Toughest Position to play defense

[Da Schwab]

I don't understand the third base thing. Not the least of my problems with it is that 3B is typically where people move a good hitting SS who has lost a step.

Third base requires an absurdly strong arm as nearly every throw you make to any base on the field will be across your body. All that torque and stress on the arm can cause quite a bit of damage.

This is why first base is so far down on the list, being as throws are rarely made from first to any other bag and first basemen generally don't have to range very far from their post.

[Modern_epic]

Right, but arm strength is a small fraction of baseball fielding (and, I would guess, the easiest one to improve).

A third baseman has less range to cover than the guys up the middle, plays the ball less than anyone in the infield, and almost never has to catch it (which is the unappreciated part of a first baseman). He also pretty much never has to throw it with someone sliding into him, which is a very difficult parts of being a SS or 2B.

[WEFFPIM]

Catcher is definitely the toughest position to play. Why would someone say LF is tougher than RF?

More right-handed batters than left-handed.

Catcher is easily the hardest (oxymoron?). Think of it like this, if there's no shortstop or no center fielder there'd me a lot more hits. If there's no catcher there wouldn't be a game.

[sunshinekids99]

Right, but arm strength is a small fraction of baseball fielding (and, I would guess, the easiest one to improve).

A third baseman has less range to cover than the guys up the middle, plays the ball less than anyone in the infield, and almost never has to catch it (which is the unappreciated part of a first baseman). He also pretty much never has to throw it with someone sliding into him, which is a very difficult parts of being a SS or 2B.

I think third is difficult due to everything being on you so quickly. The reaction time is minimal sometimes.

[Modern_epic]

I agree it is difficult. I can see the argument over 2B, even though I lean the other way. Maybe even over CF (the skill sets are very different, but I would guess if they swapped places, the CF would look better at 3B than vice versa). But I really don't see it over SS.

[tsherkin]

I wouldn't necessarily call catcher the hardest position to field. I think it's one of the more difficult ones, but unless you're facing a knuckleballer, sitting there and catching the ball isn't THAT difficult.

Calling the game is not a defensive action in the same way as is fielding a ball, and to suggest it is so is to suggest that coaches on the bench are playing defense, which is wrong. They are involved in the play prior to the action, which begins with the pitch; it's strategy, it's important, it's related to defense, but it's not actually playing defense.

Crouching all the time sucks, but it isn't a really significant criterion here. It may make catcher the most difficult position to play in a general sense (in conjunction with everything else), but not so defensively.

More importantly, there aren't that many good defensive catchers anyway; the biggest part of defense that catchers play is trying to get runners who try to steal, and that's a skill that's not exactly at its peak these days.

Catchers have it tough in general, and in those instances where they are blocking the plate, it's even worse, but I think on a contact-for-contact basis, you see way more balls hit elsewhere, and much more defensive responsibility lying on the shoulders of other players.

This conversation is a bit vague, though, and all this quibbling about what is and is not defense is the result. Catchers see the ball coming at them a lot more frequently than any other player on the field, but catching a pitch isn't usually that difficult, it's usually framing the pitch and selling a call that's more difficult. Yes, once in a while the catcher has to block a pitch, but if you compare the number of times that a catcher has to try and throw out a runner, block a runner at the plate or block a wild pitch against what the infielders have to do, or the center fielder, then you'll find that they aren't nearly as involved in active defense as those other players, which to me says that they don't have it any worse on D overall than those guys.

[craig01]

C
3b
ss
2b
rf
cf
lf
1b
p

[ReasonablySober]

I am not saying catchers don't play defense, i am saying calling a game isn't part of the defensive process.

You are out of your god damn mind.

[ReasonablySober]

Right, but arm strength is a small fraction of baseball fielding (and, I would guess, the easiest one to improve).

And you would be wrong.

[Modern_epic]

I hope you're not claiming range is easier to improve. There is a reason power hitters play third more often than second or short.

I could see the argument for catching skills, except an inherent part of that is balance (for staying on the base when you reach out for a bad throw) and, in so much as it is improvable, it isn't something a baseball player should work on, as it doesn't benefit any other part of their game.

[ReasonablySober]

I'm just saying that increasing arm strength isn't something you're improving, just like you're range probably isn't getting much better unless you're a fat ass and end up getting in great shape or something. I'd also strongly disagree that arm strength is a small fraction. How many bang-bang plays are there every game? Plenty. You're talking the difference between a single and an out. Catchers with strong arms (and good footwork, accuracy and a quick release, obviously) keep runners at first base. Outfielders with big arms can keep runners from taking an extra base. If you have a guy with a noodle out there runners will go from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to home all day on you.

Throwing accuracy you can improve. Footwork you can absolutely improve. Your glove can be improved but it takes a lot of time and repetition.

I'd say footwork is the easiest aspect of the game, at any position perhaps, to improve.

