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Tanking, a word pretty much reserved for basketball never happens in baseball, or does it? Having watched the absolute pathetic performance of the Arizona Diamondbacks this weekend in Seattle my guess is it's alive and well. Bryce Harper to the Dbacks in next years draft? Let the tanking begin.

If they're tanking, they're doing a pretty bad job since right now they wouldn't have a top 2 pick.

And of course there's tanking in baseball? Why would you think otherwise? If you're out of it, let all of your young September callups play at the end of the season and trade your soon to be free agents away for prospects at the deadline.

No point in trying to win games when there's no chance of making the playoffs.

The Pirates have been tanking for 16 years.

The Nationals are running away with the worst record this year. The next closest team is Cleveland who is 7 games behind.

seattle must suck at tanking or else strasburg would be all theres

Da Schwab wrote:The Pirates have been tanking for 16 years.

The Pirates are the perfect example of why outright tanking doesn't happen in MLB. They suck so much year in and year out that their ownership isn't willing to fork out the money for the best talent in the draft, and instead take cheap, guaranteed mediocrities like Bryan Bullington first overall (in a top-10 that featured BJ Upton, Zack Greinke, Prince Fielder, Jeff Francis...). So they continue to suck, and teams that sucked but weren't necessarily at the very bottom of the league (like the Tigers) get top-of-the-draft talent without needed to outsuck the competition.

studcrackers wrote:seattle must suck at tanking or else strasburg would be all theres

I loved Riggelman's (Ms coach) comments recently about not knowing there was a stud player out there when they approached the last 3 games of the 08 season. It isnt his call to pitch the waterboy in those last 3 but his lack of knowledge is reason enough to be glad to see him gone.

Schadenfreude wrote:

Da Schwab wrote:The Pirates have been tanking for 16 years.

The Pirates are the perfect example of why outright tanking doesn't happen in MLB. They suck so much year in and year out that their ownership isn't willing to fork out the money for the best talent in the draft, and instead take cheap, guaranteed mediocrities like Bryan Bullington first overall (in a top-10 that featured BJ Upton, Zack Greinke, Prince Fielder, Jeff Francis...). So they continue to suck, and teams that sucked but weren't necessarily at the very bottom of the league (like the Tigers) get top-of-the-draft talent without needed to outsuck the competition.

The Pirates are no where near the perfect example. Teams tank so they can GET the best talent. The Pirates sucked for the past 16 years because the ownership wasn't willing to pay for that top talent. If anything, the Pirates are the opposite of a team trying to tank.

Anyway, hopefully all of this Pirates tanking for the past 16 years will end shortly. McCutchen is a beast and Alverez should be with the team next year. Andy Larouche is starting to come around, Charlie Morton looked good in his first start, Duke is back to his rookie season form, Maholm will pull through his slump right now, Jose Tabata is playing well right now, Brad Lincoln is starting to pitch like a 1st rounder. The Pirates are starting to get actual talent now thanks to a competent GM and an owner willing to pay.

timd1218 wrote:

Schadenfreude wrote:

Da Schwab wrote:The Pirates have been tanking for 16 years.

The Pirates are the perfect example of why outright tanking doesn't happen in MLB. They suck so much year in and year out that their ownership isn't willing to fork out the money for the best talent in the draft, and instead take cheap, guaranteed mediocrities like Bryan Bullington first overall (in a top-10 that featured BJ Upton, Zack Greinke, Prince Fielder, Jeff Francis...). So they continue to suck, and teams that sucked but weren't necessarily at the very bottom of the league (like the Tigers) get top-of-the-draft talent without needed to outsuck the competition.

The Pirates are no where near the perfect example. Teams tank so they can GET the best talent. The Pirates sucked for the past 16 years because the ownership wasn't willing to pay for that top talent. If anything, the Pirates are the opposite of a team trying to tank.

That's exactly what I said.

Schadenfreude wrote:
The Pirates are no where near the perfect example. Teams tank so they can GET the best talent. The Pirates sucked for the past 16 years because the ownership wasn't willing to pay for that top talent. If anything, the Pirates are the opposite of a team trying to tank.

That's exactly what I said.[/quote]

You said the Pirates are the perfect example of why teams don't outright tank in the MLB.

He's saying you can get good players in the draft without finishing in the bottom half of the league. Because of teams like the Pirates who do finish in the bottom half and don't take the best players for salary reasons.

Stanford wrote:He's saying you can get good players in the draft without finishing in the bottom half of the league. Because of teams like the Pirates who do finish in the bottom half and don't take the best players for salary reasons.

Exactly. There isn't the same incentive to tank in baseball, because a) there are far fewer 'sure things' worth losing millions of dollars in revenue while tanking, b) one player can't turn a franchise around; you need at least 10 good players on a roster to succeed, c) the league-wide disparity in budget/willingness to go above slot ensures that talented players slip every year.

When I say that the Pirates are the perfect example of why teams don't tank, I mean that their lack of success has created a feedback loop, whereby poor revenues leave them financially constrained and unable to make the best use out of their high draft position, thus negating the only benefit of sucking. It would take an owner with exceptionally deep pockets and a willingness to run a horrific product on to the field for half a decade to make tanking worthwhile, and even then the odds of building a contender in that manner are still extremely slim.

Schadenfreude wrote:

Stanford wrote:He's saying you can get good players in the draft without finishing in the bottom half of the league. Because of teams like the Pirates who do finish in the bottom half and don't take the best players for salary reasons.

Exactly. There isn't the same incentive to tank in baseball, because a) there are far fewer 'sure things' worth losing millions of dollars in revenue while tanking, b) one player can't turn a franchise around; you need at least 10 good players on a roster to succeed, c) the league-wide disparity in budget/willingness to go above slot ensures that talented players slip every year.

When I say that the Pirates are the perfect example of why teams don't tank, I mean that their lack of success has created a feedback loop, whereby poor revenues leave them financially constrained and unable to make the best use out of their high draft position, thus negating the only benefit of sucking. It would take an owner with exceptionally deep pockets and a willingness to run a horrific product on to the field for half a decade to make tanking worthwhile, and even then the odds of building a contender in that manner are still extremely slim.

Oh ok. Just a misunderstanding on my part.