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lol

I mean he wants to be traded... at least that's what he's hinting.

I think Gortat would be a much better trade consideration than Brand.


Give Magic J.R. Smith, Malik Allen, Renaldo Balkman and we got back Gortat, Ryan Anderson and J.J. Redick.

This seems like crazy to deal J.R. but think we got
- One of rising young centers in Gortat who can score around the rim and defend. His starting at C moves Nene to PF, and in turn moves KMart to the bench to bolster our second unit's defense and solid backup minutes at PF
- Ryan Anderson gives us that one big who can stretch the ball to three pt line, he's quietly having a breakout season with 10ppg while shooting 38% from 3... imagine when we play Lakers, Gasol can no longer camp in the paint defensively because Anderson is out at the three pt line... it gives us a lot dynamic on offense and considerably changes game plans for opposing coaches when he enters the game because he'd be the only big we have that can shoot 3s. They'd go, "how come we don't have scouting on Anderson, this guy is killing us, I thought all Denver bigs can't shoot 3s???"
- Like Anderson, Redick is quietly putting together the best season of his career, avg 9.2 ppg and shooting 41% from 3.



And when you think J.R.'s outside shooting and scoring will be missed, he also is inconsistent from the 3 pt land... he can drain 8 threes and enable us to blow out teams, but he can also go 0-for-6 the very next game and we lose a very big important bench scoring.

Think again, are we supporting the Nuggets to watch them blow out teams or are we supporting the Nuggets to see them consistently beat teams and win that trophy?

We do this trade and we basically spread out the scoring from 2nd unit... and basically not relying on one man (J.R.) as the main guy to produce offensively off the bench... it's pressure for him, and pressure for Ty Lawson who's essentially given the task to produce as the second guy off the bench. Relying your 2nd unit offense on 1-2 guys (one is a rookie) is a lot of pressure when you consider there're 82 games and playoffs games with a lot at stake.


But when you do this deal, the scoring is more spread out, now you have KMart, Ryan Anderson, Ty, Redick and Birdman to produce offensively... you're relying 2nd unit production on 4-5 guys (instead of 1-2) and that's a lot more depth and more consistent. KMart then can lead them defensively.


What do you guys think?

SnakefromHell wrote:lol

Give Magic J.R. Smith, Malik Allen, Renaldo Balkman and we got back Gortat, Ryan Anderson and J.J. Redick.

This seems like crazy to deal J.R.

What do you guys think?

I think it is crazy and we need JR's firepower too much. A lot of player movement and new people to introduce into key roles on a title contender. If you want to convince me on a trade it would have to be for someone who could come in and be an impact player and put us over the top. Giving up the firepower off the bench for a few role players doesn't do it.

We basically give up the best player in this trade. At least in the Brand trade you could argue you get the better player back.

Have you watched the NBA notably the last couple of seasons? Brand is semi-washed... it's mind boggling when KMart is playing the best at any point of his Nugget career, and his contract is coming to an end, and people want to trade, essentially our best defensive player who fits in this system for a semi-washed player whose contract is even uglier than Kenyon's.

And just like I said, when you rely your 2nd unit production on 1-2 guys, it's bound to be more inconsistent than when you rely it on 3-5 guys. The problem with Karl's using only 3 guys in regular rotation is Carter, Graham, Balkman can't produce consistently especially on offense. But when you have Anderson and Redick who can flat out shoot, he can play them because he knows they can play and prove they can, esp on the offensive end.

SnakefromHell wrote:Brand is semi-washed....

28 MPG, 12.2 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 1.3 BPG, 1.3 SPG, 45% FG, 83% FT

32 MPG, 10.7 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 1.4 BPG, 1.3 SPG, 45%, 65% FT

If Brand is semi washed his numbers look quite similar to Kmart in lesser minutes.

By your own logic Kenyon Martin is semi washed up compared to his NJ Nets days. Your argument to move our firepower off the bench for lesser roleplayers is weak. I essentially suggested moving Martin (and contracts) for Brand and Maggette.