Anyway, I've played every position between HS and college and I think it's all relative. If you're good at one particular aspect of the game a position is going to seem a lot easier than others. Personally I thought third was the tough as hell because I was never that good at picking up hot shot ground balls. Coming in to make an accurate and strong throw across your body on a dribbler is very difficult. Obviously you have to be able to throw a rope most nights.

The two toughest are catching and pitching for different reasons.

Catching you have to be able to:

- Call a good game (I LOL when anyone says that's not a skill or part of the defensive process. Seriously, wow).
- Know every situation and where the base running threats are
- Have a great arm
- Have excellent footwork
- Be able to get the ball out ridiculously quick AND throw to a small spot
- Take the rigors of being behind the plate day after day.
- Block the pitches in the dirt when you have to. I can't tell you as a pitcher how valuable that was, knowing I could throw a breaking ball in the dirt and my catcher would deaden it in front of the plate most times

If catcher wasn't such a tough position to play, you wouldn't see guys like Jason Kendall starting day after day. The reason you can live with bad hitting from a catcher is there are so few good quality defensive catchers in the world (and Kendall isn't even great defensively, wtf). Why? It's far and away the toughest (besides pitcher) position to play. If it wasn't you would see more guys like Mauer or McCann.

If you're a pitcher you don't have to be great at fielding ground balls. You don't have to be fast or overly quick or even in great shape. But the skill needed to consistently hit spots, change speeds and fool hitters with off speed stuff is so tough and takes so many years to refine that no other position even comes close. That's not even taking velocity into account, either. Sure, you could take Joe Blow and put him on the mound to throw but he won't be able to get outs. Even the hardest thrower needs years of work before they can get good hitters out.

Gun to my head here is how I'd rank the positions in terms of difficulty (assuming you want to be good or great at what you do)

1 - P
2 - C
3 - 3B
4 - CF
5 - SS
6 - 2B
7 - RF (I think you have to take arm into account here)
8 - LF
9 - 1B

I just think you have to take context into account and think logically. Why are pitchers so highly valued? Because there aren't a lot of truly great ones out there. If it was an easy position to play, there would be more #1 caliber guys in the world. If catching wasn't so difficult every team would have a .300 hitter behind the dish.

[RoyceDa59]

livestrong = fail

I'm not even a huge baseball fan, but the first and most obvious position that came to mind was catcher. And for you to claim calling a game (which is only part of what a catcher does) isn't defense then you're kinda slow.

[nesta]

catcher no question...having to catch bad pitches, baserunners trying to steal on you, throws to the home plate, being on your knees....

[mike_miller]

^ i think catcher is by the most demanding on the body..

but in terms of degree of difficulty..i would think short stop is a hands down winner..so much ground to cover, so little time to react, balls come to either side, youre throwing all over the diamond all the time..

i mean just from logic perspective. seems like most teams are willing to take a weak offensive guy at ss more than any position if his d is there.

[tmorgan]

Big issue is defining the word "tough" --

If you mean it literally, it's catcher. You take a beating.

If you mean it in terms of the most difficult plays to make, it's third. I played third and short (and some center; I could throw) in little league, and even against young teenagers, the shots you get whistling by you at third are just nasty.

If you mean it terms of most important, as in where you put your best defensive players, it's shortstop. There's more plays, and it requires all of reflexes, an arm, awareness, and soft hands.

And, as a previous poster mentioned, if you count pitching as playing defense, on a single game basis, it's obviously the starter.

I assume the OP meant toughest plays, so I'm saying third. There's a reason (and not just a lower number of plays) that the variance in fielding percentage, range factor, zone rating, and every other defensive stat is higher at third than anywhere else --- the skill level needed on the plays to third is really high.

Just to use a local example: Brandon Inge is a helluva third baseman -- covers bunts like a champ, throws rockets, great range, everything you want. Miguel Cabrera is abysmal -- slow, less of an arm, easy to bunt on, brick hands. It's hard to believe that guy has logged innings at third in the majors.

[mike_miller]

^imagine him playing ss...guys eated his way around the infiled and still just crushes the ball on offense no matter wheres hes at

[tmorgan]

I don't doubt MIggy has played short as a little fella, but not in the bigs. Corner outfield and corner infield only in the majors -- we tried him for a handful of games at third in 2008 (after he'd spent all of 2006 and 2007 in Florida playing there), but it was just too ugly. His numbers don't do him "justice" -- he just can't cover enough ground.

Helluva hitter, though.

[Hendrix]

. Why would someone say LF is tougher than RF?

More right-handed batters than left-handed.

And right handers hit to left field more then right field. afaik we always stuck the worst player in rightfield.


Growing up I played 3b, SS, 2b, CF and the toughest position for me was 3B. It doesn't get as much action as some of the others, but it's a hot corner w/ very limited time to re-act to pulled line drives, and a long throw to 1st.

I don't think it has the impact as some of the other positions defneisvly. But def one of the tougher ones imo.