OT: Trout or Cabrera..Who's the AL MVP?

[fresko024]

Trout had one of the best seasons ever as a rookie this year and is unarguably the Rookie of the Year. Miguel Cabrera won the first triple crown since 1967. Trout's Anaheim Angels didn't make the playoffs. Miguel Cabrera's Detroit Tigers won the Central Division. Let's look at the numbers..

Miguel Cabrera: .330/44 HR/ 139 RBI/ 4 stolen bases in 160 games played
Mike Trout: .324/ 30 HR/ 83 RBI/ 49 stolen bases in 138 games played

I cannot deny the fact that Trout is a tremendous talent but I say give the MVP to Miggy. His team made the playoffs and he made history with the first triple crown since 1967. Give the rookie the rookie of the year and MVP to the seasoned Vet and future hall of famer... thoughts?

[Knicksfan20]

Dumb question. Cabrera easily. He lead in all major offensive catagory's. Triple crown winner. NO question.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Winning the triple crown = automatic MVP

[KnicksManiac]

It is not a debate. Cabrera won the triple crown. He is the MVP.

And did this really need it's own thread when we already have a "OT: Miguel Cabrera wins MLB Triple Crown" thread?

[SelbyCobra]

Trout, and it's not close. That the voters are going to give it to Cabrera in a landslide shows the level of ignorance and flat-out stupidity in the baseball world.

Trout's season wasn't just the greatest season for a rookie ever, it was one of the 10-15 greatest all around seasons ANY baseball player has ever had.

[KnicksManiac]

By the way, if you google "Miguel Cabrera," the photo that comes up is his mugshot:

[mpharris36]

u win the triple crown and your team makes the playoffs you win the MVP....pretty simple end of story.

Trout had a fantastic season and would win the MVP in most years but two major things go against him. His team didn't make the playoffs and Cabrera did something that is almost impossible in todays day and age.

[Im Coming Home]

Wow.. I'm so glad I realized it was Melky who got the 50 game suspension and not Miguel.. I was sitting here like "Didn't he get caught with HGH, why is everyone praising him for getting the triple crown? " But now I can actually sit here and respect what Miguel has done.. truly amazing feat, he should win MVP because his team made the playoffs AND he won the triple crown, how is it even a discussion when Trout put up worse(but still impressive) numbers, and his team didn't make the playoffs?

[moocow007]

Trout, and it's not close. That the voters are going to give it to Cabrera in a landslide shows the level of ignorance and flat-out stupidity in the baseball world.

Trout's season wasn't just the greatest season for a rookie ever, it was one of the 10-15 greatest all around seasons ANY baseball player has ever had.

If Trout's season was one of the 10-15 greatest all around seasons ANY baseball player has ever had then does that mean Cabrera's is as well?

Aside from the usual triple crown categories here's some :

OBP
Cabrera - .393
Trout - .379

SLG
Cabrera - .606
Trout - .532

OPS
Cabrera - .999
Trout - .963

SO
Cabrera - 98
Trout - 169

BB
Cabrera - 66
Trout - 67

The only thing that Trout has shown he does CLEARLY better is stealing bases.

Trout is clearly the ROY (probably the best ROY in some time) and should be 2nd in MVP voting (though he likely should get some 1st place votes and deservedly so) but let's not get carried away with the 10-15 "greatest all around seasons ANY baseball player has ever had" (since then you should include Cabrera's season as well) or the "not even close" comment (it's more than close).

[mpharris36]

Trout, and it's not close. That the voters are going to give it to Cabrera in a landslide shows the level of ignorance and flat-out stupidity in the baseball world.

Trout's season wasn't just the greatest season for a rookie ever, it was one of the 10-15 greatest all around seasons ANY baseball player has ever had.

If Trout's season was one of the 10-15 greatest all around seasons ANY baseball player has ever had then does that mean Cabrera's is as well?

Aside from the usual triple crown categories here's some :

OBP
Cabrera - .393
Trout - .379

SLG
Cabrera - .606
Trout - .532

OPS
Cabrera - .999
Trout - .963

SO
Cabrera - 98
Trout - 169

BB
Cabrera - 66
Trout - 67

The only thing that Trout has shown he does CLEARLY better is stealing bases.

Trout is clearly the ROY (probably the best ROY in some time) and should be 2nd in MVP voting (though he likely should get some 1st place votes and deservedly so) but let's not get carried away with the 10-15 "greatest all around seasons ANY baseball player has ever had" (since then you should include Cabrera's season as well) or the "not even close" comment (it's more than close).

I agree mo. This is a great argument against the SABR metrics heads that think Miggy is just a better HR and RBI guy. The one this that will also help Trout is that his runs scored and Defense (which sometimes get over looked) is extroadinary.

Still, once miggy sewed up the Triple Crown it was game set match.

[Boik14]

Trout, and it's not close. That the voters are going to give it to Cabrera in a landslide shows the level of ignorance and flat-out stupidity in the baseball world.

Trout's season wasn't just the greatest season for a rookie ever, it was one of the 10-15 greatest all around seasons ANY baseball player has ever had.

Ding ding ding. 10.4 WAR > Triple Crown + 7.3 WAR.

And if Trout plays another 15-20 games God knows his pure numbers would have wrecked shop even more so then they already did. Very possibly could have had the first 320BA/125 run/35homer/50Steal EVER with a WAR over 11? Unheard of.

