Halladay Best Pitcher of Last Decade by Far

BritneysBestBet · Post #21 » by **BritneysBestBet** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:10 pm

sule wrote:anyone think he has a chance to make it to 300 wins?

He would have to get around 5 motr 20+ win seasons. Assuming he gets 10 more this year.Brings him to 190. another 100 or so? it would be tough. have to pitch into 40's...

Post #22 » by **craig01** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:44 pm

BritneysBestBet wrote:
sule wrote:anyone think he has a chance to make it to 300 wins?

He would have to get around 5 motr 20+ win seasons. Assuming he gets 10 more this year.Brings him to 190. another 100 or so? it would be tough. have to pitch into 40's...

If he averaged 15 wins over 7 years he'll just about be there.

I think if Halladay stays healthy, it's possibly within reach.....but is still a longshot

Parataxis · Post #23 » by **Parataxis** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:21 am

GYBE wrote:2100 innings is...a ton of innings. Of course I would expect Halladay to dominate stats with that benchmark. Look at the other names you mentioned; Wakefield, Hernandez and Moyer. Entirely average pitchers with longevity. Halladay deserves credit for his longevity and health, but that doesn't mean he's been the been the best pitcher by far.

Most of his peers in talent are significantly younger, they've never had the chance to be in this discussion. Lincecum already has 2 Cy Young's and a World Series title in 3 full seasons. Felix Hernandez threw 240 innings of 2.49 ERA ball two years ago and 250 innings of 2.27 ERA last year. Neither have had any injury problems so far.

Yeah, but Halliday should have significantly more Cys. He was robbed at least three times, IMNAAHO.

Zeitgeister · Post #24 » by **Zeitgeister** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:42 pm

Parataxis wrote:
GYBE wrote:2100 innings is...a ton of innings. Of course I would expect Halladay to dominate stats with that benchmark. Look at the other names you mentioned; Wakefield, Hernandez and Moyer. Entirely average pitchers with longevity. Halladay deserves credit for his longevity and health, but that doesn't mean he's been the been the best pitcher by far.

Most of his peers in talent are significantly younger, they've never had the chance to be in this discussion. Lincecum already has 2 Cy Young's and a World Series title in 3 full seasons. Felix Hernandez threw 240 innings of 2.49 ERA ball two years ago and 250 innings of 2.27 ERA last year. Neither have had any injury problems so far.

Yeah, but Halliday should have significantly more Cys. He was robbed at least three times, IMNAAHO.

Who robbed him? He's never lead any league in WHIP, ERA or Strikeouts all of which most Cy Young winners win. He's a classic inning eater, control guy who happens to be very good at it. I don't think he's ever been robbed of a Cy Young though.

BritneysBestBet · Post #25 » by **BritneysBestBet** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:27 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:
Parataxis wrote:
GYBE wrote:2100 innings is...a ton of innings. Of course I would expect Halladay to dominate stats with that benchmark. Look at the other names you mentioned; Wakefield, Hernandez and Moyer. Entirely average pitchers with longevity. Halladay deserves credit for his longevity and health, but that doesn't mean he's been the been the best pitcher by far.

Most of his peers in talent are significantly younger, they've never had the chance to be in this discussion. Lincecum already has 2 Cy Young's and a World Series title in 3 full seasons. Felix Hernandez threw 240 innings of 2.49 ERA ball two years ago and 250 innings of 2.27 ERA last year. Neither have had any injury problems so far.

Yeah, but Halliday should have significantly more Cys. He was robbed at least three times, IMNAAHO.

Who robbed him? He's never lead any league in WHIP, ERA or Strikeouts all of which most Cy Young winners win. He's a classic inning eater, control guy who happens to be very good at it. I don't think he's ever been robbed of a Cy Young though.

2008 - robbed.

lobosloboslobos · Post #26 » by **lobosloboslobos** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:59 am

The Phillies are now 40-15 in games that Roy Halladay has started. They have won more than 70 percent of his starts and broken a record that has stood for more than 100 years. The Phillies' .727 win percentage behind Halladay is the best team win percentage in a pitcher's starts among those who debuted since 1900 (min. 50 starts).

from espn

Dr Positivity · Post #27 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:05 am

The way he's demolished the SO/BB category the last two years is incredible

Strikeouts / Base On Balls s c a p y
1. Halladay (PHI) 7.300
2. Johnson (FLA) 3.875
3. Wainwright (STL) 3.804
4. Latos (SDP) 3.780
5. Lilly (TOT) 3.773
6. Oswalt (TOT) 3.509
7. Hamels (PHI) 3.459
8. Kuroda (LAD) 3.313
9. Blanton (PHI) 3.116
10. Hanson (ATL) 3.089

