Peyton Manning is the GOAT

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Re: Peyton Manning is the GOAT 

Post#81 » by Elway=GOAT » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:44 am

Zeitgeister wrote:Hmm, lets look at the plethora of first round picks that the Indianapolis Colts drafted as receivers since Peyton Manning came into the league.

2001 - Reggie Wayne, 30th pick in the draft
2007 - Anthony Gonzalez, 32nd pick in the draft

There you have it! Wow, I can't believe that the Colts have been using all of their first round picks on receivers! Keep in mind, these are late in the first round too. Neither of those guys were freaks in college. They have used high picks on defense in the past few years, but some of those players have had injury issues.



Yet they were both first round picks.

Harrison came into the league a first round pick, the year before..followed by Wayne, Gonzo who even the great Peyton Manning cant even make look good, and they also have another Reciever at tight end who was a first round pick. He came into the league for his first year with Marshal Faulk then he had Edge another first round pick now addai. So basically he has been blanketed by first round talent at his core positions on offense his entire career. It gets even more intresting if you look at rounds 1-3.

Now my question is, since no Colts fan/Manning pudits can seem to answer, why waste these picks on talent if he can just make anyone look good? Its a legit question.. What I find funny is all these people say these players are only good because of Manning even though most of the offensive stars if not all have been high round picks. But now they are making excuses on why his play has been so bad recently. Its because all the injurys.

But the question then is.. If these guys are only good because of Manning why would it make a difference if they are injured or not, dosent he have the power to make anyone good? You cant have it both ways. Now I wont argu that Mannings team has been decimated, but I will argu you have seen a clear drop off in his play, especially the last two weeks against decent defenses. Which is a direct contraidiction of what people have been saying about him his entire career.
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Re: Peyton Manning is the GOAT 

Post#82 » by Elway=GOAT » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:53 am

Here is another inresting stat I have come across.

Coming into this week...

Tom Brady (outdoors career)= 93.06 rating. (4055 attempts)
Tom Brady (indoors career)= 99.13 rating. (400 attempts)
Tom Brady (total career)= 93.61 rating.

Peyton Manning (outdoors career)= 90.65 rating (3422 attempts)
Peyton Manning (indoors career)= 99.77 rating (3460 attempts)
Peyton Manning (total career)= 95.24 rating

Brady with equal opportunity

Peyton Manning has passed 3460 of his 6882 attempts in a dome (50.27%).
Let’s see where Brady would stand if given that same chance.
Brady has 4455 career attempts.
50.27% of that is 2239 attempts.
Here are Tom Brady’s numbers with 2239 indoor attempts and 2216 outdoor attempts.

Outdoor (before adjustment)= 2558-4055, 29265, 214, 90
Outdoor (after adjustment)= 1398-2216, 15993, 117, 49
Indoor (before adjustment)= 267-400, 3277, 25, 13
Indoor (after adjustment)= 1494-2239, 18343, 140, 73

Adjusted Numbers= 2892-4455, 34336, 257, 122
Quarterback Rating= 96.1

That 96.1 rating would be higher than the 95.2 rating Manning has for his career.

Manning with equal opportunity

Tom Brady has passed 4055 of his 4455 attempts (91%) outdoors.
Let’s adjust Manning’s numbers to if he played like Brady does.

Manning with 9% indoors and 91% outdoors.
Indoors (before)= 2259-3460, 27324, 219, 89
Indoors (after)= 405-620, 4896, 39, 16
Outdoors (before)= 2201-3422, 25282, 163, 96
Outdoors (after)= 4004-6262, 46264, 298, 175

Adjusted Numbers= 4409-6882, 51160, 337, 191
Quarterback Rating= 91.2

Also keep in mind, Manning has had it easiser with much much better offensive talent surrounding him for most of his career.

