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The Mets are selling high on R.A. Dickey after the 38-year-old knuckleballer's Cy Young season. They have agreed in principle to a trade that will send Dickey to the Blue Jays, Ken Rosenthal reports (on Twitter). The deal is contingent on Toronto being able to work out a contract extension with Dickey and they'll have a negotiating window of 72 hours, expiring Tuesday at 2pm ET.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/t ... ickey.html

Rumoured deal is the following:

METS: Travis D'Arnaud, Noah Syndegaard, John Buck, and a random prospect

JAYS: Dickey, Thole, random prospect

i'm expecting the jays to get hate for this deal.

i mean this board hates giving up studs for top of the rotation pitchers.

It's a lot different, because Dickey is better than Shields and the Jays are actual contenders now.

GYBE wrote:It's a lot different, because Dickey is better than Shields and the Jays are actual contenders now.

how?
he's a pitcher who was lucky and able to reinvent himself by throwing in the never ending abyss called Citi Field.

2012
Shields FIP - 3.47
Sheild xFIP - 3.25
WAR 4.3

Dickey FIP - 3.27
Dickey xFIP - 3.27
WAR - 4.6

2011
Shields FIP - 3.42
Shields xFIP - 3.25
WAR 4.9

Dickey FIP - 3.77
Dickey xFIP - 3.95
2.5

an award doesn't make u better than other players.

Apparently the prospects have been named.

Dickey, Thole, Nickeas to the Jays

d'Arnaud, Syndergaard, Buck & Wuilmer Becerra.

Mets apparently went for the better prospect (Becerra) over cash for Uncle Buck's contract.


Thole's numbers were hurt last year following his concussion but he's got an OK bat for a catcher and he's a lefty, plus he works well with Dickey, catching him in the minors as well as the majors.

Nickeas hits like a pitcher but pitchers apparently like working with him. If he could hit is weight he'd be a solid backup catcher, but that's the problem. He sucks at hitting though he seemed oddly adept at getting hits with guys on base. Go figure.

Quake Griffin wrote:how?
he's a pitcher who was lucky and able to reinvent himself by throwing in the never ending abyss called Citi Field.

Okay. Tampa plays in a pitcher's park too. With a better defensive team.

Read this article, you might see why FIP and WAR underrate Dickey. Those stats treat all contact the same, when obviously knuckleballers induce more weak contact than the average pitcher.

By FIP, Dickey has been worth +10 WAR over the last three years. By runs allowed, he’s been worth +15 WAR.

Losing D'Arnaud hurts, a lot.

But it's nice that we actually have a shot to make some noise this season, what a fun offseason

Josh Johnson
Mark Buerhle
Jose Reyes
Melky Cabrera
R.A. Dickey

Hot damn.

The Jays brought in a lot of high priced players, but I'm not willing to say they are the favorites in the East. I'm not a huge fan or Reyes, Buerhle, or Dickey. Josh Johnson if healthy should be fine. I think a great signing of Melky tho. A lot depends on what Reyes they are getting, if he's back to his Mets days then yeah they could be a force.

sunshinekids99 wrote:The Jays brought in a lot of high priced players, but I'm not willing to say they are the favorites in the East. I'm not a huge fan or Reyes, Buerhle, or Dickey. Josh Johnson if healthy should be fine. I think a great signing of Melky tho. A lot depends on what Reyes they are getting, if he's back to his Mets days then yeah they could be a force.

The Reyes of last season was still a top 5 short stop and a 4 WAR player. If they get that, then they are more than fine.

It's fine if you're not a fan of Dickey, but the guy has been as good as David Price the last 3 seasons. Buehrle isn't that good but he's given 200 innings for the last decade and has really mastered his way of pitching.

I'm not sure there's any other team in the AL East that has a better team on paper. Of course there are no guarantees. But the Yankees are old and hurt and really don't scare anyone. The Red Sox spent a lot of money on mediocre to bad players to fill holes. They gave Dempster a bigger contract than Dickey after he flopped in the AL West. Dempster in the AL East should be interesting (and not a good kind of interesting). The Red Sox are still probably the worst team in the division.

The Orioles had the most luck filled season I've seen in ANY sport. And I watch a lot of different sports. The team made no significant additions to an offense that desperetely needed to improve.

That brings us to Tampa Bay, who is really the only other team you can tag as favourites. Their pitching is still very strong and should carry them. Myers, if he's as good as advertised, should help out the offense as well. And Yunel Escobar was a fantastic addition. Still, a lot will depend on how much offense they can generate.

Also, it's kind of ironic when you say high priced, when only Reyes and Buehrle are "overpaid". Johnson is on the last year of his deal and Dickey and Melky were signed to great contracts considering what other FAs got (see Dempster, Victorino, etc.).

Blue Jays are this year's Marlins. They won't finish higher than 3rd place. Guaranteed.

GYBE wrote:

Quake Griffin wrote:how?
he's a pitcher who was lucky and able to reinvent himself by throwing in the never ending abyss called Citi Field.

