2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
Moderator: bwgood77
2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
- Rich Rane
- Senior Mod - Nets
- Posts: 36,948
- And1: 15,615
- Joined: Jun 29, 2005
-
2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
Curtis Martin, Chris Doleman, Cortez Kennedy, Willie Roaf, Dermontti Dawson, and Jack Butler will be inducted into the NFL Hall Of Fame on August 4th.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/75408 ... fame-class
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/75408 ... fame-class
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
- Da Schwab
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 33,823
- And1: 3,619
- Joined: Apr 19, 2005
- Location: Somewhere in the between.
- Contact:
-
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
While I believe the people who were elected are very deserving, I truly believe the following are tremendous snubs:
Cris Carter... again
Kevin Greene
Tim Brown
Bill Parcells (seriously... WTF?)
Will Shields (if Roaf got in, I don't understand him missing it)
Cris Carter... again
Kevin Greene
Tim Brown
Bill Parcells (seriously... WTF?)
Will Shields (if Roaf got in, I don't understand him missing it)
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
-
- Forum Mod
- Posts: 52,226
- And1: 6,100
- Joined: Oct 31, 2004
- Location: Getting hit in the head
-
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
this was shields 1st time, that's why he missed, it was stupid roaf missed last year anyways
also charles haley should be in the hall, parcells is overrated as hell and i pray jerome bettis never sniffs the hall
im not even completely convinced martin deserved it
also it's a shame a guy like darren woodson will never get the recognition he deserves
also charles haley should be in the hall, parcells is overrated as hell and i pray jerome bettis never sniffs the hall
im not even completely convinced martin deserved it
also it's a shame a guy like darren woodson will never get the recognition he deserves
Jugs wrote: I saw two buttholes
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
- Da Schwab
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 33,823
- And1: 3,619
- Joined: Apr 19, 2005
- Location: Somewhere in the between.
- Contact:
-
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
Not sure Curtis Martin deserved it? He was a work horse from the start of his career. Ten consecutive 1000-yd seasons, 119 straight starts, over 300 carries in eight of his 11 seasons. And, he had a perfect passer rating.
If any one, particular person deserved this, it was Curtis Martin.
If any one, particular person deserved this, it was Curtis Martin.
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
-
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 53,597
- And1: 8,077
- Joined: Jan 13, 2005
- Location: TD Garden
-
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
Da Schwab wrote:Not sure Curtis Martin deserved it? He was a work horse from the start of his career. Ten consecutive 1000-yd seasons, 119 straight starts, over 300 carries in eight of his 11 seasons. And, he had a perfect passer rating.
If any one, particular person deserved this, it was Curtis Martin.
Yeah, this. Couldn't have answered it better.
Good for Martin, Roaf and the rest. Parcells should make it next year.
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
-
- NFL Analyst
- Posts: 16,964
- And1: 129
- Joined: Apr 30, 2001
- Location: Back in the 616
- Contact:
-
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
Martin stands out as the one guy I could definitely omit in favor of others. Had his best year as a rookie and then after his second season was simply a volume guy, not an overly effective one other than his truly awesome late-career hiccup with the Jets (2004?). He was the Cedric Benson of his era, reliably churning out exactly 4 yards per carry on 16-24 carries a game every week. Had he played in Cleveland or K-ansas City he wouldn't have made it but playing for Parcells (rightly left out) in New England and New York elevated his profile.
I would have put Haley in over him. Carter, Brown and Reed too for that matter. I thought they got the senior committe one wrong too, I would have put in Stanfel.
I think every guy who missed the cut this year will eventually get in. I'll even begrudge Parcells to get in based on his Giants tenure. The rest of his coaching career he was Jim Mora Sr. but what he did with the Giants cannot be ignored.
I would have put Haley in over him. Carter, Brown and Reed too for that matter. I thought they got the senior committe one wrong too, I would have put in Stanfel.
I think every guy who missed the cut this year will eventually get in. I'll even begrudge Parcells to get in based on his Giants tenure. The rest of his coaching career he was Jim Mora Sr. but what he did with the Giants cannot be ignored.
It's not whether you win or lose, it's how good you look playing the game
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 18,037
- And1: 4,468
- Joined: Mar 14, 2002
- Location: HOME OF THE 17 TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS!
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
no bill parcells? thats a joke.
Home of the 17 Time World Champions
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
- DJhitek
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 19,778
- And1: 1,354
- Joined: Jul 12, 2004
- Location: Berto Center
-
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
I never have any beefs with any finalists who don't make it because getting that far in this process reminds you of the merit of each players career. They alll deserve it....