Strikeouts / Base On Balls s c a p y
1. Halladay (PHI) 8.000
2. Lee (PHI) 4.933
3. Hamels (PHI) 4.667
4. Zimmermann (WSN) 4.381
5. Kershaw (LAD) 4.325
6. Bumgarner (SFG) 4.111
7. Sanchez (FLA) 3.539
8. Hudson (ARI) 3.485
9. Lilly (LAD) 3.357
10. Garcia (STL) 3.257

Dirk_diggler_41 · Post #28 » by **Dirk_diggler_41** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:02 pm

Pitchers fWAR over the last ten seasons:
1. Halladay, 61.8
2. Sabathia, 52.3
3. Santana, 45.9

Zeitgeister wrote:Never led the NL or AL in strikeouts, never led the NL or AL in ERA, never led the NL or AL in WHIP.

No he's never led the league in strikeouts, but he has led the league in SO/BB five times. Nolan Ryan led the league in Ks eleven times, but led the league in walks eight times. K totals are nice, but I'd rather have a pitcher with a 3.7 strikeouts to every walk than 2.04 strikeouts for every walk.

This season he leads all of MLB in SIERA, FIP, xFIP, and tERA.

Dirk_diggler_41 · Post #29 » by **Dirk_diggler_41** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:25 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:Never led the NL or AL in strikeouts, never led the NL or AL in ERA, never led the NL or AL in WHIP. He's a great pitcher.

Being near the lead almost every season should count for something?
Going by baseball reference,
In the AL in 2002, Halladay was 1st in bWAR for pitchers, 5th in ERA, 6th in strikeouts.
In the AL in 2003, 1st in bWAR for pitchers, 5th in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 3rd in strikeouts.
In the AL in 2004, he didn't pitch enough innings to qualify.
In the AL in 2005, he didn't pitch enough innings to qualify for the lead in pitching stats, but was still 2nd in bWAR.
In the AL in 2006, 3rd in bWAR for pitchers, 2nd in ERA, and 2nd in WHIP.
In the AL in 2008, 2nd in bWAR for pitchers, 2nd in ERA, 1st in WHIP, 3rd in strikeouts.
In the AL in 2009, 2nd in bWAR for pitchers, 3rd in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 5th in strikeouts.
In the NL in 2010, 2nd in bWAR for pitchers, 3rd in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 2nd in strikeouts.
In the NL in 2011, 1st in bWAR for pitchers, 4th in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 3rd in strikeouts.

bWAR: 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st
ERA: 5th, 5th, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th.
WHIP: 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd.
Ks: 6th, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 2nd, 3rd.
Terrible

Zeitgeister · Post #30 » by **Zeitgeister** » Wed Aug 3, 2011 12:35 pm

Dirk_diggler_41 wrote:
Zeitgeister wrote:Never led the NL or AL in strikeouts, never led the NL or AL in ERA, never led the NL or AL in WHIP. He's a great pitcher.

Being near the lead almost every season should count for something?
Going by baseball reference,
In the AL in 2002, Halladay was 1st in bWAR for pitchers, 5th in ERA, 6th in strikeouts.
In the AL in 2003, 1st in bWAR for pitchers, 5th in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 3rd in strikeouts.
In the AL in 2004, he didn't pitch enough innings to qualify.
In the AL in 2005, he didn't pitch enough innings to qualify for the lead in pitching stats, but was still 2nd in bWAR.
In the AL in 2006, 3rd in bWAR for pitchers, 2nd in ERA, and 2nd in WHIP.
In the AL in 2008, 2nd in bWAR for pitchers, 2nd in ERA, 1st in WHIP, 3rd in strikeouts.
In the AL in 2009, 2nd in bWAR for pitchers, 3rd in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 5th in strikeouts.
In the NL in 2010, 2nd in bWAR for pitchers, 3rd in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 2nd in strikeouts.
In the NL in 2011, 1st in bWAR for pitchers, 4th in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 3rd in strikeouts.

bWAR: 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st
ERA: 5th, 5th, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th.
WHIP: 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd.
Ks: 6th, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 2nd, 3rd.
Terrible

No one said he was terrible, just that he's not "the best pitcher of the last decade by far". He's an elite pitcher, very good in many ways but I haven't seen the individual dominant seasons that I've seen from some other pitchers. He's sustained success for a long time which is great too, but it depends on where you put your value.

Post #31 » by **Duffman100** » Thu Aug 4, 2011 8:18 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:
Dirk_diggler_41 wrote:
Zeitgeister wrote:Never led the NL or AL in strikeouts, never led the NL or AL in ERA, never led the NL or AL in WHIP. He's a great pitcher.

