RealGM

Yes/No

At this point there is no doubt Philly would swap Brand for Kmart straight. There is risk involved in the deal for Denver because of past injuries, longer contract, and his being new to the team. That being said when it comes down to it I would support the deal as I'm very championship hungry.

Vets might be more likely to look at Denver as their destination of choice this spring as well if the deal went down.

This is the ONLY Brand trade I would do....

Brand/Speights for Kmart/Allen or Balkman. Id also throw a 2nd. Git r dun

Obviously Speights is the PF the 76ers plan to go with long term.

pickIBL wrote:Obviously Speights is the PF the 76ers plan to go with long term.

You need Speights included so he can play while Brand is sitting out because of injury.

Nutty Nats Fan wrote:

pickIBL wrote:Obviously Speights is the PF the 76ers plan to go with long term.

You need Speights included so he can play while Brand is sitting out because of injury.

Well if you are going by injury history Kmart's is far from spotless. If you want to take age into consideration plus a full past injury history the argument could easily be made that Kmart is the bigger risk both due to injuries and game deterioration due to age. The 06/07 season wasn't all that long ago... don't think you aren't rolling the dice by not picking up Brand. Either way its an injury gamble. The difference is Brand is the better player (although hasn't gotten back to what he once was), and Brand has more money left on the table.

At least give it an honest evaluation.

Let me expand. The Nuggets will be stuck with Brand for a lot longer than they would with Kmart, so need someone to play in his place when he is injured. They won't be able to bring in that someone with Brand's contract on the books, so they need that someone included in the trade for Brand.

Brand has really regressed since signing with Philly, he often looks displaced on offense and is not nearly the same defensive player he was before Philly. His contract is albatross, flexibility killer.

I'm with Nutty Nats Fan, unless Philly includes more (nice) player in the deal, I'm against this totally. KMart has been quietly very good for us. I think defensively he's a much better player than Brand now, rebounding wise Brand is better but I think KMart is pretty close. If KMart can keep up his performance like this all season, it will be his best season as a Nugget.

No straight swap. And I'm one of the advocates to bring thick forward/ big who can rebound like Brand. Mostly because I believe KMart is more productive for this Nugget team than Brand would ever be.

I'm not so sure any of their throw ins would help us, I think Speights would make the most sense as he is a big that can play and give us depth at 4 and 5 all of a sudden... Jrue Holiday won't make sense, we got Billups and Lawson, and I don't think he'd be comfortable with playing SG... Thaddeus Young would be Melo's backup, but not a SG and Philly won't surrender him like that... Allen Iverson? lol jk

Well there is what I would call an all in move.

Denver Sends: Kenyon Martin, Renaldo Balkman, Joey Graham, Malik Allen, Anthony Carter
Denver Gets: Elton Brand, Corey Maggette
Golden State Sends: Corey Maggette
Golden State Gets: Jason Kapono, Balkman, Allen, Graham, Carter
Phila Sends: Kapono, Brand
Phila Gets: Kenyon Martin
Trade ID #5311102
Congratulations on a successful trade.
Due to Denver, Golden State, and Philadelphia being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Denver, Golden State, and Philadelphia had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Denver TPE for Sean Williams (4th big)
Denver signs Curtis Stinson (to replace Carter)

Nene, Birdman, Petro
Brand, Williams
Anthony, Afflalo
Maggette, JR Smith, (Afflalo)
Billups, Lawson, Stinson

I don't think Maggette would be happy coming off the bench. I've basically given him a pass because he's with Golden State. Ideally he'd be better off the bench... just not sure he'd accept it well. That's a big strong... and deep team.

I think Kenyon, with his performance this season, has put himself in one of the untouchables (partly because he's valuable to us, and partly because his contract is hard to deal) we have... he has become a defensive anchor on this team, one that you can't just replace... and he is finishing around the basket with more regularity than at any point of his Nugget career ever.

Now you trade him for Brand who's basically a semi washed up guy with an even uglier contract than KMart's... and Corey Maggette one of the biggest blackholes in the L. There's a reason why the Warriors played only 6 players and didn't play him, even when he was ready to play. Sure a good thing about Corey is he can go to the line and give us easy points but with him, ball movement stops and when you defy this system, you sit deep in Karl's doghouse.

SnakefromHell wrote:he has become a defensive anchor on this team

and Corey Maggette one of the biggest blackholes in the L.

but with him, ball movement stops and when you defy this system, you sit deep in Karl's doghouse.

How'd things work out the last time we traded our "defensive anchor"?

The problem in Golden State is the Warriors. In Denver Melo is our best player and Billups the team leader/floor leader. Maggette fits in and falls in line... because Billups will take care of it... and because Maggette isn't a bad guy and wants to win. One team's trash is another's treasure. The issue isn't talent... its contracts and years.

He is not a bad guy but just like AI that's the only way he knows how to play, with the ball in his hands. Once you pass to him, ball movement stops and he measures how to attack. That doesn't work in Karl's system, not if you're not named Melo.

Don't make me laugh, don't buy whatever ESPN guys, or so-called experts say that Camby was our anchor defensively... nobody on that Nuggets team played defense... Camby was stats-padding by chasing after weakside blocked shots but neglecting the real defensive duties bigs had to do.


