OT: Miami Marlins hire FIRST EVER WOMAN AS GM

Moderator: TyCobb

When will woman be hired as HC or GM in NBA

Poll ended at Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:10 pm

6-12 months
1
2%
2 years
14
33%
3+ Years
28
65%
 
Total votes: 43

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Woodsanity
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Re: OT: Miami Marlins hire FIRST EVER WOMAN AS GM 

Post#61 » by Woodsanity » Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:06 pm

Neutral 123 wrote:
Woodsanity wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
There's a very good reason for that. The change young idealists want has often been tried and failed already. Tradition exists for a reason, and that reason is that the countless millions that have lived before, figured out this was the best way to go and sometimes for reasons even they didn't understand.

There's this odd assumption that if it weren't for sinister outside forces that everyone would be equally represented in every endeavor.

But that hasn't happened anywhere or any time in Earth's history.

The MLB is in America and America has a small Asian population, that's a factor. Women, despite similar access to sports, don't have nearly the same interest in sports as men, that's a factor. Women, being the ones who give birth, and generally not wanting to sacrifice a home life, not wanting to sacrifice having and caring for her children, certain careers are going to be far less palatable, that's a huge factor.

There's nothing unusual or sinister about some made up delay to the rise of a woman to this position. She's just a very intelligent, hard working and dedicated woman who chose a field most women aren't interested in. An interesting story or curiosity perhaps but that's it. No need for so much of the virtue signaling that cheapens what she's done.


This isn't about why women generally wouldn't be interested in trying for the GM position.
Its about how someone with 30+ years of experience on top tier teams didn't get a GM position for now. Passed up for unqualified, white male GMs with little to no experience. People have been saying that she was a great GM candidate since the early 2000s but it took 15-20 years for her finally to get a job.

So naturally, her race and gender played a big role. With her credentials if she were a white male she would have gotten the job ages ago. Asians have it hard in America. Most minorities have lower standards to get into top colleges.

Asians actually have the opposite problem, they are discriminated against and face higher standards than whites and other minorities when applying for colleges since "too many" Asians are in top colleges. This is just one of many examples.


That is a statement that requires at least a bit of evidence don't you think?

As for Asians facing higher standards it is precisely a push for diversity at all costs which is why that's the case. This is why I believe you higher or admit who is the best. Something many people do not like because it will mean disparities, like less women in baseball.


The evidence is pretty clear. She has been in the market since the early 2000s but never gotten a job. A lot of the guys who got hired did instead of her had little experience and also did a horrible job. Many of them only got their jobs since they were upper class white men who were buddy buddy with other people in management. This is honestly a pretty common thing.

I don't know how it could get any clearer than that? What "evidence" do you want?
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Re: OT: Miami Marlins hire FIRST EVER WOMAN AS GM 

Post#62 » by Neutral 123 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:07 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
Harry Garris wrote:
Society is slow to change and is never going to develop at the pace that we young idealists want it to. Its better to be happy about the good changes that DO happen rather than being negative about everything, imo.


There's a very good reason for that. The change young idealists want has often been tried and failed already. Tradition exists for a reason, and that reason is that the countless millions that have lived before, figured out this was the best way to go and sometimes for reasons even they didn't understand.

There's this odd assumption that if it weren't for sinister outside forces that everyone would be equally represented in every endeavor.

But that hasn't happened anywhere or any time in Earth's history.

The MLB is in America and America has a small Asian population, that's a factor. Women, despite similar access to sports, don't have nearly the same interest in sports as men, that's a factor. Women, being the ones who give birth, and generally not wanting to sacrifice a home life, not wanting to sacrifice having and caring for her children, certain careers are going to be far less palatable, that's a huge factor.

There's nothing unusual or sinister about some made up delay to the rise of a woman to this position. She's just a very intelligent, hard working and dedicated woman who chose a field most women aren't interested in. An interesting story or curiosity perhaps but that's it. No need for so much of the virtue signaling that cheapens what she's done.


This is mostly true. That said there is 100% a level of difficulty for people to excel in fields that don't fit gender norms. Yeah this is mostly a story of a woman who has very different goals from most women being successful in a world that doesn't care nearly as much about all this stuff as some people think. But by no means is being an oddity in every room not going to be a challenge to someone. This is the classic case of too many extremes being looked at.

But both those who seem to think this is a nothing story and those who think the old boys club has been cracked are over shooting things. The "old boys" club are the owners anyway and they just want to make more money.


What's so tragic is there are people who would seek to dismantle a system that ensures the LEAST amount of discrimination. If owners don't want a woman around, there's a cost to that in less games won of she's the best for the job. That's why profits are the most amazing thing to happen in this side of heaven.

People either have to put up or shut up. An owner is going to have to hate their own well being just as much as they hate women. That's why I'm skeptical of these ceiling claims. That and of course no one has provided a shred of evidence to suggest what they are saying is true.
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Re: OT: Miami Marlins hire FIRST EVER WOMAN AS GM 

Post#63 » by Neutral 123 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:10 pm

Woodsanity wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
Woodsanity wrote:
This isn't about why women generally wouldn't be interested in trying for the GM position.
Its about how someone with 30+ years of experience on top tier teams didn't get a GM position for now. Passed up for unqualified, white male GMs with little to no experience. People have been saying that she was a great GM candidate since the early 2000s but it took 15-20 years for her finally to get a job.

So naturally, her race and gender played a big role. With her credentials if she were a white male she would have gotten the job ages ago. Asians have it hard in America. Most minorities have lower standards to get into top colleges.

Asians actually have the opposite problem, they are discriminated against and face higher standards than whites and other minorities when applying for colleges since "too many" Asians are in top colleges. This is just one of many examples.


That is a statement that requires at least a bit of evidence don't you think?

