldn't be surprised given those circumstances if he pulled down around 10 a game.

Coming from a Philly fan, this right on the mark. Eddie Jordan is really jerking him around, despite many quality performances of late. He's coming off the bench in favour of Willie Green. That should tell you all you need to know about Jordan.

Careful now, you make another post like that and Rebel's head might explode.

There has been a lot of trashing of Brand and Maggette, yet it seems their organizations get a free pass. Not to talk up my limited media contacts, but I was on this Brand being very available bandwagon (even for Kenyon who wasn't even expiring) a long time ago.

And just coming from 2nd hand it is important to realize the difference between say Allen Iverson and Brand or Maggette. It could have never worked out with Allen Iverson. He has that mental disorder where he just can't buy in and be a roleplayer and help the team. That's just not the case with either Brand or Maggette. You get them on a winning team, with strong leadership, and a good point guard and they'll do fine.

The issue here is do the Nuggets want to take on those contracts. If the Nuggets want to add talent, they likely will have to dust off someone from an irrevlevant team. They'd also likely have to take on more years.

[UNLVNugsFan]

For all the reasons Rebel said, I wouldn't want to trade Kenyon for Brand straight up if they were both on the SAME contract, let alone seeing Brand's ridiculous contract. If you want to handicap the franchise for some extra years, banking on a players resurgence, then sure go for it.

[The Rebel]

He went 21 and 10 a few nights ago in 25 minutes against Dallas. The guy just needs a defined role and consistent minutes. I really wouldn't be surprised given those circumstances if he pulled down around 10 a game.

Coming from a Philly fan, this right on the mark. Eddie Jordan is really jerking him around, despite many quality performances of late. He's coming off the bench in favour of Willie Green. That should tell you all you need to know about Jordan.

Careful now, you make another post like that and Rebel's head might explode.

YOu have your answer to this post right above here.

There has been a lot of trashing of Brand and Maggette, yet it seems their organizations get a free pass. Not to talk up my limited media contacts, but I was on this Brand being very available bandwagon (even for Kenyon who wasn't even expiring) a long time ago.

Not to trash your supposed media contacts but it did not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the 76ers would love to move Brand halfway through last season when it became appeerant that Brand was not oging to fit into the team concept they wanted to use.

As for Kmart for Brand, we all know you have been pushing that type of deal since last summer, and I have been stating that you have to look at fit and more then **** stats, when it comes to a fit on at team.

And just coming from 2nd hand it is important to realize the difference between say Allen Iverson and Brand or Maggette. It could have never worked out with Allen Iverson. He has that mental disorder where he just can't buy in and be a roleplayer and help the team. That's just not the case with either Brand or Maggette. You get them on a winning team, with strong leadership, and a good point guard and they'll do fine.

You think that Brand or Maggette can be role players on good teams based on what? Hell the 76ers have been in the playoffs the last few years, Now losing Miller and having a suposed healthy Brand they are a 25% win team, or on pace to win half as many games as they did last year. I also find it telling that Andre Miller a former teammate in LA was pissed when he heard that the 76ers signed Brand, feeling that it was not a move that would help them win.

as for Maggette, he is such a stat stuffer that he can't even get a chance to play for a stat stuffing team. We can talk about organizations all you want, but at some point players that have failed to win with 3 different teams each, need to start looking in the mirror.

On another point, you brought up the idea that if Melo joined a horrible team then he would have been nothing but a stat stuffer/chucker, It makes me have to ask if you just started following the Nuggets last year? After all the Nuggets were the worst team in the league in 02-03 with the only other big addition the offseason that Melo was drafted was Andre Miller, a guy who has now played with Brand on 2 different teams.

The issue here is do the Nuggets want to take on those contracts. If the Nuggets want to add talent, they likely will have to dust off someone from an irrevlevant team. They'd also likely have to take on more years.

No the reqal issue is what incentive do the Nuggets have to take on additional money for a guy who is on a ridiculous contract and has shown signs of decline. Not to mention that they have realized that there is more to building a team than adding a bunch of guys who put up empty stats.

The Nuggets front office understand something that people who only watch stat sheets cannot seem to grasp, the game is played on the court, and players games have to fit together to have the chemistry and teamwork you need. Bringing in guys like Brand and Maggette have shown nothing to lead to the conclusion that either of them would fit with the team, let alone improve them.

Besides that they also realize that they are a team that went to the wetern conference finals, upgraded 2 keys slots in the backup pg and starting sg, and have plenty of young players that are not yet in their prime, including 3 of their most important players. The onlly changes they make are to add a young 4th big that is an upgrade over Petro or Allen, or a current all star type that fits perfectly with the way the team is built.

[JustAwesome]

Brand wouldn't be a good fit with the Nuggets and their offensive system. Oddly enough, his character would have been better off had he stayed with the Clippers.