Being near the lead almost every season should count for something?
Going by baseball reference,
In the AL in 2002, Halladay was 1st in bWAR for pitchers, 5th in ERA, 6th in strikeouts.
In the AL in 2003, 1st in bWAR for pitchers, 5th in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 3rd in strikeouts.
In the AL in 2004, he didn't pitch enough innings to qualify.
In the AL in 2005, he didn't pitch enough innings to qualify for the lead in pitching stats, but was still 2nd in bWAR.
In the AL in 2006, 3rd in bWAR for pitchers, 2nd in ERA, and 2nd in WHIP.
In the AL in 2008, 2nd in bWAR for pitchers, 2nd in ERA, 1st in WHIP, 3rd in strikeouts.
In the AL in 2009, 2nd in bWAR for pitchers, 3rd in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 5th in strikeouts.
In the NL in 2010, 2nd in bWAR for pitchers, 3rd in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 2nd in strikeouts.
In the NL in 2011, 1st in bWAR for pitchers, 4th in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 3rd in strikeouts.

bWAR: 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st
ERA: 5th, 5th, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th.
WHIP: 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd.
Ks: 6th, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 2nd, 3rd.
Terrible

No one said he was terrible, just that he's not "the best pitcher of the last decade by far". He's an elite pitcher, very good in many ways but I haven't seen the individual dominant seasons that I've seen from some other pitchers. He's sustained success for a long time which is great too, but it depends on where you put your value.

But whole thread is about the last ten years AS A WHOLE. Sure, other pitchers have outperformed him in individual years...but overall, over the past 10 years, as an entire tapestry of work, Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball. Hands down.

bigboy1234 · Post #32 » by **bigboy1234** » Sat Aug 6, 2011 6:15 am

One of only five other pitchers to put up six or more seasons of a 71 FIP- or better with 100 IP or more since 1940, others being:

Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Greg Maddux
Curt Schilling

lobosloboslobos · Post #33 » by **lobosloboslobos** » Tue Aug 9, 2011 11:30 pm

I was watching the Dodgers-Phillies game last night, in which he didn't pitch great but still only gave up 1 run and got the win. They flashed a stat onscreen that said he had won his last 23 starts in which he got 3+ run support. Now 24. That kind of consistency is just ridiculous.

number15 · Post #34 » by **number15** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:51 pm

People can argue who the best pitcher in baseball is today and they'd have an argument worth listening to........... but over the last decade, Halladay is the best, not too much of an argument

he didnt always finish at the top... but he was always right at the top end.

Would u rather have a a guy who dominates the HELL out of the MLB for 2-3 seasons and then slows down for the rest of the time..... or a guy who dominates and even though he isent TARING up the awards stats, still manages to do that for another decade to come, "consistantly".

Pharmcat · Post #35 » by **Pharmcat** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:54 am

im not taking anything away from him, he is great SP

but the NL is a joke, no dh, pitcher has to bat, and a lot of terrible teams in that league

High 5 · Post #36 » by **High 5** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:45 pm

The NL is real baseball. The AL is the WWE of baseball.

Post #37 » by **Duffman100** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:00 pm

Pharmcat wrote:im not taking anything away from him, he is great SP

but the NL is a joke, no dh, pitcher has to bat, and a lot of terrible teams in that league

But again, the majority of years in the past decade he pitched in the AL and dominated.

raptorforlife88 · Post #38 » by **raptorforlife88** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:44 pm

Pharmcat wrote:im not taking anything away from him, he is great SP

but the NL is a joke, no dh, pitcher has to bat, and a lot of terrible teams in that league

He won a CY Young in the AL. He was either the best or second best pitcher over the course of 8 years in that league. He's only been in the NL for the past 2 seasons. I don't see how this is even a point.

Parataxis · Post #39 » by **Parataxis** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:43 am

Duffman100 wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:im not taking anything away from him, he is great SP

but the NL is a joke, no dh, pitcher has to bat, and a lot of terrible teams in that league

But again, the majority of years in the past decade he pitched in the AL and dominated.

More to the point, he dominated in the AL East.

lobosloboslobos · Post #40 » by **lobosloboslobos** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:25 pm

On related note, Kershaw obviously wins the Cy Young this year but it is amazing to see how Halladay and Cliff Lee finish with such identical numbers as the 2&3 best pitchers in the NL this year. Check out their stats:

Roy Halladay
32 games started 233.2 innings pitched 61 earned runs 35 BB 220 Ks 1.04 WHIP 2.35 era

Cliff Lee
32 games started 232.2 innings pitched 62 earned runs 42 BB 238 Ks 1.03 WHIP 2.40 era

practically identical twins!