When you add the fact that one is a career choke artist and the other is a career Michael Jordan type clutch, this issue should really be a no brainer. Manning isnt even the best of his generation, and Brady is not as good as Elway or Montana. So that puts Manning at atleast 4 without including unitas or Otto.
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Re: Peyton Manning is the GOAT 

Post#83 » by Zeitgeister » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:25 pm

Elway=GOAT wrote:
Zeitgeister wrote:Hmm, lets look at the plethora of first round picks that the Indianapolis Colts drafted as receivers since Peyton Manning came into the league.

2001 - Reggie Wayne, 30th pick in the draft
2007 - Anthony Gonzalez, 32nd pick in the draft

There you have it! Wow, I can't believe that the Colts have been using all of their first round picks on receivers! Keep in mind, these are late in the first round too. Neither of those guys were freaks in college. They have used high picks on defense in the past few years, but some of those players have had injury issues.



Yet they were both first round picks.

Harrison came into the league a first round pick, the year before..followed by Wayne, Gonzo who even the great Peyton Manning cant even make look good, and they also have another Reciever at tight end who was a first round pick. He came into the league for his first year with Marshal Faulk then he had Edge another first round pick now addai. So basically he has been blanketed by first round talent at his core positions on offense his entire career. It gets even more intresting if you look at rounds 1-3.

Now my question is, since no Colts fan/Manning pudits can seem to answer, why waste these picks on talent if he can just make anyone look good? Its a legit question.. What I find funny is all these people say these players are only good because of Manning even though most of the offensive stars if not all have been high round picks. But now they are making excuses on why his play has been so bad recently. Its because all the injurys.

But the question then is.. If these guys are only good because of Manning why would it make a difference if they are injured or not, dosent he have the power to make anyone good? You cant have it both ways. Now I wont argu that Mannings team has been decimated, but I will argu you have seen a clear drop off in his play, especially the last two weeks against decent defenses. Which is a direct contraidiction of what people have been saying about him his entire career.


Yep, and none of those guys were ever as good as Randy Moss and by many marks Tom Brady still didn't surpass Manning's greatest season even by running up the score and bottom feeder teams. Tom Brady was hurt, and replaced by a career backup and he stepped right in and played quite well himself.

Some of the guys you mentioned were acquired before Manning joined the team so its just a tad preposterous that you would use that as proof that the team is trying to build around Peyton because he can't make anyone look good. Football is a friggin team game. Something that you Superbowl wins pundits never seem to get. You fail to mention the great defense that was the CORE of those New England teams, or the epic field goals by Adam Viniteri to put them in a position to win or win games. It's just "Tom Brady has more Superbowl wins, he's better". Weren't you one of the guys that was saying Ben Rothlisberger is better than Manning?

Manning had some very good offensive talent around him, there's no denying that. He's also the captain of that offense, that offense goes as Peyton Manning goes. People who say that Peyton Manning is the reason why any of his receivers etc. are great are wrong, he helps them become great. There is no doubt they wouldn't be as good with even an average QB. But Peyton Manning isn't going to play as well with below average receivers either, that is obvious.
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Re: Peyton Manning is the GOAT 

Post#84 » by Elway=GOAT » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:13 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:Yep, and none of those guys were ever as good as Randy Moss and by many marks Tom Brady still didn't surpass Manning's greatest season even by running up the score and bottom feeder teams. Tom Brady was hurt, and replaced by a career backup and he stepped right in and played quite well himself.

Some of the guys you mentioned were acquired before Manning joined the team so its just a tad preposterous that you would use that as proof that the team is trying to build around Peyton because he can't make anyone look good. Football is a friggin team game. Something that you Superbowl wins pundits never seem to get. You fail to mention the great defense that was the CORE of those New England teams, or the epic field goals by Adam Viniteri to put them in a position to win or win games. It's just "Tom Brady has more Superbowl wins, he's better". Weren't you one of the guys that was saying Ben Rothlisberger is better than Manning?


Did you even read the post I posted a couple days ago, that broke down by numbers and events on why Manning is the lesser of the 2? It actually explained how bad Manning really is at choking. His 1 flaw, and probably the worst flaw a qb can have, hes a choker.

