All-Time Underrated Hitters

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Post#21 » by OSBB » Tue Apr 3, 2007 6:16 pm

bigboy1234 wrote:
If you adjust for this

I don't really get what you mean by that, because I used the translated EQA's which showed Heilmann as a lot better hitter. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your saying or your adjusting in some other way, not sure.

And it kinda does matter what Cobb said, he's one of the greatest of all time, so his eye for talent, I'm guessing, is pretty sharp. Plus, he actually saw both play, lots of times, neither of us have seen Crawford or Heilmann play.

Eh, just because you see someone play doesn't mean that much. I'm sure there are tons of great players who misjudge players all the time. Not saying thats the case here but it could defintely be. Really there adjusted EQA's say more about there hitting than Cobb could really tell me.


I'm not very hip to stats like EQA but Bill James adjusted Sam Crawford's stats to make his first season 1919 instead of 1899 and did so each year subsequently throughout his career (ie 1901 = 1921). This way, it shows us approximately what his stats would have been if he hadn't played in the dead ball era.

And Cobb knew what he was talking, he loved talking baseball, he almost (or maybe actually did?) got into a fistfight with Ted Williams over a discussion about Rogers Hornsby. I'll take his word.
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Post#22 » by TyCobb » Tue Apr 3, 2007 6:19 pm

I'll go with Dick Allen.
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Post#23 » by Basketball Jesus » Tue Apr 3, 2007 6:21 pm

You like Dick.
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Post#24 » by TyCobb » Tue Apr 3, 2007 6:26 pm

A Global Moderator would hit on me.
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Post#25 » by bigboy1234 » Tue Apr 3, 2007 6:34 pm

OldSchoolBBall wrote:Hope I'm not coming off as a dick here. If so, I don't really mean to.

And Crawford v Heilmann is really close anyway. So, it's kinda subjective anyway.

Naw, your good. It's also quite fitting that Heilmann is the one that replaced Crawford. I would probably agree with you if were talking overall player as Crawford better, but I just love Heilmann as a hitter.
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Post#26 » by studcrackers » Tue Apr 3, 2007 8:24 pm

i think cobb's opinion is somewhat irrelevant.

ted williams was a top 3 hitter ever and yet when he tried to manage the texas rangers we had some of the worst hitting in the history of the league.
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Post#27 » by sunshinekids99 » Wed Apr 4, 2007 12:08 am

A couple guys jumped into my mind.

My present guy is Brian Giles. Well maybe not so much right now, but he was really a good hitter in his days. I'm shocked he's only been in the top 10 of MVP voting just once.

After seeing the HOF voting the other guy is Albert Belle. Sure he was an ass, but he was one of the best power hitters of the 90's. Belle got screwed out of a MVP award against Mo Vaughn. I still don't see how he's not a HOF player, but a guy like Kirby Puckett is in there.
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Post#28 » by studcrackers » Wed Apr 4, 2007 1:52 am

because puckett has the intangibles only matched by jeter and eckstein all while treating his wife like ****.
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Post#29 » by sunshinekids99 » Wed Apr 4, 2007 1:54 am

Well that explains it then. Thank you
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Post#30 » by Harry Palmer » Wed Apr 4, 2007 7:42 am

It's so hard to define what makes someone underrated.

I mean, by some definitions, Hank Aaron is a very underrated hitter. People know about the homers, but sort of chalk that up to a one skill longevity thing. He is also the all time RBI leader, a .305 career hitter and had 6 seasons of over 20 sbs.

Anyways, to go for some not mentioned, I'll do it by position:


c) Gary Carter. Has faded from the front pages, but the guy was .285-25 HRs-100 RBI.avg year guy for 7 or 8 seasons.

1b) Don Mattingly. Hate the Yanks, and rare to see one underrated, but for a 5 year stretch between '84-'89, he averaged (just rough guessing here) something like .330, 30 HRs, 110 RBI.

2b) I guess Davey Johnson gets enough love...maybe Robbie Alomar too. But people seem to have forgotten just how good Sandberg was.

3b) Buddy Bell. Not amazing, but for a third bagger not named Schmidt, damn good.

ss) Hmmm...Hube Brooks? All around, Tony Fernandez (who, before elbow accident, was a BETTER defensive shortstop than Ozzie, yeah, I said it.)

lf) Ralph Kiner. Guy was a stud, and no one mentions him.

cf) Dale Murphy. Might be THE forgotten sat or the 80's.

rf) Mel Ott. See Kiner. See stats.

dh) Paul Molitor was one of the best pure hitters I have ever seen.
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Post#31 » by Lane1974 » Wed Apr 4, 2007 4:12 pm

Hubie Brooks??? why not Dickie Thon?


how about Alan Trammell? Barry Larkin? as two shortstops that come to mind who are probably underrated
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Post#32 » by Harry Palmer » Wed Apr 4, 2007 4:28 pm

Lane1974 wrote:Hubie Brooks??? why not Dickie Thon?


how about Alan Trammell? Barry Larkin? as two shortstops that come to mind who are probably underrated


Thon, sure, but imo Trammell and Larkin get a fair amount of recognition.

If not, sure, add them...but imo they have always been in the discussions with Ripken, Yount, etc.
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Post#33 » by Basketball Jesus » Wed Apr 4, 2007 4:38 pm

Let
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Post#34 » by studcrackers » Wed Apr 4, 2007 4:40 pm

id like to know the answer
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Post#35 » by Harry Palmer » Wed Apr 4, 2007 4:46 pm

Basketball Jesus wrote:Let
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Post#36 » by bigboy1234 » Wed Apr 4, 2007 4:54 pm

Definitely isn't Joe Morgan, Morgan is a lot better than that.
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Post#37 » by Harry Palmer » Wed Apr 4, 2007 4:55 pm

bigboy1234 wrote:Definitely isn't Joe Morgan, Morgan is a lot better than that.


I'd assume so, but I thought I remembered Morgan being one of those guys EqA guys say was overrated.
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Post#38 » by bigboy1234 » Wed Apr 4, 2007 5:00 pm

Naw, if you went by just EQA Morgan would be the 2nd best 2nd basemen of all time, only behind Hornsby.

But I will say I have no idea who those players are, but there EQA's as 2nd basemen indicate both should easily be in the Hall.
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Post#39 » by studcrackers » Wed Apr 4, 2007 5:00 pm

player A is lou whitaker

player b isnt morgan his lifetime eqa is .313 im gonna guess ryne sandberg though his lifetime eqa is lower then .287

btw bbj when you mention a players EQA do you go by adjusted for season or for all time? b/c whitaker is .281 for season but .291 for all time. am i right?
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Post#40 » by bigboy1234 » Wed Apr 4, 2007 5:03 pm

Naw, it's not Lou either, his translated EQA is .290.

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