76ers have moved on and Brand is simply not the focal point of the team. He's not happy and he's playing at least 5 (maybe even 8 or 10) less minutes that he should be. I don't doubt how well Brand would fit in with the Nuggets. I think he'd be happy with the trade and fit in well. The issue is flexibility going forward for the Nuggets. But Billups won't maintain this level forever and the Nuggets have never won a title.

The difference is that Martin's brutal contract is about up, and Brand's isn't. I don't want that contract.

The real problem lies defensively. Right now, that means excluding the past, KMart is the superior defender... and even rebounder.

We need a "big" who can rebound, not a "big name" who used to produce in the past and can't now. I don't doubt a change of scenery may rejuvenate Brand, but would we really risk parting with KMart who's been an integral important part of our team and consistent contributor to someone who's totally new to the system, no guarantee of him fitting in, and even uglier contract?

I mean if you suggest trade KMart for Marc Gasol or his brother Pau Gasol, I'm all for it. Marc is a thick, double figure rebounding legit 7 footer... and Pau is one of the best PFs in the L and long.


But for Brand, you have to consider his output and contract... he used to put 20 and 10, yes, but I'm not counting on the past.


And you want Maggette, that guy's shot selection can make Zach Randolph laugh...

SnakefromHell wrote:

but would we really risk parting with KMart who's been an integral important part of our team and consistent contributor to someone who's totally new to the system, no guarantee of him fitting in, and even uglier contract?

I mean if you suggest trade KMart for Marc Gasol or his brother Pau Gasol, I'm all for it. Marc is a thick, double figure rebounding legit 7 footer... and Pau is one of the best PFs in the L and long.


And you want Maggette, that guy's shot selection can make Zach Randolph laugh...

I agree there is plenty of risk involved. But I've been watching this team since the late 80s try and get a title...at some point if you want it you have to roll the dice.

Remember with Brand's reach and wingspan he is basically a legit 7 footer. You put Kaman and Brand next to each other... tell them both to reach as high as they can flat footed... Brand's hands get higher. So basically I'm thinking about the length plus the physical abuse Brand could dish out to Gasol in the playoffs.

Maggette is a chucker on the warriors... we agree. The funny thing is he's shooting a career high 48.4 percent from the field this year.

I have to honestly say I have to watch more Sixer games (Nugget-Sixer game ) to see Brand's attitude:
- In rebounding the ball
- In defending the paint
- In balancing between asserting himself on offense and be unselfish
- Most importantly, if he knows what the coaches want from him and does not appear lost or out of place...

If all in good score, I can agree on trading KMart for him... but for now, my scores on all of them are pretty low...

I have to agree with you though, his physicality and wingspan on Gasol could be effective. Let's see.

while I would love to get Gortat, there is now ay I trade JR for him. Plus he is pissed being the 4th big in Orlando, why would he want to come to Denver to be the 4th big?

The other thing about Brand is I'm not overly interested in replacing one undersized big with another. If we're replacing Kenyon Martin, I'd like it to be somebody who can match up physically with the Lakers' bigs. JR is too much to give up for Gortat, IMO.

Guys, my suggestion was we give up J.R. for Gortat and Anderson (10 ppg, 38% 3PT) and Redick (9 ppg, 41% 3PT).

The Rebel, Gortat would be our starting center instantly... that's the projection. I think he's ready to be a starter, if the experiment for starting him fails, make Gortat the 1st big off the bench to replace Nene and KMart back at starting lineup... Birdman can replace KMart at PF. That way, he's regularly in the rotation and now we'll have three bigs (including Ryan Anderson) to come off the bench. Forget Petro.

We're basically telling J.R., Ty, and Birdman to carry 150 pounds of weight, remember one is a rookie and one is mercurial in J.R.. That's a lot of and heavy responsibilities for three guys.


Now we're asking 5 guys: KMart (if Gortat is starting), Ty, Anderson, Birdman, and Redick to carry that same 150 pounds of weight... you'd feel more confident of their production... you feel like you can rely on them more. And consistency will come along.

It's not a bad trade, but....

I agree about JR. It's nice having two SG that can play ball on both sides, and JR's ability to create on his own causes havoc for opposing defenses. Yes, Redick and Anderson can shoot, but it's not worth giving up the 6th man candidate, who could start on a lot of teams with his talent.