Read that post and please explain to me how you can say with a straight face he is better than Brady, much less the GOAT.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2010/10/30/17 ... on-manning

As the writer of the story says..

I will be able to show the TRUTH to everybody. Choosing to not accept the truth shows a problem with that person, not the evidence.
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Re: Peyton Manning is the GOAT 

Post#85 » by Elway=GOAT » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:19 pm

By the way,

Brady: 1265 atm 854 comp 10115 yards 87 td's 23 int QB rating of 107.0

Manning: 1895 atm 1272 comp 14458 104 td's 44 ints's QB rating of 98.4

That is Bradys numbers since aquiring Moss. Untill the time he left compared to Mannings. That includes missing an entire season.

Also under the Pats they missed the playoffs without Brady, and Cassell when healthy is a pretty decent starter. No btw, I would never take Big Ben over Manning. Manning is a top 3 QB in the league, why the hell would I take Big Ben? He deserved his first superbowl even less than Manning deserves his. They both played awful in their first superbowls.
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Re: Peyton Manning is the GOAT 

Post#86 » by Bleeding Blue » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:05 pm

Mannings numbers are a little off considering he started his first NFL season and threw a ton of picks and had a ton of losses where Brady held a clipboard and the opportunity to learn for an entire year before he started. If you took out that year his stats would be different.
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Re: Peyton Manning is the GOAT 

Post#87 » by JustAwesome » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:41 am

The reason why I believe that Manning is the greatest QB of my lifetime has nothing to do with numbers. While they are impressive, I'm more impressed with his grasp of the game. He just simply sees something entirely different than most QBs.
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Re: Peyton Manning is the GOAT 

Post#88 » by Elway=GOAT » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:54 am

JustAwesome wrote:The reason why I believe that Manning is the greatest QB of my lifetime has nothing to do with numbers. While they are impressive, I'm more impressed with his grasp of the game. He just simply sees something entirely different than most QBs.


Why does his grasp change in January? While I agree he is a brillian QB.. I see him as no different than Brady in terms of grasping the plays or the game. He is just allowed to free lance more with his play calling, and I would bet BB would not allow him to do that if he played in New England.

While its awsome that a player can mostly call his own plays, it is good to take that away from him, especially if a player is prone to make terrible decisions with his play calling when the team needs him the most(like this past superbowl, calling 8 straight pass plays from the shotgun with 5 mintues to go, and your running game has been effective, which led to a pick 6.).

An intresting stat about the pick 6 in superbowls, teams who throw a pick 6 are 0-9 in the superbowl.

I am just tired of people shoving Manning down everyones throat, and people buying into it. Yeah hes amazing in october, yeah he is animated at the line of scrimage and he may or may not be changing the plays. But noone can explain to me, why this GOAT, this master of the game saves his worst for the playoffs.

As the stats show, its not just the defense. Sure he could of had better defense, but the offensive and particularly Manning have played bad in the playoffs. He had a nice run this past year, untill he pulled his inner manning choking power, and decided to piss the superbowl away.
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Re: Peyton Manning is the GOAT 

Post#89 » by Elway=GOAT » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:58 am

Bleeding Blue wrote:Mannings numbers are a little off considering he started his first NFL season and threw a ton of picks and had a ton of losses where Brady held a clipboard and the opportunity to learn for an entire year before he started. If you took out that year his stats would be different.


Are you refering to the numbers above? Thats not including his rookie year, that is Manning and Brady since 2007 thru week 4 of this year. When Brady finally had comparable offensive talent to Manning.

Or are you refering the TD/INT ratio. Brady is better in both the postseason and the regular season. You would think, that if Manning was the goat and the clear cut best of his generation he would of caught Brady by now, as long as both have been playing.

Brady also has the better TD/INT ratio this year, very slightly. He has 17 td's to 4 picks while Manning has 16 td's to 4 picks. Its there though.

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