A Pitch Perfect Summary of the MLB Fan War
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:25 pm
This is a post from The Ruckus in that awful Cano-is-overrated thread (#498) that was almost entirely overlooked. And immediately after, everyone continued to do what he said they were doing, as if he hadn't just called everyone out. I think it is one of the most thoughtful posts I've ever read on this site, and very thread worthy.
"The thing is that there are some criticisms of SABR stuff that are perfectly valid. UZR isn't terribly useful in a single-season context, and even its utility over several seasons is a matter of debate. Given that it's a big component of fWAR, and rWAR often comes up with significantly different figures both for defense and overall, I can certainly understand a degree of skepticism. It's exacerbated by the fact that some people use advanced stats without context, common sense, or even knowing what the hell they're talking about, and act like WAR is infallible.
There's also the biggest misconception of all - that WAR is a direct reflection of skill, and a predictive stat. It is neither. Just because Howie Kendrick had a higher WAR last year than Albert Pujols doesn't mean Kendrick is a better player, now or in the future. Nobody with an iota of sense would actually argue that, but you get the idea.
But then you have the extreme traditionalists who just pull out crap like calling you a nerd who doesn't watch the game or whatever garbage line is popular that day, and claim that every person who uses newer metrics is a slave to them, like the extreme people I mentioned above.
Sometimes it's difficult to resist the urge to poke fun at people who, despite all evidence to the contrary, still treat things like RBI as a hugely important statistic. I have my moments with that, especially if I'm debating someone who trots out the usual "mom's basement" nonsense. Nobody's perfect. But in general, I try to avoid engaging those types and save my energy for anyone who is skeptical, yet open to learning more. It's not always easy to change your ideas about what is and isn't important, especially if you're being mocked and nobody's really explaining the reasons you should consider their view.
There are some people who will simply refuse to acknowledge that SABR stats are valuable. That's their prerogative. It's my prerogative as someone who believes that they are to argue in favor of them. But that doesn't give anyone license to be an insufferable, hardheaded prick about it, on either side.
Basically, as with most things, both sides are wrong in their own way, and the truth lies somewhere in the middle."
__________________
The quote that almost made PSD too dorky a place to visit, and he said it with conviction:
Green_Monster: I still have more knowledge then you!
"The thing is that there are some criticisms of SABR stuff that are perfectly valid. UZR isn't terribly useful in a single-season context, and even its utility over several seasons is a matter of debate. Given that it's a big component of fWAR, and rWAR often comes up with significantly different figures both for defense and overall, I can certainly understand a degree of skepticism. It's exacerbated by the fact that some people use advanced stats without context, common sense, or even knowing what the hell they're talking about, and act like WAR is infallible.
There's also the biggest misconception of all - that WAR is a direct reflection of skill, and a predictive stat. It is neither. Just because Howie Kendrick had a higher WAR last year than Albert Pujols doesn't mean Kendrick is a better player, now or in the future. Nobody with an iota of sense would actually argue that, but you get the idea.
But then you have the extreme traditionalists who just pull out crap like calling you a nerd who doesn't watch the game or whatever garbage line is popular that day, and claim that every person who uses newer metrics is a slave to them, like the extreme people I mentioned above.
Sometimes it's difficult to resist the urge to poke fun at people who, despite all evidence to the contrary, still treat things like RBI as a hugely important statistic. I have my moments with that, especially if I'm debating someone who trots out the usual "mom's basement" nonsense. Nobody's perfect. But in general, I try to avoid engaging those types and save my energy for anyone who is skeptical, yet open to learning more. It's not always easy to change your ideas about what is and isn't important, especially if you're being mocked and nobody's really explaining the reasons you should consider their view.
There are some people who will simply refuse to acknowledge that SABR stats are valuable. That's their prerogative. It's my prerogative as someone who believes that they are to argue in favor of them. But that doesn't give anyone license to be an insufferable, hardheaded prick about it, on either side.
Basically, as with most things, both sides are wrong in their own way, and the truth lies somewhere in the middle."
__________________
The quote that almost made PSD too dorky a place to visit, and he said it with conviction:
Green_Monster: I still have more knowledge then you!