Okay. Tampa plays in a pitcher's park too. With a better defensive team.

Read this article, you might see why FIP and WAR underrate Dickey. Those stats treat all contact the same, when obviously knuckleballers induce more weak contact than the average pitcher.

By FIP, Dickey has been worth +10 WAR over the last three years. By runs allowed, he’s been worth +15 WAR.

good article.
consider me learned.

i still don't trust dickey....but we'll see.

sunshinekids99 wrote:The Jays brought in a lot of high priced players, but I'm not willing to say they are the favorites in the East. I'm not a huge fan or Reyes, Buerhle, or Dickey. Josh Johnson if healthy should be fine. I think a great signing of Melky tho. A lot depends on what Reyes they are getting, if he's back to his Mets days then yeah they could be a force.

u don't remember B. Morrow before the freak injury?

JJ n Morrow alone are going to be good.

Wondering if Dickey can hack it in the AL East and if Ricky Romero will return to form are good problems to have at this point imo.

mets made out like bandits

'i like it for the jays, they are going for it, and i commend them for it

I don’t really see how this move is even all that debatable from the Blue Jays perspective. Yes it sucks to give up your two best (or two of three best) prospects in a single trade for a single pitcher. But if you’re going to do it, you might as well do it for a premium, ace-level pitcher. Plus, I think both TDA and Syndegaard have less value to the Jays than to a team like the Mets. Even if both those guys pan out (hardly a sure bet, especially when one of them is a pitcher in A ball), it’d probably be two or three years before they’re producing star level results for Toronto. At that point you’re looking at the existing core pushing into their mid-30s. To say nothing of the fact that both the Yankees and Red Sox will probably have reloaded by then (especially with the Yankees being out of the period where they’re cutting payroll to get under the luxury tax). And that’s to say nothing about any improvements by the Rays and Orioles. If think the division is winnable, and you’re not satisfied with another year of being the best team in baseball not to make the playoffs like Jays teams of the recent past, it doesn’t make a ton of sense to half-ass it and only kind of commit to going after the divison. If you’re going to take your shot, it’s way better to push all your chips into the table and build a team that can not only get in the playoffs, but make some noise once you’re in there. I’m pretty sure I’d happily trade any prospect for the chance to experience a World Series run. Isn’t that the goal of accumulating prospects and players in general?

Higga wrote:Blue Jays are this year's Marlins. They won't finish higher than 3rd place. Guaranteed.

Literally. Plus the Jays of last year + Melky and Dickey.

Higga wrote:Blue Jays are this year's Marlins. They won't finish higher than 3rd place. Guaranteed.

Except they are the Marlins+ Bautista, Encarnacion, Lawrie, Cabrera, Dickey, Rasmus, Morrow, etc...

Mad-Eye Moody wrote:

sunshinekids99 wrote:The Jays brought in a lot of high priced players, but I'm not willing to say they are the favorites in the East. I'm not a huge fan or Reyes, Buerhle, or Dickey. Josh Johnson if healthy should be fine. I think a great signing of Melky tho. A lot depends on what Reyes they are getting, if he's back to his Mets days then yeah they could be a force.

The Reyes of last season was still a top 5 short stop and a 4 WAR player. If they get that, then they are more than fine.

It's fine if you're not a fan of Dickey, but the guy has been as good as David Price the last 3 seasons. Buehrle isn't that good but he's given 200 innings for the last decade and has really mastered his way of pitching.

I'm not sure there's any other team in the AL East that has a better team on paper. Of course there are no guarantees. But the Yankees are old and hurt and really don't scare anyone. The Red Sox spent a lot of money on mediocre to bad players to fill holes. They gave Dempster a bigger contract than Dickey after he flopped in the AL West. Dempster in the AL East should be interesting (and not a good kind of interesting). The Red Sox are still probably the worst team in the division.

The Orioles had the most luck filled season I've seen in ANY sport. And I watch a lot of different sports. The team made no significant additions to an offense that desperetely needed to improve.

That brings us to Tampa Bay, who is really the only other team you can tag as favourites. Their pitching is still very strong and should carry them. Myers, if he's as good as advertised, should help out the offense as well. And Yunel Escobar was a fantastic addition. Still, a lot will depend on how much offense they can generate.

Also, it's kind of ironic when you say high priced, when only Reyes and Buehrle are "overpaid". Johnson is on the last year of his deal and Dickey and Melky were signed to great contracts considering what other FAs got (see Dempster, Victorino, etc.).

If Reyes puts up the same numbers that he put up last year he’s overpaid and that money could have very well been put in other places. If you can get one of his 06,08, 11 years then he’ll be the leadoff guy that they need.

As for Dickey you can say the last three years he’s been as good as David Price all you want, but the NL East is not the AL East. This was a guy that was horrendous in the AL, now maybe he’s figured it out, but I’ll believe when I see it.

Josh Johnson has a power arm, so I think he’ll be a good fit in the AL. If he can stay healthy he’ll do well as a 2/3 in the rotation.