As for Asians facing higher standards it is precisely a push for diversity at all costs which is why that's the case. This is why I believe you higher or admit who is the best. Something many people do not like because it will mean disparities, like less women in baseball.


The evidence is pretty clear. She has been in the market since the early 2000s but never gotten a job. The guys who got hired did instead of her did horrible jobs and had little experience. They only got their jobs since they were upper class white men who were buddy buddy with other people in management.

I don't know how it could get any clearer than that? What "evidence" do you want? :lol:

So it's your opinion that unqualified men were hired because they were friends with others in the organization? You are certain, with no evidence of course that teams would rather lose tens of millions by losing, rather than hire a woman? You think everyone that works in pro sports becomes a GM?
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Re: OT: Miami Marlins hire FIRST EVER WOMAN AS GM 

Post#64 » by Woodsanity » Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:12 pm

Neutral 123 wrote:
Woodsanity wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
That is a statement that requires at least a bit of evidence don't you think?

As for Asians facing higher standards it is precisely a push for diversity at all costs which is why that's the case. This is why I believe you higher or admit who is the best. Something many people do not like because it will mean disparities, like less women in baseball.


The evidence is pretty clear. She has been in the market since the early 2000s but never gotten a job. The guys who got hired did instead of her did horrible jobs and had little experience. They only got their jobs since they were upper class white men who were buddy buddy with other people in management.

I don't know how it could get any clearer than that? What "evidence" do you want? :lol:

So it's your opinion that unqualified men were hired because they were friends with others in the organization? You are certain, with no evidence of course that teams would rather lose tens of millions by losing, rather than hire a woman? You think everyone that works in pro sports becomes a GM?


Well show me what kind of bogus proof you want? Its a fact that most of the people hired over her had less experience and didnt even do a good job. Stop trying to pretend to be analytical and unbiased when you are not. :oops:

Of course some people may have passed over her for different reasons but for 15-20 years people passed her up even though she was usually more qualified than the other guys? Something stinks there.

Also you think owners always make the best choices. There are so many bad owners in the nba who make horrible choices to the detriment to their team like my Knicks :crazy:
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Tiesto_Lakers wrote:The more I watch basketball, the more I realize that Kobe, in his absolute prime (2006-2008), was a top 2 player of all-time, only second to Jordan.
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Re: OT: Miami Marlins hire FIRST EVER WOMAN AS GM 

Post#65 » by Neutral 123 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:24 pm

Woodsanity wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
Woodsanity wrote:
The evidence is pretty clear. She has been in the market since the early 2000s but never gotten a job. The guys who got hired did instead of her did horrible jobs and had little experience. They only got their jobs since they were upper class white men who were buddy buddy with other people in management.

I don't know how it could get any clearer than that? What "evidence" do you want? :lol:

So it's your opinion that unqualified men were hired because they were friends with others in the organization? You are certain, with no evidence of course that teams would rather lose tens of millions by losing, rather than hire a woman? You think everyone that works in pro sports becomes a GM?


Well show me what kind of bogus proof you want? Its a fact that most of the people hired over her had less experience and didnt even do a good job. Stop trying to pretend to be analytical and unbiased when you are not. :oops:

Of course some people may have passed over her for different reasons but for 15-20 years people passed her up even though she was usually more qualified than the other guys? Something stinks there.

Also you think owners always make the best choices. There are so many bad owners in the nba who make horrible choices to the detriment to their team like my Knicks :crazy:

I'm asking you to think more critically. What percentage of execs in baseball end up at GMs? Does she have kids? Was she offered a GM position earlier but couldn't accept it or was disqualified because she couldn't commit to the schedule?

Anything besides she was a woman who worked in baseball a long time ago of course it was a so called glass ceiling that held her back.

Women have been doing great things for over a century in America in the workforce. There's been no wage gap since at least the 1970s. There's lots of evidence that suggests that women as a group are NOT discriminated against in the workplace.
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Re: OT: Miami Marlins hire FIRST EVER WOMAN AS GM 

Post#66 » by canada_dry » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:56 pm

They hired Eve?

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Re: OT: Miami Marlins hire FIRST EVER WOMAN AS GM 

Post#67 » by Harry Garris » Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:34 pm

Neutral 123 wrote:
Harry Garris wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
There's a very good reason for that. The change young idealists want has often been tried and failed already. Tradition exists for a reason, and that reason is that the countless millions that have lived before, figured out this was the best way to go and sometimes for reasons even they didn't understand.

There's this odd assumption that if it weren't for sinister outside forces that everyone would be equally represented in every endeavor.

But that hasn't happened anywhere or any time in Earth's history.

The MLB is in America and America has a small Asian population, that's a factor. Women, despite similar access to sports, don't have nearly the same interest in sports as men, that's a factor. Women, being the ones who give birth, and generally not wanting to sacrifice a home life, not wanting to sacrifice having and caring for her children, certain careers are going to be far less palatable, that's a huge factor.

There's nothing unusual or sinister about some made up delay to the rise of a woman to this position. She's just a very intelligent, hard working and dedicated woman who chose a field most women aren't interested in. An interesting story or curiosity perhaps but that's it. No need for so much of the virtue signaling that cheapens what she's done.


Yeah I'm realistic about that and also realize that just because I want a certain societal change to happen doesn't mean I'm entitled to it.

What change do you want? If you recognize that people are different and went different things in life then to have equality would mean forcing people to do things they don't want to do and having people in positions they may not be qualified for.

The change I'd love to see is everyone accept that people are different and that will mean different outcomes. I'd love to see everyone reach their full potential in whatever they want to do, not see everyone equally represented because that's somehow more pleasing to my eyes.


I already do recognize that. I'm not sure why you assumed I disagree with you somehow.
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