That said, this automatic qualifier if you have 100 sacks is a bit skewed and Doleman wasn't even the best D/L on his own team. Aldon Smith can carve out a HOF career as a situtional pass rusher which again, is a bit skewed. Chris Carter should be in, stats and performance prove he should be. I'm not all that certain individuals like Hines Ward or Andre Reed will ever get in if Chris Carter can't.
That said, this automatic qualifier if you have 100 sacks is a bit skewed and Doleman wasn't even the best D/L on his own team. Aldon Smith can carve out a HOF career as a situtional pass rusher which again, is a bit skewed. Chris Carter should be in, stats and performance prove he should be. I'm not all that certain individuals like Hines Ward or Andre Reed will ever get in if Chris Carter can't.
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
-
- Forum Mod - Timberwolves
- Posts: 27,332
- And1: 12,189
- Joined: Dec 27, 2003
-
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
It's kind of crazy that Carter still didn't make the Hall. He had best hands in the history of the NFL and the stats to back him up. I'm confused about what's keeping him out. Even if I'm biased as a Viking fan, I think he was more deserving than either Doleman or Randle who have made the Hall since Carter has been eligible.
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
-
- NFL Analyst
- Posts: 16,964
- And1: 129
- Joined: Apr 30, 2001
- Location: Back in the 616
- Contact:
-
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
Worm Guts wrote:It's kind of crazy that Carter still didn't make the Hall. He had best hands in the history of the NFL and the stats to back him up. I'm confused about what's keeping him out. Even if I'm biased as a Viking fan, I think he was more deserving than either Doleman or Randle who have made the Hall since Carter has been eligible.
I heard two things from a radio interview with one of the voters (Richard Justice):
1. Carter is personally disliked by many people in the room. He treated reporters like crap most of his career and they're punishing him for it. Same x2 for Charles Haley, who is apparently still a dick to pretty much everyone.
2. Many in the room cling to a notion of 70s and 80s football where running is more important than passing. The monster passing numbers of the 90s and now bother these fogies and they don't have the ability to put them into context. Blame Mouse Davis and the run-n-shoot even though none of the 3 WR finalists played in that system longer than one season.
I totally agree with you on Carter. When draft evaluators grade wideouts, to this day the gold standard of hands and the ability to catch on the sidelines is still Cris Carter.
It's not whether you win or lose, it's how good you look playing the game
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 18,037
- And1: 4,468
- Joined: Mar 14, 2002
- Location: HOME OF THE 17 TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS!
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
Icness wrote:Same x2 for Charles Haley, who is apparently still a dick to pretty much everyone.
some buddies of mine who played for the 49ers would tell me some stories of Haley almost getting into fights with players on a bus ride. due to his mouthing off to fellow players. now he wasnt a cancer persay, but there are players who do have a mouth, that when run amuck at times, do irk their fellow players as well.
Home of the 17 Time World Champions
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
-
- Rookie
- Posts: 1,134
- And1: 228
- Joined: Jan 08, 2006
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
Worm Guts wrote:It's kind of crazy that Carter still didn't make the Hall. He had best hands in the history of the NFL and the stats to back him up. I'm confused about what's keeping him out. Even if I'm biased as a Viking fan, I think he was more deserving than either Doleman or Randle who have made the Hall since Carter has been eligible.
There's just so much difficulty in separating statistical production from context at the WR slot. Much more so than you find at QB or RB.
Outside of Rice, and probably Moss and Owens (who were just physically imposing and could dictate the game to a greater extent when their head and heart where into it), rate the following WRs: Bruce, Brown, Harrison, Carter, Ellard, Lofton, Holt, Reed, Wayne, J Smith, Irvin, Largent, Ochocinco, Irvin, Monk, etc. Some were #2s for more of their career. Some had more team success than others. Some had better QBs or played in more favorable systems. Some were short yardage guys. Some were deep ball threats. Some burned really brightly for a few huge years before regressing. Some were really consistent.
I think Carter needs to be in. He's absolutely in the top half of the players listed and very likely in the top third. At the "unskilled" positions, they seem to revert to team success, all-pro/pro bowl selections with a bit of a contextual adjustment. At receiving positions, it sees to be almost all contextual adjustment and none of the voters seem to agree on what that adjustment should look like.
It seems like that unless you played in 3 or 4 Super Bowls, or you happen to be a white receiver with a notable streak/NFL record, you're not getting into the HOF.
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
-
- Forum Mod
- Posts: 52,226
- And1: 6,100
- Joined: Oct 31, 2004
- Location: Getting hit in the head
-
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
so does anyone think tom coughlins a hall of famer?
Jugs wrote: I saw two buttholes
2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
-
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 53,597
- And1: 8,077
- Joined: Jan 13, 2005
- Location: TD Garden
-
2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
studcrackers wrote:so does anyone think tom coughlins a hall of famer?
not if parcells isn't in.