Buehrle has mastered his way of pitching; I didn’t know you could be a master of mediocrity. I’d rather have 170 great innings then 200 innings of him.

As for Baltimore they won on timely hitting and a dominate pen. If they can get that from the pen again they will be at the top of the East. I would have liked to see them get a bat, even a LaRoche would help.

The Yankees are on the verge of having a very bad year. Maybe they can hold it together for one more year, but they have to start getting some youth into that lineup. I also think that outfield is going to suffer and they will miss Swisher.

Tampa Bay is going to be near the top again. Getting a full season from Longoria will be huge. They would be my pick to win the East at the moment.

Now to the Red Sox, I’m with you they look like the bottom team again. This is their famous “bridge season”. Really the only signing that I’m confused about is Dempster, I don’t think he’s an upgrade over Franklyn Morales.

The Blue Jays very well could win the AL East, my main point was that’s it’s not a forgone conclusion.

sunshinekids99 wrote:
If Reyes puts up the same numbers that he put up last year he’s overpaid and that money could have very well been put in other places. If you can get one of his 06,08, 11 years then he’ll be the leadoff guy that they need.

Again, despite Reyes' "down year" it was still very good. He was 4th in the league in WAR and was also good defensively. He's also only 2 years removed from winning the batting title. The Jays added the NL Batting champs of the past 2 years in Reyes and Melky to their lineup. They also added the reigning NL Cy Young winner on top of Johnson and Buehrle.

As for Dickey you can say the last three years he’s been as good as David Price all you want, but the NL East is not the AL East. This was a guy that was horrendous in the AL, now maybe he’s figured it out, but I’ll believe when I see it.

Do you know anything about Dickey? It makes no sense to look at his numbers before 2010. That's when he picked up the knuckleball, exclusively. That's also when his results completely changed and he became one of the best pitchers in baseball. The offense wasn't really an issue for the Jays. It was their pitching and the starting rotation in particular. Romero was trash last season and Brandon Morrow was injured for 2 months. They just added Dickey, Johnson and Buehrle.

Buehrle has mastered his way of pitching; I didn’t know you could be a master of mediocrity. I’d rather have 170 great innings then 200 innings of him.

Clearly, the guy is doing something right. He's had an ERA under 4 the last 6 seasons and has pitched 200 innings for the past 12. But lets ignore results and call him mediocre.

As for Baltimore they won on timely hitting and a dominate pen. If they can get that from the pen again they will be at the top of the East. I would have liked to see them get a bat, even a LaRoche would help.

When in MLB history have you ever seen a team with a negative run differential make the playoffs? Never. The Orioles had the luckiest season in sports and that's exactly what "timely hitting" means. There is very little reason to believe they'll replicate that, especially when they made no improvements to the offense.

Tampa Bay is going to be near the top again. Getting a full season from Longoria will be huge. They would be my pick to win the East at the moment.

I agree with that. Tampa Bay is the only other team in the division that looks like a serious contender. They've got great pitching and have made improvements to the offense (Escobar, Myers, full season of Longo).

Now to the Red Sox, I’m with you they look like the bottom team again. This is their famous “bridge season”. Really the only signing that I’m confused about is Dempster, I don’t think he’s an upgrade over Franklyn Morales.

You're not confused about giving 45 million to a mediocre and declining Shane Victorino? The Blue Jays gave RA Dickey and Melky Cabrera less combined, and both are coming off all-star seasons.

The Blue Jays very well could win the AL East, my main point was that’s it’s not a forgone conclusion.

Absolutely, but your logic is very twisted.

I believe my logic is twisted because I don't completely agree with you.

I'm not going to comment on everything because really it will just be beating a dead horse. As for Dickey I know he's changed his pitching since leaving the AL. He might do great in the AL, but I expect those numbers to go up. I don't see him in David Price area next year. One thing I will say on the Blue Jays they did a great job bringing in a catcher than knows him in that deal.

Melky Cabrera I think is a great risk signing, but lets not be throwing this batting champ crap around either. Let's see how he does this season now that he's been caught. I think he'll be a good player for the Jays, but he's not going to touch what he did in San Fran.

For this season Buehrle is a good pitcher at 11 million, the problem is he's paid 19 in 2014 and 20 in 2015. He's just not that type of pitcher. On a good team he's a 4th starter.

Baltimore yes they were lucky last season. But the fact remains if that pen can do what it did last year they are going to be in the hunt. Add to that Machado going into his first full season, a healthy season from Nick Markakis, and if they do sign a power bat or trade for one (Morse perhaps).

To my team the Boston Red Sox. First off I like adding Victorino. He's an energy guy, great clubhouse guy, which can play right field in a very tough park. Now I'll easily admit that contract is a joke for the production that he had. I'm just hoping he can bounce back to something that resembles what he did with the Phillies.

This could be a coupe or an absolute disaster. Dickey went nuts this past season as a old knuckleballer thrower, Tim Wakefield was always under appreciated, as a third starter, Expecting Dickey to be the ace of your staff at the wrong side of 30 is crazy. I'm not sure he can ever live up to that money.