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sabathia has been great but not the best in the AL

I'd say these four have been better:
Dan Haren OAK
Kelvim Escobar LAA
Johan Santana MIN
Erik Bedard BAL

I would currently give it to CC, although I think Bedard has pitched better this year, it's just that CC has pitched in 38 more innings which is a good amount.

santana. he's given up something like 40 fewer hits than IP, has over 200 K, and has the lowest WHIP among starters. just because his record is 15-11 doesn't mean he hasn't pitched very well. steve trachsel won 15 games last year with a 4.97 ERA. shows you the value of looking at wins, doesn't it?

Who has used wins to judge a player? You act like any of us care about pitcher wins.

Beckett is gonna win it. Most wins on the best record team in baseball. Suckas.

I'd definitely give it to Sabathia, though. Look at all those innings. He's on pace for 240 innings of 3.15 ERA ball.

bigboy1234 wrote:Who has used wins to judge a player? You act like any of us care about pitcher wins.

the people who vote for the cy young (the ones whose opinion unfortunately matters) take wins into account. that point wasn't directed at anyone in particular, it's just annoying when i read stuff about pitchers and people go **** over wins. /rant

mets87 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


the people who vote for the cy young (the ones whose opinion unfortunately matters) take wins into account. that point wasn't directed at anyone in particular, it's just annoying when i read stuff about pitchers and people go **** over wins. /rant

and why shouldnt wins be taken into account?

obviously they arent the best statistic to show how good a pitcher is but it shouldnt be dismisssed.

and why shouldnt wins be taken into account?

obviously they arent the best statistic to show how good a pitcher is but it shouldnt be dismisssed.

Because the pitcher has absolutely no control over how many runs the team scores for him. Verlander gets 7.53 runs a game while Rich Hill only 3.24, I guess thats pretty fair. Hell I'd rather use QS% over W-L.

Bleeding Green wrote:Beckett is gonna win it. Most wins on the best record team in baseball. Suckas.

Put your mod status on it, Sucka.

No.

Bleeding Green wrote:No.

bigboy1234 wrote:

and why shouldnt wins be taken into account?

obviously they arent the best statistic to show how good a pitcher is but it shouldnt be dismisssed.

Because the pitcher has absolutely no control over how many runs the team scores for him. Verlander gets 7.53 runs a game while Rich Hill only 3.24, I guess thats pretty fair. Hell I'd rather use QS% over W-L.

if wins werent of any importance then guys like ted lyons and red ruffing shouldnt be in the hall of fame and any starter with a sub 3 era should be submitted in the hof i guess.

like i said is not the best stat to guage a pitcher but it should not be dismissed during voting and if that were the case, why even have wins for a pitcher.

rick astley will get a cy young vote by steve philips.

if wins werent of any importance then guys like ted lyons and red ruffing shouldnt be in the hall of fame and any starter with a sub 3 era should be submitted in the hof i guess.

Theres a ton of players who don't belong in the HOF, thats a whole nother debate. Well a sub 3 ERA is pretty hard to comeback so by todays standards so sure, why not. But I don't use ERA like it's the end all be all, although it's a ton more important than pitcher wins.

like i said is not the best stat to guage a pitcher but it should not be dismissed during voting and if that were the case, why even have wins for a pitcher.

Because it's traditition, just like RBI. Why have goalie wins, in hockey who knows, but I bet it won't change because it's been around so long so it's just accepted.

bigboy1234 wrote:

if wins werent of any importance then guys like ted lyons and red ruffing shouldnt be in the hall of fame and any starter with a sub 3 era should be submitted in the hof i guess.

Theres a ton of players who don't belong in the HOF, thats a whole nother debate. Well a sub 3 ERA is pretty hard to comeback so by todays standards so sure, why not. But I don't use ERA like it's the end all be all, although it's a ton more important than pitcher wins.

like i said is not the best stat to guage a pitcher but it should not be dismissed during voting and if that were the case, why even have wins for a pitcher.

Because it's traditition, just like RBI. Why have goalie wins, in hockey who knows, but I bet it won't change because it's been around so long so it's just accepted.

point taken but wins shouldnt be dismissed.

Sabathia has outpitched Santana head to head several times this season. For that matter, so has Carmona.

If it weren't for terrible run support he'd already be over 20 wins

That doesn't mean anything. The Indians have an infinitely better offense than the Twins.

There are quite a few teams with better offenses than the Indians, but only one that Santana has gone 0-5 against.