I like Gortat, but he wouldn't be happy here due to lack of pt. We could use Anderson and his shooting prowess of the bench, however....

I personally like this trade idea, but it would never happen....IND/DEN - Kmart for Troy Murphy/Jeff Foster.

Either: Foster/Nene/Melo/AA/CB or Nene/Murphy/Melo/AA/CB with Foster/Anderson/Graham/JR/Ty off the bench...

either way, our bench would be sick. Would be a little worried about lack of Kmart's defense, but Nene/Foster could certainly bang with any team...and Murphy is a good double double guy who can hit an outside shot and shoot free throws....

I'd rather have JR's scoring punch at the ready, even if it goes flat for a game now and then. The thing with him is he's not playing at a constantly improving clip so far this season. His ability to penetrate and knock down that shot are reasons we win 5-10 more games per season with him on the team. JR is our Hail Mary and all though his lowside is pathetic -, his upside is ridiculous +++.

I like the move for Anderson and Gortat......I just think we need to add and not subtract from the team.

And JR does need to get into rhythm for us because while keeping him is important, he needs to demonstrate why we would make a good decision to keep him.

no way we could trade J.R we need him too much

i'm sure kmart would be psyched about coming off the bench in place of gortat.

and you're underselling the leagues scouts.

and it wouldn't matter if gasol couldn't camp in the paint defensively....because he'd score 2 points on andersen every possession offensively. besides, its not like the dude would ever play. what other team has a 5-big-man rotation?

and i still don't think you understand the problems jr creates for opposing defenses. he's not just a streak shooter that goes 8/8 or 0/6. his p&r game creates a ton for nene/bird/kmart, open 3's for lawson/billups. his penetration forces the defense to react and rotate, and that's how offenses are efficient in the nba. there's a reason he's consistently a great +/- player.

jj redick can't do that stuff. gortat is not a good 1v1 post player. our offense would be brutal if we do any trade that takes away jr and substitutes some role players that have no off-the-dribble ability.

corona wrote:i'm sure kmart would be psyched about coming off the bench in place of gortat.

and you're underselling the leagues scouts.

and it wouldn't matter if gasol couldn't camp in the paint defensively....because he'd score 2 points on andersen every possession offensively. besides, its not like the dude would ever play. what other team has a 5-big-man rotation?

and i still don't think you understand the problems jr creates for opposing defenses. he's not just a streak shooter that goes 8/8 or 0/6. his p&r game creates a ton for nene/bird/kmart, open 3's for lawson/billups. his penetration forces the defense to react and rotate, and that's how offenses are efficient in the nba. there's a reason he's consistently a great +/- player.

jj redick can't do that stuff. gortat is not a good 1v1 post player. our offense would be brutal if we do any trade that takes away jr and substitutes some role players that have no off-the-dribble ability.

He is passing the ball well, rebounding well, and playing defense. He does a lot more than just shoot these days.

Gortat wants to start bad, he can catch passes, finish around the rim, rebound, and play defense. If he underperforms/ KMart starts yappin, or combination of both, we can always bench Gortat and start KMart again.

Gortat will then be Nene's primary backup, Birdman will be KMart's primary backup. They will not be competing for minutes.


The reason Gortat is now bitchin is he has to compete for minutes with Bass and Van Gundy likes the three ball and likes to favor Anderson over him and he is getting from Bass what he would be getting from him otherwise.


Remember with Karl, he always puts guys in based on match ups. With us, Gortat can be Nene's primary back up and Anderson can be that wild card put in for match up purposes... whenever Karl needs a big who can shoot. Those basterds on LA's frontline will always camp in the paint to pull one out will help our inside offense and penetration tremendously... for Nene, Melo, Lawson, Billups when he wants to draw those fouls and go to the line.


But I understand what J.R. brings... his penetration breaks down opposing team's defense and his option to go for penetration/ pull up long range shot makes him a tough cover... and his playmaking has always been top notch...


