Rumor: Brewers Acquire Zack Greinke(update done deal)

[bigboy1234]

By the way just looked at the latest CHONE projections (beginning of September) here is how they have the R150

C.....-7.5...-5
1B.....37....54
2B.....13....-1
3B......2.....1
SS....-16...-11
RF....29....31
CF.....-7.....5
LF.....8.....19

Man, I'm not sure why these projection systems are so biased for the Cardinals and just hate on the Brewers. I'm guessing Sean Smith and Dan Szym are both Cardinal fanboys and created these systems just to make them look good.

Then nERA from CHONE

SP...3.15...3.59
SP...3.83...3.59
SP...3.92...4.13
SP...4.78...4.25

Again, close.

Edit- Of course, the Cubs suck. Everyone knows this. Waits for Cubs fans...

Like I said I thought the trades were good for the Brewers, should be a close race in the worst division, hopefully the Brewers moves will entice the Cardinals to make some moves too as it seems they just stand pat knowing that the division sucks and once you get in the playoffs it's a crapshoot.

[GYBE]

Edit- Of course, the Cubs suck. Everyone knows this. Waits for Cubs fans...

How sad is it that the Cubs thoroughly average farm system is massively ahead of the Cards or Brewers?

Milwaukee has a one-year window before they lose Prince. They don't have the resources to pay or properly replace him. When this happens, the offense will probably fall to around the middle of the pack. Of course none of the posts annointing the Brewers as contendors has mentioned their defense, which has been terrible for years without any sign of change. Yes, Marcum is going from the AL East to the NL Central. He's also a contact-orientated pitcher going from a good defensive team to a bad one.

The Cardinals season will depend on the health of their stars, as with any "stars and scrubs" type team. But it's not really a sustainable way to run a contendor long-term.

The Cubs probably won't compete this year, but they're better positioned for future success than either franchise. They have a ton of trade chips and prospects to deal. A lot of cheap, young players they can keep or package. The horrible deals Hendry gave out in 07/08 are finally coming to an end; only Soriano's terrible contract runs past 2012. They'll be spenders in upcoming free agency periods. In the meantime, we'll just watch Starlin Castro.

[trwi7]

Of course none of the posts annointing the Brewers as contendors has mentioned their defense, which has been terrible for years without any sign of change.

Wrong.

Last year they were 15th in the majors in UZR, 12th in 2009 and 12th in 2008. That's average to slightly above.

No doubt they'll be worse this year, but that could change if they replace Betancourt with somebody else.

Yes, Marcum is going from the AL East to the NL Central. He's also a contact-orientated pitcher going from a good defensive team to a bad one.

Huh? He's posted above average K rates the last three years topping out at 7.6 last year. They were 5th in the majors in K/9 last year but second worst (ahead of only the Cubs) in BB/9. We were worst in the majors in BB/9 by our starters. I think replacing Bush, Davis, Suppan and Parra with Marcum and Greinke will help in that category.

We also have some hard throwing strikeout guys in the bullpen as well.

Believe me, most of us are hoping we get some other SS who can defend even if they can't hit a lick.

[GYBE]

I'll concede that I didn't realize the Brewers had solid UZR numbers. I will say no defensive metric is perfect. They were 29th in BP's Defensive Efficiency (25th when park adjusted). Corey Hart is pretty awkward in right, Prince is Prince and Weeks has never had a good reputation.

[bigboy1234]

How sad is it that the Cubs thoroughly average farm system is massively ahead of the Cards or Brewers?

Give me Shelby, Tyrell, Cox, and Matias (Martinez) over the Cubs top 4 of BJackson, McNutt, Archer and whoever you want to consider 4th.

[trwi7]

Weeks has gotten so much better. It's not 2004 anymore. He's a solid average defender at this point. It looks like McGehee's knee may have actually been bothering him all of 2009 because he was -22 UZR/150 in 2009 and only -4 in 2010. Still not great, but not awful like he was in 2009.

Braun is still a butcher. Gomez and Dickerson are solid in center. Hart has good speed but can read a ball off the bat about as well as a baby can read.

Fielder is Fielder, not expecting miracles there. That's why so many of us want a defensive SS signed or traded for. We know Betancourt is an awful defender, which might be okay if he could hit, but he can't do that either.

[Relentless88]

I'll concede that I didn't realize the Brewers had solid UZR numbers. I will say no defensive metric is perfect. They were 29th in BP's Defensive Efficiency (25th when park adjusted). Corey Hart is pretty awkward in right, Prince is Prince and Weeks has never had a good reputation.

And they just picked up their SS in the Greinke trade in Betancourt who's a terrible defensive shortstop.

[Wade-A-Holic]

Keep in mind that Prince Fielder's career pattern has been up and down from season to season. Not only should this season be an 'up' season for him, but he's playing for a contract.

Do I think this Brewers team should be the favorite? No, but they'll be right in the thick of things and once the playoffs begin, who knows? We all just witnessed Cody Ross go off against great playoff pitching. The Brewers just gave themselves the chance to match up 1-3 with anybody in baseball and see what happens. Given what I've witnessed in my lifetime, I'll take it.

[LUKE23]

How sad is it that the Cubs thoroughly average farm system is massively ahead of the Cards or Brewers?
Milwaukee has a one-year window before they lose Prince. They don't have the resources to pay or properly replace him. When this happens, the offense will probably fall to around the middle of the pack. Of course none of the posts annointing the Brewers as contendors has mentioned their defense, which has been terrible for years without any sign of change. Yes, Marcum is going from the AL East to the NL Central. He's also a contact-orientated pitcher going from a good defensive team to a bad one.

The Cardinals season will depend on the health of their stars, as with any "stars and scrubs" type team. But it's not really a sustainable way to run a contendor long-term.

The Cubs probably won't compete this year, but they're better positioned for future success than either franchise. They have a ton of trade chips and prospects to deal. A lot of cheap, young players they can keep or package. The horrible deals Hendry gave out in 07/08 are finally coming to an end; only Soriano's terrible contract runs past 2012. They'll be spenders in upcoming free agency periods. In the meantime, we'll just watch Starlin Castro.

So it appears you're bragging that your farm system is better than the Brewers, even though it is average, that you definitely won't contend this year, and that you might win in the future?? Ok, I guess.

Can anyone explain how this is NOT the right path for the Brewers to take given that they don't have the funds to re-up Prince? Should they trade Prince for whatever junk they can get, and not make big moves with the pitching, wasting his last year? Or should they go for it?

The trade will be judged by how the prospects we traded turn out, and whether or not the Brewers make the playoffs/advance in the playoffs. Lets also keep in mind that they have Greinke and Marcum for two seasons, with Gallardo and Wolf for both, so they will likely have a top 3 NL rotation for both 2011 and 2012. This gives them a two year window to contend, not one, even losing Prince. And I wouldn't rule out extending Greinke at all either if the team has success. He doesn't want to play in a huge market.

Either way, I don't see the Cubs future as anything special at all. They have proven that they spend poorly when they open up the pocket book, and at this point, prospects are still prospects until they prove something in the majors.