Rick Ankiel recieved HGH in 2004

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Post#21 » by meatball sub » Fri Sep 7, 2007 4:27 pm

Also adding to what I posted earlier...I personally believe the group that says HGH helps athletes, especially those that play baseball and football. There are many benefits according to various things I've read about it since HGH became a popular topic and they include a few that would specifically help athletes:

1. create new muscle cells that would help increase muscle mass.

2. make their bones stronger

3. help muscle recovery which would help while training in the offseason and alsoduring a grueling season in which their muscles become fatigued.

4. reduce body fat

All of those things can help an athlete become faster and stronger, but HGH in alot of cases has been taken by athletes as an aid to recover from an injury because of the said benefits. I know the Cardinal fans are probably bringing the point up that HGH may not help at all to defend Ankiel, but if somebody looks at it objectively they'll realize this shouldn't diminish what he's done this season. I don't see how this tarnishes ANYTHING he's done in the minors or in the show since the headline doesn't say "Ankiel tests positive for banned substance, suspended 50 games."

Ankiel, from what the report says, stopped recieving/taking it as MLB banned the substance so to me that says Ankiel stopped recieving/taking it because it was deemed illegal. That says to me he wasn't trying to cheat. Obviously nobody knows the whole story, but it appears once HGH was banned he stopped using it which IMO makes it fine with me.
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Post#22 » by mizzoupacers » Fri Sep 7, 2007 4:27 pm

34Celtic wrote:Well this is part of a bigger story. I guess his doctor placed phony prescribtions to a number of athletes. Rodney Harrison is also involved, as is the Steelers trainer and Cowboys QB coach. I could be wrong but from what I've heard they are all part of the same sting.


The Daily News story doesn't say this. It says only that other doctors and other clinics accused of illegal activities have ordered drugs through the same pharmacy that sent Ankiel his HGH shipment. And that this pharmacy (Signature) is involved in the football stuff with Harrison et al.

Ankiel received a prescription from a Dr. William Gogan through the THARC clinic. The story does not say that Gogan or THARC are connected to Harrison, or even that they have been accused of anything illegal. Granted, though, that it would be helpful to find out more about THARC and Gogan.

Here's the relevant passage from the Daily News story:

THARC was not one of the anti-aging clinics busted by Albany, but Signature's owners are under indictment. Prosecutors have said clinics similar to THARC paid physicians to sign prescriptions for clients they never saw--a violation of New York and Florida law--which were then filled at Signature and other pharmacies and shipped to clients.
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Post#23 » by mizzoupacers » Fri Sep 7, 2007 4:39 pm

bove310 wrote:Also adding to what I posted earlier...I personally believe the group that says HGH helps athletes, especially those that play baseball and football. There are many benefits according to various things I've read about it since HGH became a popular topic and they include a few that would specifically help athletes:

1. create new muscle cells that would help increase muscle mass.

2. make their bones stronger

3. help muscle recovery which would help while training in the offseason and alsoduring a grueling season in which their muscles become fatigued.

4. reduce body fat

All of those things can help an athlete become faster and stronger, but HGH in alot of cases has been taken by athletes as an aid to recover from an injury because of the said benefits. I know the Cardinal fans are probably bringing the point up that HGH may not help at all to defend Ankiel, but if somebody looks at it objectively they'll realize this shouldn't diminish what he's done this season. I don't see how this tarnishes ANYTHING he's done in the minors or in the show since the headline doesn't say "Ankiel tests positive for banned substance, suspended 50 games."

Ankiel, from what the report says, stopped recieving/taking it as MLB banned the substance so to me that says Ankiel stopped recieving/taking it because it was deemed illegal. That says to me he wasn't trying to cheat. Obviously nobody knows the whole story, but it appears once HGH was banned he stopped using it which IMO makes it fine with me.


I don't really disagree with you, I'm just saying that while HGH COULD help athletic performance, it's not very conclusive yet. There have barely been any studies on the older adults that HGH is normally prescribed for, let alone studies on the effects for athletes in their 20s and 30s. Read this advisory from the Mayo Clinic, especially the section "What can human growth hormone do for healthy older adults who don't need it?" and you'll see what I'm getting at in saying it's not all that clear whether HGH is all that helpful to athletes.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/growth-hormone/HA00030

To me, it's sort of a side issue anyway. The real question is whether HGH poses serious long-term health risks. If so, then HGH should be banned. If not, then there is no point in a ban. (To me, it sounds like the long-term consequences for young adults are largely unknown, which makes me think that MLB should probably err on the side of caution.)
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Post#24 » by bigboy1234 » Fri Sep 7, 2007 4:52 pm

But most clinical studies suggest that HGH won't help an athlete at all. The other key difference is that while steroids cause a bevy of nasty side effects
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Post#25 » by 34Celtic » Fri Sep 7, 2007 5:22 pm

bigboy1234 wrote:
Really though, I just want Ankiel to come out and talk about it, or else it's going to make him look even worse. Also, it would be nice if people knew the difference between steriods and growth hormone because it's a pretty big difference.