Something's gotta give... at 15-5 it's hard to make deals, and after the Spurs game, it'd be even harder to think dealing J.R., who had a nice game. But to me, when you're the better team, you are not supposed to crawl from behind wondering if they'd really make it... sometimes we got a nice W like this, but sometimes the Clippers game happened. I'm saying, when we're consistent (steady, not too high/ not too low... not explosive one night and ice cold the next night) we never have to watch struggles in games we're not supposed to struggle at all. We'd be smooth sailing. Steady, maybe a bit boring, but we'd know we'd get it done with feeling of certainty and confidence every game.


But you know... I'm not complaining at all... this is not a complain thread but ideas thread.

SnakefromHell wrote:Gortat wants to start bad, he can catch passes, finish around the rim, rebound, and play defense. If he underperforms/ KMart starts yappin, or combination of both, we can always bench Gortat and start KMart again.

Gortat will then be Nene's primary backup, Birdman will be KMart's primary backup. They will not be competing for minutes.

sure they would be.

since all 4 are incapable of playing the 3, there's 96 minutes to split between 4 guys. nene's too good to get less than 32, which leaves 64 minutes between 3 guys. kmart makes too much money and is too big a factor to play under 30 minutes. that leaves 34 minutes between bird & gortat, who are both making like 5 million apiece. and you don't think either would want more than a quarter and change of playing time per game? 5 million for 17 minutes a game....and we lose our wild card/penetration/3 point shooter.

its a joke.

i'd rather be a little up and down throughout the season with unfocused losses to crap teams once in awhile than sail smoothly through the season (as if having gortat, and no jr smith would solve all focus problems) but not have the talent/style to compete with the contenders.

with the amount of trade ideas this board comes up with, you'd think we're 5-15.
we're clearly pretty darn good. by most peoples estimations a half notch below the lakers, but above everyone else in the west. i don't think any trade that moves more than one or two players on the roster would be good, and i don't think trading jr smith for a player that wouldn't provide significant near-all-star-level impact is a good move.

the front office stood pat over the summer, confident that another season of growth + lawson would get them at least as far as last season. so far we're seeing that. and you think they're gonna change their minds right now and make silly shuffling changes? if you don't, then i don't think its even worth discussing. just as well off theorizing what would happen if we traded malik allen for lebron james.

if they can trade kenyon for an all-star level post player, i think they'd pull the trigger. that's about it.

corona wrote:

SnakefromHell wrote:Gortat wants to start bad, he can catch passes, finish around the rim, rebound, and play defense. If he underperforms/ KMart starts yappin, or combination of both, we can always bench Gortat and start KMart again.

Gortat will then be Nene's primary backup, Birdman will be KMart's primary backup. They will not be competing for minutes.

sure they would be.

since all 4 are incapable of playing the 3, there's 96 minutes to split between 4 guys. nene's too good to get less than 32, which leaves 64 minutes between 3 guys. kmart makes too much money and is too big a factor to play under 30 minutes. that leaves 34 minutes between bird & gortat, who are both making like 5 million apiece. and you don't think either would want more than a quarter and change of playing time per game? 5 million for 17 minutes a game....and we lose our wild card/penetration/3 point shooter.

its a joke.

i'd rather be a little up and down throughout the season with unfocused losses to crap teams once in awhile than sail smoothly through the season (as if having gortat, and no jr smith would solve all focus problems) but not have the talent/style to compete with the contenders.

with the amount of trade ideas this board comes up with, you'd think we're 5-15.
we're clearly pretty darn good. by most peoples estimations a half notch below the lakers, but above everyone else in the west. i don't think any trade that moves more than one or two players on the roster would be good, and i don't think trading jr smith for a player that wouldn't provide significant near-all-star-level impact is a good move.

the front office stood pat over the summer, confident that another season of growth + lawson would get them at least as far as last season. so far we're seeing that. and you think they're gonna change their minds right now and make silly shuffling changes? if you don't, then i don't think its even worth discussing. just as well off theorizing what would happen if we traded malik allen for lebron james.

if they can trade kenyon for an all-star level post player, i think they'd pull the trigger. that's about it.

Agreed, you would think that this team was struggling to make the playoffs, but now there are constant posts trading key guys for role players and scrubs that are having a hard time getting minutes on other teams. Something don't fit.

Jr Smith is untouchable