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
-
- NFL Analyst
- Posts: 16,964
- And1: 129
- Joined: Apr 30, 2001
- Location: Back in the 616
- Contact:
-
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
Coughlin:
16 seasons, 142 wins, .555 win percentage, 12-7 playoff record, 2 Super Bowl wins, 7 division titles, 7 seasons of 10+ wins
Parcells: 22 seasons, 172 wins, .570 win percentage, 11-8 playoff record, 2 Super Bowl wins, 8 division titles, 9 seasons of 10+ wins
Coughlin has a better playoff record, the Super Bowls are equal though Parcells did get to another (with NE). Coughlin is one behind in division titles and two behind in 10+ win seasons but Parcells coached 6 more years. Coughlin has two last place division finishes (both in JAX including the franchise's first year which was his first HC gig), Parcells has 4 including his first season with the Giants.
Honestly I don't see a lot of difference. The Giants team that Coughlin took over was in worse shape than the one Parcells took over (4-12 vs. 4-5 in the strike year). People talk about how great Parcells was at fixing bad teams (notably the Jets, who went from a 1-15 disaster to 9-7 in his first year), but Coughlin deserves just as much credit IMO for taking an expansion franchise to the playoffs 4 years in a row after the first year, winning 4 playoff games in those four years. Parcells didn't win four playoff games total after leaving the Giants in 11 seasons.
Just for comparison sake, I present another coach that almost nobody would consider a Hall of Famer:
21 seasons coached, 157 wins, .569 win percentage, 8-5 playoff record, 2 Super Bowl wins, 4 division titles, 7 seasons of 10+ wins, 2 last place division seasons.
Ladies and gentlemen, Mike Shanahan.
Hopefully all that puts Parcells in a little more context.
16 seasons, 142 wins, .555 win percentage, 12-7 playoff record, 2 Super Bowl wins, 7 division titles, 7 seasons of 10+ wins
Parcells: 22 seasons, 172 wins, .570 win percentage, 11-8 playoff record, 2 Super Bowl wins, 8 division titles, 9 seasons of 10+ wins
Coughlin has a better playoff record, the Super Bowls are equal though Parcells did get to another (with NE). Coughlin is one behind in division titles and two behind in 10+ win seasons but Parcells coached 6 more years. Coughlin has two last place division finishes (both in JAX including the franchise's first year which was his first HC gig), Parcells has 4 including his first season with the Giants.
Honestly I don't see a lot of difference. The Giants team that Coughlin took over was in worse shape than the one Parcells took over (4-12 vs. 4-5 in the strike year). People talk about how great Parcells was at fixing bad teams (notably the Jets, who went from a 1-15 disaster to 9-7 in his first year), but Coughlin deserves just as much credit IMO for taking an expansion franchise to the playoffs 4 years in a row after the first year, winning 4 playoff games in those four years. Parcells didn't win four playoff games total after leaving the Giants in 11 seasons.
Just for comparison sake, I present another coach that almost nobody would consider a Hall of Famer:
21 seasons coached, 157 wins, .569 win percentage, 8-5 playoff record, 2 Super Bowl wins, 4 division titles, 7 seasons of 10+ wins, 2 last place division seasons.
Ladies and gentlemen, Mike Shanahan.
Hopefully all that puts Parcells in a little more context.
It's not whether you win or lose, it's how good you look playing the game
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
-
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 53,597
- And1: 8,077
- Joined: Jan 13, 2005
- Location: TD Garden
-
Re: 2012 NFL Hall Of Fame Class Announced
It's a great post, but if Parcells isn't in then Coughlin won't get in was all I was saying. I just don't see how any voter would put a Parcells disciple over Parcells when they have similar records.
Unless coughlin wins another or maybe a few more NFC championships or something, which would put him over tuna. But I answered studs question as if he retired today.
I'm on the boat where I think ALL these three guys you stated should get in BTW. There are only 13 coaches with 2 or more superbowl wins in the history of the NFL. I feel like 2 SB wins as a coach with a good resume should put you in automatically. So while I can see Jimmy Johnson and Tom Flores being left out, I think Shanny, Tuna and Coughlin who are yards ahead of those two coaches in wins deserve to be in.
Unless coughlin wins another or maybe a few more NFC championships or something, which would put him over tuna. But I answered studs question as if he retired today.
I'm on the boat where I think ALL these three guys you stated should get in BTW. There are only 13 coaches with 2 or more superbowl wins in the history of the NFL. I feel like 2 SB wins as a coach with a good resume should put you in automatically. So while I can see Jimmy Johnson and Tom Flores being left out, I think Shanny, Tuna and Coughlin who are yards ahead of those two coaches in wins deserve to be in.
Return to The General NFL Board