You trade KMart swap for Brand, while Brand might rejuvenate and put 17-18 ppg, we would never be the same defensive team. It'd not even be close. We don't need scoring... we need bigs who can rebound the ball.

If you come to me and guarantee Brand will average 10 rpg as a Nugget, I'll sign on that deal. But the reason I am not for this trade is I'm not convinced he can be that. And on top of that he is not nearly the same defender as KMart and I wouldn't do it...

SnakefromHell wrote:
If you come to me and guarantee Brand will average 10 rpg as a Nugget, I'll sign on that deal.

The way Denver runs (we get more possessions per game than Phila) and given 35 minutes a night?

He went 21 and 10 a few nights ago in 25 minutes against Dallas. The guy just needs a defined role and consistent minutes. I really wouldn't be surprised given those circumstances if he pulled down around 10 a game.

There is no way in hell the Nuggets take on that contract.

On top of that he is not a fit with this team and still looks horrible, not to mention that he does not fit with the Nuggets. He wants to be the number 1 option on a team that walks the ball up the court, which would be nightmare for this team.

As for comparing Kmart and Brand, only a fool would compare their numbers to prove that Brand is the better deal, considering that Kmart is by far the better defender, and on a much shorter deal.

As for bringing in Magette and his cap killing contract that iis an even worse idea.

IBL you say you are hungry for a championship, then take some time a learn how teams get there, it is not by adding in selfish overpaid declining stars who put up great numbers but have a hard time being on winning teams.

pickIBL wrote:

SnakefromHell wrote:
If you come to me and guarantee Brand will average 10 rpg as a Nugget, I'll sign on that deal.

The way Denver runs (we get more possessions per game than Phila) and given 35 minutes a night?

He went 21 and 10 a few nights ago in 25 minutes against Dallas. The guy just needs a defined role and consistent minutes. I really wouldn't be surprised given those circumstances if he pulled down around 10 a game.

Brand has stated numerous times that he does not like fast paced offenses or the princeton offense, instead he prefers offenses based more on the inside out and walk it up half court. That is part of the reason he is having such a hard time in Philly right now.

The Rebel wrote:
Brand has stated numerous times that he does not like fast paced offenses or the princeton offense, instead he prefers offenses based more on the inside out and walk it up half court. That is part of the reason he is having such a hard time in Philly right now.

All true. He's at his best if you pound it in to him so he can pound it into his defender. But he has the ability to run the floor with the Nuggets. What point guards does he have that can get him the rock in transition so he can take it to the rim? What point guards do we have?

Plus when we do get into a half court set... you have Brand to dump it to on the block. Billups knows how to work guys like Brand in... his time in Detroit is evidence of that.

You put Denver Nugget talent around Brand (with a floor general like Billups) and he'll look a little more like the old Brand than you might expect. You leave him in Phila with Williams and Iverson and he'll struggle.

To win a series you've got the be able to get stops down the stretch and run your set/play in the halfcourt to get a key bucket at the end of games. Especially against the Lakers Brand's length and strength on D can help push Gasol away from the basket and make the shots harder by contesting them. When its time to get a bucket down the stretch Brand is better for that as well.

You want someone to throw it down in transition or stuff down an o rebound... that's Kmart. Kmart's emotions can get the best of him at times though... Brand will stay composed... which is another positive when you add him to the Nuggets.

The Rebel wrote:IBL you say you are hungry for a championship, then take some time a learn how teams get there, it is not by adding in selfish overpaid declining stars who put up great numbers but have a hard time being on winning teams.

Since I've been watching I've seen teams get there several different ways. Being multidimensional sure does help. As I've stated I have the confidence in Billups to work in both guys (and yes I know Brand isn't the same Brand) but it wasn't that long ago that both guys gave the Nuggets a playoff asswhooping.

You are acting like Maggette is some headcase who wouldn't try to fit in with the team (like he did with his former team that kicked our ass). Put Melo on the Nets and what would he do? Probably shoot the hell out of the ball. Seriously, consider the guy's situation. Maggette is in a hell hole.

We already lost DJ. Without Kenyon, this team is soft.

Kenyon has more value to this team than Brand would have.

Didn't really think of the albatross contract when posting.....that pretty much negates it. I see Brand as most definitely rejuventaing his career if he were to play up here. He's averaged 10 rpg for his career. Look, here he would have probably about 15 mpg and the sky is the limit for how productive he wants to be. We'd have 4 bigs that can push each other, all with slightly varying styles and enough talent to scare other teams. Brand liking it slow is no problem as some teams will try to slow it down for us and when we start getting stagnant and not moving on offensive........boom, Elton Brand, got any ideas big guy?

But yeah the contract and not wanting to give up K-Mart make it impossible at this time.

pickIBL wrote:
He went 21 and 10 a few nights ago in 25 minutes against Dallas. The guy just needs a defined role and consistent minutes. I really wouldn't be surprised given those circumstances if he pulled down around 10 a game.

Coming from a Philly fan, this right on the mark. Eddie Jordan is really jerking him around, despite many quality performances of late. He's coming off the bench in favour of Willie Green. That should tell you all you need to know about Jordan.