I just want him to come out and admit using it if he did. If there is one thing that irks me about this whole stuff is guys say "no thats a lie," or "no my teammate told me to take it and i would test clean"

Not saying that either of those apply here but in general
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Post#26 » by SportsWorld » Fri Sep 7, 2007 8:30 pm

Just because Ankiel stopped receiving them a few years ago doesn't mean he stopped using. He could have received boxes full of HGH back in 2004.
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Post#27 » by OzzyAZ » Fri Sep 7, 2007 9:56 pm

Wow, wtf. Bonds uses HGH before its banned and he's the antichrist, but when Ankiel does it "it's okay, it wasn't illegal then", "it's okay, it helps athletes grow muscle", "oh he was just coming off of surgery." I could have sworn the whole problem with HGH/steroid use in MLB was that it gives players a unfair advantage thus tainting the game, and idolizes dangerous drugs making kids think its okay to use them. HGH is illegal and gives you an unfair advantage. Ankiel is no different than Bonds and the rest.
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Post#28 » by Basketball Jesus » Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:01 pm

Bonds allegedly took HGH? I thought it was THG, a steroid.
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Post#29 » by OzzyAZ » Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:08 pm

Basketball Jesus wrote:Bonds allegedly took HGH? I thought it was THG, a steroid.


People assume he took hgh in addition to anabolic steroids due to his ever-growing skull and other bone mass.
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Post#30 » by Basketball Jesus » Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:14 pm

OzzyAZ wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



People assume he took hgh in addition to anabolic steroids due to his ever-growing skull and other bone mass.


A-yuh, there's your problem.
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Post#31 » by OzzyAZ » Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:19 pm

Basketball Jesus wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



A-yuh, there's your problem.


I understand what you're saying, but I don't see how using (at least) one illegal performance enhancing drug gives you more crediblity than using multiple ones.
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Post#32 » by Black Jesus 1 » Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:21 pm

He's still a stud.
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Post#33 » by bigboy1234 » Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:27 pm

OzzyAZ wrote:but I don't see how using (at least) one illegal performance enhancing drug gives you more crediblity than using multiple ones.

What was that? Because as far as I'm concerned HGH wasn't illegal in 2004 and has never been proven to be performance enhancing.
SportsWorld wrote:Just because Ankiel stopped receiving them a few years ago doesn't mean he stopped using. He could have received boxes full of HGH back in 2004.

Or we could say just because he recieved them doesn't mean he took them. It's fun saying stuff like that isn't it?
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Post#34 » by Scrub Sura » Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:33 pm

Black Jesus 1 wrote:He's still a stud.


Not to me...I don't swing that way

But seriously...was anyone really that surprised?

Especially in this day and age and with the way Larussa's teams seem to be filled with illegal performance enhancers and substance abusers. Including himself..

What's funny is to hear Cardinals fans on StLouisPostDispatch try and make excuses at every turn.

Though, they seem to be used to it with McSteroid :rofl:
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Post#35 » by Black Jesus 1 » Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:04 pm

Scrub Sura wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Not to me...I don't swing that way

:eyebrows:
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Post#36 » by SportsWorld » Sat Sep 8, 2007 4:50 am

Funny, La Russa is always around steroid users.
Ankiel, McGwire, Canseco
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Post#37 » by bigboy1234 » Sat Sep 8, 2007 5:20 am

SportsWorld wrote:Funny, La Russa is always around steroid users.
Ankiel, McGwire, Canseco

WTF, do you have any idea what you're talking about?
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Post#38 » by SportsWorld » Sat Sep 8, 2007 6:29 am

From today's ESPN chat.
Remember 28 hours ago when ESPN loved Ankiel
Seth (Chicago): You knew this was coming... What should us Cardinal fans think about the Ankiel story? We don't want to cheer for a guy using PED's but we also really want to believe in this guy. What's your take? Thanks for taking the ?

Jayson Stark: (1:14 PM ET ) I can't believe it took three questions in to get to this. I have a lot of thoughts on this topic. And this is a tough forum to get to them all. But if you read the Daily News story, the evidence seemclear that Ankiel did order these drugs. The newspaper said it saw the order forms. And this is the same place where Rodney Harrison of the Patriots admitted to getting his HGH. So unfortunately, there does seem to be concrete evidence. This is not a situation where someone is conjecturing about what somebody might have done, based on how he changed in appearance or how his numbers changed. So that part is disturbing. It certainly punctures a hole in this guy's fairy tale. And suddenly, one of the best feel-good stories in sports doesn't feel so good.


Grant (NYC: Punctures a hole? Come on! It was a legal prescription when there was no ban. This is a non-story!

Jayson Stark: (1:21 PM ET ) It's a non-story? How is it a non-story? I suggest you read it more carefully. It's NOT legal to get a prescription for HGH if you're not a patient of the doctor. And there has to be a specific medical purpose for a specific malady. The story quotes Gary Wadler of WADA saying there are very few legitimate medical reasons a healthy athlete in his 20s would need a prescription for HGH. And if this had taken place after 2005, I have no doubt that baseball would suspend him, much as the NFL did with Rodney Harrison. Now if you want to get into the inconsistency between how people react to a baseball player and a football player essentially being accused of the same offense, I'd be more sympathetic. But I completely disagree that it's a non-story.
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Post#39 » by bigboy1234 » Sat Sep 8, 2007 5:12 pm

Remember when you just said Ankiel took steroids? When did HGH become anything like steroids?

And I'm pretty sure he was prescribed it by his doctor, although I'm not 100% sure on that.

It's NOT legal to get a prescription for HGH if you're not a patient of the doctor.

It may not be legal in the US, but baseball had no rule on it in 2004 and like I already said I'm pretty sure it was his doctor, so that statement pretty much doesn't matter, but there is the chance I'm wrong about that.
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Post#40 » by Fatty » Sat Sep 8, 2007 8:55 pm

Worm Guts wrote:What happens when people realize taking HGH supplements helps you live a longer, healthier life? Will athletes be allowed to use it then?
Does HGH have any side effects? I am interested in this

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