Salient ideas on why we need to get past the DH Divide + how

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

The authors of this site believe that, just as people eventually figured out that it was more reasonable than not to play night baseball in North Chicago, indeed baseball will eventually unite... though not by one league "winning over" the other.

Here's some food for thought for baseball fans who care about logic and rationale... in fact, if I may say so... a feast, at least for those who think about the larger issues of baseball:

http://UnifyBaseball.wordpress.com

RealGM board posters are welcome to contribute to the conversation.

[craig01]

Nice read.

I would like to see it's elimination (unlikely).

The DH adds an element, but also takes away several important ones too.

You can successfully argue for or against each way in how baseball is a better game......but I think the quality of depth doesn't get utilized, and strategically managers would be forced to not play with using situational numbers so much either.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

On behalf of the other contributors, thanks, craig01.

We just added a new option today. See what you think.

The Enhanced Pitchers Sac + Primary PH option

[VinnyTheMick]

I never see the player's union agreeing to eliminate jobs for the older players which is what getting rid of the DH essentially does.

[craig01]

I never see the player's union agreeing to eliminate jobs for the older players which is what getting rid of the DH essentially does.

It doesn't eliminate jobs, just some existing players.

[VinnyTheMick]

I never see the player's union agreeing to eliminate jobs for the older players which is what getting rid of the DH essentially does.

It doesn't eliminate jobs, just some existing players.

We are arguing semantics right now. Some existing players' jobs (Matsui, Thome, Vlad etc..) are eliminated because they become essentially useless. The union will not be in favor of this. That is just the reality of it.

[craig01]

I never see the player's union agreeing to eliminate jobs for the older players which is what getting rid of the DH essentially does.

It doesn't eliminate jobs, just some existing players.

We are arguing semantics right now. Some existing players' jobs (Matsui, Thome, Vlad etc..) are eliminated because they become essentially useless. The union will not be in favor of this. That is just the reality of it.

I'm not arguing the reality of it (it'll never go away, but wish it would)

[mike_miller]

i like that there are differences between the leagues..

it makes the world series a bit more interesting to see each team adapt..

that said i think the DH is a little cheap and if you gotta go one way, make all pitches bat..

[craig01]

i like that there are differences between the leagues..

it makes the world series a bit more interesting to see each team adapt..

that said i think the DH is a little cheap and if you gotta go one way, make all pitches bat..

Some people do, some people don't.

What has happened though, is that an entire generation of fans has grown up with the DH.....so it won't be going away no matter how many arguments are thrown out there.

Again, JMO, but I grew up watching the game before the DH......and I believe that baseball is more interesting and a better game without it.

[sunshinekids99]

I would much rather see the NL use the DH than the AL give it up. If the AL didn't have the DH we would have missed out some really special players and some older guys that could extend their careers.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

Regarding the premise that one league give-in to the other:

http://unifybaseball.wordpress.com/no-ones-giving-in/


Regarding the premise that the players union would never agree to any change:

http://unifybaseball.wordpress.com/real ... ic-middle/

...and...

http://unifybaseball.wordpress.com/rating-the-options/

[craig01]

I would much rather see the NL use the DH than the AL give it up. If the AL didn't have the DH we would have missed out some really special players and some older guys that could extend their careers.

Good points.

Before the DH, older guys just drifted into being part time players that would float around a few years before being released or retiring.

While it's nostalgic to keep some productive players around, it's also cheapened the "flavor" of the game .

For good and bad, missed..... is seeing a 6'7 Frank Howard lumber around the outfield (who would turn a single into a double, or a double into a triple), Wllie McCovey butcher balls at first base, or Dean Chance feebly strikeout at the plate for the umpteenth time in a row. There was a cost that had to be factored with having certain players.

With the DH some strategy is lost, but to me, more importantly.....some of the game's character is lost too.

But, since I am a baseball purist, I know full well that my opinion lies in a dwindling minority.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

With the DH some strategy is lost, but to me, more importantly.....some of the game's character is lost too.

But, since I am a baseball purist, I know full well that my opinion lies in a dwindling minority.

"Character" is very much in the same vein as "tradition."

I lean strongly towrd the purist side myself.

There is a substantive argument that says that we who come at it from that side would be smart to consider options that, though they may incorporate a DH, in some legitimate way re-establish the strategic part of the game that the AL game has lost.

Also, I think it's worth recognizing that professional football and basketball have both made some significant changes (league-wide) over my lifetime and perhaps yours, but that those changes, today, are seen as improvements, even to most purists... e.g., no more ties and the two-point conversion in football... the shot clock and the three-point shot in basketball... the lesson being, while tradition is important, there is such a thing as an "improvement."

In baseball's case, the DH was an attempt to resolve the perceived problem that the game did not feature sufficient offense to keep people interested. For a large number, that was, indeed, the case, though we continue to see that for a larger number, that wasn't and isn't the case (i.e., according to a USA Today poll, about 30% desire the game with the DH, but 40% desire it without it... and... the popularity of the non-DH game (NL) as measured by per-capita-attendance continues to exceed the with-DH game (AL)).

So, the DH has worked, but it hasn't. In almost any other forum for any other issue, it is our nature to seek a compromise that works well, appealing to the fundamental desires the stakeholders seek. That would mean, generally, tweaking the rule so that its imperfections are effectively mitigated... tweaking being a relative term, of course.

If you have not already done so, I encourage readers to go look at the continuum of options raised on the Unify Baseball site, where we've put on the proverbial table quite a few possibiliies.

[mike_miller]

I would much rather see the NL use the DH than the AL give it up. If the AL didn't have the DH we would have missed out some really special players and some older guys that could extend their careers.

theres nothing better than seeing a guy go 7 strong AND help his team on the field..

id rather see a dontrel willis HR any day of the week than someone who spent 90% of the game sitting in the dugout jerk one..