[Boik14]

Ill rephrase what I just said: In the last 50 years, only 3 hitters (Bonds 2x, Yaz in 67, and Joe Morgan in 75) have eclipsed the WAR Trout put up this season: http://www.baseball-reference.com/leade ... ason.shtml

If Trout plays another 15-20 games he might have actually passed Morgan and one of Bonds's seasons. Theres no way that Mike Trout should not win the MVP.

[Sark]

Trout, and it's not close. That the voters are going to give it to Cabrera in a landslide shows the level of ignorance and flat-out stupidity in the baseball world.

Trout's season wasn't just the greatest season for a rookie ever, it was one of the 10-15 greatest all around seasons ANY baseball player has ever had.

Ding ding ding. 10.4 WAR > Triple Crown + 7.3 WAR.

And if Trout plays another 15-20 games God knows his pure numbers would have wrecked shop even more so then they already did. Very possibly could have had the first 320BA/125 run/35homer/50Steal EVER with a WAR over 11? Unheard of.

Trout had a great May, and an unreal June & July. After that, his numbers started to decline as the league figured him out. The problem with WAR is it is all assumptive. No one hits a game winning WAR. It's a great stat for GMs and people who play fantasy baseball, but it tells nothing about actual production.

Cabrera's year >>> Trout's year by a country mile.

[SelbyCobra]

It's a great stat for GMs and people who play fantasy baseball, but it tells nothing about actual production.

This is literally the most wrong thing ever written on the internet. That's impressive.

[Boik14]

Trout, and it's not close. That the voters are going to give it to Cabrera in a landslide shows the level of ignorance and flat-out stupidity in the baseball world.

Trout's season wasn't just the greatest season for a rookie ever, it was one of the 10-15 greatest all around seasons ANY baseball player has ever had.

Ding ding ding. 10.4 WAR > Triple Crown + 7.3 WAR.

And if Trout plays another 15-20 games God knows his pure numbers would have wrecked shop even more so then they already did. Very possibly could have had the first 320BA/125 run/35homer/50Steal EVER with a WAR over 11? Unheard of.

Trout had a great May, and an unreal June & July. After that, his numbers started to decline as the league figured him out. The problem with WAR is it is all assumptive. No one hits a game winning WAR. It's a great stat for GMs and people who play fantasy baseball, but it tells nothing about actual production.

Cabrera's year >>> Trout's year by a country mile.[/quote]
Hard stats can be assumptive too. See how I prorated Trouts stats out to 160 games based on what he did in 138? The bigger problem with basic stats like homers/rbi is it only accounts for 1 type of player a power hitter. WAR may be assumptive but at least it factors in all aspects not just homers and rbi. Trout saves as many homers as he hits practically. How else do you account for that?

[Sark]

It's a great stat for GMs and people who play fantasy baseball, but it tells nothing about actual production.

This is literally the most wrong thing ever written on the internet. That's impressive.

Tell me how to calculate WAR, and what it shows. You can't even find a standardized definition of the stat.

[Boik14]

It's a great stat for GMs and people who play fantasy baseball, but it tells nothing about actual production.

This is literally the most wrong thing ever written on the internet. That's impressive.

Tell me how to calculate WAR, and what it shows. You can't even find a standardized definition of the stat.

Tell me a better way to assign values to players? Im open to ideas. Im not tied in to Sabermetrics, I actually hate them but right now they are the best way to do things.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Ill rephrase what I just said: In the last 50 years, only 3 hitters (Bonds 2x, Yaz in 67, and Joe Morgan in 75) have eclipsed the WAR Trout put up this season: http://www.baseball-reference.com/leade ... ason.shtml

If Trout plays another 15-20 games he might have actually passed Morgan and one of Bonds's seasons. Theres no way that Mike Trout should not win the MVP.

Nobody has won the triple crown in 45 years and only 2 in the last 50+ years

[Boik14]

Ill rephrase what I just said: In the last 50 years, only 3 hitters (Bonds 2x, Yaz in 67, and Joe Morgan in 75) have eclipsed the WAR Trout put up this season: http://www.baseball-reference.com/leade ... ason.shtml

If Trout plays another 15-20 games he might have actually passed Morgan and one of Bonds's seasons. Theres no way that Mike Trout should not win the MVP.

Nobody has won the triple crown in 45 years and only 2 in the last 50+ years

And no one, not Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Mickey Mantle, Barry Bonds has EVER done what Mike Trout did. First ever 320/125runs/25 homer/40 steal season from a guy who saves as many homers as he hits?

Explain to me again how someone who is only 7.3 games better then his replacement is > someone who is 10.4 games better then his replacement?

[Deeeez Knicks]

Ill rephrase what I just said: In the last 50 years, only 3 hitters (Bonds 2x, Yaz in 67, and Joe Morgan in 75) have eclipsed the WAR Trout put up this season: http://www.baseball-reference.com/leade ... ason.shtml

If Trout plays another 15-20 games he might have actually passed Morgan and one of Bonds's seasons. Theres no way that Mike Trout should not win the MVP.

Nobody has won the triple crown in 45 years and only 2 in the last 50+ years

And no one, not Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Mickey Mantle, Barry Bonds has EVER done what Mike Trout did. First ever 320/125runs/25 homer/40 steal season from a guy who saves as many homers as he hits?

Explain to me again how someone who is only 7.3 games better then his replacement is > someone who is 10.4 games better then his replacement?

Because WAR is overrated. See Ben Zobrist who had the best WAR in the AL last year

He had a great season, but have to give it to the triple crown winner on the better team.